Pit Builder Beef

SkaterSmoker

SkaterSmoker

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*Please note I’m speculating, and may be way off, but I’m truly curious as a future customer*

Is there some hidden pit builder beef between Shirley and Workhorse? The new Shirley direct flow is an almost identical clone of the Workhorse 1975. I may be wrong, but an employee from Shirley posted this in a FB group regarding their new straight flow pit:

“Comparing apples to Apples I’d say we nailed the design on that mug…. That refinery chemistry … math… and process chemistry did not suck one bit!!!!! It all about… suction discharge and head pressure.. did not cost me 20,000$$$ either!!!!!”

I believe the apples to apples references a Workhorse FB post from March (see below), and also the $$$ Workhorse spent on air flow studies:

“If you’re comparing apples to apples, nothing compares to the #backyardbbq #smoker of #workhorsepits We’ve priced our #offsetsmoker in the 1/4 wall market, however every 1975 boasts 3/8” (.375) wall thickness and every 1957 or 1969 boasts a 11/32 (.344) wall thickness. #applestoapples”

I know, I know this is drama, but I’m curious as I’ve already purchased a Workhorse, and planning to purchase a Shirley next. There’s a lot of social media drama surrounding Shirley right now with the deletion of most of their FB groups. To be honest, the new Shirley FB group is still filled with drama and it’s kind of off-putting as a future customer.
 
When you read my reply below, realize that I own a Shirley 24x36 and am getting in touch with Paul right now to build me another.

I doubt Shirley Fab could care less that the Direct Flow Pit that Paul recently completed looks similar to a Workhorse 1975. He openly admitted that there is a growing market for Direct Flow Pits that he told Tyler they should try and be a part of. I think its as simple as that. The fact that the Shirley "Direct Flow" looks very much like a Workhorse 1975 is probably no coincidence.......just how different can you make a Pit based on 24" Diameter Pipe and still have it work??

I do see some things I like about Workhorse that wasn't on the first Shirley.....like the Cowboy Firepit option, but it wouldn't surprise me to see that on a Shirley too. Its not proprietary/patented, etc. OTOH, I do like the way the stack on the Shirley folded and I know the weld and finish quality on any Shirley will be second to no one.

IF I had wanted a direct flow pit, the Workhorse 1975 would be sitting on my Patio right now instead of a Shirley 24x36. However, I wanted a Reverse Flow and decided on a Shirley. Now that I've used it for several years, I also want one with a Warmer and different cook chamber configuration. Great thing is that I can get that from Shirley and use my 24x36 for the 2-3 years I'll be on the waiting list.

I'm glad to see both Shirley and Workhorse being successful, especially when it seems raw materials may be hard to source on a regular basis. Your choice as to where to spend your $$$ and you won't go wrong with either.
 
People see the collector and think it's the same pit, just like they see the elbow from the Austin Smoke Works pit and think every pit builder that has one is the same. There are a lot of differences between each of them in design. I think that's great and gives people the opportunities to pick and choose, and maybe get a builder that's closer to them. Everyone cooks differently and you can get something that fits your style and the features you value.

That said, I think Paul Shirley said some things that referenced Workhorse pits indirectly but I didn't see those things as attacks. Only weirdos like us that obsess over these details would pick up on it.
 
cdhbrad said:
When you read my reply below, realize that I own a Shirley 24x36 and am getting in touch with Paul right now to build me another.

I doubt Shirley Fab could care less that the Direct Flow Pit that Paul recently completed looks similar to a Workhorse 1975. He openly admitted that there is a growing market for Direct Flow Pits that he told Tyler they should try and be a part of. I think its as simple as that. The fact that the Shirley "Direct Flow" looks very much like a Workhorse 1975 is probably no coincidence.......just how different can you make a Pit based on 24" Diameter Pipe and still have it work??

I do see some things I like about Workhorse that wasn't on the first Shirley.....like the Cowboy Firepit option, but it wouldn't surprise me to see that on a Shirley too. Its not proprietary/patented, etc. OTOH, I do like the way the stack on the Shirley folded and I know the weld and finish quality on any Shirley will be second to no one.

IF I had wanted a direct flow pit, the Workhorse 1975 would be sitting on my Patio right now instead of a Shirley 24x36. However, I wanted a Reverse Flow and decided on a Shirley. Now that I've used it for several years, I also want one with a Warmer and different cook chamber configuration. Great thing is that I can get that from Shirley and use my 24x36 for the 2-3 years I'll be on the waiting list.

I'm glad to see both Shirley and Workhorse being successful, especially when it seems raw materials may be hard to source on a regular basis. Your choice as to where to spend your $$$ and you won't go wrong with either.
Click to expand...

2-3 years??
 
None of the FB groups are run by the Shirley family. The ones that were closed recently had nothing to do with Shirley, but more to do with the person that ran them deciding to close them down.

You’re reading far too much into the FB drama.

Shirley smokers don’t need to have a “beef” with anyone. They make the best smokers on the market.. period.

When you’re the best, people take shots at ya.
 
While I have no doubt that the comments made by the Shirley's I've seen on the FB groups over the years are well-intended, they could certainly benefit from the help of a marketing or PR consultant to make sure messages being published are clear and consistent. Just my $.02 that no one asked for. FWIW, if I were to ever by a stick burner, it would be a Shirley.
 
SirPorkaLot said:
Shirley smokers don’t need to have a “beef” with anyone. They make the best smokers on the market.. period.

When you’re the best, people take shots at ya.
Click to expand...

Exactly, so that's why it seemed strange for Shirley to take a shot at Workhorse, and it seemed counter productive to their brand and what they stand for, so I assumed there must be underlying "beef".
 
Plenty of pit builders around and plenty of options out there means good things for us! I like my workhorse and would like a Shirley too I am sure. The workhorse comes in at a very, very attractive price point…be interesting to see where the Shirley straight flow comes in…I would venture a guess it will be higher cost…but I bet the fit and finish and welds are superior on the Shirley (not that they are bad on my workhorse, but they are not Shirley level welds IMO). Did seem odd that the comment was made about fluid dynamics, etc but not a big deal to me either way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
gtsum said:
Did seem odd that the comment was made about fluid dynamics, etc but not a big deal to me either way.
Click to expand...

I heard that comment too in one of the videos and didn't think it was big deal, more of a brag from Paul - which is well deserved. Then I saw the "apples to apples" thing a few times and then this, and started to wonder. I know I'm way over thinking it. It's probably just Shirley voicing their confidence, superiority and experience, while at the same time giving their FB followers a smile of pride. I personally like when the pit builders support each other, and I see it frequently, but I get the competition part.
 
I think you're reading too much into this, MJ.

Paul is not the person to take "shots" at anyone.

He certainly is a no frills, no BS, what you see is what you get straight up man of honor.

So is his son, Tyler.

He is one helluva human being and I am proud to know the man and his family.
 
SkaterSmoker said:
............ Then I saw the "apples to apples" thing a few times and then this, and started to wonder. ..........
Click to expand...

Watch a few of Paul's "Build Videos" on YouTube when he's getting ready to deliver a new cooker to a customer and you'll soon hear him say "apples to apples" when comparing the work Shirley does to most anyone else in the industry.
It's his way of saying "do your homework/due diligence" when you are considering having a Custom Pit built and you'll see what Shirley has to offer". I've never thought he was badmouthing other builders, just proud of the product that Shirley Fabrication is producing.
 
PatAttack said:
I think you're reading too much into this, MJ.

Paul is not the person to take "shots" at anyone.

He certainly is a no frills, no BS, what you see is what you get straight up man of honor.

So is his son, Tyler.

He is one helluva human being and I am proud to know the man and his family.
Click to expand...

That's my impression too. Trust me, I thought long and hard before posting this for that very reason. After reading the comments and other perspectives I think it's just an honest brag by Shirley, which is very much deserved with Paul's resume. As a huge Shirley and Workhorse fan myself, my curiosity got the best of me.
 
cdhbrad said:
Watch a few of Paul's "Build Videos" on YouTube when he's getting ready to deliver a new cooker to a customer and you'll soon hear him say "apples to apples" when comparing the work Shirley does to most anyone else in the industry.
It's his way of saying "do your homework/due diligence" when you are considering having a Custom Pit built and you'll see what Shirley has to offer". I've never thought he was badmouthing other builders, just proud of the product that Shirley Fabrication is producing.
Click to expand...

Ahh, that makes sense. It sounds like Workhorse used Paul's trademark line in one of their FB post, and that's why people on Shirley's FB group (not Paul) were posting/screen-shotting it for "bulletin board material". Maybe that is the "beef" haha. Sounds like the the air flow science and $$$$ spent comments were fair game. I apologize and thank you everyone for wasting your time on me!!
 
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