Franklins hold over technique

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robertm

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Since Franklins BBQ is one of the best briskets makers in the business I'd love to know more of the specifics of his hold over method. We know they use alto shaam holding cabinets, that's about all I know in detail though.

In no particular order here are things I'd like to know:

1) Which model Alto Shaam do they use? Or even a part number of a representative model?
2) How long do they hold? (I've heard 12 hrs)
3) What temp do they hold at? (I've heard 150 deg)
4) Does his unit have a moisture control function and if so what do they set at?
5) What is the exact step by step from when brisket probes done to comes out of holding cabinet? I've heard they rewrap in new butcher paper when it comes off cooker. Not sure if they let cool for a period of time before placing in holding cabinet.

I find the subtleties of technique in creating an excellent brisket fascinating. I'm sure others on here do as well.
 
If I remember right, Aaron worked with Alto Shaam to develop a special model. But I could be wrong?

When I toured the pit room at Franklin I was told briskets start at 10am and start coming off at around 10pm. Service is at 11am.

Can’t speak on the rest.
 
robertm said:
Since Franklins BBQ is one of the best briskets makers in the business I'd love to know more of the specifics of his hold over method. We know they use alto shaam holding cabinets, that's about all I know in detail though.

In no particular order here are things I'd like to know:

1) Which model Alto Shaam do they use? Or even a part number of a representative model?
2) How long do they hold? (I've heard 12 hrs)
3) What temp do they hold at? (I've heard 150 deg)
4) Does his unit have a moisture control function and if so what do they set at?
5) What is the exact step by step from when brisket probes done to comes out of holding cabinet? I've heard they rewrap in new butcher paper when it comes off cooker. Not sure if they let cool for a period of time before placing in holding cabinet.

I find the subtleties of technique in creating an excellent brisket fascinating. I'm sure others on here do as well.
Click to expand...

If I were Franklin and had spent many years of my time and effort experimenting through trial and error to find the perfect technique for holding, I doubt I would share a "step by step" overview of my process with the general public or potential competitors! Just saying!
 
Last edited:
Bacchus2b said:
If I were Franklin and had spent many years of my time and effort experimenting through trial and error to find the perfect technique for holding, I doubt I would share a "step by step" overview of my process with the general public or potential competitors! Just saying!
Click to expand...

BBQ is one of those things you can tell people exactly how you do it, but doesn't mean they can do it.
 
When you can go you can see the what the ovens are set at behind the cutter. I've seen different things different places. I'm sure some of it depends on local heath codes. I've seen 140, 145, 150. It might be different for different meats. If I remember correctly it was 140 for Franklin. Some places use Alto Shaam. Some use CVAPs which regulate humidity as well.
 
I heard he moved to another unit, no longer Alto Shaam.. not because it didn't work but probably out of cost or ease of use.


Franklin is a sharing kinda guy, his "secret" is his consistent process from A to Z and dealing with all the variables in between and making it work.
 
I cooked a brisket this past weekend, seasoned with salt, pepper and garlic powder. On the pit at 250 for 8 hours, wrapped in butcher paper after 6. Before I wrapped, I coated the butcher paper with squeeze parkay and a little brown sugar. I then cooked for two more hours, let it rest until cooled. Something came up so I was unable to have brisket for dinner as planned. Put in the fridge overnight, left it wrapped and then on Sunday heated the oven to 200 degrees and placed the brisket in for one hour. Let it rest about 30 minutes, when I cut into this brisket, I really should have been videoing this. Juices came out like Franklins and this meat was off the charts. I've cooked a many of good briskets before, but never allowing to rest like this, I believe this will be my go to method from now on.
 
JS-TX said:
I heard he moved to another unit, no longer Alto Shaam.. not because it didn't work but probably out of cost or ease of use.


Franklin is a sharing kinda guy, his "secret" is his consistent process from A to Z and dealing with all the variables in between and making it work.
Click to expand...


He switched to something of his own design because he wanted convection heat.
 
JS-TX said:
I heard he moved to another unit, no longer Alto Shaam.. not because it didn't work but probably out of cost or ease of use.


Franklin is a sharing kinda guy, his "secret" is his consistent process from A to Z and dealing with all the variables in between and making it work.
Click to expand...

Boy isn't that the truth.

Brisket is one of those items that seems so easy. It's a block of meat with salt, pepper and smoke on it. How hard could it be?

We are always our own worst critics. I will begrudgingly admit I now typically make a very good brisket. There are always curve balls of less than optimal and the rare spectacular. The lesser brisket meals I can usually chalk up to a specific factor after the cook. The spectacular ones are more difficult to pinpoint with the true answer likely being many factors that just lined up right.

Without writing a novel I can say these three items seem to give me the best chance to produce a spectacular brisket:

1) Quality of meat. The better the starting product the better chance of a great end product.

2) Quality of smoke. For the best traditional TX style brisket there is no substitute for an indirect hardwood fire. I've also noticed a very large offset seems to produce slightly better results compared to a backyard sized smoker.

3) Hold over time. I started doing this a couple years ago and it's made a significant difference.

There are obviously countless subtilties, variations in technique, etc. For me though, those three are baseline requirements if spectacular is the desired outcome.

Anymore input from guys with dedicated holdover cabinets about what they like to do and anything to contribute with regard to humidity levels?
 
Unsure of Franklins, but 140 is the minimum holding temp if i'm not mistaken. So they take them off the pits, put on racks till the drop to ~140 then into the warmer. No idea if its a special model but I would say you probably don't need to add much moisture if you have a locker full of briskets. If you only are resting a couple then you probably should have some added moisture.
 
I believe the humidity of the holding environment really only matters if you are resting them unwrapped. a brisket wrapped in paper or foil will be in a 100% humidity environment inside the wrap.

I recently purchase a warming oven that can sit at 145 for hours to rest wrapped briskets. I also really want to get a combi oven to try resting unwrapped.
 
It's been about two years since I've eaten at Franklin's but on my last visit they were using Vulcan units. No idea if they are custom or not but they are pricey. I know they let the briskets cool down quite a bit before they go in the warmer. I think the biggest thing is how detailed Franklin is and the volume they cook at. They cook 100+ briskets a day, tough to get that kind of experience as a home cook.
 
At the place I work at it's similar. When they come off we wrap them in plastic wrap and put them in the sham (around 160*). We pull them out of the sham when we need them on the line. They separated and sliced lean and fatty and we sell accordingly.
 
From my own experience experimenting with different techniques of long rest I am against it. It changes the texture of the meat and it just tastes weird yes you can make it super juicy to where you can eat it three or four days later but the texture is strange the coloration everything about it just sucks. I'd rather eat meat that was either slightly overdone or not cooked enough versus a super long rest. Been there done that I think long rest meat sucks
 
JAKs Q & brew said:
I believe the humidity of the holding environment really only matters if you are resting them unwrapped. a brisket wrapped in paper or foil will be in a 100% humidity environment inside the wrap.

I recently purchase a warming oven that can sit at 145 for hours to rest wrapped briskets. I also really want to get a combi oven to try resting unwrapped.
Click to expand...


I notice the butcher paper tends to dry up the longer you rest, it's like the moisture eventually evaporates if you rest it in a dry environment like a kitchen oven. Next time I cook one in paper I will try putting a pan of very hot water in the bottom of the cambro and see if that helps any.. I think it would. I also think resting the brisket meat side up allows the juices and grease to keep that meat side bark moist.. but it should be set properly before you do this otherwise it will be mush.
 
Raider18 said:
BBQ is one of those things you can tell people exactly how you do it, but doesn't mean they can do it.
Click to expand...

Roger that!

I've seen a couple presentations by comp guys and they'll say "Sure, we'll show you everything we do. Yours still won't be like ours." and they are correct.

As to the holding - not sure if I'd ever wanna spend the $$ to get a proper CVAP, but I got one of those cheap arse roaster ovens (as preached by smoke ninja for holding brisket and BobBrisket for finsihing chuck rolls) and get great results with that. It's a small enclosed space, so losing moisture is not an issue. For briskets, being conscious about venting the steam before resting has also been a big help, along with looking for the meat to be in the 150-ish range before slicing.
 
Robertm knows some things about brisket! We should read his post twice. :heh:

It was 12-13 years ago that I accidentally discovered the long hold. My briskets became so much better after that discovery. I can't say for sure how many I've cooked but it's hundreds. That's the best way to learn. If you cook for 100+ people you'll learn how hard a pit master really works. It's not for me. Sold the big pit and bought a much smaller one. Practice, practice, practice and then practice until you can't do it wrong. And TAKE NOTES. And don't change 3 things every time you cook. You'll never figure it out that way.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 
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