First try at brisket box input

Blanton · Jun 26, 2019

Bob in Corona said:
I will admit, I'm one that folds them over.

WHY you ask....

So that they FIT in the SMALL squares assigned.

Nothing more nor less to it....

Ribs don’t fit in he squares either :grin::grin:

West River BBQ · Jun 26, 2019

Fat Freddy said:
I think I understand what you are trying to say, however i do not agree. That sound much like the brisket judge who says he will mark down because no fat on brisket or the other that says he will mark down because there IS Fat. Same argument on burnt ends. If you are already thinking the squared off is detracting from appearance then you are going in with pre conceived opinions and are not judging each box on it OWN merits. The rules do NOT say you cant square off so each box should be judged according to the rules and without personal opinions.

I don't think that it is possible to judge without having preconceived opinions. That being said, when judging I try my best to keep an impartial mind. But, how can anyone say that they don't have an idea of the color they would like to see, or the thickness of a slice, whether there is bark, or any number of other things. And how many times has a table of six judges returned differing scores? And this next statement will rile some feathers, it's not about the letter of the law. The rules don't say a lot of things. But here I am on a rant, and so I apologize. My only point is that this is an imperfect system, which I'm willing to accept. Squared ends, not squared, it's subjective.

thirdeye · Jun 27, 2019

rob g said:
... Maybe I missed something but I'm not sure if the bend test is considered a KCBS judging criteria for brisket...

midwest_kc said:
I have also heard that they are instructing judges to use the pull test and mouth feel. Personally, I've never seen a judge lay a slice of brisket over their finger while judging, but apparently some were.

I can confirm that the instruction is for the pull test and mouth feel.

Blanton said:
No, but they do fold them over on the plate to see if it breaks or just folds over. Essentially showing the same thing. Common practice observed and discussed.

Bob in Corona said:
I will admit, I'm one that folds them over.

WHY you ask....

So that they FIT in the SMALL squares assigned.

Nothing more nor less to it....

I usually fold my slices too, but it's mainly so that flavors from one don't transfer to another slice. Watch how judges remove a brisket slice when you only have one free hand. Some pick up slices from near the end, others from near the center. Both of these actions could allow a judge to form an opinion..., but bear in mind you are also getting ready to transfer the box to another, and then wiping your fingers before receiving the next box. I wait until I'm actually judging, and technically... you start judging the meat in space 1 and score it before going to space 2.

Pappy Q · Jun 27, 2019

West River BBQ said:
I don't think that it is possible to judge without having preconceived opinions. That being said, when judging I try my best to keep an impartial mind. But, how can anyone say that they don't have an idea of the color they would like to see, or the thickness of a slice, whether there is bark, or any number of other things. And how many times has a table of six judges returned differing scores? And this next statement will rile some feathers, it's not about the letter of the law. The rules don't say a lot of things. But here I am on a rant, and so I apologize. My only point is that this is an imperfect system, which I'm willing to accept. Squared ends, not squared, it's subjective.

any of us cooks that don't think "subjectivity" is part of judging are just fooling themselves. Subjectivity is a basic human trait that can not be controlled or influenced by any seating program, guidelines etc. For example, you like salt, I don't. Nothing, absolutely nothing can influence my subjectivity on the matter. Any judge who says they can put their personal preferences aside to judge, is crazy and any cook who expects them to do that is even crazier. Bash away....

Fat Freddy · Jun 27, 2019

Pappy Q said:
any of us cooks that don't think "subjectivity" is part of judging are just fooling themselves. Subjectivity is a basic human trait that can not be controlled or influenced by any seating program, guidelines etc. For example, you like salt, I don't. Nothing, absolutely nothing can influence my subjectivity on the matter. Any judge who says they can put their personal preferences aside to judge, is crazy and any cook who expects them to do that is even crazier. Bash away....

No bashing on my part, thats not my nature. However disagreeing is something i do alot. But using salt as the discussion point, I would hope and assume you wouldnt go into a judging tent with the mindset that you know a box is going to be salty so you are going to mark down right away. However when you taste it if it is to salty in your opinion then absolutely you should mark down, and i hope let your reason be known on a comment card. However lets talk chicken, lets say you really want legs and go into tent with mindset that any box that does not have legs you will mark down, that is where my issue lies. As long as at least 6 pieces of chicken are turned in thats what should be judged by. Not adding to rules but going by rules. Now lets say those 6 NON legs look like balls of chicken nuggets then by all means if your opinion is that does not look appetizing then yes mark down but dont add to a rule. i used chicken as an example but pretty much any and all the meats can be used like that. Brisket fat one way or other or burnt ends etc etc, pork maybe you only want sliced, maybe you only want pulled etc, ribs maybe you only want baby backs and have it in your mind you will mark down if it isnt baby backs etc.

All I ask as a cook is you follow the NON subjective rules set for judges. Dont have in your mind that it has to be a certain way. All judges have certain ways they like things, absolutely I am not naive enough to think it doesnt happen, who turns in boxes without garnish? What as a cook I ask is to fairly judge what i turn in following the rules set in place, dont add to or take away from rules based on your preference. Judge my box on its own merits.

Pappy Q · Jun 27, 2019

Fat Freddy said:
No bashing on my part, thats not my nature. However disagreeing is something i do alot. But using salt as the discussion point, I would hope and assume you wouldnt go into a judging tent with the mindset that you know a box is going to be salty so you are going to mark down right away. However when you taste it if it is to salty in your opinion then absolutely you should mark down, and i hope let your reason be known on a comment card. However lets talk chicken, lets say you really want legs and go into tent with mindset that any box that does not have legs you will mark down, that is where my issue lies. As long as at least 6 pieces of chicken are turned in thats what should be judged by. Not adding to rules but going by rules. Now lets say those 6 NON legs look like balls of chicken nuggets then by all means if your opinion is that does not look appetizing then yes mark down but dont add to a rule. i used chicken as an example but pretty much any and all the meats can be used like that. Brisket fat one way or other or burnt ends etc etc, pork maybe you only want sliced, maybe you only want pulled etc, ribs maybe you only want baby backs and have it in your mind you will mark down if it isnt baby backs etc.

All I ask as a cook is you follow the NON subjective rules set for judges. Dont have in your mind that it has to be a certain way. All judges have certain ways they like things, absolutely I am not naive enough to think it doesnt happen, who turns in boxes without garnish? What as a cook I ask is to fairly judge what i turn in following the rules set in place, dont add to or take away from rules based on your preference. Judge my box on its own merits.

I don’t judge, I’m a cook.

airedale · Jun 27, 2019

+1 regards only putting your best in the box. There is only downside to putting too much in the box, so if you put slices in only put in the best 6, not the 8 you have.

There are no judging points available for "quantity."

Burnt at Both Endz · Jun 27, 2019

Pappy Q said:
For those that never turn in burnt ends...do you even cook the point at the comp or just leave it at home? Do you just buy flats or still buy packers?

I buy the packer and cook it together. I use to turn in BE's, but my scores got more consistent when I started leaving them out.

First try at brisket box input

Blanton

is Blowin Smoke!

West River BBQ

Full Fledged Farker

thirdeye

somebody shut me the fark up.

Pappy Q

is Blowin Smoke!

Fat Freddy

is Blowin Smoke!

Pappy Q

is Blowin Smoke!

airedale

is one Smokin' Farker

Burnt at Both Endz

Babbling Farker

Similar threads