DanB
is One Chatty Farker
Hi All OK so what are your thoughts/idea's on my smoked sausage that went wrong.? What should I do next time?
Thanks DanB.
Thanks DanB.
1st time smoking sausage
- Thread starter DanB
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Whodat985
Full Fledged Farker
I smoke snack sticks in my pellet grill at low temp which is 180 an it never cooks out the fat.Same process as sausage. As far a taste I truly don’t think you added enough of the seasoning mix. Everyone’s taste buds are different. For your liking you may need extra than what’s recommended
Whodat985
Full Fledged Farker
What’s would you say your meat to fat ratio was ?
DanB
is One Chatty Farker
Hi I really don't know the fat to meat ratio was..For the beef I use a chuck roast. Looked pretty fatty to me.
For the pork it was a butt, had plenty of fat.
Next time I trim a packer I'm going to save the fat and load up sausage meat with it.
Thanks Dan
PS Do u think the phosphate had anything to with making the sausages hard?
Of ALL the fresh sausages I've made never had them come out hard.
This is the 1st time I using the phosphate
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All beef or a high ratio of beef to pork sausages are harder to make moist than all pork or a high ratio of pork to beef. I would start with small batch experiments, say 2 or 3 pounds, and not concentrate on casing the sausage. For your experimental links make skinnies, Any remainder you can keep in bulk or make patties for breakfast or sausage burgers. For your pork use ground pork butt, they are a perfect fat ratio, and for your beef buy bulk burger that is confirmed at 70:30.
Since you will be smoking the test run sausage.... Go ahead and add the correct amounts of Cure #1, and AmesPhos mixed with water (remember you were heavy on the phosphates), and make sure the meat is icy cold when you mix all of the ingredients. Add additional icy water until you get a sticky texture, don't follow the recipe amount, go by feel. Icy water is very important. Since you will be smoking it consider using non-fat dry milk 1% to 3%. I use NFDM on almost all of my smoked sausage. It is a binder and holds moisture.
Here is how to make skinnies: Form into 1" to 1.5" logs, wrap in clear plastic, twist one end and tie off. Hold the other end and twist the link and tie off. Let these rest in the fridge about 18 hours.
For cold smoking just use your pellet tube for 2 or 3 hours, block the door open as you want as much draft as possible. Either finish on the smoker or in the oven at 180° (if that's the lowest temp you can staTrt with), until the internal is 155°. These are all beef skinless skinnies... the cure is what makes the color bloom. They will perform almost like a cased sausage.
For reference, this is my typical grind size, if you go finer, re-chill before the second grinding.
DanB
is One Chatty Farker
Hi Since you will be smoking the test run sausage.... Go ahead and add the correct amounts of Cure #1, and AmesPhos mixed with water (remember you were heavy on the phosphates), and make sure the meat is icy cold when you mix all of the ingredients. Add additional icy water until you get a sticky texture, don't follow the recipe amount, go by feel. Icy water is very important. Since you will be smoking it consider using non-fat dry milk 1% to 3%. I use NFDM on almost all of my smoked sausage. It is a binder and holds moisture.
The cure % was on the package instructions.
The Phosphate was recommended by the owner of the company.
Here is what he had to say about the phosphate.
There’s wiggle room, though. The more you use, the more it goes from juicy to bouncy to rubbery, so you may need to experiment with your particular meat mix, but I’d start with about 1%, then adjust up or down. By weight, that’s 4.5 grams per pound. That can be hard to weigh precisely. I would think you’re working in larger batches, and with five pounds or more of meat, you should be able to use volumetric measures, like teaspoons. I can get you a volumetric measure this afternoon if you let me know your batch size.
I did make sure everything was ice cold.The grinder parts & meat were in the freezer.
If there is a next time I will do a small test fry for taste.
Thanks Dan
PS Maybe next time I should just concentrate on just one type.one.
The cure % was on the package instructions.
The Phosphate was recommended by the owner of the company.
Here is what he had to say about the phosphate.
There’s wiggle room, though. The more you use, the more it goes from juicy to bouncy to rubbery, so you may need to experiment with your particular meat mix, but I’d start with about 1%, then adjust up or down. By weight, that’s 4.5 grams per pound. That can be hard to weigh precisely. I would think you’re working in larger batches, and with five pounds or more of meat, you should be able to use volumetric measures, like teaspoons. I can get you a volumetric measure this afternoon if you let me know your batch size.
I did make sure everything was ice cold.The grinder parts & meat were in the freezer.
If there is a next time I will do a small test fry for taste.
Thanks Dan
PS Maybe next time I should just concentrate on just one type.one.
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In the United States the % of Cure #1 is fixed at 0.25%, which is 2.5 grams per kilogram to arrive at 156 parts per million. Using grams is the easiest and most accurate method because measuring spoons can have up to a 25% error. With sodium nitrite making up only 6.25% of Cure #1 you want to be as accurate as possible.
With all due respect there is very little wiggle room with phosphates. The recommended amount is 0.3% to 0.5% (which is 3 grams to 5 grams per kilogram or 2.2 pounds) and I just verified this with three sources, the AmesPhos site, the Marianski brothers book 'Home Production of Quality Meats and Sausage and the "Additives" page from Sausage Maker Supplies.
Anyways, keep us posted on your progress, I hope you get the bugs worked out because it has to be something simple.
DanB
is One Chatty Farker
Hi So what u are saying is the Phosphate is way too much for my 1lb sausage mix.
I don't have a gram scale.I was using teaspoons & tablespoons. So with the cure It will be 0.25% of 1 lb? The cure on the pack direction said 1.1g or a scant 1/4teaspoon.
Thanks Dan
toys4dlr
is one Smokin' Farker
Biggest first thing I would recommend is invest in something like this.
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B08CKZ91TD/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I had a polder scale that only went to 11 lbs and was a pain to adjust from lb to grams. This scale adjusts very easy, goes up to 33 lbs and is under 20 bucks.
Second, invest some time in research, either on here, other forums or buy a couple books. There is a ton of free info out there that will improve your game, just got to seek it out. I personally have nothing against the kits, but I like to develop my own recipes. and I personally try to keep as much artificial or chemical additives out of my homemade sausage. Unless it is needed, like cure #1 or #2, depending what I am making. Heck that is why I am making it, so I get my personal tastes and I know exactly what is in it. The best advice I got was to test fry a little sample, so you can adjust the seasoning if needed. Before you end up with 5 lbs of tasteless sausage. lol
As for the texture, make sure you spend the proper amount of time to develop and extract the proteins via a long enough mix session. It makes a huge difference in the finished product.
Finally, have fun and dont over think it. Some will be great, some will be OK and some will suck, and that is ok. Have fun, its BBQ.
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B08CKZ91TD/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I had a polder scale that only went to 11 lbs and was a pain to adjust from lb to grams. This scale adjusts very easy, goes up to 33 lbs and is under 20 bucks.
Second, invest some time in research, either on here, other forums or buy a couple books. There is a ton of free info out there that will improve your game, just got to seek it out. I personally have nothing against the kits, but I like to develop my own recipes. and I personally try to keep as much artificial or chemical additives out of my homemade sausage. Unless it is needed, like cure #1 or #2, depending what I am making. Heck that is why I am making it, so I get my personal tastes and I know exactly what is in it. The best advice I got was to test fry a little sample, so you can adjust the seasoning if needed. Before you end up with 5 lbs of tasteless sausage. lol
As for the texture, make sure you spend the proper amount of time to develop and extract the proteins via a long enough mix session. It makes a huge difference in the finished product.
Finally, have fun and dont over think it. Some will be great, some will be OK and some will suck, and that is ok. Have fun, its BBQ.
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Yes. The recommended volumetric measurement of phosphates is 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon per pound of ground meat. It needs to be dissolved in water for even distribution. There are food grade phosphates and industrial grades. Food phosphates fall into different blends and product labeling might just say phosphates, or sodium phosphate, or sodium triphosphate blend, or sodium tripolyphosphate (STPP). Since their use is regulated I can't imagine a manufacturer producing a product that would have a different usage recommendations. The exception to this would be a manufactured product containing phosphates, like some competition BBQ injections. One brand might use phosphates on the low end of the recommended scale, and another brand might opt for a different amount.
Cure #1 volumetric measurement is 1 level teaspoon for 5# of meat. So that would equal 1/5 of a teaspoon for 1# of meat. Since most measuring spoon sets don't have that size.... the instructions of "scant 1/4 teaspoon" would be logical. This can be dissolved in water like the phosphates.
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Check out this SAUSAGE page. Near the bottom of the Recipe Secrets page check out the guidelines for spice usage. This chart comes from "Home Production of Quality Meats and Sausages". So when you are putting together a recipe from scratch, or just want to add one or two additional flavors you will have a starting place.
There is a tab for a cure calculator, and a great recipe page
There is a tab for a cure calculator, and a great recipe page
DanB
is One Chatty Farker
HI All Thanks for All the information..My goal here was to make some thing like Texas smoked sausages, where the casing snap and the juices come running out. I used the mixes because I didn't want to add any more spices to the ones I already have.
In my fresh Italian sausages I did use NFDM..I was under the impression that the phosphate should have worked out better.
Well all is not lost, at least I got my feet into smoked sausage.Next time I should be much better results.
Last question could the sausages got soo hard because my smoking temps were too high..They did reach 155 in under 2 hrs. My pellet smoker was set for 180 ,but the probe on grate was reading 200* at times.
Thanks Again
Dan
In my fresh Italian sausages I did use NFDM..I was under the impression that the phosphate should have worked out better.
Well all is not lost, at least I got my feet into smoked sausage.Next time I should be much better results.
Last question could the sausages got soo hard because my smoking temps were too high..They did reach 155 in under 2 hrs. My pellet smoker was set for 180 ,but the probe on grate was reading 200* at times.
Thanks Again
Dan
DanB
is One Chatty Farker
Brisket Fat
Hi All Just picked up a 12lb packer @ Sam's. Now I should have enough fat for my next smoked sausage adventure.Stay tuned.
DanB
Hi All Just picked up a 12lb packer @ Sam's. Now I should have enough fat for my next smoked sausage adventure.Stay tuned.
DanB
scp
is Blowin Smoke!
I would recomend pork fat over beef fat....with pork back fat as the best. I am not an expert...but have read a lot about sausage making...and don't recall anyone recomending beef fat.
DanB
is One Chatty Farker
DanB
is One Chatty Farker
All beef or a high ratio of beef to pork sausages are harder to make moist than all pork or a high ratio of pork to beef. I would start with small batch experiments, say 2 or 3 pounds, and not concentrate on casing the sausage. For your experimental links make skinnies, Any remainder you can keep in bulk or make patties for breakfast or sausage burgers. For your pork use ground pork butt, they are a perfect fat ratio, and for your beef buy bulk burger that is confirmed at 70:30.
Since you will be smoking the test run sausage.... Go ahead and add the correct amounts of Cure #1, and AmesPhos mixed with water (remember you were heavy on the phosphates), and make sure the meat is icy cold when you mix all of the ingredients. Add additional icy water until you get a sticky texture, don't follow the recipe amount, go by feel. Icy water is very important. Since you will be smoking it consider using non-fat dry milk 1% to 3%. I use NFDM on almost all of my smoked sausage. It is a binder and holds moisture.
Here is how to make skinnies: Form into 1" to 1.5" logs, wrap in clear plastic, twist one end and tie off. Hold the other end and twist the link and tie off. Let these rest in the fridge about 18 hours.
For cold smoking just use your pellet tube for 2 or 3 hours, block the door open as you want as much draft as possible. Either finish on the smoker or in the oven at 180° (if that's the lowest temp you can staTrt with), until the internal is 155°. These are all beef skinless skinnies... the cure is what makes the color bloom. They will perform almost like a cased sausage.
For reference, this is my typical grind size, if you go finer, re-chill before the second grinding.
Hi I had some blows out when making links. I think I stuffed to tight, so I made it into one of your skinnies.
Thanks DanB
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Sometimes salt content will tighten the mix between mixing time and stuffing time. A spray bottle with icy water is a good idea so you can mist the meat when loading the barrel if it feels stiff.
DanB
is One Chatty Farker
Sausages
Hi All The sausages have been smoked. Much better then the 1st time, they were much juicy..Even the premix ones came out good this time. I'm going to have cut down on some of the spices. The pan under the grates worked out good kept temps much lower.
Thanks Guys for all your help.
Dan
PS The redish ones where the beef
Hi All The sausages have been smoked. Much better then the 1st time, they were much juicy..Even the premix ones came out good this time. I'm going to have cut down on some of the spices. The pan under the grates worked out good kept temps much lower.
Thanks Guys for all your help.
Dan
PS The redish ones where the beef
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Those links look good. With this whole rodeo you have been through, I'm really glad you finally see a positive, and have a baseline recipe and technique to work with in your quest for the 'Best of the Wurst'. Now from here on out..... it's all fine tuning, which can take 10 years or so, :twitch:
