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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind. |
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11-21-2012, 08:40 AM | #61 |
is one Smokin' Farker
Join Date: 09-03-09
Location: Pine Bluff, AR
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And what criteria is that? When I became a CBJ, what I heard was "judge the first bite the same as you judge the last bite in a category." Other than the pull test for brisket, the stick-to-the-roof-of-mouth test for pork, the one clean bite for ribs, there's no standard for judging. Besides how can you standardize something this subjective?
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11-21-2012, 08:47 AM | #62 | |
is One Chatty Farker
Join Date: 01-04-09
Location: Johnston, Ia
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Quote:
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Specialization in bipolar, self-injury, and OCD |
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11-21-2012, 08:48 AM | #63 | |
Full Fledged Farker
Join Date: 08-20-10
Location: Marietta, GA
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It probably should also be pointed out to Guy that at least one member of your team has judged more than 20 contests this year alone... There's been very few contests this year that we've had the WTF!!! moments when we got the scoresheets...but when we did, it was flooring at times. |
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11-21-2012, 08:56 AM | #64 |
is one Smokin' Farker
Join Date: 09-03-09
Location: Pine Bluff, AR
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I just went back thru time on this. Not years, but months is more accurate. It's not appropriate for me to write a history on this, I'm too involved and I guarantee I have a bias! Work began on this particular scoring program September 2011, based on the prior work developed on the very expensive proprietary database model. I truly hope that it can be rolled out for the 2013 season.
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11-21-2012, 09:12 AM | #65 |
is Blowin Smoke!
Join Date: 01-11-09
Location: Cumberland, RI
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If you don't like the 3 point system, come cook KCBS in the northeast where judges are not afraid to give you a 4.
Recently heard conversation in the judges tent: "This is really, really good, and it says on the score sheet that 7 is "better than average", so I'm giving it a 7." The best food still wins, and you see the same set of the "usual suspects" winning, but the scores run about 20-30 points below midwestern and southern contests. As far as the original post: poeple are right when they say just deal with it. It happens. You hit a bad table, and all bets are off. You can't really judge the quality of your food by a single contest's results. Hopefully KCBScore will offer some insight into whether or not we hit a bad table or just turned in bad food. When we cook south of the Mason-Dixon line we get a 30 point bump in our scores.
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Chris Rhode Hog BBQ "The Most Dangerous Team in BBQ" - Jon Vallone KCBS, KCBS CBJ, NEBS |
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11-21-2012, 10:19 AM | #66 | |
somebody shut me the fark up.
Join Date: 01-10-11
Location: Lawrenceville, GA
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I've learned to take the bad with the good and not let one competition scores make me question judging as my scores have been pretty consistent this year for the level of cooking I can do at this point in my competition journey. Which leads me to completely agree with you that the top teams do consistently well so judging does have consistency. But the mindset that "cooks will always find something to complain about thus why bother change anything" doesn't help the system when there are cooks and judges who want to try and improve things. Comment cards (the few I've gotten) have been very helpful to me and I've even had some scores turn around this year on categories I've had trouble with. This is because I got some great constructive feedback specifically with comment cards that had feedback/comments based on 7's. So the food was "above average", but the judges were awesome enough to let me know what small things they would have liked to make it better.
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-Jason I didn't choose D-Canoe life.......... |
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11-21-2012, 11:09 AM | #68 |
Full Fledged Farker
Join Date: 08-04-12
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
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At the comp I was a table runner it worked out to be around 6 boxes per category. I believe the ratio is supposed to be one judge per team with 6 judges plus a table captain at each table.
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Weber Performer w/smokenator WSM 22.5" White Thermapen Ex-pat Canadian [B][COLOR=Red]When all else fails just ask yourself, WWGALD???[/COLOR][/B] |
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11-21-2012, 11:52 AM | #69 |
is Blowin Smoke!
Join Date: 02-17-10
Location: San Antonio, TX
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Only 6? Well if that's the case then comment cards should be a requirment, at least on all below average scores.. IMO. Even short simple comments would do, like too bland, too sweet, no smoke, too tough etc..
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11-21-2012, 12:09 PM | #70 |
is Blowin Smoke!
Join Date: 04-14-07
Location: Lakeland Florida
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Judging is subjective. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains. As long as humans are judges there will be variations in taste and texture. Some like it hot, some like it sweet, some want melt in your mouth, some want more chew. It is what it is and you can't tell people what they are supposed to like. Top cooks try to please the majority.
AND organizers control who judges. Sometimes contests include celebrity judges. It's up to the contest. All a cook can do is go out and try to hit their mark and hope for the best.
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Ford Retired competition cook. BBQ mentor. |
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11-21-2012, 02:34 PM | #71 |
Found some matches.
Join Date: 11-20-12
Location: Arizona
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I judge and table captain, sometimes at the same time...the suggestion that I have is to give more time for the judging, say 45 minutes between turn ins instead of the current 30 minutes. Judging always feels rushed. I believe given more time, judges could "potentially" do a better assessment.
I would suggest having a comment section directly on the score cards, say to the right of each teams scoring boxes...I believe judges would be more likely to write more comments, good and bad, if there was a spot directly on the score card instead of having to find and fill out another card...see feeling rushed above. It could even be detachable if it is deemed too much work for the Reps to transcribe comments into the scoring system. I don't know how you all feel about judges getting to take home their leftovers, but from what I have experienced, I believe that this is a detriment to judging and creates more of a "how much can I score to take home" attitude for some judges. Not all judges cook BBQ, so judging gives them the opportunity to "score" some of the best BBQ. My bet would be that if each team was given a 5th annonymous box, that they would be more than happy to fill them up for judges to take home. Just my $.02 opinions, and you know the old saying about opinions. Yes I am new, and this is my first post on the forum. I have been reading the forum for quite a while, and this topic pushed me to sign up. Troubling issues fall on deaf ears without also providing viable solutions at the same time. |
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11-21-2012, 11:38 PM | #72 |
Quintessential Chatty Farker
Join Date: 09-14-05
Location: Vernon, Connecticut
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[QUOTE=fnbish;2277365]So we should just sit with the status quo and not try and change anything because you think cooks will complain about something?
Comment cards (the few I've gotten) have been very helpful to me and I've even had some scores turn around this year on categories I've had trouble with. This is because I got some great constructive feedback specifically with comment cards that had feedback/comments based on 7's. So the food was "above average", but the judges were awesome enough to let me know what small things they would have liked to make it Please do not put words in my mouth. My post was in response to an earlier post where the poster was complaining about judges being too lazy to fill out comment cards when he spent lots of money and time. I never suggested that things should be status quo. I just don't think comment cards are going to make the scores any different. All comment cards will tell you is why someone thinks your turn was good or bad. Cooks will still take issue with the score even if they know why they got that score from the comment card. I have never received a comment card that was useful. I don"t know what the answer is but I do know that having comment cards filled out is not going to improve judging.
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Guy (Pitmaster) BBQ Team: Lawn Guyland Smokers Stupidity for Dummies …because sometimes, you just can’t dumb it down enough… |
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11-22-2012, 08:18 AM | #73 |
somebody shut me the fark up.
Join Date: 05-04-05
Location: Coral Bay, USVI
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Noah, we did a comp earlier this year with a lot of new judges. We found out later that it had way more new judges than the norm. Our scores were all over the board. We had something a 999565 in several categories.
But here's the thing: a top team won the event. Why didn't they get a bad table like us? Luck? Or did half of our box suck for real? I really shook my head after that event and it made me wonder why I'm doing this. Like you said, a lot of money goes into one of these weekends.
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Cat Sass BBQ - Competition BBQ Team Community Development VP - Secret Squirrel Society (but we don't exist) Member: KCBS. CBJ New Braunfels Bandera - refurbished; Two Big Green Eggs; 6' fire pit; Weber Kettles; Superfast Blue Thermepan |
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11-22-2012, 08:28 AM | #74 |
somebody shut me the fark up.
Join Date: 05-04-05
Location: Coral Bay, USVI
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Concerning comment cards, we have never received a comment card that was useful. Case in point, we got a 1st place Brisket this year in July. The very next comp we did the exact same thing in brisket: same grade of beef, same rub, same sauce, same everything. At that next comp we scored middle of the pack and got a comment card that read, "your sauce on the brisket tasted like super market gravy". I wanted to find that judge and show him our brisket trophy from 3 weeks ago.
Again, it made me shake my head and ask myself why I keep doing this. But here I am prepping for next season!!! The best input I get is not from comment cards but from talking to judges (preferably experienced judges) after judging and before awards. They will tell you things like what was scored down at their table and why, and what they like to see and taste.
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Cat Sass BBQ - Competition BBQ Team Community Development VP - Secret Squirrel Society (but we don't exist) Member: KCBS. CBJ New Braunfels Bandera - refurbished; Two Big Green Eggs; 6' fire pit; Weber Kettles; Superfast Blue Thermepan |
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11-22-2012, 09:36 AM | #75 | |
somebody shut me the fark up.
Join Date: 01-10-11
Location: Lawrenceville, GA
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I agree that filling out cards might not improve judging. That isn't my/the point. What comment cards do is reflect why the score was given. Therefore it can help the cooks to figure out how to improve. I understand there are many out there that haven't gotten many useful comment cards, but I have and the helped improve my end product.
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-Jason I didn't choose D-Canoe life.......... |
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