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Old 09-22-2020, 11:17 PM   #1
Whumpa
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Default Help me understand

I have over the last couple of years heard or read of people talking about the different taste/smoke profiles from different pellet grills. Now, I’m not saying they are wrong but I don’t understand how there could be that vast of a difference. Pellet grills all work on the same principle. Wood pellets are fed into a burn pot. Fresh air is forced into it and the pellets are ignited and burn producing heat and smoke. If grill brand A, B, and C are burning the same brand and type of pellets shouldn’t the profile be the same or so close as to be indistinguishable? I am talking about grills of the same or close to the same size. And also cooking at the same temps, and ability to maintain temps. The only food I have eaten has come off of my pellet grill. So I really have zero first hand experience in this matter. Some of you more knowledgeable on this, please educate me.
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Old 09-22-2020, 11:38 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whumpa View Post
I have over the last couple of years heard or read of people talking about the different taste/smoke profiles from different pellet grills. Now, I’m not saying they are wrong but I don’t understand how there could be that vast of a difference. Pellet grills all work on the same principle. Wood pellets are fed into a burn pot. Fresh air is forced into it and the pellets are ignited and burn producing heat and smoke. If grill brand A, B, and C are burning the same brand and type of pellets shouldn’t the profile be the same or so close as to be indistinguishable? I am talking about grills of the same or close to the same size. And also cooking at the same temps, and ability to maintain temps. The only food I have eaten has come off of my pellet grill. So I really have zero first hand experience in this matter. Some of you more knowledgeable on this, please educate me.
Not that I know more, as likely I don’t, but my understanding is that it comes down to the airflow pattern. This, in turn is influenced by the flow from the burn pot.
Other than that, and maybe more important, is the pellet controller. To generate smoke, you need a low temperature. The controller needs to monitor and control the pot temperature closely, and produce the correct amount of smoke from the burn pot.
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Old 09-23-2020, 06:22 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by PullinPork View Post
Not that I know more, as likely I don’t, but my understanding is that it comes down to the airflow pattern. This, in turn is influenced by the flow from the burn pot.
Other than that, and maybe more important, is the pellet controller. To generate smoke, you need a low temperature. The controller needs to monitor and control the pot temperature closely, and produce the correct amount of smoke from the burn pot.
This ^
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Old 09-23-2020, 07:05 AM   #4
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I’m not an expert but do think there are variables that will impact smoke flavor. I just took a risk and bought a Weber Smoke Fire because I wasn’t happy with the flavor produced by my Grilla Silverback which is a pretty traditional design.
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Old 09-23-2020, 07:13 AM   #5
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I've been using hickory Cookin'pellets in my 590 and I have to say, I'm pretty impressed.

I run it at 200° for a couple of hours, then ramp up to my regularly scheduled program.

All good, nice and smoky enough for ME.
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Old 09-23-2020, 07:24 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by PatAttack View Post
I've been using hickory Cookin'pellets in my 590 and I have to say, I'm pretty impressed.

I run it at 200° for a couple of hours, then ramp up to my regularly scheduled program.

All good, nice and smoky enough for ME.
^^^ This is a big difference. I see a lot of videos and people use pellet grills as grills. I do what Pat is talking about, use mine as a smoker. This produces a much more smoke. Also, I know Rec Teq's fans cut off far more frequent at less temps to allow the smoke to stay in the grill longer. I have seen people speak about MAKs and how their fans run at variable speeds depending upon the temperature. I feel like these 2 functions can increase the amount of smoke produced. However, I feel like the cook and pellets will have a far greater amount of control over getting more or less smoke based upon how they use the product.
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Old 09-23-2020, 07:32 AM   #7
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Airflow pattern has already been mentioned, and that certainly plays a large part in the potential for flavoring agents from the smoke to come into contact with the meat. Something else to consider is how aggressive the fan is and how complete the combustion is of the pellets in the burn pot. As I understand (could be wrong) most pellet grills have an aggressive fan to 100% fully ignite those pellets as quickly as possible. There are other pellet grills which are outliers (again, as I understand) who utilize a much less aggressive fan, to allow for the pellets to smolder for a short period of time before fully igniting. The smoldering pellets will produce more smoke (not necessarily more flavorful smoke) and for some people any smoke is good flavor.

This may be a bit controversial, but I fully believe that pellet grills lack smoke flavor because pellets are completely dry. When you run an offset smoker the wood is still between 15-20% water by weight, so when you start burning up those wood splits you're getting an absolutely insane amount of moisture which is forced through the cook chamber. In my cabinet smoker I use charcoal and wood chunks, but I also have a water pan directly over the hot coals which boils off some water. I'll do 100+Lbs of meat and burn off roughly 12Lbs of water in the water pan during a 10 hour cook.

Meat science tells us that smoke doesn't penetrate the meat and instead the smoke is a surface reaction. It also tells us that smoke sticks to things which are wet, so the more moisture you get through the cook chamber (and onto the meat) the more smoke flavor you'll get on your meat. If the pellets are almost completely devoid of water it's easy to figure out why pellets give off less flavor than wood burning cookers.

A YouTuber named Mad Scientist BBQ did an interesting video about the process of wood burning and converting into flavoring molecules. He also did a theoretical calculation of the amount of water going through an offset smoker due to wood combusting...I can't recall the exact amount but it was shockingly high. He also did a test with pellets where he baked out all the moisture from them and I think they had about 5% by weight...compare that to roughly 15-20% you'll see in moderately seasoned wood.

Here's the videos if you're interested.
"Why Do Pellet Smokers Produce Less Flavor Than Offsets?"

"Do Water Pans Improve BBQ?"
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Last edited by SmoothBoarBBQ; 09-23-2020 at 08:28 AM.. Reason: Inaccurate pellet weight %
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Old 09-23-2020, 07:38 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetHeatBBQnSC View Post
^^^ This is a big difference. I see a lot of videos and people use pellet grills as grills. I do what Pat is talking about, use mine as a smoker. This produces a much more smoke. Also, I know Rec Teq's fans cut off far more frequent at less temps to allow the smoke to stay in the grill longer. I have seen people speak about MAKs and how their fans run at variable speeds depending upon the temperature. I feel like these 2 functions can increase the amount of smoke produced. However, I feel like the cook and pellets will have a far greater amount of control over getting more or less smoke based upon how they use the product.
It's all controlled by the PID, so the fans cut off to stop the temperature from increasing, and not necessarily to "keep the smoke in the grill longer." I had the Rec Tec BFG for a few months and when I ran the "Xtra Smoke" feature it did nothing but cover the food and entire cook chamber in soot. Shockingly I felt that the smoke still smelled pleasant when I was cooking at that low of a temp, but it gave a bitter taste to the meat and left my cook chamber absolutely saturated in soot. That fan cutting off for such a long period of time was such a poor design...even Traeger had to essentially start a new line of cookers to get away from the negative attention of this feature on their Timberline series.
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Old 09-23-2020, 08:47 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothBoarBBQ View Post
It's all controlled by the PID, so the fans cut off to stop the temperature from increasing, and not necessarily to "keep the smoke in the grill longer." I had the Rec Tec BFG for a few months and when I ran the "Xtra Smoke" feature it did nothing but cover the food and entire cook chamber in soot. Shockingly I felt that the smoke still smelled pleasant when I was cooking at that low of a temp, but it gave a bitter taste to the meat and left my cook chamber absolutely saturated in soot. That fan cutting off for such a long period of time was such a poor design...even Traeger had to essentially start a new line of cookers to get away from the negative attention of this feature on their Timberline series.
I could see that happening on a large grill like that.

I have not experienced it in my 590, yet.
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Old 09-23-2020, 09:19 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothBoarBBQ View Post
It's all controlled by the PID, so the fans cut off to stop the temperature from increasing, and not necessarily to "keep the smoke in the grill longer."
You are correct poor choice of wording. I guess I should have said it results in the smoke staying in the grill longer. Not necessarily the reason, but more like a result of.
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Old 09-23-2020, 09:41 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothBoarBBQ View Post
...snip
This may be a bit controversial, but I fully believe that pellet grills lack smoke flavor because pellets are completely dry. When you run an offset smoker the wood is still between 15-20% water by weight, so when you start burning up those wood splits you're getting an absolutely insane amount of moisture which is forced through the cook chamber.... snip
I agree with you SmoothBoarBBQ.

I am guessing here, it is possible that there are other volatiles that contribute to flavor is lost too.

Cooking on the MAK I will sometimes add a small water pan to add water back to the cook.

I am not sure it does anything other than affect the formation of bark.

I've been thinking of putting a wood chunk on top of the flame diverter in the FlameZone to see if the family can detect a difference.
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Old 09-23-2020, 11:02 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marquez View Post
I agree with you SmoothBoarBBQ.

I am guessing here, it is possible that there are other volatiles that contribute to flavor is lost too.

Cooking on the MAK I will sometimes add a small water pan to add water back to the cook.

I am not sure it does anything other than affect the formation of bark.

I've been thinking of putting a wood chunk on top of the flame diverter in the FlameZone to see if the family can detect a difference.
I had lack of decent smoke flavor in my pit boss 820 until I bought a heavy-D stick burning heat diffuser. You put chunks or splits of smoke wood in two prefferated chambers that sit next to the burn pot. Now my pit boss puts decent smoke on everything. https://smokedaddyinc.com/product/th...heat-diffuser/

In the past I tried pellet burn tubes in an attempt to add more smoke flavor and it made absolutely no difference. I also tried Lumberjack pellets With no real difference.

This makes me think that it is a combination of the airflow and the pellets.

Cheap cookers like my pit boss have the fan on full blast, I understand the better pellet grills like the MAK regulate the fan a lot better.
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Old 09-23-2020, 11:05 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoCoPk360 View Post
I’m not an expert but do think there are variables that will impact smoke flavor. I just took a risk and bought a Weber Smoke Fire because I wasn’t happy with the flavor produced by my Grilla Silverback which is a pretty traditional design.
How is the smokefire working out for you when it comes to putting smoke flavor into beef or pork?
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Old 09-23-2020, 11:29 AM   #14
gtsum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothBoarBBQ View Post
Airflow pattern has already been mentioned, and that certainly plays a large part in the potential for flavoring agents from the smoke to come into contact with the meat. Something else to consider is how aggressive the fan is and how complete the combustion is of the pellets in the burn pot. As I understand (could be wrong) most pellet grills have an aggressive fan to 100% fully ignite those pellets as quickly as possible. There are other pellet grills which are outliers (again, as I understand) who utilize a much less aggressive fan, to allow for the pellets to smolder for a short period of time before fully igniting. The smoldering pellets will produce more smoke (not necessarily more flavorful smoke) and for some people any smoke is good flavor.

This may be a bit controversial, but I fully believe that pellet grills lack smoke flavor because pellets are completely dry. When you run an offset smoker the wood is still between 15-20% water by weight, so when you start burning up those wood splits you're getting an absolutely insane amount of moisture which is forced through the cook chamber. In my cabinet smoker I use charcoal and wood chunks, but I also have a water pan directly over the hot coals which boils off some water. I'll do 100+Lbs of meat and burn off roughly 12Lbs of water in the water pan during a 10 hour cook.

Meat science tells us that smoke doesn't penetrate the meat and instead the smoke is a surface reaction. It also tells us that smoke sticks to things which are wet, so the more moisture you get through the cook chamber (and onto the meat) the more smoke flavor you'll get on your meat. If the pellets are almost completely devoid of water it's easy to figure out why pellets give off less flavor than wood burning cookers.

A YouTuber named Mad Scientist BBQ did an interesting video about the process of wood burning and converting into flavoring molecules. He also did a theoretical calculation of the amount of water going through an offset smoker due to wood combusting...I can't recall the exact amount but it was shockingly high. He also did a test with pellets where he baked out all the moisture from them and I think they had about 5% by weight...compare that to roughly 15-20% you'll see in moderately seasoned wood.

Here's the videos if you're interested.
"Why Do Pellet Smokers Produce Less Flavor Than Offsets?"

"Do Water Pans Improve BBQ?"


I agree with above. I’ve had a memphis elite, yoder ys640 and a gmg Davey Crockett. Different airflow and cooker design does seem to affect the end result. The yoder has a little more smoke flavor than the Memphis imo...the Memphis was also dual walled and used far less pellets...less pellets burned equals less smoke....I think the exhaust design and programming of a Mak is what gives it a more smokey flavor than most pellets grills...the little skits in the back and mounted lower force the smoke to hang out longer and be in control tact with the food longer than the straight shot out of a yoder or Memphis imo. Also think the water in wood splits results in more smoke than pellets as mentioned above.

None of my pellet cookers gave me the same result as my M1 burning oak and hickory splits...I used to think the pellets gave me 80-90% of an offset flavor...I was wrong...there is a significant difference


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Old 09-23-2020, 02:35 PM   #15
Whumpa
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Thanks for all your responses fellas. Helps me to understand. Thinking about it and would have to agree that airflow would play a part in it. And shape of cook chamber and style of exhaust would effect airflow. What I did not think about is variable fan speeds.
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