Store sold Wood for fuel and flavor question for newbies

The bitter taste normally comes from "green" or not fully dried wood. I add two or three fist sized chunks when I cook. I'm a minion guy and I place the wood where it is just touching the lit coals. As long as you are controlling the air coming in the chunks should smolder long enough to give you a nice ring and a good smoke flavor. You don't need to keep adding wood through a cook. The smoke ring will stop developing after the outside temp reaches 140 degrees. You can keep adding smoke flavor, but you can also over do it.

I no longer buy wood in stores, but I used to all the time. I would stay away from mesquite, IMHO it is very easy to get to much flavor using it. You should be able to find chunks (not chips) at Home Depot or Lowes. They sell them in grocery stores around here as well.

As far as using your own wood, I cut and chunk mine then let it sit for about a year before I use it. Right now I have sassafras, hickory, and cherry baking away in the sunlight.

Most people think "smoking" food means you're smoker should be billowing smoke and that isn't the case. Heavy white smoke means a fire that isn't burning cleanly and will leave nasty flavors. You also don't have to load up a cooker with a ton of smoke wood to get the flavors.

My advice is to get your cooker to the temperature you want and add 1 roughly fist sized chunk of hickory, or 1-2 fist sized pieces of fruit wood to the fire. That's it, cook normally, add no more.

grossepellets said:

As a newbie I have ruined food cooking with wood. I have used wood chunks and I have used wood I bought in the log form. I usually use charcoal as the base and then add wood chunks or wood logs.
I don't think the problem lies with the wood as much as it does with just inexperience. People can ruin food on a gas grill with no wood involved.

I want to know if it crosses your mind that you could buy a commercial bagged product in a store - will that eliminate the bad experience?
Could you further expand on this idea? I'm not quite sure what you mean by it. Do you mean some other bagged product that isn't wood chunks, chips, or logs?

What do you think makes for a wood that wont make food bitter? is it the price? - familiarity of the species? or how do I learn without blowing a wad on bad choices?
The learning comes with trial and error and learning as quickly as possible from those errors so that a person doesn't continue to ruin food. Any wood can make food bitter IMO if not used properly, if over used, if the wrong type (non smoking type) is used, and I also feel that air intake and exhaust management is the key as well as being familiar with the type of wood you are using and its properties. Minion and a few chunks is very different from all logs in a stick burner and even from a smoke bomb in a gas grill. Some woods are stronger, such as mesquite, due to the oil content in the wood. That doesn't make it bad, but just needs to be used in lesser quantities and know what it can and will do. Another big issue is simply personal taste and preference. Some like a heavy smoke flavor, some don't. This is where the type of cooker you use, the amount of wood you use, and things like wrapping food in foil etc will control the smoke issue.

How do I decide what will work before I ruin another meal? I want smoke flavor - how do I know how long to apply smoke - burn the wood? ( I am talking about traditonal wood sources not the pellet type of wood)
Just curious why pellet type wood is excluded? The issue is the smoke and controlling the smoke. Pellet type wood gives off smoke too. When using Minion in let's say a WSM or a UDS or offset in a Kettle (for me) my preference is 3-4 sometimes 5 for brisket in terms of chunks for smoke flavor. But that's my preference. Some might find that too smokey or not smokey enough. When I've used stick burners and all log fires, the key is fire management and air control. Some other tricks are preheating the logs for quicker ignition, but the biggest key is realizing that a stick burner needs LOTS more attention and tending. I also know going in that the all wood fire will create a much stronger smoke flavor profile so I will use things like foil pans, foil, etc to control the amount of smoke I get on certain things. In a WSM, Drum, you can apply the wood as a one time shot and in a stick burner, well, that's all you will use.
IF Im going to spend time buying this stuff should I buy the cheapest? does the size of wood matter? How do you know how much to add?
By stuff, do you mean chunks, chips, and cords of wood? I'm going to say size doesn't unless you are using a stick burner and want to buy it already split or split it yourself in order to save yourself time and labor. As for price, I've seen one brand of oak chunks differ in price from brand to another, but I couldn't tell you why there was a difference. Both looked and smelled like oak to me. The price difference could have been a number of things dealing with the business end to shipping rates, and beyond. I don't think the more expensive oak chunks would have been any better or different. One thing that helped me greatly was keeping a log of each cook and looking at what wnet well and what didn't and adjusting those factors so that I either did them again to continue gettign the positive results or eliminating the bad to discontinue the results I no longer wanted. Yet another, and the biggest part of my learning, came from the experience that the membership HERE was willing to impart. That alone cut my learning curve dramatically, and it still does. Good questions. This should make for an interesting thread. I look forward to the coming posts.

Thanks

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Interesting thread.

grossepellets said:

Before I get thru the next few responses heres this one; tHANKS FOR CLARIFYING

(quote )I want to know if it crosses your mind that you could buy a commercial bagged product in a store - will that eliminate the bad experience?
Could you further expand on this idea? I'm not quite sure what you mean by it. Do you mean some other bagged product that isn't wood chunks, chips, or logs? tHANKS FOR CLARIFYING FOR ANYONE ELSE - I wonder if its sold in a store - do you the buyer perceive a higher quality product in the form of wood chunks or wood chips or logs? If its purchased at a higher price does that mean its a higher quality product?

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For me, if I can find it and cut it and chunk it myself, I prefer that over store bought. First off, most times it's free. Can't beat free, but I also know what condition the wood was in when it was cut. Not that store bought stuff is bad. In terms of wood, I can tell you that when I buy it in cord quantity, I'd rather pay a little extra for the guys that sell the stuff split and the have a good quality source for the wood vs guys that sell stuff that is rotted away, and just poor in quality. I buy chunks in the store like cherry, hickory, even oak just because I can't readily find that type of wood around here. I can score enough fruit wood and especially pecan to keep me in smoke for a long time cause it's plentiful. I've never bought bagged stuff from a store that was of seriously poor quality. But I've seen bundles for sale in front of convenience stores that is sold for the fireplace that I would not buy because it was rotted, moldy, or had lots of insect damage and not worth the 5-10 bucks a bundle price for the 6 or so splits to even burn in the fireplace.

grossepellets said:

BOBBY BRISKET - How do I decide what will work before I ruin another meal? I want smoke flavor - how do I know how long to apply smoke - burn the wood? ( I am talking about traditional wood sources not the pellet type of wood)
Just curious why pellet type wood is excluded?
Only because pellets tend to be used in a pellet pooper and produce the same effect with each use. I cooked over wood so long ago that I dont remember what I did but I remember the food being bitter every time I tried. I bought a treager JR and made Q that tasted great and realized how awesome a pellet grill is - since my food no longer was bitter and still tasted lightly smoked. Now I am ready to try cooking with wood chunks again/ mostly because I have been cooking with my own wood and have figured out that no matter how long I cook over it - the food taste great every time. SO I excluded my own type of wood (like a wood pellet) so I can try to learn how to cook with chunks and chips and not spend a wad perfecting it in the process! :idea:

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I can see the logic now. Pellet poopers are very consistent in terms of temp and smoke output. Makes sense. To lessen the curve and expense, start out with more inexpensive cuts like chicken and do small scale cooks to refine the process and quantity of smoke, chunks, etc that are within your taste profile. Bitter is most times a result of air flow and of having bad smoke (white) vs. sweet blue. Another key is adding the wood in a consistent manner so it's igniting properly and there isn't a pile of logs snuffing themselves out and putting out more smoke than they are heat. A good fire is getting good air, burning at a good and consistent temp, maintains a good bed of coals and is producing thin blue smoke throughout. The key in stick burners is keeping on top of it at all times.

grossepellets said:

When I pull out my smoker its a weber kettle but I have a stick burner ordered and it will be here a week after memorial day. In the mean time, its the weber kettle. I dont have any additional air intake so my temp control comes with opening the lid by sliding it off so as to leave a semi circle open on an end. I will try the fist sized chunks and I will buy wood at ACE or HD and see which works better.

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In the kettle, just use the bottom vents to control intake and leave the top vent open all the way. I usually have them open about 1/3 or 1/4 open and that gives me good temps of 275-300. While the kettle is a good smoker, it's not the best at maintaining consistent temps for long periods of time. I will need to knock loose ash off, and sometimes choke back or open up the intakes to adjust temp. In the kettle it's best to bank all the coals to one side and what I like to do it use one fist sized chunk and place the chunk on the grate directly over the coals. This way it slowly smolders for the course of the cook and smokes longer since it won't burst into flames as long as it doesn't get too much air. Leaving the lid cracked open leads too much air getting in and higher temps, which is not a bad thing, but can cook faster and lead to charring of the food.

Good pics here:
http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=105431&highlight=kettle+setup
http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101224&highlight=kettle+setup

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70346&highlight=kettle+setup

grossepellets said:

When I pull out my smoker its a weber kettle but I have a stick burner ordered and it will be here a week after memorial day. In the mean time, its the weber kettle. I dont have any additional air intake so my temp control comes with opening the lid by sliding it off so as to leave a semi circle open on an end. I will try the fist sized chunks and I will buy wood at ACE or HD and see which works better.

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Your kettle should have an air intake on the bottom, and an exhaust vent on the lid. For smoking temps you should be running the intake on the bottom of the grill just cracked, maybe pencil width, the exhaust fully open, and the lid firmly seated on the kettle and opened as little as possible. I would guess you're making a run away fire if you're cracking the lid.

grossepellets said:

Looking at these pics tells me I need something in the fire box. Looks like adding 2 side walk bricks or a pan keeps the heat from coming in from the under side.

Does adding water help to control a hot fire?

Yes soybomb that is correct but its a bad comparison as I wasnt thinking when I said that. When I slide the lid open I am cooking only with wood. That wont apply here as I am going to use charcoal and chunks. I Will open the bottom draft deal and keep the top holes wide open.

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I use either the Weber coal trays that they make for the kettles or just some old bricks. Fire bricks are best. I have not had problems with regular old house bricks ever, but some caution against em as they can crack or shatter if they have absorbed water and then exposed to a high temps. I don't use any pans under the meat. But I do need to keep an eye on the ash/grease catcher pan so it doesn't overflow. But you are correct, the barrier keeps heat from going under the meat and charring and forces it upward so it creats more of a convection type situation in the kettle. The water may help act as a heat sink and control temps, but I've never used one in the kettle so I can't say for sure. A few times I have used an empty alum pan but only to catch the grease on brisket that had a thick fat cap on it and it was more for catching the drippings that would be used in a sauce and for storing the brisket after it was cooked.

Downtown Smokeout said:

The bitter taste normally comes from "green" or not fully dried wood. I add two or three fist sized chunks when I cook. I'm a minion guy and I place the wood where it is just touching the lit coals. As long as you are controlling the air coming in the chunks should smolder long enough to give you a nice ring and a good smoke flavor. You don't need to keep adding wood through a cook. The smoke ring will stop developing after the outside temp reaches 140 degrees. You can keep adding smoke flavor, but you can also over do it.

I no longer buy wood in stores, but I used to all the time. I would stay away from mesquite, IMHO it is very easy to get to much flavor using it. You should be able to find chunks (not chips) at Home Depot or Lowes. They sell them in grocery stores around here as well.

As far as using your own wood, I cut and chunk mine then let it sit for about a year before I use it. Right now I have sassafras, hickory, and cherry baking away in the sunlight.

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I disagree with this. I know that Myron Mixon uses green peach for all his cooks. He wants the sap pouring out of the wood. I decided to test out green wood this last weekend. I use pear cut off the tree a few hours before I put it on the grill. The wood was literally wet on each end. It took a little longer to get smoking, but I was extremely pleased with the results.

I'm not sure what the OP did to ruin his food, but green wood is not the issue...

I don't know your problem specifically but I can tell you common mistakes I made with wood when I first started out.

1. Soaking wood in water. A BIG NO, NO!!! Don't soak your wood.
2. Putting too much wood on. All you need is two maybe three fist size chunks.
3. Not having a good hot clean fire to keep fire from "smoldering".

grossepellets said:

Question - boston butt - 12 hours - will the chunks only be needed in the beginning? or is a bag of chunks going to be plenty for the entire cook? IS there a way to know when enough smoke has entered the butt, if say I am using something mild like cherry for the cook?

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Yup just 1 or 2 chunks for the whole cook. You can add the 2nd after the 1st is done although I'm not convinced it matters. A bag of chunks should last you many cooks. If thats not enough smoke flavor for you, add one or two more next time.

Here's my kettle setup for smoking. I put down a good amount of unlit coals, with a couple wood chunks in the pile, and then pour on maybe 15 lit coals. Catch the temperature on the way up and bring the intake down to a very small opening. Try to keep the lid closed as much as possible to not feed the fire. You can't control the fire if the kettle isn't kept sealed up.


I think you're probably just laying on the smoke too thick though. I promise you'll taste lots of smoke flavor with 1-2 fist sized chunks. :becky: You might want to add another chunk or two in the future, but you'll wind up with a butt that you won't want to throw out on the first time around.

grossepellets said:

Question - boston butt - 12 hours - will the chunks only be needed in the beginning? or is a bag of chunks going to be plenty for the entire cook? IS there a way to know when enough smoke has entered the butt, if say I am using something mild like cherry for the cook?

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In the third link I posted above, there is a link I posted within it to a thread that I created. I had two butts in the kettle and used to oak wine barrel staves for smoke. I left them on there the entire cook. At the end they had turned into lump coal, literally. They smoked slowly for several hours. I only like to use smoke/chunks for the first 3 hours or so. Those 3 hours or so gives me all the smoke flavor I like and that my family likes. I pretty much cook for just us anyways. I'm sure that comp style cooking may require more or less smoke flavor, I don't know. Maybe some of the compers will add to this part of the smoke talk. After that, it's just heat I'm looking for and the charcoal itself will continue to impart more smoke flavor as it smolders and burns. You will need to replenish the charcoal in the kettle for a cook that long, at least once, maybe even twice. I've been known to finish off briskets or butts in the oven if the cook is going into the night hours and I want to sleep an not fuss with tending fire anymore. After 4 hours or so, they have all the smoke flavor that we like anyway, at that point I just want em to finish cooking. The kettles run hotter, so your cooking time will decrease. I use a wireless therm most times to keep me updated with a current temp and to let me know when they hit and surpass the stall. In the hotter running kettle, a butt will be done in 6-8 hours, at least that's the time I get by with most times. Briskets can take longer, but I try to do smaller briskets (10lbers) in the kettle so that they take less time. For a brisket, I will use all charcoal and anywhere from 2-4 chunks. Depends on the size of the chunks, but most times I add, let's say 2 chunks, and when they are done smoking I'll add the other one or two depending on how much smoke time the first ones gave me. One bag of chunks will be more than enough and will get you through many cooks. When I run the UDS, I only add the chunks at the beginning and that's it. Once they have given up the smoke they have to give, I don't add anymore.

Mod Note: I deleted the posts dealing with the "Is this a joke" post. (Mine included) I'm hoping that expatpig will log back on and further clarify his question so that the thread remains on topic and is not derailed by an errant comment/question.

Thanks.

Bob

grossepellets said:

Question - boston butt - 12 hours - will the chunks only be needed in the beginning? or is a bag of chunks going to be plenty for the entire cook? IS there a way to know when enough smoke has entered the butt, if say I am using something mild like cherry for the cook?

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when i do butts on the Outlaw they take anywhere from 12-18 hours at 225 depending on size. so i'll end up using 3 baskets of fuel (minion method of Wicked good lump and 2-3 chunks of hickory). so in total i may use 6-9 fist sized chunks over the 18 hours and there is just the right amount of smokiness.