2 Problems for new Yoder Wichita owner

I got my loaded Wichita in April and I have enjoyed learning it. It can be a but worrisome when it doesn't run like you pictured in your head but I have kept at it and fiddled some.

Mine has the new door which puts the baffle lower, though I do think it could be bigger.

The two issues I have had are getting white smoke and temperature differences side to side.

White smoke:

There have been a couple things that i have done to deal with the white smoke.

• Leaving the door open. I don't like this as I don't think it should work that way.
• I bought a cheap short stand fan. I use this to create breeze into the firebox as I am not rotating into the wind.
• Managing my ash pile. I have found it better to push the ashes deeper into the firebox instead of removing them. There is still heat in it. Also I leave a bed of ash under the fire.
• Split size. I will split down from what I bought. I also cut them in half lengthwise to get a better fit. I keep chunks for spreading into the coal pile as it is getting too small to rebuild it. I may not need to do this much in the future.
• The heat management plate. I moved it back some, back some more and finally back as far as it would go. This is the thing I think Yoder were too clever with and I don't believe it works the way they wanted me to think it worked.
• Replaced the heat management plate with tuning plates. Mine are 6"x18"x16ga. I bought 6 of them, one is angled against the ash deflector, then 3 abutt and then about 1/4 inch gap and a 1/2 inch gap.
• Fire placement. I have been more centered (though biased to the back of the box. If I go to the back right corner I don't get as clean as more centered.

With the ash management and the tuning plates the draw is pretty good. I do find if I push ash too quickly I loose draw and I might see some white smoke. Otherwise it is preheat the next split then when tossed on it lights and I don't have to open the door or open the baffle.

I do want thicker plates as these flex when I try moving them.

Side to side temperature:

I have two chamber probes that are 1/3 the way in from each end and centered under the grates. When I first started this journey I would see as much as 120* difference which is ridiculous. To correct this I have:

• Played with exhaust baffle. Closing it down gets the two probes closer but not even 50* is too much.
• Tipped the heat managemnt plate up. This didn't really help but it was a thought.
• Moved the heat management plate back, and back and back. This for the difference down to 25* which is tolerable, but it also seemed to force the tempurtures down. It was harder to get up to where I wanted to be this way.
• Tuning plates. This sorted the issue, at least thus far. I have had spans of time with 2* or less differences, with differences getting as high at 20*. At times the left (far) end was over the right end. I think this is great. If I open gaps closer to the box it increases the difference which is useful. I need to have more time working this to get a feel for where it should be for the difference I want.

If I had to do it again I would gone bigger (Kingman) cause it is bigger. I was worried we wouldn't be able to get it in the back yard. We ended going through the fence between us and the neighbor (though their backyard and over their patio). An additional 200ish pounds could have been really difficult.

If I didn't go bigger I would go with the counter weight and second shelf but not the plate.

At this point I am pretty thrilled and looking forward to the next cook, just need to get time and figure out what I want to do next.

PSA - don't be an idiot like me!

After getting a new door made with one large low vent (https://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3975222&postcount=210) I was optimistic that I would have this beat. Well, it improved things greatly but this summer I've had a real bear of a time keeping the thing flowing well. Today I was going to try cooking some chicken without the heat management plate. I started pulling everything out and started to give it a good cleaning while I'm at it.

Well, I noticed some gunk inside the stack. Started cleaning...noticed a whole lot more gunk. The horizontal portion right next to the smoke chamber was almost completely blocked with smoker goo. Hmm, when was the last time I cleaned it? Never. In six years. Now it flows spectacularly and my chicken is rolling along at nearly 400 with no drama.

If things aren't flowing well, clean your smokers gang!

Bludawg said:

Split your splits one time. Stuffing to much fuel in the firebox at once disrupts the air flow ( takes up volume for air need for the fire.) So your making up for it by propping the door open. The pit is designed to run on the dampers alone. Control the air, control the fire,control the pit temp. The coal bed is the where you get the heat the bigger the bed the hotter the pit.
This is a 300 deg fire

Click to expand...

This might work for your cooker, but for the Wichita... Door HAS to be open; especially if you want to run at a higher temp.

Things will always be hotter at the firebox side. You just need to learn where the hotspots are and use it to your advantage. Tonight, I put a couple racks of ribs on right in the middle of the chamber. Then, later I added about 8 chicken quarters. They were sizzling the whole time and once they had the color I wanted, I moved them to the left side. Turned out great.

On another note.... The Wichita w/ heat plate is a giant pain in the eass. I would just remove it so that you can get the airflow. Know that the right side will be triple digits hotter, but again... use that to your advantage.

Melt In The Sun said:

Well, I noticed some gunk inside the stack. Started cleaning...noticed a whole lot more gunk. The horizontal portion right next to the smoke chamber was almost completely blocked with smoker goo. Hmm, when was the last time I cleaned it? Never. In six years. Now it flows spectacularly and my chicken is rolling along at nearly 400 with no drama.

If things aren't flowing well, clean your smokers gang!

Click to expand...

Haha! 6 years!

My Wichita has the removable stack, so fortunately I'm looking inside it often when I turn the stack down before putting the cover back on. Mine gets big curly pieces of black tar flaking off after a number of cooks, and I poke a stick down there to break them off. You definitely need this stack clear to make the Wichita sing.

BTW, the online photos for all the Yoder backyard offsets now show the new lowered intake vent: Cheyenne, Wichita, Loaded Wichita, Kingman, Durango 20", Durango 24". Still no mention of the "improvement" anywhere, and the downloadable dimensional drawings don't reflect the change yet.

The new LSG offsets apparently don't use any tuning plates to achieve even temperatures. I don't know if that was a cost-cutting measure, or if LSG changed their position on tuning plates. They used to brag on them. It's admirable if they managed to get even temperatures without them, but what if you want to create a cool or hot spot? I didn't see an option to add them on their site.

From the LSG site:

• Revolutionary new heat distribution system cooks top down with our “cross flow” technology. This system doesn’t need any plates or diffusers to get even grate temps

Long review of the Yoder Durango 24". Interesting takeaways:

• Finicky fire management. Owner props the firebox lid partially open while new logs are getting started.
• Uneven temperatures.
• Back-drafts when firebox door is opened.
• Not used often since buying Horizon 30" Marshal.
• Owner posted review because he couldn't find much online feedback on that cooker before he bought it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gOiX0mZZdg

The 24" Durango featured in the video is about 4 years old, so it does not have the new lowered intake vent.




This is the photo currently shown on ATBBQ, with the new lowered intake:

slamkeys said:

Long review of the Yoder Durango 24". Interesting takeaways:

• Finicky fire management. Owner props the firebox lid partially open while new logs are getting started.
• Uneven temperatures.
• Back-drafts when firebox door is opened.
• Not used often since buying Horizon 30" Marshal.
• Owner posted review because he couldn't find much online feedback on that cooker before he bought it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gOiX0mZZdg

The 24" Durango featured in the video is about 4 years old, so it does not have the new lowered intake vent.

This is the photo currently shown on ATBBQ, with the new lowered intake:

Click to expand...

Here's my take on the Yoder designs, but first, that guy in the video needs to build a way bigger fire to keep all that steel hot.

They appear to have been based solely on the original Oklahoma joes, the heavy duty ones! and in some cases have an even smaller smokestack.

The Joe's were never intended to be ran with the fire doors all shut up like that.
The idea is you get a big old fire going with large sticks, close up the back door with the pinwheel open and regulate the temperature with the top door, propping it open with a special spacer, that has increments on it.


This is how we operate the Cactus Jack smokers here in Europe (heavy duty 7mm steel units), and that's the way people are still trained, it makes sense, large fire lots of air. You even get cast iron cooking pots to hang over the firebox to take advantage of the upwards heat, if you run the door wide open.

Side note: Cactus Jack was the first European BBQ brand, many years ago, that got the licensing from the Orginal Oklahoma Joe to make that design smoker.





But over time new smokers have come on the market that draft so well that they can be all shut up with small airflow, lone star etc, but the above method seems to have got lost.

Also, the Lone star grillz cross-flow technology is the same as what we run in the Cactus Jack longhorn and have for many years.
The idea is it shoots the heat vertical into the cook chamber, while still allowing a small amount directly down, the smoker fills with heat top down, and is exhausted out the stack that's mounted grate level, creating very even temps.



So long story short, try running the yoders this way and see how things improve. Offsets will never be fuel efficient but each design has it's intended use.

go with the flow

With the Lone Star, Yoder, Horizon, Old Country and some others is there still a general consensus that the Horizons still flow "best" for the Offset style?

This channel posted a video of a Loaded Wichita being modified, but the follow-up video demonstrating its performance never got posted, so I'm wondering if the modifications were successful or not.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpCdKMFsZlU

His comments included:
1. The firebox was a little high, the upper vent was too high, and the fire grate needed to be removed completely.
2. The heat management plate needed to be removed. He actually kept the lip, but cut off the rest of the plate with the holes.
3. The smokestack needed to be larger and lower.

The resulting monstrosity looks odd due to the huge smokestack, but will it work better? I'm not sure what method they used to calculate the smokestack sizing. :noidea:

I saw that "Quetorials" video a couple weeks ago and thought about posting it in this thread, but since I got rid of my Cheyenne I don't really have a dog in this fight anymore. I liked the modifications they made and I think it will work much better, but I can't say for sure. To be fair just about any modification would be an upgrade to the original design.

Love my Yoder. Read this thread twice before buying. I love a challenge.

I have removed my convection plate and added a half round piece of steel by the stack. I also made a 5” stack to improve draw. See photos.

Temps are pretty even across the grate now (usually within 10-15 degrees). Draw is ok but it does still sometimes smokenout if the top of the vent. I have their updated design. Yes I think it needs a few mods but I love it. I might complete the chimney mod listed above but my current solution only required two holes to be drilled in the upper grate bracket.

I’m working on building my next offset which will be similar to the Yoder but fix some of these issues.

Again, for me they aren’t really issues because I like to tinker. I could see how some would be turned off by some things in this thread.

busmania said:

Love my Yoder. Read this thread twice before buying. I love a challenge.

I have removed my convection plate and added a half round piece of steel by the stack. I also made a 5” stack to improve draw. See photos.

Temps are pretty even across the grate now (usually within 10-15 degrees). Draw is ok but it does still sometimes smokenout if the top of the vent. I have their updated design. Yes I think it needs a few mods but I love it. I might complete the chimney mod listed above but my current solution only required two holes to be drilled in the upper grate bracket.

I’m working on building my next offset which will be similar to the Yoder but fix some of these issues.

Again, for me they aren’t really issues because I like to tinker. I could see how some would be turned off by some things in this thread.

Click to expand...

Good mods that sound like they certainly help. People (myself included) were also pretty upset with how Yoder treated them in terms of basically telling us that it was our fault...we were the ones to blame for not using kiln dried wood which was preheated inside the firebox. They deleted posts on their own forums and were close to attacking anybody who said they weren't happy with their cookers drafting abilities.

I'd also add that for the money involved with a Yoder offset that's a pretty hefty sum (especially with shipping involved) to find out that you've got to put more time and money into the cooker to make it function properly. I spent about a year just beating my head against a wall trying to figure out how to cook in the darned thing...just wasn't fun and it was irritating and frustrating at every level. It made BBQ a chore rather than something fun and exciting.

I got the new door damper and it made a marginal improvement at best. I gave the Yoder to a buddy of mine in exchange for some work on my truck. He's an amateur welder / metal worker / "tinkerer" so for him it's a fun little project, probably in a similar style to you. I'm not very mechanically inclined, at all, so the thought of me modding my already expensive cooker to work properly was just out of the question.

Either way I'm glad your cooker is working for you and that's all that really matters. This thread showcased how Yoder treated their customers and how it was glaringly obvious that they had some issues which they weren't willing to address. Slamkeys pushed them, and pushed them hard, for a LONG time and in the end they finally had to admit they were wrong and make an adjustment to their designs.

Yep. I completely get it wild boar. The deletion of posts and such is rediculous. Honestly I think when I bought it 6 months ago I wanted an offset smoker now and didn’t want to wait. Local place sells them. Nothing like a $2k impulse buy! I went into it knowing there were issues that I’d address. Maybe I liked the idea of a challenge. I don’t know. I’ve only had it 6 months and I’m already planning my next build. I hear GREAT things about the kingman so I think I’ll build a replica. Working with a local machine shop now to cut every single piece so all I have to do is weld it together. The whichita will probably then be sold.

Remember to pre-heat your splits before you add them to the fire. This will allow the splits to ignite quicker, keeping the fire hotter and cleaner.

I picked up a 5 yr old kingman about 6 mths ago and couldn't be happier, the thing is a beast. Runs 250 all day with a split every 45 mins or so. Was concerned when I first got it, coming from having bge for the last 10+ yrs, but with the great advice here it was a walk in the park. Can even push it to 350 if I needed to with ease.

busmania said:

I have their updated design.

Click to expand...

How did the updated design perform before you modded it?

sneacho said:

How did the updated design perform before you modded it?

Click to expand...

Being my first “real” stick burner (other than my homemade 33 gallon reverse flow) take this with a grain of salt.

I think the updated design performed exactly as this thread explains. Even with my mods and even when stock, I still have occasional smoke coming from the top of my intake vent. I’ve decided this doesn’t bother me as I did make a new door with only the lower part of the vent (but twice as big) but I never use this door.

At stock, I still had wild temp differences left to right which is to be expected to some extent but I couldn’t live with 50-100 degree differences.

I was told yesterday the updated design also included a dropped firebox? Is that true? Can someone measure the old one to compare? It doesn’t ‘look’ like the firebox on mine is any lower.

With the knowledge of this thread I immediately started making changes when I bought it. But then I took a step back and ran 100% stock for 10-15 cooks so I could learn its quirks. Then I started nodding again. I have yet to do anything that requires major surgery. I’ve cut off the door and made a new one (now both can slide off and on as I wish), I made my exhaust mod seen above, I’ve tried what seems like hundreds of deflector plate locations, I’ve got firebrick in the firebox, I’ve made 3 different chimneys, and more that I’ve definitely forgotten.

Thanks. Useful info. I hadn’t yet found any comments about the new design.

Hmmm, no expert but my takeaway? Pass on the Yoder....

I got the Yoder Cheyenne about 6 months ago.
At first I had the same problems for keeping a clean fire with the fire door closed. So I kept the firedoor open and still had some great food!
But off course I wanted to keep a clean fire with the door closed so I could manage the fire door and chimney vents.
So I kept trying, and what really worked was to cut my logs smaller and in stead of placing a piece of wood flat on the
burnig coals, I placed it straight up in an angle, so the fire could go up and the wood didn't kill the burning coals.
I run a clean fire with the fire door closed al the time!
So, in my opinion, Yoder was right al the time to build a small fire.