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Q-talk *ON TOPIC ONLY* QUALITY ON TOPIC discussion of Backyard BBQ, grilling, equipment and outdoor cookin' . ** Other cooking techniques are welcomed for when your cookin' in the kitchen. Post your hints, tips, tricks & techniques, success, failures, but stay on topic and watch for that hijacking.


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Old 10-29-2020, 10:00 AM   #16
worktogthr
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When you say tough and dry are you talking about the casings or the meat themselves? If it was the casings, it probably means you didn't soak them long enough before stuffing. If it was the meat it could be the fat ratio as mentioned above. When you say dry, do you mean crumbly? That would be the result of a poor bind. That can be fixed with some better mixing techniques next time. Beauty about sausage is that even the mistakes can be used. Dice it up and use it in stews, chilis, sautes, etc where moisture will be added o the whole dish anyway.
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Old 10-29-2020, 10:18 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worktogthr View Post
When you say tough and dry are you talking about the casings or the meat themselves? If it was the casings, it probably means you didn't soak them long enough before stuffing. If it was the meat it could be the fat ratio as mentioned above. When you say dry, do you mean crumbly? That would be the result of a poor bind. That can be fixed with some better mixing techniques next time. Beauty about sausage is that even the mistakes can be used. Dice it up and use it in stews, chilis, sautes, etc where moisture will be added o the whole dish anyway.

Hi I meant the meat, was dry & tasteless. NOT crumbly at all they were rock solid.I don't think stews/chili will improve them?
Thanks Dan
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Old 10-29-2020, 10:19 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by DanB View Post
Hi No sous vide here. Sliced few last night, I can see them maybe being tough& dry but being tasteless. These were from a premix package.Went back and read the reviews,all good? Today I will test the fresh bratwurst.

Thanks DanB

PS They were so bad they are headed for the garbage.
The tasteless factor is weird. I only buy one sausage seasoning and it is chorizo from Walton's, the other 6 or 8 flavors I make myself. My main complaint from the seasonings I've tried is high salt levels or an unbalance of one particular spice. Like too much sage in a breakfast sausage, or Italian that is heavy on the fennel.
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Old 10-29-2020, 01:32 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by thirdeye View Post
The tasteless factor is weird. I only buy one sausage seasoning and it is chorizo from Walton's, the other 6 or 8 flavors I make myself. My main complaint from the seasonings I've tried is high salt levels or an unbalance of one particular spice. Like too much sage in a breakfast sausage, or Italian that is heavy on the fennel.

Hi Same with all the premix packs they are salty, NOT this one,No taste all?
I am going to fry some later today,and see "IF" anything changes..I doubt it.


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Old 10-31-2020, 04:07 PM   #20
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I also made fresh Bratwurst.. A little more tastier,but dry & hard ..The texture wasn't like any other other sausage I've ever eaten. The smoked sausages tasted a little better today, but like the bratwurst it was dry & hard..I put them all in frying pan no juices were coming out of them, usually with my home made fresh sausage when I prick them the juice/fat comes running out..Not this time with bratwurst or the smoked ones. One would think with the added phosphate moisture would be the least of my problems.


No moisture




Not even the right texture




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Old 11-01-2020, 07:09 AM   #21
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Hi All OK so what are your thoughts/idea's on my smoked sausage that went wrong.? What should I do next time?
Thanks DanB.
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Old 11-01-2020, 08:24 AM   #22
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I smoke snack sticks in my pellet grill at low temp which is 180 an it never cooks out the fat.Same process as sausage. As far a taste I truly don’t think you added enough of the seasoning mix. Everyone’s taste buds are different. For your liking you may need extra than what’s recommended
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Old 11-01-2020, 08:28 AM   #23
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What’s would you say your meat to fat ratio was ?
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Old 11-01-2020, 09:54 AM   #24
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What’s would you say your meat to fat ratio was ?

Hi I really don't know the fat to meat ratio was..For the beef I use a chuck roast. Looked pretty fatty to me.
For the pork it was a butt, had plenty of fat.


Next time I trim a packer I'm going to save the fat and load up sausage meat with it.



Thanks Dan
PS Do u think the phosphate had anything to with making the sausages hard?
Of ALL the fresh sausages I've made never had them come out hard.
This is the 1st time I using the phosphate
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Old 11-01-2020, 01:12 PM   #25
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Quote:
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Hi All OK so what are your thoughts/idea's on my smoked sausage that went wrong.? What should I do next time?
Thanks DanB.
All beef or a high ratio of beef to pork sausages are harder to make moist than all pork or a high ratio of pork to beef. I would start with small batch experiments, say 2 or 3 pounds, and not concentrate on casing the sausage. For your experimental links make skinnies, Any remainder you can keep in bulk or make patties for breakfast or sausage burgers. For your pork use ground pork butt, they are a perfect fat ratio, and for your beef buy bulk burger that is confirmed at 70:30.

Since you will be smoking the test run sausage.... Go ahead and add the correct amounts of Cure #1, and AmesPhos mixed with water (remember you were heavy on the phosphates), and make sure the meat is icy cold when you mix all of the ingredients. Add additional icy water until you get a sticky texture, don't follow the recipe amount, go by feel. Icy water is very important. Since you will be smoking it consider using non-fat dry milk 1% to 3%. I use NFDM on almost all of my smoked sausage. It is a binder and holds moisture.

Here is how to make skinnies: Form into 1" to 1.5" logs, wrap in clear plastic, twist one end and tie off. Hold the other end and twist the link and tie off. Let these rest in the fridge about 18 hours.



For cold smoking just use your pellet tube for 2 or 3 hours, block the door open as you want as much draft as possible. Either finish on the smoker or in the oven at 180° (if that's the lowest temp you can staTrt with), until the internal is 155°. These are all beef skinless skinnies... the cure is what makes the color bloom. They will perform almost like a cased sausage.






For reference, this is my typical grind size, if you go finer, re-chill before the second grinding.
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Old 11-01-2020, 04:49 PM   #26
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Hi Since you will be smoking the test run sausage.... Go ahead and add the correct amounts of Cure #1, and AmesPhos mixed with water (remember you were heavy on the phosphates), and make sure the meat is icy cold when you mix all of the ingredients. Add additional icy water until you get a sticky texture, don't follow the recipe amount, go by feel. Icy water is very important. Since you will be smoking it consider using non-fat dry milk 1% to 3%. I use NFDM on almost all of my smoked sausage. It is a binder and holds moisture.



The cure % was on the package instructions.
The Phosphate was recommended by the owner of the company.
Here is what he had to say about the phosphate.

There’s wiggle room, though. The more you use, the more it goes from juicy to bouncy to rubbery, so you may need to experiment with your particular meat mix, but I’d start with about 1%, then adjust up or down. By weight, that’s 4.5 grams per pound. That can be hard to weigh precisely. I would think you’re working in larger batches, and with five pounds or more of meat, you should be able to use volumetric measures, like teaspoons. I can get you a volumetric measure this afternoon if you let me know your batch size.
I did make sure everything was ice cold.The grinder parts & meat were in the freezer.
If there is a next time I will do a small test fry for taste.


Thanks Dan
PS Maybe next time I should just concentrate on just one type.one.
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Old 11-01-2020, 05:24 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanB View Post

The cure % was on the package instructions.
The Phosphate was recommended by the owner of the company.
Here is what he had to say about the phosphate.

There’s wiggle room, though. The more you use, the more it goes from juicy to bouncy to rubbery, so you may need to experiment with your particular meat mix, but I’d start with about 1%, then adjust up or down. By weight, that’s 4.5 grams per pound. That can be hard to weigh precisely. I would think you’re working in larger batches, and with five pounds or more of meat, you should be able to use volumetric measures, like teaspoons. I can get you a volumetric measure this afternoon if you let me know your batch size.
I did make sure everything was ice cold.The grinder parts & meat were in the freezer.
If there is a next time I will do a small test fry for taste.


Thanks Dan
PS Maybe next time I should just concentrate on just one type.one.
In the United States the % of Cure #1 is fixed at 0.25%, which is 2.5 grams per kilogram to arrive at 156 parts per million. Using grams is the easiest and most accurate method because measuring spoons can have up to a 25% error. With sodium nitrite making up only 6.25% of Cure #1 you want to be as accurate as possible.

With all due respect there is very little wiggle room with phosphates. The recommended amount is 0.3% to 0.5% (which is 3 grams to 5 grams per kilogram or 2.2 pounds) and I just verified this with three sources, the AmesPhos site, the Marianski brothers book 'Home Production of Quality Meats and Sausage and the "Additives" page from Sausage Maker Supplies.

Anyways, keep us posted on your progress, I hope you get the bugs worked out because it has to be something simple.
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Old 11-02-2020, 07:34 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by thirdeye View Post
In the United States the % of Cure #1 is fixed at 0.25%, which is 2.5 grams per kilogram to arrive at 156 parts per million. Using grams is the easiest and most accurate method because measuring spoons can have up to a 25% error. With sodium nitrite making up only 6.25% of Cure #1 you want to be as accurate as possible.

With all due respect there is very little wiggle room with phosphates. The recommended amount is 0.3% to 0.5% (which is 3 grams to 5 grams per kilogram or 2.2 pounds) and I just verified this with three sources, the AmesPhos site, the Marianski brothers book 'Home Production of Quality Meats and Sausage and the "Additives" page from Sausage Maker Supplies.

Anyways, keep us posted on your progress, I hope you get the bugs worked out because it has to be something simple.



Hi So what u are saying is the Phosphate is way too much for my 1lb sausage mix.
I don't have a gram scale.I was using teaspoons & tablespoons. So with the cure It will be 0.25% of 1 lb? The cure on the pack direction said 1.1g or a scant 1/4teaspoon.
Thanks Dan
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Old 11-02-2020, 11:56 AM   #29
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Biggest first thing I would recommend is invest in something like this.

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I had a polder scale that only went to 11 lbs and was a pain to adjust from lb to grams. This scale adjusts very easy, goes up to 33 lbs and is under 20 bucks.

Second, invest some time in research, either on here, other forums or buy a couple books. There is a ton of free info out there that will improve your game, just got to seek it out. I personally have nothing against the kits, but I like to develop my own recipes. and I personally try to keep as much artificial or chemical additives out of my homemade sausage. Unless it is needed, like cure #1 or #2, depending what I am making. Heck that is why I am making it, so I get my personal tastes and I know exactly what is in it. The best advice I got was to test fry a little sample, so you can adjust the seasoning if needed. Before you end up with 5 lbs of tasteless sausage. lol

As for the texture, make sure you spend the proper amount of time to develop and extract the proteins via a long enough mix session. It makes a huge difference in the finished product.

Finally, have fun and dont over think it. Some will be great, some will be OK and some will suck, and that is ok. Have fun, its BBQ.
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Old 11-02-2020, 01:12 PM   #30
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Quote:
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Hi So what u are saying is the Phosphate is way too much for my 1lb sausage mix.

I don't have a gram scale.I was using teaspoons & tablespoons. So with the cure It will be 0.25% of 1 lb? The cure on the pack direction said 1.1g or a scant 1/4teaspoon.
Thanks Dan
Yes. The recommended volumetric measurement of phosphates is 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon per pound of ground meat. It needs to be dissolved in water for even distribution. There are food grade phosphates and industrial grades. Food phosphates fall into different blends and product labeling might just say phosphates, or sodium phosphate, or sodium triphosphate blend, or sodium tripolyphosphate (STPP). Since their use is regulated I can't imagine a manufacturer producing a product that would have a different usage recommendations. The exception to this would be a manufactured product containing phosphates, like some competition BBQ injections. One brand might use phosphates on the low end of the recommended scale, and another brand might opt for a different amount.

Cure #1 volumetric measurement is 1 level teaspoon for 5# of meat. So that would equal 1/5 of a teaspoon for 1# of meat. Since most measuring spoon sets don't have that size.... the instructions of "scant 1/4 teaspoon" would be logical. This can be dissolved in water like the phosphates.
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