got a question bout temps and flats.

[olive123]

2 wknds ago i cooked a packer flat. Fire got away from me a little and rode to bout 280. cooked it kinda of high for a while 249-280 range.
5lb flat cooked within 7 hrs. Let internal got to 197 waited through a platu at 197 then took it off. couldnt wait anymore! had nice bark. Was very good, a tad dry and I had to cut it thick. It was falling apart.
I have heard that these cuts do better at lower temps. So the next cook i kept in the low 200s 215-225. Wasnt the same.
Does the temp make that much of a difference or are a fat flat forgiving?

[kcquer]

olive, IMO brisket does do better at lower pit temps. I have a horizontal smoker that has an open drain with a drip bucket. I can watch this bucket and get a very good idea what is coming out of the brisket. At lower temps you're just rendering fat, when the temp gets up you can see a layer of water form at the bottom of the bucket, that's beef juices and you don't want those coming out of the meat.
With the above generalization made, let me qualify it a bit by saying the closer to done a brisket gets the more sensitive it is to drying from excess pit temps. If your higher temps were in the first half of the cook the meat wasn't probably warm enough yet for osmosis to begin. I think there may be some merit to higher temps early in the cooking of a brisket but I've not been brave enough to attempt any experiments to verify this. If I could knock a few hours of the time it normally takes me to get good brisket I'd be all for it. To date my very best brisket efforts have come when the pit temp never exceeds 220.

[Jorge]

A brief observation. Cutting the total cook time by 2 hours would reduce my beer intake by 36-48 oz. and I would dry out!

[kcquer]

LMAO, Good point Jorge! It has been said to never trust a skinny cook, I have little trust in a sober pitmaster :wink: 8) :lol:

[Stucue74]

A brief observation. Cutting the total cook time by 2 hours would reduce my beer intake by 36-48 oz. and I would dry out!

1 & 1/2 or 2 beers in 2 hours? Now that's drying out. Something about heat and smoke that makes 'em go down a little more for me :lol:


As far as temp concerns, I believe your temps got a little too high, although brief spikes shouldn't really be too detrimental. I'm actually surprised the meat was as tender as it was. I like to keep it between 200 and 225 for brisket and keep a thermometer in both the flat and the point and pull from heat at 190-195. Of course to keep the meat tender I recommend wrapping in foil for about the last several hours of the cooking time also to keep from drying out.

[brdbbq]

4.199 th Brisket Thread. :roll:

[Jorge]

A brief observation. Cutting the total cook time by 2 hours would reduce my beer intake by 36-48 oz. and I would dry out!

1 & 1/2 or 2 beers in 2 hours? Now that's drying out. Something about heat and smoke that makes 'em go down a little more for me :lol:


My Okie friend. The average beer is 12 oz. per container. Consuming 36-48 oz. over a two hour period would mean I had consumed 3-4 beers, or 1 & 1/2 or 2 beers PER hour, or approximately 1 case for a brisket cook. The work of a Texan is never done :lol:

[brdbbq]

The average beer is 12 oz. per container


You must by the little cans.

[Jorge]

Beer comes in cans?

[brdbbq]

I buy cans makes great siding on the house when empty.

[jminion]

I'm new here so I'm not sure what you are cooking on but I will assume it is an offset of some kind.
Those temps would be higher than I would like, would want to be in the 225 to 235 range. If a pit gets away like that foil would have helped but I would consider testing for tenderness at the point the internal reached 180º. Once I felt it was tender no matter what the internal was it would come off the cooker. I slide a probe from the therm into the flat, if it feels like it is going into butter it's time to remove.
Here is another thing to try once the internal hits 185 to 190º you remove form the cooker, wrap in plastic and HD foil and it goes into a dry cooler for at least 4 hours. This a technique that is producing some of the top briskets on the competition circut.
Jim

[Bill-Chicago]

Can't agree more on the cooler trick.

I cooler pretty much everything, at least for an hour or more, especially brisket and pork loins

[Neil]

your temps are way too high. I've been turning out great brisket at 180-200 degrees 1 hr./lb. then wrap in foil and go another 1 hr./lb. place in dry cooler for two hours. Brisket is now done and oh so tender.

[markbet]

Damn, I must have almost cremated my meat. I brought my temp to 200 and then loaded my brisket and ribs. Then I checked the fire and it was going good, but my temp gauge stayed on 160, so I really get a rip roaring fire going and the guage still only reads 160? Gotta be something wrong with the guage, WRONG! I opened the door to the vertical smoker, and the prong on the guage was stuck into the meat which was keeping it cooled off. When I remove the prong from the meat,, my temp went to 480!! I took out two ends of the ribs (vaporized). Luckly the brisket came out ok, I don't see how.

[markbet]

I had to slam several beers to get over that!!

[BBQchef33]

last 4-5 briskets i did took the advice of dave klose and started at a high temp first. Brought the pit up into the 300's on the initial firing with the dampers wide open. Put the brisket close to the hot spot and set the dampers to the running settings. When the temp dropped down to 250 or so, i moved it to the permanent home in the pit and got the temps locked in at 210-215. Didnt let anything spike over 220. Left them there till the brisket hit 175, foiled them up and brought them to 190-195+, then coolered them for a few hours. Took a little longer but definately produced the best briskets i ever did.

[tommykendall]

The average beer is 12 oz. per container


Huh? - where I buy from they're only called 40's. 8)

[Bill-Chicago]

Took a little longer but definately produced the best briskets i ever did.

Were the first reheated one at B3 done this way, cuz you said it tasted like crap

[tommykendall]

Last few briskets I've done have been cooked constantly in the 210-230 range. They keep getting better. I've heard several times about the initial high temps, even searing both sides first. I'll give it a try - got 2 sitting in the freezer right now.

[Bill-Chicago]

. I've heard several times about the initial high temps, even searing both sides first. I'll give it a try - got 2 sitting in the freezer right now.

I'd thaw them first

[tommykendall]

Good point - never "thawed" of that. :roll:

[jminion]

Tommy
If you are going to sear brisket a couple of things to think about 1) burning the rub will change the flavor not only it can burn the sugars but the spices also. 2) If you are using an offset you have enough hot air moving over a brisket during the whole cook to create bark. 3) If the idea is to seal in moisture it's not going to help cause the moisture is mainly being released once the internal has reached 160º and higher.
Jim

[Bill-Chicago]

Is a better bark achieved with more sugary type sprays (apple juice and bourbon ie.) or with a more vinegary spray? Or does that even matter.

[jminion]

Bill
I like vinegar but for bark on Brisket anyway I have gone to a paste for rub and use apple juice as a mop.
The paste is easy take your rub and add just enough apple juice Plus? to make a thick paste and apply. Letting it set over night is best but for competitions we don't have that kind of time, I can tell you that 6 hours can get the job done.
Jim

[Bill-Chicago]

Thanks Jim.
I'm trying a nice paste on my next one. I only get the 5-6# trimmed flats, and I only do a brisket maybe 5 times a year since the wife doesnt care for it. I never get enough practice on that cut.

[jminion]

Bill
Brisket is really helped when cooking with the point attached, the fat in the points is much higher and that keeps the flat under that section nice and moist. The point also IMO has much more flavor cause of the fat content.
Flat only cooks are helped greatly by foiling techniques, pull it off at 185º internal and let rest wrapped tightly in a dry cooler, will help retain moisture.
Jim

[Bill-Chicago]

Oh, I hear you brother.
It's not from a lack of trying, but I can't get the full packers.

No Super Walmart, Costco carries only flats, etc. Meijer doesnt even offer brisket unless its corned beef.

We're getting 2 new Super Targets, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

[jt]

Jim, there's been a lot of talk about separating the point & flat when the flat reaches 160. Wrap the flat and leave the point in until it reaches 160 to wrap. Any experience with that?

[brdbbq]

It's not from a lack of trying, but I can't get the full packers

It's a Illinois thing they are trying to invent.

[jt]

It's not from a lack of trying, but I can't get the full packers.
If you offer me your wood, I will take it all in.
I'll leave the back gate open


sounds like the problem is being worked on :shock:

cut & paste mod :twisted:

[Bill-Chicago]

sounds like the problem is being worked on :shock:

cut & paste mod :twisted:

Yeah, but you pasted into the wrong thread.

[jminion]

Jester
I like to use the point as protection for the flat so removing at 160º would not be productive to my aims.
I leave it on till I'm ready to take the flat off the cooker ( I like to wrap the flat and place in dry cooler for 4 hours). I would remove the point at this time and allow it to continue cooking on the pit while the flat is doing it's thing in the dry cooler. The point I will cook till it pulls or may chop it, great eating!
Jim

[jt]

Jim - I wrap at 160 then leave in the smoker for heat only until 190-195 then I place it in the cooler. I just wondered if I should cut the flat off at the 160 mark since the point wouldn't necessarily be at 160 yet.

[jminion]

Jester
I wait until it reaches 180º at least before I wrap on the flat but that's just one way, if you are going to wrap at 160º then yes I would remove it then.
Jim

[brdbbq]

sounds like the problem is being worked on :shock:

cut & paste mod :twisted:

Yeah, but you pasted into the wrong thread.

Margarita's for Lunch Mod

[BBQchef33]

Took a little longer but definately produced the best briskets i ever did.

Were the first reheated one at B3 done this way, cuz you said it tasted like crap

yeah, but it was also frozen for 2 weeks and re-heated for however long.. i think the reheat wrecked it.

Wont do the freeze mod anymore to a whole brisket. maybe leftowvers, but no whole ones.

[kcquer]

yeah, but it was also frozen for 2 weeks and re-heated for however long.. i think the reheat wrecked it.

Wont do the freeze mod anymore to a whole brisket. maybe leftowvers, but no whole ones.

Can't speak to frozen whole briskets but, I've been leaving my packers whole until the flat is ready to serve, taking the point off trimming and freezing them. Saved a batch of 4 to fix on the 4th for the folks. They thawed out and were well rendered and still juicy after 6 hrs unwrapped in the Cimarron. Nice burnt ends.
I mostly do this out of laziness, after the hours spent getting a packer to that point of the flat being ready to serve, I'm ready for food and beer and the points are better saved for when I feel like dedicating the time to cook them properly. For me, Q doesn't get any better than a good brisket point.

[BigAl]

Jim, there's been a lot of talk about separating the point & flat when the flat reaches 160. Wrap the flat and leave the point in until it reaches 160 to wrap. Any experience with that?

Not sure, but I might have been the one posting about the 160 temp. That is because water boils here at 6,700 ft altitude, so all "done temps" are a lot lower here. But the separating thing works great here for me.

Flats are moist and so it the point.

[BigAl]

. I've heard several times about the initial high temps, even searing both sides first. I'll give it a try - got 2 sitting in the freezer right now.

I'd thaw them first

Yep, I did a frozen one last time, never again, wayyyyyyyy to much time to get that frozen 10-12 lbs ice block up to smoking temp.

[BigAl]

Oh, I hear you brother.
It's not from a lack of trying, but I can't get the full packers.

No Super Walmart, Costco carries only flats, etc. Meijer doesnt even offer brisket unless its corned beef.

We're getting 2 new Super Targets, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Bill, got Albertsons there? They have excell packer cuts, same as WalMart. Had 'em on sale for $1.79 lb, farkers were sold out when I got there.

[Bill-Chicago]

We have Jewel, owned by Albertsons. No excels. Ask the butcher. Deer in the headlights glazed look in his eyes.

The search continues.