*Cured* Smoked Turkey

I’ve cured them a couple of times. Followed the Kutas book. Pumped to ten percent of green weight, followed by an ice water soak for three hours, back into pickle for 48 hours and smoke off. It’s def hammy.

It was pink.

5 days in the cure for every 2 inches of thickness is a decent rule of thumb. I just rubbed down some brisket for pastrami after 7 days. Went 13 days on rack of beef ribs before but I would think it penetrates turkey a bit quicker than beef. My guess is be 10 days will be plenty. I bet it comes out great!

bluetang said:

I’ve cured them a couple of times. Followed the Kutas book. Pumped to ten percent of green weight, followed by an ice water soak for three hours, back into pickle for 48 hours and smoke off. It’s def hammy.

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^ +1 .... Or any proven ham recipe will also work. Using a scale is important to accurately inject 10% of the weight of the bird of curing brine into the center of the breasts and thighs.


I cure and smoke turkey breasts several times a year as my wife often requests turkey ham. Very lean and flavorful.

bluetang said:

I’ve cured them a couple of times. Followed the Kutas book. Pumped to ten percent of green weight, followed by an ice water soak for three hours, back into pickle for 48 hours and smoke off. It’s def hammy.

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EyeBurnEverything said:

I am looking for that pink ham color. I have had whole smoked turkeys as well as the turkey legs and the meat looks just like ham, nice and pink. I watched some youtube videos where they "pickle" for 4 days, and it still wasnt pink.



I am not going to argue that your version wasn't "hammy" I just doubt it was pink througout in just 2 days.

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First before starting make sure your turkey isn't "enhanced" or "self-basting". this means it is already injected with salt water, you may have to make a slight adjustment.


As BlueTang said, "yes it is pink", injecting is the key. When you inject the proper amount of brine into the the meat and along the bone before submerging, you are starting to cure from within as well from the outside. Injecting not only speeds up the curing process, but also helps to prevent denaturing of the meat and spoilage along the bone (bone sour).


If you follow Kutas recommendations, he used a salimometer to get his brine to 21° salinity. He then weighs the bird and takes takes 10% of the bird weight from the prepared curing brine.

For birds weighing up to 10 pounds; He then takes that brine and further divides it into 3 more quantities;
60% of the 10% for the breasts (each breast getting 3 equal injections)
30% of the 10% for the thighs (each thigh getting 2 equal injections)
10% of the 10% for the drumsticks (each drumstick getting 1 injection)
====
100% of 10%


After the bird is injected, it is then submerged in the remaining 90% of the brine.

For larger birds he uses a different formula.

The idea of not leaving the bird in the 21° salt solution for a long period of time is for preserving texture. No one likes a mushy texture for ham.

See https://www.meatsandsausages.com/poultry-and-game/poultry


Keep in mind that poultry is mostly white meat so the breasts will be a lighter shade of pink than the color of ham.



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I was on my way out the door this morning so I forgot to clarify....


Calculating a Wet Cover (Pickle) Cure is slightly more complicated and is used more in large scale and commercial applications. But one needs to understand how it works for food safety.

Curing with a wet brine/cover pickle is not only calculated on total PPM of the liquid, but also the amount of pumped liquid into the meat, and finally the amount of pick-up within the meat itself. In this sense, the totals seem like they are greatly far off from where they really should be.

The actual formulation for a wet cure/cover pickle is a calculated Formula using % pick-up of ppm = lb. nitrite x % pick-up x 1,000,000/lb. pickle. This is much better than copying a recipe from the internet, which in many cases are solely based on what I consider to be the author’s imagination.

references
http://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/wcm/connect/7d364131-137e-4da3-905b-fa240974a5a9/7620-3.pdf?MOD=AJPERES
http://www.aamp.com/foodsafety/documents/Directive7620-3.pdf

Also here is a good explanation of the process that make it a little more understandable.
From...... http://www.meatsandsausages.com/hams-other-meats/hams (quoted below)

Without weighing the meat after the cure, the only way to determine % pick-up of cured meat is by an educated guess based on previous experience. It is generally accepted that immersion pick-up is about 4% of the weight. If we add 3 ounces of Cure #1 to 1 gallon of brine as Kutas directs, the solution will contain roughly 1464 ppm of sodium nitrite. At first thought it may seem that there is a real excessive amount of nitrite in water.

The reality is that only a small percentage will be absorbed by meat during the immersion process. At 4% pick-up the turkey will absorb 59 ppm which will be not enough for any meaningful curing. However 10% pump (needle pumping) the the poultry, the meat will then contain 159 ppm of sodium nitrite, which is in compliance with the government standards. Pumping more than 10% or increasing the amount of cure, or time in the solution, all will of course cross the acceptable standards.

Wow Bob, just wow! We're very blessed to have you here; the knowledge that you possess, and your willingness to share it - thank you!

EyeBurnEverything said:

Agreed. I must have struck a nerve. Definitely some pride in those posts.

Thing is, i wasnt trying to be a smart @$$, but i watched a bunch of youtube videos of people injecting cure into a turkey and letting it brine for 2-4 days and when they sliced the turkey it was still white. So i am skeptical.

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Sorry if I seemed to come back strong; there are just too many unproven methods and recipes floating around on the net (recipes/videos); just because they are there doesn't necessarily mean they are correct or even accurate. You didn't strike a nerve and no offense taken, I hope this is mutual with you as well.

Your skepticism of the video you watched is a good sign that you understand that tutorials for poorly made products can exist on the net. Think of not properly calculating the PPM and curing times as driving a car without a dipstick for the oil; while there is a safe range, way too little, or way too much could potentially produce catastrophic results. For similar reasons that engines have dipsticks to verify safe operating levels, is somewhat similar to why we need to weigh and properly calculate our PPM of the final product.

I just wanted to clarify Rytek Kutas' Method for curing poultry that BlueTang discussed. The injection speeds the process of curing, giving a great, safe, and calculated finished product. Kutas, like the Marianski Brothers are all pioneers and masters in the curing of meats at home and making sausage at home movements that has become so popular in today's world. Rytek was a co-founder of The Sausage Maker Supply Store, which brought hard to find items and knowledge to those with passion for creating great food.

All in all, it is great to be skeptical and to approach any new method / product with caution. It simply shows that you want to take pride in your efforts. Keep a logbook of curing methods, times, ingredients, ect. Always calculate your own brine and PPM even if you follow a proven recipe. It will help you to learn, to hone, and to sharpen your efforts, as well as preventing you from making mistakes. Caution can be a great friend in these uncharted waters.


But on the flip side you can't discredit a proven method with proper calculations of PPM and times, just because you don't think it is adequate time. Skepticism is good, but rather than just disagreeing and taking a stance at that point; open your desk drawer, sharpen your pencil, get your calculator, and do the proper math to try to support theory. You'll find that by doing the simple math, you will always know where you should stand on the curing issue.


There are some books listed here if you have an interest in obtaining some reading materials.
http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4141115&postcount=12

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I saw nothing that struck a nerve Bob, some folks just like to be confrontational.

EyeBurnEverything said:

Well, just got done reading up on the links provided by IamMadMan and it even says that for a very large bird, 5 days. So as i said originally, i did not think 2 days would be enough.

Turkey is thawed , now i just need to figure out how much cure brine i need to make. Turkey is 19lbs , i will be using a 5 gallon bucket.

Also, 10% of the cure brine is 10% of the brine or 10% of the weight of the Turkey? Or is the weight of the cure brine supposed to equal the weight of the Turkey. I am getting myself confused.

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10 percent of the turkey weight and enough brine to completely cover the turkey

He means the hip joint area. In doing them I've found as long as you are in the general area from a couple of different sides it works fine. I will say I've done some without any injection just a longer soak. They turned out fine but would not pass food safety rules... ie don't take advice from someone on the internet.