Insulated smokers and clean smoke

Matto6

Knows what a fatty is.
Joined
Aug 21, 2021
Messages
102
Reaction score
31
Points
0
Location
Carmel
There's a lot of seemingly contradictory information on the interwebs about the value of insulation in a smoker, and the importance of clean smoke.

A lot of people love their kamados, but many criticism them for being too well insulated and that they don't burn clean smoke. Many kamado gurus advocate smoking at fairly high temps (275-300) to ensure clean smoke, at which point you get a lot of radiant heat from the deflector below.

But then you have Komodo Kamado, which brags about how they are the most insulated kamado in the planet. And by far the most expensive.

And then you have insulated vertical cabinets. People love them and brag about how well insulated they are and how little charcoal they use. I'm failing to see how these are fundamentally different from a kamado. But I haven't seen anyone criticize them for being too well insulated.

The only difference I can see is that with a vertical cabinet you can arrange the coals in a maze to keep a smaller portion of charcoal burning at once, so it's hotter. Similarly a gravity fed forces the burn area to be concentrated. Whereas in a kamado it burns in its own pattern so it's hard to ensure a small hot fire.

Then you have the new masterbuilt 1050 or char griller 980, which are gravity fed but without any insulation. Are they the cleanest burning smokers of all? Do they produce the best food?

I know that a skilled cook can produce good food on any of the above, but I'm trying to understand the role of insulation and it's pros and cons - and why it seems to get both praise and hate depending on which cooker style you are discussing.
 
Last edited:
Can you get a "clean" smoke from anything but a fire that has access to abundant oxygen? I used to smoke with a WSM (which admittedly produced some decent BBQ) but now that I have a stick burner for the first time I know what "thin blue smoke" looks like. Other more experienced folk may have more input, but to me clean smoke Q has a less heavy, more pure wood flavor. And I don't particularly enjoy the smoke that charcoal briquettes produce. To me, it's artificial (although not as artificial as wood pellets). My $.02. Additionally, FWIW, now that I have used an offset I would never consider using any other type of smoker. I LOVE feeding it logs.
 
Cooking at 275 300. 350. Does the trick. Praise from those that figured it out. Hate from those that can’t make it work.
 
Cooking at 275 300. 350. Does the trick. Praise from those that figured it out. Hate from those that can’t make it work.
That makes sense. But it seems insulation only makes the problem worse. If they had less insulation you wouldn't need to jack up the temps as much to have an equally clean burning fire. The fire would need to burn hot just to keep the smoker at 225-250 or whatever.

Several of the new trendy stick burners are all about high airflow (Franklin, Workhorse, etc). I wonder if this will eventually catch on for charcoal smokers too. A the el-cheapo non-insulated Masterbuilt 1050 / Char Broiler 980 are blazing the trail.
 
I've been thinking about the same thing. Seems to me that assuming that free burning wood produces the best kind of smoke, insulation that holds heat, keeps the system from needing more heat and that retards any burning, at least in a ceramic type cooker. In a case like that, wood just smolders. This is one of the reasons I sold my Primo.
With the air-gap insulated MB560 type smokers, air is actually flowing pretty freely, so it's easy to keep a split burning in the ash box, maybe not as well as in a stick burner though, but not bad.
 
I made some of the worst food ever on a backwoods chubby I had. But I could pit my beer on top and it would heat. Lol.
 
I have heard these issues as well with “clean smoke”. I can say My first kamado style was a BGE and I got dirty smoke time to time but mainly my inexperience on managing fire. I had a pitmaker vault I used in competition and not once did I have dirty smoke issue. Always ran 250-275

I now have a Komodo Kamado ( yes they are the best kamado in world hands down) and never experience dirty smoke. It runs with bottom and top barely cracked for 275. Now I will say my fire management has changed since my days on BGE so I believe it is more based on ones ability to manage fire and the cookers ability to draft properly vs the level of insulation they have


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I now have a Komodo Kamado ( yes they are the best kamado in world hands down) and never experience dirty smoke. It runs with bottom and top barely cracked for 275. Now I will say my fire management has changed since my days on BGE so I believe it is more based on ones ability to manage fire and the cookers ability to draft properly vs the level of insulation they have

Interesting. I'm still trying to figure out what is the magic about a Komodo Kamado that makes them able to burn so little charcoal and not put out ****ty tasting food.

This is part is what confused me about whether insulation and clean burning charcoal actually matters.
 
Harry Soo competes with WSM's. I've cooked on a WSM since 2002 and I always got white billowy smoke until the wood chunks burned up. What Harry does differently than I did for a lot of years, is he cooks at 275 and uses premium lump charcoal.


I found a MB560 priced at $250 at Walmart last January. I bought it just to see about GF for myself. I expected a lot of white billowy smoke. Got none of that, its all blue thin. And it has great air flow, primarily because it has a fan blowing on the coals.


A few months ago, I did a comparison cook of ribs on the 560 and on my stick burner. Everything the same except the smoker. There was a definite diff in flavor. I prefer the stick burner but I won't say one was better than the other. Some people prefer the flavor of charcoal/chunk.


Here's the ribs from that cook, the rib in the middle is MB560, the other two stick burner and one of which, was a duroc rib and the other a Sams commodity rib. Only caveat is I might not have gotten enough smoke on the MB560 rib. I probably should've fed more wood to the ash bin. It did not get good color.


zthPXOQ.jpg
 
My insulated cabinet is a great cooker. I get really close to my stick burner on it. To me the secret is a maze and small chunks. Lots of small chunks vs 3-4 big chunks. I hate the term "fist size chunks". They don't burn efficiently. The small hot fire in the maze allows me to run with more oxygen vs closing the intake/exhaust completely to keep temps down. Been doing it this way since 2014. Never use water either.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk
 
My insulated cabinet is a great cooker. I get really close to my stick burner on it. To me the secret is a maze and small chunks. Lots of small chunks vs 3-4 big chunks. I hate the term "fist size chunks". They don't burn efficiently. The small hot fire in the maze allows me to run with more oxygen vs closing the intake/exhaust completely to keep temps down. Been doing it this way since 2014. Never use water either.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

Exactly what pjtexas said, small chunks for complete combustion and a small fire for more oxygen. I'd venture to say I get results just as good if not better than a stick burner with my IVC.
 
small fire for more oxygen.

And this is not something you can do in a kamado because you can't build a maze?

What about a gravity fed? It seems their design keeps a relatively small amount burning at any one time. And there's less radiant heat going up into the cook chamber.
 
And this is not something you can do in a kamado because you can't build a maze?

What about a gravity fed? It seems their design keeps a relatively small amount burning at any one time. And there's less radiant heat going up into the cook chamber.

I don't own a gravity fed unit but I have a friend that does.
The bottom rack in his unit runs significantly hotter than the rest of the racks making the bottom rack just about useless. He also adds chunks of wood to the ash pan every once in awhile, his temps will spike a bit when opening the firebox door to add the chunks. He claims he hasn't had much success when adding chunks in the chute as he's unable to control when or how they might enter the burn chamber. The gravity fed units seem like a keen idea to me but in the end I chose a reverse flow IVC.
I'll never run out of fuel no matter how big my cook is and I can place the wood in various spots in my fuel maze to control the smoke profile I'm looking for..
 
I don't own a gravity fed unit but I have a friend that does.

The bottom rack in his unit runs significantly hotter than the rest of the racks making the bottom rack just about useless. He also adds chunks of wood to the ash pan every once in awhile, his temps will spike a bit when opening the firebox door to add the chunks. He claims he hasn't had much success when adding chunks in the chute as he's unable to control when or how they might enter the burn chamber. The gravity fed units seem like a keen idea to me but in the end I chose a reverse flow IVC.

I'll never run out of fuel no matter how big my cook is and I can place the wood in various spots in my fuel maze to control the smoke profile I'm looking for..
I had a gravity feed. It was easy to run but I really preferred the flavor from my insulated cabinet. My GF had a better design and the bottom rack was only 20-25° hotter.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk
 
I had a gravity feed. It was easy to run but I really preferred the flavor from my insulated cabinet.

Thanks.

Were you able to determine why the cabinet produced better flavor? And in what way was it better?
 
The bottom rack in my Limo Jr. is at the most 10-15 degrees warmer below 250, and maybe 15- 20 degrees above 250 and mostly to the side near the fire. It has a fairly large area below the first rack that I think evens out the temp. I run mine differently, for different cooks, but for something like a brisket, I do add chunks of wood in the charcoal chute and also put some in the ash pan early in the cook. The Limo has inch thick insulation, and the Fireboard controller keeps it humming within a degree or two at whatever I set the temp to (275 for brisket). I can’t tell when it is burning the wood chunks or just charcoal in the chute. Just try and space out the chunks so it will burn one occasionally. It recovers fairly quickly if I open the main cook chamber, and I don’t see a spike or dip opening the fire chamber door or charcoal door, unless I leave either open for a longer time than normal. It has pretty good airflow through it, and I am more than pleased with the results I get off it.
 
Last edited:
Thanks.

Were you able to determine why the cabinet produced better flavor? And in what way was it better?

The cabinet seemed to have a more humid environment. The GF always seemed to have a little bit less wood flavor and a little more charcoal flavor. I was able to run the cabinet a little more open and could control the wood chunks better with the maze.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk
 
Interesting. I'm still trying to figure out what is the magic about a Komodo Kamado that makes them able to burn so little charcoal and not put out ****ty tasting food.

This is part is what confused me about whether insulation and clean burning charcoal actually matters.


I honestly cant tell you but I know build quality is far superior to traditional kamados. Outside of ceramic they use a crushed layer of shells to act like insulation. Then it is a unique grouting that was developed by Nasa that expands when heated. Tiles are then laid on top. All the SS hinges etc are built into the ceramic.

As far as cooking everything but brisket I cant tell a difference between Komodo and my offset. Brisket is just so much better on an offset. Much better bark that I cant get to develop on a kamado. Many times when cooking on Komodo there will be no visual smoke coming out for long period of time

My story with my KK is pretty unique as I paid $250 for it. You can view my rebuild on KK forum and what I had to go through to get it to the below condition

f51bc027ac085ce803bf6f50033c8037.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I honestly cant tell you but I know build quality is far superior to traditional kamados.

I hear you on the quality. No contest there.

The thing I don't get is that I've never heard someone say "if only my kamado joe were more well insulated it would make better food". In fact there is a trend toward less insulated kamados, and a growing mentality to cook in a way to work around kamados being so well insulated (cool at higher temps, etc).
 
Back
Top