Like the idea of competition BBQ, but don’t like what it actually is

el luchador said:

I've never had comp chili but my wife has and she said the winning entry is always sweet?!?

is that what you mean?

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Not sweet but salty. In both BBQ and chili comps you are going for that one bite presentation. After you eat a bowl of comp chili, you stay thirsty the rest of the day. I used to work with a guy that cooked CASI and we had him cook for us once. Nearly everybody had the same reaction to the salt.

Robert

Robert said:

Not sweet but salty. In both BBQ and chili comps you are going for that one bite presentation. After you eat a bowl of comp chili, you stay thirsty the rest of the day. I used to work with a guy that cooked CASI and we had him cook for us once. Nearly everybody had the same reaction to the salt.

Robert

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interesting. I also find it interesting that in that world there is a differentiation between competition chili and eatin chili

http://www.texascooking.com/features/may98ravencompchilivseatin.htm

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...b94-8b7c-2f7d820c13eb/?utm_term=.ee38c190cfe5

I thought that also before we got into competitions. Turns out I was wrong.

We cooked pretty much how we like our BBQ. And got a 2nd place in pork in our first comp.

Haven't really needed to adjust after that, just refine, although I do prefer a brisket with just S&P at home. And I'm a habitual brisket overcooker...

Pork, ribs and chicken we cook with flavor profile that we like, and it has always done well for us. Except chicken, can't really seem to nail it 100%...

I guess all this will turn around when we compete over there, I'm sure you guys have different flavor profiles than Europeans

masque13 said:

BUT, we have not been able to put it all together for all 4 meats in 1 contest and win a grand. will we ever do that? I would like to think so, in time.

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You will, and unless you're in exceptionally stellar competition, 3 will do just fine.
We won our first GC's this year, the second one we cooked 11th Chicken, 1st Ribs, 2nd Pork and 1st Brisket. It took us 10'ish competitions to put it all together for few balanced cooks.

My team mate lives around 95 miles away and we've trained exactly once together, ever.
We live in a country which is separated by water from almost every other country in the world, so we have to fly into competitions.

Our regular competition season is 2-3 competitions a year, since flying in makes everything so much harder to arrange.
We need to borrow everything from somebody else. And we are pretty broke, so that's also that..

I fly with hand luggage only and meat cooler is my hold luggage. We also fly low-cost, sometimes that means multiple changes and other nice things.
And the need to weight our luggage to the gram to avoid overcharges :grin:

The point is this... It's not about the stuff, the cooker, or the size of the rig. Does it help? Sure.

Do you need all that to win? Probably not, but granted it's much nicer to sleep in a campervan than in a sleeping bag with broken zipper. I have only experience of the latter...

I agree, but sadly we live in a High Sugar Content Country. That is the biggest reason for obesity, and the fact is that's what judges today prefer. BBQ Candy for everyone!

rikun said:

You will, and unless you're in exceptionally stellar competition, 3 will do just fine.
We won our first GC's this year, the second one we cooked 11th Chicken, 1st Ribs, 2nd Pork and 1st Brisket. It took us 10'ish competitions to put it all together for few balanced cooks.

My team mate lives around 95 miles away and we've trained exactly once together, ever.
We live in a country which is separated by water from almost every other country in the world, so we have to fly into competitions.

Our regular competition season is 2-3 competitions a year, since flying in makes everything so much harder to arrange.
We need to borrow everything from somebody else. And we are pretty broke, so that's also that..

I fly with hand luggage only and meat cooler is my hold luggage. We also fly low-cost, sometimes that means multiple changes and other nice things.
And the need to weight our luggage to the gram to avoid overcharges :grin:

The point is this... It's not about the stuff, the cooker, or the size of the rig. Does it help? Sure.

Do you need all that to win? Probably not, but granted it's much nicer to sleep in a campervan than in a sleeping bag with broken zipper. I have only experience of the latter...

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Well now that's the BBQ spirit!!
If I had a hat I'd give you a proper tip of it.
Ed

I hear ya...been cookin' comps for 10 years now...still don't like comp q...lol! Comp q is over seasoned...over sauced...under smoked...and under cooked! But...that's what one bite bbq is all about...

I am reverberating what you are resonating. Competition Q is not your cup o tea because it is too sweet and not home-sweet-home, cooking. You like the flavor the best, when it isn't sauced up or sugary. That is good food to you.
I like BBQ!! I have been a BBQ judge for several years now and I think it is some of the best (although I have had the worst too!). I like the flavors that those guys and gals present to me when they do a good job. Good sauce, no sauce, good seasoning, not too powering with smoke--balanced. That being said, when I make BBQ, I don't sauce my food because I like to taste good meat and sauce if I think it would be better. I serve sauce on the side for those who want it. I use plenty of seasoning. I don't inject most of the time. It is good BBQ now, because i have been doing it more than 10 years, but it was not so good in the begining. I also look for good BBQ at restaurants. Had good, had not so good.
People are all different, so they like different stuff!

unrelated, but kinda, why does the kcbs mandate a certain tenderness for ribs etc.
it seems they are telling the judges what bbq SHOULD be.

ie, shouldn't they let everyone cook their ribs how they want and if judges think its too tender then they score down, if not tender enough they score down.

It seems to me that even the judges are not allowed to score how they like but based on what kcbs wants (ribs that when you bite into them you see a rounded bite mark)

1. They, KCBS, does NOT mandate.
2. Judges are NOT to score down or up. Doing so would mean that there was a starting score, which there is not.

Rumors do not improve any perceived judging issues.

Ron_L said:

This may be the first time that 'rubric' has been used on this forum :becky:

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I'm a little late to the discussion, but I do believe my new favorite word is rubric. I am going to start incorporating it in my staff and management meetings, and I will laugh on the inside every time I say it. My own little inside joke with me. RUBRIC!

rikun said:

You will, and unless you're in exceptionally stellar competition, 3 will do just fine.
We won our first GC's this year, the second one we cooked 11th Chicken, 1st Ribs, 2nd Pork and 1st Brisket. It took us 10'ish competitions to put it all together for few balanced cooks.

My team mate lives around 95 miles away and we've trained exactly once together, ever.
We live in a country which is separated by water from almost every other country in the world, so we have to fly into competitions.

Our regular competition season is 2-3 competitions a year, since flying in makes everything so much harder to arrange.
We need to borrow everything from somebody else. And we are pretty broke, so that's also that..

I fly with hand luggage only and meat cooler is my hold luggage. We also fly low-cost, sometimes that means multiple changes and other nice things.
And the need to weight our luggage to the gram to avoid overcharges :grin:

The point is this... It's not about the stuff, the cooker, or the size of the rig. Does it help? Sure.

Do you need all that to win? Probably not, but granted it's much nicer to sleep in a campervan than in a sleeping bag with broken zipper. I have only experience of the latter...

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To be fair.......you had 4 awesome scores. Or actually 3 incredible and one that was still great. 11th isn't bad at all. 1, 2, 1, 11 will win anywhere every weekend of the year. Now if that forth category was bottom 3rd of the pack and still won then yes you would be more accurate about only needing 3 :becky:.

I've seen teams win with a 1st or 2nd and then three that were in that 11-13 range.

el luchador said:

unrelated, but kinda, why does the kcbs mandate a certain tenderness for ribs etc.
it seems they are telling the judges what bbq SHOULD be.

ie, shouldn't they let everyone cook their ribs how they want and if judges think its too tender then they score down, if not tender enough they score down.

It seems to me that even the judges are not allowed to score how they like but based on what kcbs wants (ribs that when you bite into them you see a rounded bite mark)

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If KCBS did what you say, then IMnotalwaysHO, there would be more across the board scores. I believe the criteria they tell you to look for is a varied target to give judges a point to judge by. If they didn't say "pull away from the bone clean" there would be judges who say: "yep, I still got my teeth after that bite, it's a 9". :shocked: Now maybe that is a little extreme, but not far from how it would go? It makes sense to give judges a reference so it is more equal.

On the flip side, I think if they went to opening up the criteria of how to judge and change more to preference, we would see different bbq depending on region, which would make it more interesting for sure

Jason TQ said:

To be fair.......you had 4 awesome scores. Or actually 3 incredible and one that was still great. 11th isn't bad at all. 1, 2, 1, 11 will win anywhere every weekend of the year. Now if that forth category was bottom 3rd of the pack and still won then yes you would be more accurate about only needing 3 :becky:.

I've seen teams win with a 1st or 2nd and then three that were in that 11-13 range.

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Yeah Just saying you don't need to nail them all. I don't think 10 ish is nailing a category, well it might be over there where the teams are hardcore..

Chicken is our worst, but our most consistent category, it always hovers around 9-15th. It's true that 1,2,1,11 will win everywhere but it's not equally "easy" to place like that everywhere :mrgreen: I'm already thinking how bad we'll get our butts kicked in Royal & Jack, two great contests to be our first USA ventures. If we can get there somehow and have something to cook with hehe...

Oh wait, let's not talk about the contest where we scored 4th in ribs, 6th in pork, 4th in brisket and LAST in chicken. I guess that was more of what you wrote about :laugh: After that we decided to focus on chicken...

We did actually win with 2nd 2nd 2nd 4th as well previously. But that was pretty weird, the organisers failed to communicate in English that they will provide the meat... So we had to work with weird cuts of meat and we only had three whole chickens (cooked & turned in 6 thighs :becky, but at least it was equal to all. Except everyone else knew beforehand about that :doh:

jermoQ said:

If KCBS did what you say, then IMnotalwaysHO, there would be more across the board scores. I believe the criteria they tell you to look for is a varied target to give judges a point to judge by. If they didn't say "pull away from the bone clean" there would be judges who say: "yep, I still got my teeth after that bite, it's a 9". :shocked: Now maybe that is a little extreme, but not far from how it would go? It makes sense to give judges a reference so it is more equal.

On the flip side, I think if they went to opening up the criteria of how to judge and change more to preference, we would see different bbq depending on region, which would make it more interesting for sure

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I think a reference is much needed, since many judges are pretty inexperienced about BBQ before the certification. The thing is, almost everybody I know likes their ribs fall of the bone at home. If that was the case in KCBS, it would take a big chunk out of the skill to cook them to proper tenderness... And at least here in Europe there are many people who have never eaten real barbecue before, so clear references are needed for tenderness.

I actually think that's the most challenging thing about barbecue, the right/enjoyable tenderness.

Don't you already have pretty different bbq depending on region? I've understood local teams do quite well since many judges are local over there? Or have I been misled by media about that?

I think it's different here in Europe, where many judges travel judging most of the contests in many countries. And we don't have long traditions & flavor profiles that have developed over a long time.

I would actually like to have a reference for proper chicken tenderness in KCBS, apart from the skin. That would be also helpful as a cook, I only know how I like my chicken texture wise...

Taste is always subjective, you can always say "balance", but that means different things to different people. I think that makes it interesting.

rikun said:

I think a reference is much needed, since many judges are pretty inexperienced about BBQ before the certification. The thing is, almost everybody I know likes their ribs fall of the bone at home. If that was the case in KCBS, it would take a big chunk out of the skill to cook them to proper tenderness... And at least here in Europe there are many people who have never eaten real barbecue before, so clear references are needed for tenderness.

I actually think that's the most challenging thing about barbecue, the right/enjoyable tenderness.

Don't you already have pretty different bbq depending on region? I've understood local teams do quite well since many judges are local over there? Or have I been misled by media about that?

I think it's different here in Europe, where many judges travel judging most of the contests in many countries. And we don't have long traditions & flavor profiles that have developed over a long time.

I would actually like to have a reference for proper chicken tenderness in KCBS, apart from the skin. That would be also helpful as a cook, I only know how I like my chicken texture wise...

Taste is always subjective, you can always say "balance", but that means different things to different people. I think that makes it interesting.

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As far as different regions with different versions of Q, there is that for sure. In competitions, I would say the Q is close to the same no matter where you go. I may be mistaken since I haven't gone far from home to judge. Hopefully more experienced comp people can help me with That?

A guideline for chicken besides skin would be this:
1. Not raw
2. Juicy
3. Balanced flavor
When you talk about texture, I can only say it should be cooked

Very interesting I’ve been wanting to attend bbq competitions to experience the competition style bbq

For context, I have have 4 smokers in my backyard, been in the restaurant side of the BBQ business for 23 years, and compete in KCBS events. All three are VERY different.

Backyard cooking, no matter how serious you take it, is done for a selected audience. Food always taste better when it's free and family and friends have bias because they know you. Low pressure labor of love.

In restaurants you are separating people from their hard earned money and have to deliver a consistent product 11 hours a day 365 days of the year. Competition is stiff and you have to feed 500 people on a slow day. No bad review can affect your business.

Competition cooking has rules. The rules are established to identify a winner. Judging can be subjective, but there is a reason why the top teams always finish near the top. Your not cooking what you like, but what you think will win. It is the highest level of scrutiny you will encounter and requires the most amount of finesse.





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I don't like your Chicago deep dish pizza. It's not "true" pizza. Real pizza is thin crust. Pizza should taste like pizza. Not like bread.

As someone who started competing last year, I agree with you. It is a totally different cook and honestly a huge pain in the butt. We've cooked what we thought was amazing food, but our newbieness shows because we don't know the intricacies, the secrets, and didn't realize the amount of time and level of perfection these winning teams put in to really make it perfect. No, I can't afford multiple SRF Wagyu briskets and cook almost a grand in meat every contest. However, I'm ok with not winning as long as I learned my butt off that weekend because I know I'll eventually get there at some point. We go in with low expectations, cook our asses off, and just enjoy the experience until we get better. That is what makes me addicted to it.

I love seeing how others cook, talking to other teams, meeting people, and still really enjoy the competitive side of it. Even tho I've been with you and finished almost to the bottom in ribs (even though I thought they were great) we finished well into the top half in pork. You never know what the next comp brings and maybe the evil judges will be nice next time. I like the challenge and I like that everybody is essentially taking the same test trying to reach the same result, but everybody has a different way of trying to get that A+.