2 Problems for new Yoder Wichita owner - Page 4

SmittyJonz · 01-14-2017, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Swole

I think my Old Country Brazos may have a similar issue and I'll have to look into it. I've noticed smoke coming back out the door when open, draft issues, and the fire not burning clean enough with just the door vents open....Of course I'm still using the crappy fire grate that comes with it...I need to order a quality fire grate like you have.

Cut the center out with a grinder and bolt in expanded metal.

Big Swole · 01-16-2017, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmittyJonz

Cut the center out with a grinder and bolt in expanded metal.

Yeah, I'll do something soon for sure. I also think my issue might be that my stack end is on a slope (further down that it should be). I'll raise / shem it up more level and see if it helps.

RW34 · 01-16-2017, 04:11 PM

I have the Yoder Cheyenne which is smaller than the Witchita. I have the same exact problems as noted here. I've had the Cheyenne for a few years now. In the beginning I thought my fire management was the issue. Over time I learned it was not. I have to leave the firebox door wide open in order to maintain a hot clean fire. If I close the door the fire immediately dies out and I'm left with a smoldering stick. Frustrating isn't the word to describe cooking on this thing. If the wind is over 5mph forget it. Wind goes straight down the stack, into the cook chamber, and out the firebox. I will be selling this pit late spring because I ordered a Shirley and have a tentative build date month of June.

slamkeys · 01-20-2017, 07:48 PM

Did anyone else buy the propane log lighter from Yoder? I ended up getting one since the mounting hole was already on the firebox, but I haven't really had much of a need for it. It does come in handy when I run out of charcoal though.

The reason I bring it up is because the regulator they give you is really cheap and doesn't work well at all. When I use it I can never tell where the knob needs to be and I have had some close calls where I tried to light the gas and it surged, causing a massive flare up. Then, even after you get it lit the flames go up and down over time like the regulator just isn't capable of holding a steady pressure.

Mine looks exactly like this one shown by T-Roy Cooks in his fire management video:

I was reminded of this cheap regulator the other day when I was watching a T-Roy Q&A video, and he mentioned it while talking about his Loaded Wichita:

T-Roy Cooks (Yoder propane log lighter):

"I have the log lighter ... but I need to change the valve on that thing, because just barely cracking it - it's almost like I've got to stick a fire starter (that's lit) on the burner and then turn the gas on when I'm not close to it, because if I try to start it with a lighter where my hand is in there I'm liable to get the hair singed off me. When it lights it's like [a large flare up] - it's going all out just barely cracked on that valve, so if you'all get one be careful with it."

I agree - that's exactly my experience. I'm going to see if there's a good propane regulator available in the area so I can swap that piece of junk out. I'm amazed nobody has been injured yet (at least that I know of).

bbqpitsmoker · 01-21-2017, 06:28 AM

I finally got around to trying a fix for the airflow problems in the Yoder Wichita that stop you getting a nice clean smoke with the firebox door closed and using wood logs. My idea was to keep the firebox door closed, have the damper fully open, and block the upper damper hole so that the hot air and smoke doesn't flow out the pit backwards which I have found it to do usually.

What I found was:

* It made the pit far more efficient in wood useage to maintain a given temp, and it REALLY sat on that target temp.
* Was far slower to reach the target temp
* Didn't see any evidence of smoke leakage from the lower damper hole, whereas usually smoke is regularly pouring out of the top damper hole.
* The smoke quality was quite good when the fire reduced to coals, but each time a new split was added the extra airflow requirements to feed the fire could not be met by the lower damper hole alone (ie half the recommended air intake size), and each time a split was added the smoke turned really billowy and white, and was unsuitable for cooking with.

Seems like one of Slamkeys approaches where the top damper hole is eliminated in favor of a larger single hole as low down on the door face as possible (20" area?) would be required to make the pit achieve thin blue smoke even with new splits added and the door closed. The issue with this however is a larger air intake would need some kind of mesh cover or grill to prevent burning coals and logs falling through and starting unintentional fires.....

Now starting to weigh up whether I can stomach cutting into the factory door (these things cost $5,000 in Australia so it would kinda hurt to cut it.....)

Apparently the Yoder factory is currently looking into the complaints that people have been reporting with the airflow on this pit so will see what comes of that as well. In a perfect world there would be some factory approved + supplied modification that current owners can make to get the thing flowing properly.

slamkeys · 01-23-2017, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbqpitsmoker

The issue with this however is a larger air intake would need some kind of mesh cover or grill to prevent burning coals and logs falling through and starting unintentional fires.....

Funny - I was just talking to my wife about this subject over the weekend, because there is indeed the possibility of embers rolling out of the vent with such a large opening.

I don't really worry about it with my setup because I mounted my pit over a thick bed of landscape rocks. However, it might be more of an issue if you had your pit on a wooden deck or something like that.

My conclusion was that even the large vent opening provides a narrow barrier at the bottom of the firebox door which would stop most objects from free-falling out of the firebox, as compared to leaving the factory door open, which most Wichita owners have accepted as normal operating procedure. An open door is definitely more dangerous than a door with a narrow barrier at the bottom.

Since I have been using my makeshift firebox cover I haven't had any issues with embers falling out. On my last cook, I noted how easy it has become to manage my fire - something I don't even fret over anymore. I just throw logs in the firebox and go back to whatever else I was doing. I keep a Maverick thermometer in the house so I can monitor when the pit temp starts to decrease, and then I throw another log in and walk away. Easy as it gets.

Here is my lighting sequence. I used a small stack of splits with the log lighter to ignite the fire:
fire-start-log-lighter.jpg

Once lit, I close the lid and I'm done. No coals, no fanning, nothing. I just wait for the pit to reach 225 degrees. Here you can see the logs burning cleanly with the lid closed, and zero coals - the fire has only been going for about 10 minutes with the log lighter before turning off the gas and shutting the lid. The debris on the bottom of the firebox is the wadded up newspaper I used to ignite the log lighter. Note: I always remove my log lighter and store it after I light the fire, which is why it is not visible in this photo.
fire-no-coals.jpg

Here is the smoke from the smokestack right after closing the lid for the first time. No billowing smoke, and good pressure because the firebox is not venting out the back side. You can kind of see the gauge is sitting at around 100 degrees in this shot - just getting warmed up.
10-minute-smoke.jpg

Doc_Holliday · 01-23-2017, 02:55 PM

WOW...what an interesting thread. I have to assume that the folks at Yoder are thinking that if they redesign this they will have to retrofit a number of units they have already sold with what is obviously a design flaw. For them to admit it was a flaw would cost them, and not knowing what their cash situation is like they may not be willing (or able) to absorb the burden for fixing this. Doesn't make it right, but it's certainly something I would think they are considering as they move forward.

Either way...when I joined this forum in the welcome thread I mentioned i was hoping to get a Yoder in the spring - I take that back.

many Thanks Slamkeys.

Big Swole · 01-23-2017, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doc_Holliday

WOW...

Screen Name WINNNER!!!!! ^^^^^^

slamkeys · 01-25-2017, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doc_Holliday

I have to assume that the folks at Yoder are thinking that if they redesign this they will have to retrofit a number of units they have already sold with what is obviously a design flaw.

I didn't really think Yoder would offer any kind of recall because those are usually only mandated for serious safety issues. If somebody had been killed by their faulty design, then yes.

Also, I realized early on that "warranty" issues would be limited to things they can ship in the mail (unless you live near their business) because it's far too expensive to transport these things back to them for any serious repair work. They basically told me that bad welds and this flow issue are "within tolerance" of their standards, so that's the end of it, and they are the final arbiters of the warranty.

After some long discussions about the flow issue, they did offer to build me a custom door, but I didn't even consider that because I'm sure I could have it done locally for a much cheaper cost (my brother-in-law is a welder).

Here's a direct quote from Joe Phillips to me:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoder_Joe

"We appreciate the testing you have performed and will take this into consideration moving into the future. There is absolutely a mathematical formal [sic] between intake and exhaust that has proven to be very reliable over the years. This formal [sic] was developed over many years of testing and building product to specified customer needs. We are always willing to take advice and are committed to product improvement. This post has been heard and will be taken into consideration moving forward. We build hundreds of custom products each year that are too [sic] customer specification in cooking style and temperature ranges. There are various theories and mathematical possibilities that are out there, some are better than others. This subject has been debated and discussed for as long as people have been putting logs in a piece of pipe to cook. We think we have found the best compromise, as with anything there is always room for improvement.
We have offered to build you a new door or would be open to any other modification that you may suggest. We are here to help."

Note: His response followed my discussion on vent area calculations, and he meant to say 'formula' not 'formal' as noted in the quote.

He goes on to imply that any changes they make in the future will not be made hastily because they don't want to "cause another issue down the line," as quoted here:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoder_Joe

"In final response to this topic. We have and always will pursue to build the best product we possibly can. We value customer feedback and continually evolve our product lines based on this type of communication. We are not interested in being right, in our business the customer is always right and we do everything we can to accommodate any and all issues or suggestions. This kind of commitment is rare in today's fast-paced world. We have made the commitment to evaluate this section of our product line and see if we can improve the overall experience. We are currently doing this. We have sold thousands of wood pits across the world and have done so with great success. Nobody ever suggested that our product is infallible nor are we going to provide affirmation of something that we haven't tested to determine the source of the complaint. The customer experience dictates that we need to have a look at the product and see what if anything can or should be done. If we have given the impression we are not listening that certainly isn't the case. These kind of changes can be complicated and we need to be sure that we aren't going cause another issue down the line.
Our product couldn't be such a success without our customers. We appreciate the business and will always work hard to make the best product possible."

Overall his responses were very calculated and protective of his company, which is understandable, but that doesn't leave us customers much hope for a remedy any time soon. I'll probably end up selling the Yoder and buying something better rather than waiting for a new Wichita design. I've seen Yoder's Facebook page and their videos and it's obvious they are wholly focused on pellet poopers right now - that's where they are making their mark. I'd love for them to prove me wrong though, and release a revamped design that completely shuts up the complainers (like me) so that's my challenge to them!

bbqpitsmoker · 01-25-2017, 08:46 PM

[QUOTE=slamkeys;3726923]I didn't really think Yoder would offer any kind of recall because those are usually only mandated for serious safety issues. If somebody had been killed by their faulty design, then yes./QUOTE]

Which infortunately could be an outcome of a cooker that can only be used in someones backyard ie. in relatively close proximity to their house, as long as the firebox door is left open to permit a clean burning fire which could have the unintended consequence of burning coals falling through that same open firebox door and setting fire to something ...

I have personally come back to check on my cooker to see a burning log on the ground behind my smoker that had fallen out of the firebox which had necessarily been left open to prevent the smoker billowing white smoke. The more time I spend on this thread the more I think I need to sell this Wichita and move on to a different cooker.....

Randy3269 · 01-25-2017, 09:10 PM

Shirley Fabrication my friend. Never look back.

Melt In The Sun · 02-17-2017, 10:35 AM

Well I decided to take the plunge. I haven't been around here for a while, but popped my head in and saw this thread (and slamkeys other threads) and decided to fix this same problem that I've had for a while.

For me, "learn your cooker" meant building a huge fire (note all the rust on my firebox) and put a concrete block under the feet at the stack end of the smoker to tilt the whole thing. This made it draft OK, but looked stupid and was a bit of a safety risk.

I'm having a friend make me a door like this, and will let y'all know how it works...
http://community.yodersmokers.com/vi...e371fb8d#p7571

slamkeys · 07-05-2017, 09:14 PM

The people at Photobucket have lost their minds! They want $400 bucks per year to "allow" my photos to be linked to 3rd-party sites. That should be illegal. I guess I'll have to upload all my photos as attachments from now on - whatever.

I finally got some free time to work on my Wichita door mod and I got it completed. I'll have to do a cook this weekend to test it out.

I added a new latch while I was at it because I wanted to have cool-touch handles, which I believe should be standard on these expensive smokers.

SmoothBoarBBQ · 07-06-2017, 08:01 AM

This is a great thread... my first stick burner was a Yoder Cheyenne and I had the exact same issue with having to leave the firebox door open to get a clean fire. As others have posted, every so often I would come back and have a wood log that had fallen onto my concrete patio. I just thought this was how stick burning was... an absolute chore and a nightmare to deal with... that was until I got my Chargrill Trailer from Johnson Smokers. This thing has an enormous firebox with 2 very large inlets on either side to allow for a good amount of airflow with the firebox door closed. Not trying to do a commercial here but just stating that it was such a huge difference in performance that it really made me realize how "wrong" the setup is with my Yoder.

I love my Yoder as it really is a beautiful piece of gear, but even with the heat management plate there is a massive temp differential across the cooking chamber. I was never able to use the 8" or so nearest the firebox as the flame itself was sucked into the cooking chamber, so I always placed a waterpan there. That really cuts this small cookers capacity down quite a bit, so I'm glad I finally moved onto something much bigger.

Anyways, great thread, and I love the idea of having a larger opening in the firebox door. Lots of people are very creative and it's good to see people making improvements even if Yoder is too stubborn to do so.

Qkooker · 07-06-2017, 10:38 AM

I bought a used Cheyenne. I never owned a stick burner before and fought with these same issues as everyone else. One more issue I had was a lot of soot when using this rig. I had just about given up on the thing. I made two 3/8" tuning plates that I can move to help with the heat & temp variation. This helped, but I also added a shield plate at an angle off the fire box to help send the heat downward. Then I made a charcoal basket which keeps a longer fire. All these modifications have helped and now it works ok. I was in the process of welding a new larger diameter pipe for the chimney to fine tune this, until I ran across this great thread. I was unable to see all the pictures from photo bucket to help. I wish you could re-post pictures and diagrams. I can only imagine all the frustrated Yoder owners out there. Company should stop production on these pits yesterday and get these pits done right.

01-16-2017, 04:11 PM	#48
RW34 On the road to being a farker Join Date: 04-18-14 Location: Lancaster,Ca	I have the Yoder Cheyenne which is smaller than the Witchita. I have the same exact problems as noted here. I've had the Cheyenne for a few years now. In the beginning I thought my fire management was the issue. Over time I learned it was not. I have to leave the firebox door wide open in order to maintain a hot clean fire. If I close the door the fire immediately dies out and I'm left with a smoldering stick. Frustrating isn't the word to describe cooking on this thing. If the wind is over 5mph forget it. Wind goes straight down the stack, into the cook chamber, and out the firebox. I will be selling this pit late spring because I ordered a Shirley and have a tentative build date month of June. __________________ Shirley Fabrication 24x65 Wagon wheel model on order.

01-20-2017, 07:48 PM	#49
slamkeys On the road to being a farker Join Date: 07-22-16 Location: Houston, TX	Did anyone else buy the propane log lighter from Yoder? I ended up getting one since the mounting hole was already on the firebox, but I haven't really had much of a need for it. It does come in handy when I run out of charcoal though. The reason I bring it up is because the regulator they give you is really cheap and doesn't work well at all. When I use it I can never tell where the knob needs to be and I have had some close calls where I tried to light the gas and it surged, causing a massive flare up. Then, even after you get it lit the flames go up and down over time like the regulator just isn't capable of holding a steady pressure. Mine looks exactly like this one shown by T-Roy Cooks in his fire management video: I was reminded of this cheap regulator the other day when I was watching a T-Roy Q&A video, and he mentioned it while talking about his Loaded Wichita: T-Roy Cooks (Yoder propane log lighter): "I have the log lighter ... but I need to change the valve on that thing, because just barely cracking it - it's almost like I've got to stick a fire starter (that's lit) on the burner and then turn the gas on when I'm not close to it, because if I try to start it with a lighter where my hand is in there I'm liable to get the hair singed off me. When it lights it's like [a large flare up] - it's going all out just barely cracked on that valve, so if you'all get one be careful with it." I agree - that's exactly my experience. I'm going to see if there's a good propane regulator available in the area so I can swap that piece of junk out. I'm amazed nobody has been injured yet (at least that I know of). Last edited by slamkeys; 07-09-2017 at 09:51 PM.. Reason: Fix broken image links

01-25-2017, 09:10 PM	#56
Randy3269 is one Smokin' Farker Join Date: 02-06-14 Location: Canyon Lake, TX	Shirley Fabrication my friend. Never look back. __________________ 20x36 Chuckwagon Cooker (offset) and an old 22" split rim wheel with a Weber grill and lid.

07-06-2017, 08:01 AM	#59
SmoothBoarBBQ is One Chatty Farker Join Date: 02-25-17 Location: Killeen, TX Name/Nickname : Donnie	This is a great thread... my first stick burner was a Yoder Cheyenne and I had the exact same issue with having to leave the firebox door open to get a clean fire. As others have posted, every so often I would come back and have a wood log that had fallen onto my concrete patio. I just thought this was how stick burning was... an absolute chore and a nightmare to deal with... that was until I got my Chargrill Trailer from Johnson Smokers. This thing has an enormous firebox with 2 very large inlets on either side to allow for a good amount of airflow with the firebox door closed. Not trying to do a commercial here but just stating that it was such a huge difference in performance that it really made me realize how "wrong" the setup is with my Yoder. I love my Yoder as it really is a beautiful piece of gear, but even with the heat management plate there is a massive temp differential across the cooking chamber. I was never able to use the 8" or so nearest the firebox as the flame itself was sucked into the cooking chamber, so I always placed a waterpan there. That really cuts this small cookers capacity down quite a bit, so I'm glad I finally moved onto something much bigger. Anyways, great thread, and I love the idea of having a larger opening in the firebox door. Lots of people are very creative and it's good to see people making improvements even if Yoder is too stubborn to do so. __________________ Weber Kettle, Johnson Smokers Med 6', Cotton Gin "Harvester" UDS

01-21-2017, 06:28 AM	#50
bbqpitsmoker Full Fledged Farker Join Date: 12-08-15 Location: Tatooine	I finally got around to trying a fix for the airflow problems in the Yoder Wichita that stop you getting a nice clean smoke with the firebox door closed and using wood logs. My idea was to keep the firebox door closed, have the damper fully open, and block the upper damper hole so that the hot air and smoke doesn't flow out the pit backwards which I have found it to do usually. What I found was: * It made the pit far more efficient in wood useage to maintain a given temp, and it REALLY sat on that target temp. * Was far slower to reach the target temp * Didn't see any evidence of smoke leakage from the lower damper hole, whereas usually smoke is regularly pouring out of the top damper hole. * The smoke quality was quite good when the fire reduced to coals, but each time a new split was added the extra airflow requirements to feed the fire could not be met by the lower damper hole alone (ie half the recommended air intake size), and each time a split was added the smoke turned really billowy and white, and was unsuitable for cooking with. Seems like one of Slamkeys approaches where the top damper hole is eliminated in favor of a larger single hole as low down on the door face as possible (20" area?) would be required to make the pit achieve thin blue smoke even with new splits added and the door closed. The issue with this however is a larger air intake would need some kind of mesh cover or grill to prevent burning coals and logs falling through and starting unintentional fires..... Now starting to weigh up whether I can stomach cutting into the factory door (these things cost $5,000 in Australia so it would kinda hurt to cut it.....) Apparently the Yoder factory is currently looking into the complaints that people have been reporting with the airflow on this pit so will see what comes of that as well. In a perfect world there would be some factory approved + supplied modification that current owners can make to get the thing flowing properly.

01-23-2017, 02:55 PM	#52
Doc_Holliday Got Wood. Join Date: 01-15-17 Location: Fairfax, VA	WOW...what an interesting thread. I have to assume that the folks at Yoder are thinking that if they redesign this they will have to retrofit a number of units they have already sold with what is obviously a design flaw. For them to admit it was a flaw would cost them, and not knowing what their cash situation is like they may not be willing (or able) to absorb the burden for fixing this. Doesn't make it right, but it's certainly something I would think they are considering as they move forward. Either way...when I joined this forum in the welcome thread I mentioned i was hoping to get a Yoder in the spring - I take that back. many Thanks Slamkeys.

01-25-2017, 08:46 PM	#55
bbqpitsmoker Full Fledged Farker Join Date: 12-08-15 Location: Tatooine	[QUOTE=slamkeys;3726923]I didn't really think Yoder would offer any kind of recall because those are usually only mandated for serious safety issues. If somebody had been killed by their faulty design, then yes./QUOTE] Which infortunately could be an outcome of a cooker that can only be used in someones backyard ie. in relatively close proximity to their house, as long as the firebox door is left open to permit a clean burning fire which could have the unintended consequence of burning coals falling through that same open firebox door and setting fire to something ... I have personally come back to check on my cooker to see a burning log on the ground behind my smoker that had fallen out of the firebox which had necessarily been left open to prevent the smoker billowing white smoke. The more time I spend on this thread the more I think I need to sell this Wichita and move on to a different cooker.....

07-06-2017, 10:38 AM	#60
Qkooker Knows what a fatty is. Join Date: 09-15-16 Location: Victoria, TX	I bought a used Cheyenne. I never owned a stick burner before and fought with these same issues as everyone else. One more issue I had was a lot of soot when using this rig. I had just about given up on the thing. I made two 3/8" tuning plates that I can move to help with the heat & temp variation. This helped, but I also added a shield plate at an angle off the fire box to help send the heat downward. Then I made a charcoal basket which keeps a longer fire. All these modifications have helped and now it works ok. I was in the process of welding a new larger diameter pipe for the chimney to fine tune this, until I ran across this great thread. I was unable to see all the pictures from photo bucket to help. I wish you could re-post pictures and diagrams. I can only imagine all the frustrated Yoder owners out there. Company should stop production on these pits yesterday and get these pits done right.