Watching BBQ Pitmasters and got a question

[Nutz4bbq]

Oldbill said,

"This is all just stuff that I think about after having too many beers and too much time on my hands!"

Well I think of stuff like that too, but can't every remember what it was!!

Never really thought of the power issue tho, but living in Florida you have to know how to cook without power because of hurricanes and there's nothing better then the smell of bacon in the outdoors!!

[Big M1ke]

Originally Posted by 16Adams

Heat source does not matter as much to me as malted barley, hops and grain.

[thunter]

Originally Posted by marubozo

The cooker doesn't matter. It's all about how much brown sugar, honey, butter, and other crap you can pack into the foil pouch while it steams to perfection.

Ok, I'm about to start real trouble now! Foiling is only needed to rush the cooking process. If you cook low and slow (220-225), my experience has been that the meats are tender and juicy. When you cook hot and fast, the meats dry out very quickly, and if you don't foil, your ribs will be jerky, and you pork will be pulled leather. This is why I am getting away from foiling, because I want to produce quality, tender, juicy BBQ without it. From what I have learned so far... this takes skill and patience, and I plan to do it that way from now on.

[Sean "Puffy" Coals]

Originally Posted by marubozo

The cooker doesn't matter. It's all about how much brown sugar, honey, butter, and other crap you can pack into the foil pouch while it steams to perfection.

You mean boil to perfection, right?

Seriously tho, when someone asks me about the difference between real slow smoked bbq and a crockpot full of overcooked, disintegrated meat that's been soaking in cheap sauce all day, i compare it to pizza. I tell them to think of the best pizza they've ever had, compare it to a mass produced microwavable saucer of garbage and see which one they'd d choose.

[tduffy]

Originally Posted by va_connoisseur

This may have been asked but I'll put it out there...

Watching the show with my girl and she asked the question: how can the people using the electronic devices and smoker be consider on the same level as those burning just sticks?

My response was: it's all legal in competitions.

Her response: isn't maintaining fire and smoke part of being a true bbq'er? That's like using an oven with a smoke generator.

I got nothing. How say you?

Since when was cooking in a steel tube "true bbq"? If that's the desire, then go dig a pit.

[letdasmokeroll]

Originally Posted by 16Adams

Ribs, brisket , chicken, pork, steaks and burgers.

I have 7 different brands of charcoal, + pecan,hickory and mezkeet.

It really does not vary to much from six meats and 10 fuel choices.

HOWEVER-I have 14 brands of beer in my beer fridge. So to me, if it tastes good and goes with beer, electric-gas-coal-wood-pooper-etcetc just don't oversmoke or undercook the meat.

Heat source does not matter as much to me as malted barley, hops and grain.

HAHA i ssooo agree with this ...i have cooked on gas wood and charcoal to be honest everyone loves it no matter how its cooked ...i prefer to use wood because its a challenge and none of my friends can do it ...just my 2 cents and also i think old bill has it pegged

[bluzieq]

Originally Posted by thunter

Ok, I'm about to start real trouble now! Foiling is only needed to rush the cooking process. If you cook low and slow (220-225), my experience has been that the meats are tender and juicy. When you cook hot and fast, the meats dry out very quickly, and if you don't foil, your ribs will be jerky, and you pork will be pulled leather. This is why I am getting away from foiling, because I want to produce quality, tender, juicy BBQ without it. From what I have learned so far... this takes skill and patience, and I plan to do it that way from now on.

I started out with every gadget you could get , I felt almost guilty. Then at a contest it rained its butt off and I had to chunk all that and work my butt off.but I survived and won second in ribs.I still use my guru and foil but I have learned to go old school too. Low and slow is what works best for me. But on overnight cooks I break out the guru and foil cause I'm just to old to sat behind my smoker door all night.

[Happy Hapgood]

@ Oldbill, The same is true with anything else these days. Bass Fishin' used to be a cane pole and a can of worms. Heck, now I've got a couple of $1000 rod and reels. And Bass rigs can cost more than some Folk's house. Deer hunting used to be string bow. Now it's compound with carbon fiber, sights and all the accessories. It's like follow the money for a better way.

I agree that the equipment should be traditional in a separate BBQ category. That would be most interesting. I too can still find some worms and cut a pole to fish and eat well.

Thanks for this post!

[ICDEDTURKES]

Originally Posted by Toast

@ Oldbill, The same is true with anything else these days. Bass Fishin' used to be a cane pole and a can of worms. Heck, now I've got a couple of $1000 rod and reels. And Bass rigs can cost more than some Folk's house. Deer hunting used to be string bow. Now it's compound with carbon fiber, sights and all the accessories. It's like follow the money for a better way.

I agree that the equipment should be traditional in a separate BBQ category. That would be most interesting. I too can still find some worms and cut a pole to fish and eat well.

Thanks for this post!

No doubt turkey hunting, blind decoys, fans and a "75" yard shotgun.. Basically strayed away from the boards because the sport has been so dummied 'down and don't care to see it.. I can see the similarities just don't know if its as bad..

[Hawg Father of Seoul]

Originally Posted by marubozo

I have, and have won a few trophies and money, but it just isn't my thing. I know that's what it takes to win competition style BBQ, but I don't have to agree with it or like cooking that way.

BS. We do not do any of that stuff and do alright.

BTW my last brisket was a straight up no wrap brisket and it was cash in the envelope.

[Hawg Father of Seoul]

Originally Posted by oldbill

I always thought that it would be cool if there were a different circuit that allowed only old school stick burners, no insulated smokers, Eggs,

Yeah that new insulation and ceramic technology is going to ruin BBQ.

[BBQ Bandit]

Originally Posted by oldbill

I always thought that it would be cool if there were a different circuit that allowed only old school stick burners, no insulated smokers, Eggs, or any other "set it and forget it" cookers and no Gurus or Stokers.

Originally Posted by va_connoisseur

I think you and Oldbill might be on to something. There should be a different category. Because at the end of the day, fire management is part of the process of making good BBQ. If electronics are doing that for you, you're not competing on an even playing field.

I do feel these gadgets and gizmos have there place, especially if your are catering or doing backyard cooking, but if the goal of a competition is to see who can make the best BBQ, and fire control is part of making BBQ, we all should be on a level playing field.

Originally Posted by Ron_L

Finally, I like Oldbill's suggestion of a competition where no electronically assisted pits are allowed. In fact, this has been done. There was a comp on the east coast last season that followed this concept, and the Chicago Rib Classic in September has taken this approach.

One final note... Don't bash your fellow Brethren because of their choice of cooker. I see this a lot in these threads. Folks come in and disparage others because they made a different choice of cooker. That's not how we do things around here. Discuss the merits of your choice, but realize that it is exactly that. a choice. It doesn't make the other guy any less of a cook.

OK... Off of my soapbox. This has been a good discussion.

Ron is correct - in PA there's a yearly competition in April called 'Go Naked BBQ'; where any electronically controlled device OR propane (weedburner) is not allowed. The only exception is a Thermapen/Maverick temp thermometer.
http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=153770
http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=123940
http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=98395

[Wampus]

Yeah, we've done it both ways too. We used to cook on a CTO which has an electric thermostatically controlled fan. By the current rules (as Ron_L said) the thing that's the same is that the heat and fuel sources have to come from FIRE, be it from wood pellets burning, charcoal burning or a coal bed and burning wood logs. Current rules do allow electronic maintenance of that fire and corresponding cooker temperatures, but the fuel and heat still must ultimately come from the fire itself, not another fuel like electric elements or burning gas or propane.

It's all relative really.

So if you take electronic assistance away, then can a guy use a bellows and pump air manually into the coal bed of a Backwoods? What if he rigged up some kind of fan with a counterweight and springs or a crank that would drive itself without electronics? THEN is that OK? In the end, all he's doing is putting oxygen to the (still same) fuel source.

Stick burners keep getting more and more efficient (Sniper, Jambo, Peoria are a few examples of high performing stick burners). Is it "fair" for one guy to be able to use a Jambo that can cook at 300 for 6 hours on as many pieces of wood vs a homemade monster that requires a rick of wood to get through a comp? It's not about "fair". It's about what a cook is willing to spend on the tools he prefers to get the job done, using the currently allowed fuel source as best as he can within the rules.

BBQ is and always will be what it always been.....food cooked at relatively lower temps over fire and smoke. COMPETITION BBQ has and will continue to evolve.

[oldbill]

Originally Posted by Wampus

Yeah, we've done it both ways too. We used to cook on a CTO which has an electric thermostatically controlled fan. By the current rules (as Ron_L said) the thing that's the same is that the heat and fuel sources have to come from FIRE, be it from wood pellets burning, charcoal burning or a coal bed and burning wood logs. Current rules do allow electronic maintenance of that fire and corresponding cooker temperatures, but the fuel and heat still must ultimately come from the fire itself, not another fuel like electric elements or burning gas or propane.

It's all relative really.

So if you take electronic assistance away, then can a guy use a bellows and pump air manually into the coal bed of a Backwoods? What if he rigged up some kind of fan with a counterweight and springs or a crank that would drive itself without electronics? THEN is that OK? In the end, all he's doing is putting oxygen to the (still same) fuel source.

Stick burners keep getting more and more efficient (Sniper, Jambo, Peoria are a few examples of high performing stick burners). Is it "fair" for one guy to be able to use a Jambo that can cook at 300 for 6 hours on as many pieces of wood vs a homemade monster that requires a rick of wood to get through a comp? It's not about "fair". It's about what a cook is willing to spend on the tools he prefers to get the job done, using the currently allowed fuel source as best as he can within the rules.

BBQ is and always will be what it always been.....food cooked at relatively lower temps over fire and smoke. COMPETITION BBQ has and will continue to evolve.

There are going to be some stick burners that are more efficient than others due to design and the quality of the steel they're built from and there's nothing wrong with blowing air on a fire when it needs it but I think that there's a line being crossed when there is an electronic device that is literally controlling the pit for you. When one team is feeding a stick burner all night long while the neighboring team sets up their Guru to maintain their pit while they go to kick back at the Motel 6 it seems a little unfair to me! One thing to make clear is that no one here is saying that Gurus and insulated cookers are evil or should be banned, heck I wouldn't mind having a nice Pitmaker Vault or something one day with a Guru on it for myself! Who doesn't want that kind of efficiency and temp. control? The question is should those things be used in direct competition with the old fashioned stick burners that require constant attention and fire management? There should probably just be two different comps, one for the old fashioned ways and one for the new high tech ways.

[GMDGeek]

Thus for in my experience I used a Charcoal/wood chunk burner, a pellet cooker, and now a pretty solid off-set wood burner I love the BBQ from my stick burner. But I also find very little difference using my pellet cook as long as I set it for an hour of "SMOKE" before moving the temp up.

It is more about the Pitmaster and less so the pit but a high quality pit of which ever preference will make an impact for sure.