2 Problems for new Yoder Wichita owner

[CptKaos]

Hahaha, you guys are funny

Larry

[slamkeys]

Originally Posted by kboy24

My firebox door is much lower and wider on the bottom opening where you can see they were addressing an issue maybe quietly but it was a design change.

Sounds like a Horizon. Are you sure you bought a Yoder? Maybe Yoder punted and made a deal with Horizon to send them the smokers without the nameplates so Yoder can rivet their own nameplates on them once they arrive at their shop ...

[Bryan58]

I received my Cheyenne today. When I ordered on 8/30, I was really excited to get this smoker. My excitement turned into regret and fearing what I got myself in to. I'm glad to report that my Cheyenne works as advertised. I followed Chef Tom's fire management video and had no issues with white smoke. While I was seasoning, I got the smoker to 325 on the firebox side and 285 on the stack side, grate level, and was able to set the firebox damper to 1/3 open and the stack to half open and the fire kept rolling and the temps stayed steady with thin blue smoke. The only caveat, like Chef Tom, I was using kiln dried wood. I did have the heat management plate installed.
The damper is lowered, as pictured below. Still the same damper size from what I can tell.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8X...ew?usp=sharing

[slamkeys]

Originally Posted by Bryan58

I received my Cheyenne today. When I ordered on 8/30, I was really excited to get this smoker. My excitement turned into regret and fearing what I got myself in to. I'm glad to report that my Cheyenne works as advertised. I followed Chef Tom's fire management video and had no issues with white smoke. While I was seasoning, I got the smoker to 325 on the firebox side and 285 on the stack side, grate level, and was able to set the firebox damper to 1/3 open and the stack to half open and the fire kept rolling and the temps stayed steady with thin blue smoke. The only caveat, like Chef Tom, I was using kiln dried wood. I did have the heat management plate installed.
The damper is lowered, as pictured below. Still the same damper size from what I can tell.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8X...ew?usp=sharing

That's great news. I can't tell from the photo, but does it look like they lowered the firebox at all?

[Bryan58]

Originally Posted by slamkeys

That's great news. I can't tell from the photo, but does it look like they lowered the firebox at all?

I don't think so. There may be about an inch of the damper that is above the opening of the main chamber. I did see some smoke coming out of the top of the damper.

[slamkeys]

Originally Posted by Bryan58

I don't think so. There may be about an inch of the damper that is above the opening of the main chamber. I did see some smoke coming out of the top of the damper.

I'm still puzzled about the height of the firebox because that makes a huge impact on the ability to open up the passageway into the cooker.

Take a look at this Horizon 20" model. Since the firebox is mounted below the cooking grate in the main chamber, the net height of the ash deflector and convection plate combined is minimal, resulting in enough headroom even above the top of the side door to allow you to open the door without heat pouring out of it. This design just looks right to me.



When the firebox is mounted above the main cooking grate, as Yoder has done, it requires the ash deflector and convection plate to extend much lower in order to get the convection plate far enough under the cooking grate to prevent excessive radiant heat there. This is what has happened to the Yoder design, resulting in the 6 1/2" barrier on my Wichita. This is also what is preventing me from trying to imitate the Horizon convection plate system with another modification. If I were to shrink the lip on the heat management plate to reduce the blockage into the cooking chamber, and then weld some horizontal rails for it to slide on, then the heat management plate would probably end up directly below the main cooking grate. Then I'd have to move the main cooking grate up about 3-4 inches to get it away from the radiant heat from the heat management plate. It's a pickle.

[Bryan58]

Yea, I agree that they should do something about the firebox. Or at least raise up the heat management plate and the grate to reduce that blockage. I wonder if that would actually decrease the temperature variance from left to right, without having as much heat trapped there.

[slamkeys]

I'm still baffled (no pun intended) by the Yoder design. What logic dictates that the firebox be mounted above the cooking surface? It's probably not an issue if you omit the ash deflector and heat management plate and simply allow the heat to flow straight into the cooker, but that's not the case here.

I've seen just about every offset smoker brand out there and I believe this high mounting point is unique to the Yoder brand, at least when it is combined with an ash deflector plate and a heat management plate that needs to extend well below the cooking grate. The result is a firebox that pools heat in its upper section and then burps it out towards the cooking chamber when it is forced to move down below the heat management plate or out the opposite side through the upper vent or door opening when the door is ajar.

Yoder can argue they have some unique design here that "holds back" the flow enough to produce more smoke, but at what cost to the customer? Obviously there are more than a few customers who don't enjoy cooking on the Yoder "choke" system because it forces them to cook in a non-traditional fashion, i.e. always leave the door open, or point the cooker into the wind, or simply use charcoal with wood chunks added for flavor.

Yoder Wichita firebox elevation:

[Bryan58]

Originally Posted by slamkeys

I just saw a new post from Yoder_Herb on the Yoder Forum that finally explains what I'm doing wrong: I'm building my fire in the wrong location inside the firebox. You have to build it on the back right side next to the fire door. What was I thinking? I don't remember seeing that in the instructions.



http://community.yodersmokers.com/vi...p?p=8998#p8998

I realized this on my pit, but when the fire is built in that corner and you close the damper down halfway, the bottom part of the damper is allowing the air to flow directly under the fire and the top portion of the damper is closed on that side. If the damper were reversed, they'd tell us to build our fire on the front right side. If they know this is a problem, why not just fix it instead of just lowering the damper?

[slamkeys]

Originally Posted by Bryan58

I realized this on my pit, but when the fire is built in that corner and you close the damper down halfway, the bottom part of the damper is allowing the air to flow directly under the fire and the top portion of the damper is closed on that side. If the damper were reversed, they'd tell us to build our fire on the front right side. If they know this is a problem, why not just fix it instead of just lowering the damper?

I'm still trying to figure out why they didn't bring in some help if they can't figure it out on their own. Is there an engineer over there somewhere? Roger Davidson could show them how it's done.

My door mod must be superior to their lowered vent mod because I had a dramatic performance increase with mine - and I wouldn't think of going back to the original door. I can build my fires smack dab in the middle of the firebox and the Wichita cooks like a kiln all day long.

I smoked a prime brisket last Saturday (with a few rain showers early on) and I had a great time, and never opened the side door all day.

Fire in the hole! See any white smoke? Note: regular old oak firewood stored outdoors in 99% Houston humidity; NOT kiln-dried wood.


Houston showers - look at all that steam! This is one reason I didn't get a YS640 instead - the offset just chugs along even in the rain:


Prime packer didn't last long:

[Bryan58]

I'm glad your mod is working out for you! The brisket looks great. After 2 cooks on my Cheyenne, here is what my firebox is looking like... https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8X...ew?usp=sharing

[bbqpitsmoker]

Its an unfortunate reflection on the state of where things are at but the paint damage from negative air draft out of the top damper is the least of your worries. The biggest issue I see in the photo is that the welds holding the fire box door on look like something stevie wonder might do on an off day.... With all the issues we talk about with drafting problems the welds have actually been a Yoder strength in many cases. The welds on my pit are perfect. The welds on yours- not so much..... How could that pass QA?

[slamkeys]

The upper end of my Wichita firebox was completely scorched after a couple months usage, and the upper vent area was already scorched too:



Now that I have been able to keep my door closed and provide plenty of air through the big lower vent, I have zero scorching several months after completing the door mod. There is no evidence of heat flowing out this side. One thing I did here was apply a thin bead of black hi-temp silicone around the door flange so the door doesn't leak when it is closed, so that helps too.

[slamkeys]

Originally Posted by bbqpitsmoker

Its an unfortunate reflection on the state of where things are at but the paint damage from negative air draft out of the top damper is the least of your worries. The biggest issue I see in the photo is that the welds holding the fire box door on look like something stevie wonder might do on an off day.... With all the issues we talk about with drafting problems the welds have actually been a Yoder strength in many cases. The welds on my pit are perfect. The welds on yours- not so much..... How could that pass QA?

Yeah, I had welds that actually leaked grease on my first cook, and this coming from a company that was supposed to be an offshoot from the oil industry. Can you imagine oilfield piping with welds so sloppy they leaked grease that is not even under pressure? Amazing.

I do have some welds that look perfect, and others that must have been done by a different guy. I think I've said at least once before that they must have been training a "new guy" during the time period my smoker was made, and his part of the job was sub-par. I've heard Ritch Robin over at Gator Pit claim that each of his pit builds is assigned to 1 fabricator who is responsible for the entire build. If any of the welds look crappy, he has to own up to it.

Speaking of quality, I even posted a "how to" on Yoder's forum over a year ago that explained how you can add a simple washer beneath the firebox door latch to prevent it from scratching all the paint off as it spins around, but I see they have not taken that into consideration yet either. It's the small things that count.

http://community.yodersmokers.com/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=1202

[slamkeys]

Originally Posted by Bryan58

I'm glad your mod is working out for you! The brisket looks great. After 2 cooks on my Cheyenne, here is what my firebox is looking like... https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8X...ew?usp=sharing

I found that brisket cheap at HEB, and I've never seen a prime cut that was so well trimmed for that low price per pound. It was under 8lbs, but it was almost all flat with very little point muscle. The flat was thick all the way across too. Texas is a good place if you like beef.