Aussie v. Kiwi v. 'Merica Lamb

[buccaneer]

Originally Posted by SmokinAussie

Yes, I Have heard of Kurry Lamb. My Seth Effrikan neigbour slurred something about it being good with rice pilaf. He does say it is generally better when off your rocker on cheap scotch than Aussie Kebab Lamb, but not better than dim sums and chico rolls with habanero sauce mayo. The Kurry is South Africa's equivalent superlax... sorta... power expulsion wise at least.

Honestly, stop trying to be a poncy smart arse and cook those freaking pies.

[SmokinAussie]

^^^ Buccs, I don't think you realise how accurate (and how p1ss funny that was).

Cheerss!

Bill

[BecknCO]

1st best = local colorado lamb
2nd best = the NZ stuff

Personally I think our local stuff is pretty mild, but the NZ stuff is a little gamier/lambier, but still damn good.

I did fresh local lamb sliders for the 4th of july this year, and hardly anybody could tell it was lamb (straight fresh ground with just a little garlic salt). I'm not entirely sure if that was a good thing or bad thing

[buccaneer]

Originally Posted by BecknCO

1st best = local colorado lamb
2nd best = the NZ stuff

Personally I think our local stuff is pretty mild, but the NZ stuff is a little gamier/lambier, but still damn good.

I did fresh local lamb sliders for the 4th of july this year, and hardly anybody could tell it was lamb (straight fresh ground with just a little garlic salt). I'm not entirely sure if that was a good thing or bad thing

Yeah. No.
If its so mild people cannot tell its lamb, then it's clearly not in contention.

[CharredApron]

Originally Posted by buccaneer

Honestly, stop trying to be a poncy smart arse and cook those freaking pies.

BTW, are the pies done yet?

[Outnumbered]

We raised sheep for 30 years. The difference is this: people who know how to cook lamb and those who don't.

Beyond that, and most of it has been mentioned on here: breed (be it a meat breed or wool breed), what it's fed, how it's processed all play into it. But if you don't know how to cook it, you won't like it.

On the mutton vs. lamb thing, most U.S. folks were raised to not like lamb because that's what was passed down from generations...particularly after WWII. Soldiers were fed mutton, not lamb. We had several lamb roasts where we cooked a whole lamb. We had lots of people who would swear they hated lamb, but damn did they eat a lot of it.

And if you see lamb labeled as lamb here in the U.S., despite what somebody in this thread tried to falsely claim, it's from a lamb that is less than 12 months in age. If both cannon joints break on the front legs of a carcass, it's called a lamb. If not, it's called either yearling mutton or mutton. Once a lamb reaches a year in age, the joints in the cannon joints harden and they don't break.

http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getf...STELDEV3060365

New Zealand and Australia use the presence of incisor teeth to determine if it's mutton or lamb.

http://www.interest.co.nz/lambgrade.pdf

The page on wikipedia is a perfect example of why you don't believe wikipedia unless you confirm it. It says lamb in the U.S. is determined by the fact it's meat from an ovine animal. Obviously written by a Ozzie or Kiwi who is skairt of that good U.S. lamb from English breed animals...which is probably why so many people like the lamb they've eaten in the UK. It's probably from Suffolk, Hampshire, Shropshire breeds, or maybe the only white face breed worth having, a Dorset.

[buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Outnumbered

We raised sheep for 30 years. The difference is this: people who know how to cook lamb and those who don't.

Beyond that, and most of it has been mentioned on here: breed (be it a meat breed or wool breed), what it's fed, how it's processed all play into it. But if you don't know how to cook it, you won't like it.

On the mutton vs. lamb thing, most U.S. folks were raised to not like lamb because that's what was passed down from generations...particularly after WWII. Soldiers were fed mutton, not lamb. We had several lamb roasts where we cooked a whole lamb. We had lots of people who would swear they hated lamb, but damn did they eat a lot of it.

And if you see lamb labeled as lamb here in the U.S., despite what somebody in this thread tried to falsely claim, it's from a lamb that is less than 12 months in age. If both cannon joints break on the front legs of a carcass, it's called a lamb. If not, it's called either yearling mutton or mutton. Once a lamb reaches a year in age, the joints in the cannon joints harden and they don't break.

http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getf...STELDEV3060365

New Zealand and Australia use the presence of incisor teeth to determine if it's mutton or lamb.

http://www.interest.co.nz/lambgrade.pdf

The page on wikipedia is a perfect example of why you don't believe wikipedia unless you confirm it. It says lamb in the U.S. is determined by the fact it's meat from an ovine animal. Obviously written by a Ozzie or Kiwi who is skairt of that good U.S. lamb from English breed animals...which is probably why so many people like the lamb they've eaten in the UK. It's probably from Suffolk, Hampshire, Shropshire breeds, or maybe the only white face breed worth having, a Dorset.

If you have raised sheep in the US for 30 years I can understand why you are getting personal and defensive, but for the record, I LIKE finding out if something I have learned is wrong.
Then I get to correct it.
Nowhere in that link you posted could I find anything about a 12 month or less period for "lamb" accreditation, please point it out as I may have missed it.
The breaking ability of canon joints being a true indicator of the lamb being under 13 months old is not one I'm buying. Yet.
It was some 12 months ago I read something on the 'net about Australia and NZ using permanent teeth being a grading inicator, USA had two permanent teeth and was acceptable as lamb whereas her in the Antipodies it is no permanent teeth, and I would like to find out if that is correct or false.
Hope to get time but Greg, more links would be welcome.
I strongly disagree about your silly limit on sheep breeds that are delicious.
Lets see if we can expand your world a little too!
Gottland, Pitt Island, Dorper, Wiltshire are all sensational even the lean Texel is pretty good eating, and the dual wool meat Merino, surprisingly tasty!

[Outnumbered]

Originally Posted by buccaneer

There will be a difference.
US kill at an older age, and are grain fed to finish which mellows the natural flavour.
The Aussie/ Nz lamb will taste of....well...lamb, not mutton.
The US lamb is called hogget here, too old to be classed as lamb.
I believe the board making the decision to age and grain feed is doing a disservice to their Mericun customers, if you don't like lamb then buy another protein, but I'm pretty sure Mericuns will love it just fine.

Bucc, this is what I was referring to in that comment. Guess I came across as defensive, but I truly didn't mean to be...just adamant about defending the industry that taught me a whole bunch of responsibility. My apologies for that.

True U.S. lamb is not too old to be classified as lamb anywhere in the world. It may be, and I really have no idea if we are, that we are sending mutton or yearling mutton to Australia. There is absolutely no reason I can come up with we would be sending lamb to Au since you have so much good stuff there already. I'd probably have the same thing about hogget/yearling mutton...but then again, ya'll are more enlightened there about eating more lamb and I would suppose the same is true for mutton.

I'm not sure of this site, but the info on it is accurate:
http://www.sheep101.info/201/lambmarketing.html It says what determines the classification on the front shank breaking away.

Purdue University (in Indiana), which has a great agribusiness program but a less prominent animal science program, has a link that says the cannon bone will not fuse until a lamb is 14 months old in some cases. I suppose that is probably accurate, as is the fact that some lambs may not develop incisor teeth until they're 14 months either. I've just always said and heard it was 12 months, but that would be pretty difficult to stay hard and fast to since so many things go into how an animal develops.
http://ag.ansc.purdue.edu/sheep/ansc...arcass/442.htm

Big difference I see is that down under ya'll are judging it on the live animal, whereas here we're judging the carcass. In either case, you're going to be able to tell if it is lamb or mutton.

In my experience, most U.S. breeds will be to market weight in 5-6 months removing any doubt for what real lamb is.

Maybe the reason is the stress some lambs feel from the constant attacks of the guys wearing hip boots and velcro gloves.

Personally, I like lamb no matter where it is grown. Lamb, however, is lamb no matter the country of origin so long as it ain't too long in the tooth or has breakable cannon joints.

[Outnumbered]

This one actually goes into a little more detail from the Virginia Dept of Ag. It points out that break joint can actually break on 2 joints, (see I learned something there, too) but still be classified as mutton in the U.S. It would then go to color and width of rib bones to determine age.
http://www.vdacs.virginia.gov/livest...bcarcass.shtml

The fact is, once a lamb ages to a certain point, the cartilage in the front shank (cannon bone) will harden. If neither or both don't break, it is not called a lamb carcass. And by the time a lamb reaches 14 mos in age, the cannon bones won't break away.

Also, I was only guessing as to why it may seem we have a milder tasting lamb here since the majority of what we get is from island black-face breeds. I'm sure there are plenty of other good-quality meat breeds out there, but most of ours here share a common lineage back to the British Isles. And those breeds have been further bastardized here by breeders crossing breeds to achieve desirable traits for the show ring. Had a really big Suffolk and Hamp breeder tell us once when he had rams from each breed running with ewes from each breed that he doesn't care what ram sired the lambs. It just mattered if the lamb looked like one or the other and that would determine which breed registry got its papers.

[Outnumbered]

Bucc, really not trying to be a pest, just trying to find the written form of what I've always been taught. This appears to be from a text book that further defines what constitutes a yearling mutton carcass...and it provides actual ages.

http://books.google.com/books?id=XiB...arcass&f=false