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barbefunkoramaque
05-08-2010, 01:13 PM
The Clock and the Temp Probe.....

Has ruined more BBQ than anything in the last decade.

Now if you use them with expertise then good for you but you are not in the majority.

Then there's all the ones that THINK they make good Q (either from never eating any good q at a pagent or a local place or simply because they have a warped sense of what good q is) and THUS also use probes and clocks in complete denial they are ****ing their q.

The two things have ruined in my opinion maybe 1/3 of the world's Brisket supply alone.

I used to say the Internet has ruined it but while bad info (or too much conflicting good info) has ruined a lot of BBQ,, this forum has proven to give a valuable alignment to the myths and bad practices of bad Q. Kind of like Mental Retardation is on the down slide while Autism is on the up. In other words we do it right and all the others **** it up... the worse internet contributors being so called "chefs" writing for recipe.com sites.

Now discuss.

Gore
05-08-2010, 01:38 PM
:pop2:

SmokeJumper
05-08-2010, 01:50 PM
:tumbleweed:

smoken don
05-08-2010, 01:57 PM
The Clock and the Temp Probe.....

Has ruined more BBQ than anything in the last decade.

Now if you use them with expertise then good for you but you are not in the majority.

Then there's all the ones that THINK they make good Q (either from never eating any good q at a pagent or a local place or simply because they have a warped sense of what good q is) and THUS also use probes and clocks in complete denial they are ****ing their q.

The two things have ruined in my opinion maybe 1/3 of the world's Brisket supply alone.

I used to say the Internet has ruined it but while bad info (or too much conflicting good info) has ruined a lot of BBQ,, this forum has proven to give a valuable alignment to the myths and bad practices of bad Q. Kind of like Mental Retardation is on the down slide while Autism is on the up. In other words we do it right and all the others **** it up... the worse internet contributors being so called "chefs" writing for recipe.com sites.

Now discuss.


AMEN!:thumb:

Smokin' D
05-08-2010, 02:18 PM
When I first started doing the low and slow, I knew nothing. Good food bad food. I was cooking with a cheap propane vertical thing. As I moved along got a cheap offset and became all crazed with thermometers and fixating on grate temperature side to side in the chamber. Gigantic differences. Remote thermometers. Probes through blocks of wood taking up more space on the grate than the meat did. There was no joy. Started to mellow over time and now pay attention to pit temps with just 1 thermo in the top or side depending on what I'm using. Best Brisket EVER was one done on the offset. No thermo in the meat. No flipping. No foil. No clock, even though I was never a slave to one. I probed it Funk Style and it was one of the most rewarding and relaxing cooks I've had. Thanks Donnie.

barbefunkoramaque
05-08-2010, 02:25 PM
u can always use biscuits to test your grate temps. If I have to cook on a pit I do not know, I try to get 250 and set out three cans of bisquits and look at where and how each bisquit cooks.

Of course, sadly even that is bad. My brazos full of brisket or full of butts behaves totally different.

MilitantSquatter
05-08-2010, 02:35 PM
These may come in 3rd, 4th & 5th in the voting

not necessarily for what they do to the food but for their synergistic impact on the cooking process in conjunction with The Clock & The Temp probe.

barbefunkoramaque
05-08-2010, 02:41 PM
I was not going to step into that dooky until June 7th, Vinny but I agree.

1_T_Scot
05-08-2010, 04:32 PM
Temp probe for meat? Or for the Smoker? I assume Meat since you mention smoker temp.

I thought it was the Crock pot/liquid smoke. Dang.

Willie's BBQ
05-08-2010, 05:01 PM
:crazy::crazy:The Clock and the Temp Probe.....

Has ruined more BBQ than anything in the last decade.

Now if you use them with expertise then good for you but you are not in the majority.

Then there's all the ones that THINK they make good Q (either from never eating any good q at a pagent or a local place or simply because they have a warped sense of what good q is) and THUS also use probes and clocks in complete denial they are ****ing their q.

The two things have ruined in my opinion maybe 1/3 of the world's Brisket supply alone.

I used to say the Internet has ruined it but while bad info (or too much conflicting good info) has ruined a lot of BBQ,, this forum has proven to give a valuable alignment to the myths and bad practices of bad Q. Kind of like Mental Retardation is on the down slide while Autism is on the up. In other words we do it right and all the others **** it up... the worse internet contributors being so called "chefs" writing for recipe.com sites.

Now discuss.
was this really needed?????? why not let people do what they want????? sorry myron, didnt mean to interupt your rant

CajunSmoker
05-08-2010, 05:18 PM
IMHO the clock and the temp probe have their place in the process, but only as indicators or reminders of when to do other things. I like to know when my butts hit a certain temp so I can probe them. I can stick a remote probe in when I put them in the drum and I don't have to open it up and get a temp swing just to check it. Overall though it ain't about time or temp, its all about feel.

barbefunkoramaque
05-08-2010, 05:19 PM
:crazy::crazy:
was this really needed?????? why not let people do what they want????? sorry myron, didnt mean to interupt your rant

LOL, LMAO, ROFL. You haven;t been here long enough to see me "rant."

Furthermore, it has long been a pain for many a member to see a thread like this...

Subject:Brisket Help Needed

Dear Brethren

Today i did my first brisket blah blah blah, after blah blah blahing it and blahin it until it blah blahed... i then blahed it until it blahed twice. I then injected it with sweet loving blah when no one was looking. My blahs are tingly and I am walking funny and feel empty deep in my blahs from blahing my meat so much. i let it blah for three weeks then cooked it 20 minutes per pound blah blah blah at precisely blah blah temp. what went wrong blah sniff, blah blah. I checked the temp 56 consecutive times and it was not done at the precise temp of blah, blah blah. After 12 hours i finally gave up. Its a piece of crap. what can I do?

Many of you more experienced blahers say not to probe it or look at it too much... so I cut it down to just checking every 15 minutes--- you know, when I am already blahing it anyway with a mixture of blah just like Bobby Blah does or one of Paula Deens Gay assed sons do.

Internal Temp at 7 - 122
Internal Temp at 7:15 - 122
Internal Temp at 7:30 - 122.43
Internal Temp at 7:45 - 122.5
Internal Temp at 8:00 - 123
Internal Temp at 8:15 - 123.21223
Internal Temp at 8:30 - 121
Internal Temp at 8:45 - 120
Internal Temp at 9:00 - 121
Internal Temp at 9:15 - 122



I think you are right. Let's all just cook like we want... no more questionbs or advice from experts... let's now make this forum pron only... nope, we would learn from that too.

Please, do NOT insult Myron by comparing him to me. You should try talking to him one day.

barbefunkoramaque
05-08-2010, 05:20 PM
IMHO the clock and the temp probe have their place in the process, but only as indicators or reminders of when to do other things. I like to know when my butts hit a certain temp so I can probe them. I can stick a remote probe in when I put them in the drum and I don't have to open it up and get a temp swing just to check it. Overall though it ain't about time or temp, its all about feel.

Thanks... I was depending on a post more like this - good job.

MilitantSquatter
05-08-2010, 05:37 PM
Mod Note : Thread scrubbed...This is fair Q-talk discussion topic if remaining on topic and doesn't break any forum rules. It has good potential to stir interesting but civil debate. Let's not make it personal.

Thanks in advance.

CajunSmoker
05-08-2010, 05:42 PM
LOL, LMAO, ROFL. You haven;t been here long enough to see me "rant."

Furthermore, it has long been a pain for many a member to see a thread like this...

Subject:Brisket Help Needed

Dear Brethren

Today i did my first brisket blah blah blah, after blah blah blahing it and blahin it until it blah blahed... i then blahed it until it blahed twice. I then injected it with sweet loving blah when no one was looking. My blahs are tingly and I am walking funny and feel empty deep in my blahs from blahing my meat so much. i let it blah for three weeks then cooked it 20 minutes per pound blah blah blah at precisely blah blah temp. what went wrong blah sniff, blah blah. I checked the temp 56 consecutive times and it was not done at the precise temp of blah, blah blah. After 12 hours i finally gave up. Its a piece of crap. what can I do?

Many of you more experienced blahers say not to probe it or look at it too much... so I cut it down to just checking every 15 minutes--- you know, when I am already blahing it anyway with a mixture of blah just like Bobby Blah does or one of Paula Deens Gay assed sons do.

Internal Temp at 7 - 122
Internal Temp at 7:15 - 122
Internal Temp at 7:30 - 122.43
Internal Temp at 7:45 - 122.5
Internal Temp at 8:00 - 123
Internal Temp at 8:15 - 123.21223
Internal Temp at 8:30 - 121
Internal Temp at 8:45 - 120
Internal Temp at 9:00 - 121
Internal Temp at 9:15 - 122



I think you are right. Let's all just cook like we want... no more questionbs or advice from experts... let's now make this forum pron only... nope, we would learn from that too.

Please, do NOT insult Myron by comparing him to me. You should try talking to him one day.


ROFLMFAO:thumb: Now that's some funny chit:clap2:

T-Man
05-08-2010, 05:49 PM
It's done when it's done.....

barbefunkoramaque
05-08-2010, 05:52 PM
Oh, "la mouche à merde" - they are out today---- I think it time for fly fishing.

By the way - Ricky Martin assistant "Antoine" is not a "really reliable source" no matter how much someone may smell like him.

barbefunkoramaque
05-08-2010, 05:52 PM
I wish I could patent the look when you tell people "its done when its done" They always think ur being rude.

JD McGee
05-08-2010, 06:48 PM
I use remote temp probes for comps to get a little shuteye...my backyard q is a different breed of critter...I only use the probe for probing...it's STILL done when it's done...:cool: Rant on brothers...:becky:

1_T_Scot
05-08-2010, 07:03 PM
Huh???? It's not done before its done.

Back to setting up the PC based data aquisition system to monitor my 12 thermocouples and 17 RTD's, after 14 hours 3.5 minutes of exact temperature control updated with MMS picture and data text messages then on to the "Analysis paralysis" phase using the Internationaly known 6 sigma system that has almost totally ruined what is left of Manufacturing in the USA.

After all this I just don't understand why my brisket is now jerky.

Rich Parker
05-08-2010, 07:56 PM
Temp gauges are essential for cooking chicken.

barbefunkoramaque
05-08-2010, 08:09 PM
Temp gauges are essential for cooking chicken.

Really? I thought shaking hands was?

You have to have competed in Texas to get that one.

barbefunkoramaque
05-08-2010, 08:11 PM
Huh???? It's not done before its done.

Back to setting up the PC based data aquisition system to monitor my 12 thermocouples and 17 RTD's, after 14 hours 3.5 minutes of exact temperature control updated with MMS picture and data text messages then on to the "Analysis paralysis" phase using the Internationaly known 6 sigma system that has almost totally ruined what is left of Manufacturing in the USA.

After all this I just don't understand why my brisket is now jerky.

we all know I use a Stoker System so the joke is on..... LOL

Bbq Bubba
05-08-2010, 08:33 PM
internal temp at 7 - 122
internal temp at 7:15 - 122
internal temp at 7:30 - 122.43
internal temp at 7:45 - 122.5
internal temp at 8:00 - 123
internal temp at 8:15 - 123.21223
internal temp at 8:30 - 121
internal temp at 8:45 - 120
internal temp at 9:00 - 121
internal temp at 9:15 - 122


lmao......

jeffjenkins1
05-08-2010, 09:42 PM
Internationaly known 6 sigma system that has almost totally ruined what is left of Manufacturing in the USA.

You a blackbelt?

Anyway, thanks Donny for bringing up a valid point in your usual P.C. fashion (or lack of P.C., depending on which side of the topic you are on). LOL

Not to hijack but, cooking wings on the kettle tomorrow, you think I should put the thermo in the 1st or 2nd joint? Thanks in advance for any info.

Jeff

T-Man
05-08-2010, 09:48 PM
I wish I could patent the look when you tell people "its done when its done" They always think ur being rude.
__________________
Popdaddy 2010

Rude..? Almost had to fight 'em.....

As far as meat temp probes... (have one in my cookshack)... Man , if you stick one in your butt...LOL..as in boston butt , shoulder butt etc. and you think you got it properly positioned , centered etc.. It could be placed in a fat pocket then your screwed on temp. reading's..... I just use it as a guide , l check the meat after about 10 hrs (depending on what I am cooking /and at what temp. ).. I use a thermapen... But I used to use a Ice pick....So if the thermapen feels like using a Icepick ..we are good to go..

1_T_Scot
05-08-2010, 11:36 PM
You a blackbelt?



Nope, I have attended more meetings and worked on more projects than I care to count. The Blackbelt is the person that gets credit for all of the work the rest of us do.

CBQ
05-09-2010, 01:56 AM
I work in IT as my day job, and I have more than a few gadgets on my smoker. When talking about Social Networking I have been known to put my smoker up on the screen as an example of a mobile device. (I can move it, and it can send twitter messages, so why not?)

Given that, the meat is still done when I can bend, touch, or probe it to my satisfaction.

DC-Q
05-09-2010, 09:43 AM
I've done enough Butts & Briskets to know when to try probing, it's not rocket science. On the other hand, as I've posted, I cooked my 1st Tri-Tip last night. I stuck the maverick probe in it because I really didn't know what to expect on my cooker. Patio Daddio's recipe said to shoot for a cooking temp of 350, cook for about an hour on one side to 120° then flip, cook for about 1/2 hr on the other to 130°. I know my Traegers burn on the hot side. So I set it on 325. The T-T reached 120 in 45 min. & was done in an hour. Without the temp probe I would've over cooked it. I probably won't use the maverick on the next T-T but I think it helped me on the 1st one. So, I think good thermometer can help out in certain situations. But, I don't think they're something anyone should place all their faith into all the time.

WadePatton
05-09-2010, 10:35 AM
cool, now i don't have to buy a remote probe or wear a watch.

never was interested in mists mops hypodermics.

meat smoke spices sauce (if you must).

barbefunkoramaque
05-09-2010, 10:53 AM
I think Dc nails it. Many of you defended the use of a IT temp probe and nearly all agreed that in the beef and pork realms of bbq the temp probe has its place but in no case an end all to the art. This is primarily my problem. No one, defended the clock really.

So, in true parliamentary form we must align the resolution to be more precise.

It now should read:

The Temp Probe has caused an over reliance in the false finality of internal temps as a judging medium for the "doneness" if many given smoked meats in the beef and pork categories. The Clock holds a close second in its ability to undermine a otherwise tender and moist product.

Now a moment about why I come to y'all with this. As many of you know I run a little web channel. I must get maybe about 700 emails from it a year, mostly questions that look pretty similar to what we get here. In gauging blame for most of the problems people have I have noted that nearly 80 percent comes from what happens to the meat when its on the pit. And 60% of that (not 60% comes from the total) comes from the IT Temp probe, the clock, or manual basting techniques. It amazes me how many people pull their cue at such and such hour and then wonder why its not tender. It amazes me still how many people who understand "its done when its done," "IT Temp is not a measure of doneness" and "lookin' ain't cookin" or "Probe like butter" still yank it too soon, worry about IT and mess otherwise good q up; Only to write me it was better the next day when they reheated it in the oven the next day.

The people who do this UNANIMOUSLY SKIP over the Night Train Brisket exercise. My thought is because I never did a video of that - mostly because its not BBQ, or is it? Can Baking a brisket in the OVEN IN Foil.. be the best training for "feel" ever?

Thanks for your contributions to another Chapter in my book.

Rich Parker
05-09-2010, 11:29 AM
Don't forget the chicken! :wink:

Arlin_MacRae
05-09-2010, 12:25 PM
I agree, but not completely.
I think a temp probe and a clock are every bit as important as your pit's temp gauge - at least initially. If you're ever going to cook for other people you need to know what temperature to set your pit to, and how long it takes to cook a brisket at that temperature. Otherwise, how will you know when to start cooking so the finished product is done on time? Now, after you've mastered the art, pitch 'em.

barbefunkoramaque
05-09-2010, 03:45 PM
With all due and earn respect Arlin you are not getting the finer points and clarifications. However, I appreciate you making me further qualifying my topic here. Thanks! :clap2:

1. As far as "Pit temp," in nearly every instance I have made it clear we are talking about the Therm as it applies to INTERNAL temperature of your meat as an indicator of doneness. As I continued I explained (as others made me aware) that I am talking about Beef and Pork and NOT Chicken. To be specific the stubborn meats. At times even Ribs. On ribs the Clock tends to do them in more. However, in regards to chicken in some cases, it can be the appearance of the skin or the looseness of the joints that indicate the zenith of doneness. The mention of tritip is a good point but grilling is not really something I am getting at here.

2. With our long resting periods, too much reliance on the clock beyond the general is also something that claims many a chunk of meat. Sure, knowing it takes generally 8 hours to cook such and such - having you guests there at precisely 8 hours after you throw the meat down is simply asking for trouble. Thus, BECAUSE we can rest our meats and that generally does positive things for whatever we are cooking (notice I have not raised up Chicken as It is a different animal) we can in fact add 5 hours to the 8 hours to equal 13 if we want. In this way... we could literally use more general scales of time like "dark 30" instead of precise terms like "pull at 6:30." I gave someone right now that although he knew that the ribs needed to have wept (he was using the weeping method), have a bend and be able to be easily piercable, he STILL removed them from the grill because of some arbitrary time limit - which incidentally probably would have worked perfectly in an oven.

3. And finally, if the novice Quer is of concern (which is implied by your use of "Mastered the art" there are scores of people that come in here as novices that know how to take internals, know how to time something and make long strides to be scientific about their measurements that simply screw the pooch anyway.

Also, remember I excluded you freaks of nature that have no problem using a probe as a guide anyway - the problem is those that elevate the clock and the term to God Status.

One last thing - many of you may argue that since you use the therm as a guide and use the clock as a guide to when it SHOULD be ready but I can guarantee those masters out there are NOT going pull a brisket at precisely 12:00 noon when its in a stall at 170. Nor are you going to pull a rack of ribs for slicing just because it was 3 hours on the pit,one in the foil and one uncovered yet not done. Unless of course you made a mistake estimating done time on a HUGE time period and you have to turn SOMETHING in. So you people do NOT count and are NOT figured into the equation of failures.

Now you may do something else though - which even I have done. You notice the damn briskets are in the stall too long so you open a damper or two pr shift it to a hot spot and Bogart the meat at 300 degrees for a bit to push it out of its lull then back it down again so you can align your estimated done time to when ever its suppose to be done. Now your probe is no magical tool, Thirdeye and I can do the same thing with our non-therm probes I bet - heck, I can even HEAR what my meat is doing without opening the pit. All these examples are not the same thing as IGNORING all your other senses EXCEPT the clock and the Temperature and STILL pulling before its done or ignoring the fact an occasional brisket is ready at 178-185 and still waiting for your probe to scream 195.

This ultimately this is the failure we speak of... and I guarantee you... guarantee you, on the old trails from Texas to Kansas, at the political rallies in the deep south in the early part of 20th Century, they made great Que without any precise concept of time beyond what the sun was generally doing and the look and feel of the meat. No timers, no wrist watches, no thermoprobes...just their own good senses.

I agree, but not completely.
I think a temp probe and a clock are every bit as important as your pit's temp gauge - at least initially. If you're ever going to cook for other people you need to know what temperature to set your pit to, and how long it takes to cook a brisket at that temperature. Otherwise, how will you know when to start cooking so the finished product is done on time? Now, after you've mastered the art, pitch 'em.

barbefunkoramaque
05-09-2010, 09:11 PM
I really mean the thanks arlin.

1_T_Scot
05-09-2010, 09:21 PM
Wonder if the same people that forget everything else but, the Clock and the probe also go just by a timer when baking bread? "I just can't figure out why this bread isn't brown on top and it is still doughy in the middle????"

thirdeye
05-09-2010, 10:58 PM
... and I guarantee you... guarantee you, on the old trails from Texas to Kansas, at the political rallies in the deep south in the early part of 20th Century, they made great Que without any precise concept of time beyond what the sun was generally doing and the look and feel of the meat. No timers, no wrist watches, no thermoprobes...just their own good senses.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/thirdeye2/People/jetton2.jpg


Heheeee. I was thinking the same thing while reading this post. Now, what do you suppose would have happened if some department head or NASA bigshot pulled out a thermometer in the middle of one of Wally's cookouts at the ranch?

I'm thinking there would have been a lot of dry cleaning involved.

WadePatton
05-10-2010, 10:24 PM
isn't the real problem telling someone else when you expect it to be done?

that should be a rule.

barbefunkoramaque
05-11-2010, 10:32 AM
what, picking out a time or telling someone.... I am confused? LOL

I have luck simply adding at least three hours to my estimated time, if its done early, resting will only improve it, if its late, i have time...

I DID used to do this event every year where the husband was my friend but the wife hated me... well she didn't hate me she just was a difficult bitch of woman from what her now EX hubby says.

Every year as the BBQ cooked and was nearing completion, if she said "we are eating at 6, she would throw on her frozen burgers and hot dogs at 4:30 or 5. The crowd would fill up on this, then I would pull out the Q and it would sit until people got hungry again.

The last time I did the party, I had MOST of my Cue done and in the Cambros LONG before it was time. I also had a finishing grill - one of those 5 footers. She pulled that trick on me again and the minute those frozen puppies went on I whipped out the ribs and chicken and finished them on the grill. Now think... you got one line for frozen burgers and 5 feet grill of ribs and chicken ready to go and being glazed. That year only the kids ate burgers, the other 200 cleaned me out.

augie
05-11-2010, 10:44 AM
I try to get 250 and set out three cans of bisquits .

Well, maybe you can get away with calling those atrocities in cans biscuits in Texas, but not in the deep south (yeah, I know Florida doesn't qualify as being in the deep south any way but geographically, but my dad was from Mississippi).

Where would you probe the cans anyway?

:twisted:

barbefunkoramaque
05-11-2010, 11:22 AM
LOL I am sorry. I was talking about if you have a large pit you are unfamiliar with and need a good quick way of finding the hot spots (or adjusting plates on some models) then taking the BISCUITS out of the cans and placing them evenly at 6-12 inch increments and running the pit at about 250 or so will show you where your hots spots are. I am not endorsing the canned biscuit.... however, now that I think of it, homemade biscuits would be cheaper, huh? LOL

Well, maybe you can get away with calling those atrocities in cans biscuits in Texas, but not in the deep south (yeah, I know Florida doesn't qualify as being in the deep south any way but geographically, but my dad was from Mississippi).

Where would you probe the cans anyway?

:twisted:

deguerre
05-11-2010, 01:08 PM
Actually, I kinda DO want to know when my rib roast reaches a certain temp so I don't over cook it.:becky: Otherwise, I'll keep using the bend test for my ribs and the poke-a-poke test for my briskie and the waggle the bone test for my butt.

barbefunkoramaque
05-11-2010, 01:23 PM
yeah but once again - rib roast is not what we are talking about - kinda like tri tip. We are talking about the tougher cuts that need to be cooked slowly (in comparison to charred cutts) and are wortheless when they are pink or medium rare and what not

deguerre
05-11-2010, 01:30 PM
Yep. That's why I had the big ol' smiley. Your pig honey vid and bend test demo improved my cooking skills with ribs exponentially.

lcbateman3
05-11-2010, 01:35 PM
When I first started I had no temp probes. Did have a clock though, those things are everywhere! I kinda knew how long it should take. (give or take a few hours). Started there. Even today I just have a regular old therm (dial version, slow...) I only use it right at the end to make sure my feel and eyes are in agreement with the tempature it is.

I do think they can be useful tools, but they can be used as a crutch as well. It is all about balance. I have watched alot of your videos, and I still have alot to learn, but hey, thats majority of the fun.

barbefunkoramaque
05-11-2010, 01:44 PM
I had this guy at our local restaurant that sorta wants me to fix his lousy Q but will not change anything. I absolutley love the guy though and think he is a nice guy but he INHERITED the most HORRID sauce i have ever had anywhere. hands down... I mean if someone pours a can of tomato soup over ribs I would like that more. Anyway, the other day I ordered a steak and the steak arrived really rare although I said medium rare. I said nothing a choked it down to be nice then he goes on to tell me his "theory" that all steaks he requires to be cooked one temp under what someone asks for because he says doneness is subjective. I sort of understand that but he guarantees nearly every steak is going to be wrong by that logic. Its idiotic to think that way. I see the logic but its planning to fix a problem by making it wrong to start with.

There is indeed a temperature level at which a steak is done to some degree spearated by levels like rare (120-125) - I think mine was 80 degrees LOL - Medium rare (130-135), medium (140-145), Medium well (150-155) Well Done (160) These are easily hittable targets. I would not worry about the "hole" because he sticks one of those meat temp signs in each steak (which goes in the quick temp hole).

Sure I use the feel method but that's not reliable.

Will he listen - nope.

lcbateman3
05-11-2010, 01:48 PM
What you been in my neck of the woods??

Guy here is the same way. I have just about stopped ordering steaks all together from resturants. I can't tell you the last time I got a Medium Rare steak. Always has been rare or done.

barbefunkoramaque
05-11-2010, 01:51 PM
I did considerable time in your state when I was researching German Interned Maritime Sailors that were house in a Hot Springs Spa Hotel and Golf Resort back in 1917-1918.

BBQchef33
05-11-2010, 02:39 PM
LOL Waiting for the Mop




yeah yeah...


i mopped.. didnt even know which one to start with... :crazy:


now can u ladies please stop pissing on shoes, you're getting it on my floor.

in other words

BACK ON TOPIC!! and play nice!

Bulverde
05-11-2010, 02:49 PM
The Temp Probe has caused an over reliance in the false finality of internal temps as a judging medium for the "doneness" if many given smoked meats in the beef and pork categories. The Clock holds a close second in its ability to undermine a otherwise tender and moist product.

If I follow your intent, I think the above with "finality" in it really sums up the popular phiosophy that has baptized a lot of q'ers into the art today.

On the other hand, I use a temp-probe to let me know when I am over the stall, so I can kind of get an idea of when to start probing (I'll open up at about 185ish and jab around on the flat).

I'm always doing so many other things, that I lose track of the cook; so the temp-probe helps.

Also, because I ONLY do hot and fast now, I have learned the HARD way that when it is done, to get it out of there and don't dink around and leave it in there!!

I can not see how a clock could possibly help to get it out when it needs to be out.

Bulverde

Lake Dogs
05-11-2010, 03:16 PM
> the zenith of doneness

Now, THERE's the best damned nick I've ever heard of:

TheZenithofDoneness

moda253
05-11-2010, 03:40 PM
The clock.... the clock is helpful for pacing. Any more than 4 beers an hour can have adverse effects on our ability to tend to the smoker and can result in a state rendering the cook in a dreamstate.

The temp probe in the meat can help prevent an extreme overcook should the cook forget to check the clock that is so vital to his ability to pace his consumption and he renders himself incapacitated. In In that event an alarm indicating that the meat has reached a certain temperature where one should at least be concious an alarm can wake the sleeping cook so that he can resume his attentive prodding and/or bone pulling processes.

And that is how clocks and thermometers can be important although possible not necessary implements in the barbeque process.

I understand what you are saying barbefunkoramaque but at the same time there are some general temperature zones where I think I am glad I was paying attention when I first started. For example even though I have learend to fine tune when to pull, early on getting the butt to about 200 put me in the zone of what to look for in general. Had I not had that as a guide in the early days I would have probably pulled way too early several times and ended up with a lesser product. If anything when I first started it definately kept me from peeking too often. Now after being at it for a while I just kind of understand when it's time and that it is in fact done when it's done.

In the end it's beer that is the problem in my experience and the consumption of too much of it.

boogiesnap
07-07-2010, 11:21 PM
from how many sources can the new bbq cook get the following info:
cook your pork/brisket at 225 until internal temperature reads 195-205.
this instruction is beaten on so many drums its defeaning.

the best brisket, by far and away(and as some sort of coroboration, we had a couple over to eat, and they did a 2 week tour in the south on a BBQ joint quest, and did remark, this was among the best)i had ever had or made(have yet to even come close to replicating, sadly), i pulled at 168. at the time i KNEW it wasn't done, but it was soft to the probe, and i needed the space on the cooker for my next meats cuz i was practicing the first time for comps. so i thought, just push through, and we'll see...
just lucky with that particular brisket and that particular cook, but...

now my issue has progressed a little further as my experience base grows.
i can't help but look at the temps when i probe BTW.
briskets since the one above; they ain't butter soft at 168, and when they are butter soft, usually closer to 185/90, they've been kinda dry.

i'm cooking hot and fast(@325-350)so i am watching the clock for the first hour or two, and i am using an IT at that point to wrap just coming out of the stall, but beyond that, it is just coincidental that the stick i poke it with also tells me what temp its at. its done when its done, but i'm getting them overdone.

i'm working on this skill: smell.
i think you can smell when the meat is coming out of the stall, and then again right when it begins or ends(not sure which yet cuz i haven't done enough, but depending on which one it is that i am smelling can determine done or if you don't watch it CLOSELY overdone)its collagen breakdown and is either the precise time EXACTLY to take it off or the precise time EXACTLY to start giving it some pokes and serious attention.

this is a work in progress for me at its infancy, but i think it's possible.

anyway, i learned, by accident, IT's can't be relied upon. the clock is one of the pillars of life and cannot be avoided or ignored, other than, in reference to BBQ:
"no, it ain't done yet" , "wow, right when i wanted it", or "holy cow, done already"????

barbefunkoramaque
07-08-2010, 08:25 AM
You are absolutely right. I use these things exclusively to cook brisket and everyone has already seen my weep em and read ribs video.

Sound - like a bag of microwave popcorn (and also the design of either my self made 1000 pound meat mama and the 6600 lbs Brazos which as a diverter plate) I know when things begin to weep. briskets too.... retain a lot of their moisture and FAT throughout about 95 % of the cook.... then, after the stall they begin to weep... a little at first, then like Popcorn in a microwave - a lot... most of it of course fat... hauling away that collagen. When it slows down I usually lately tamp down the furnace making them draw in just before I pull them. I can even listen in the brazos tell from sound which ones start weeping first.... the front and back start weeping first.

Smell - I use a lot of pepper and no foil. Thus the pepper I use becomes more toned down as the brisket nears that done stage (due to the heat and meat juices carrying away the heat of the pepper) yet leaving behind that earthy mild pepper smell. This has to go somewhere... and you do not get this as much on a low and slow cook and DEF NOT if foiled.
I live near a BBQ joint I am slowly trying to influence. I told the guy he needed to ramp up his temp at least to 250 in his oyler. At forst of course he thought I was full of ****. One day I stopped in and looked him in the eye and said "I can tell you did two things" One you saw my video and added that ending salt and pepper rub just before you put them on.. second, I know you ramped up the temps.
He goes how did you know - i said cuz the whole town smells different. I can smell the smell of the meat (WITH your smoke) that you cannot ever get that smell at 220 or 230. Next is... you are about to pull the briskets off as they are weeping right now... the pepper smell is in the air.... which means its coming out of the rub. He was amazed. still has not converted and still will not wrap his briskets - so as a result - he has about 20-30 percent dried out brisket that he thinks his steam oven will revive.

sight - sometimes there is no need to poke when color will do. I know a guy whose probe of a long broom handle with a meat hook on the end. He uses the blunt end to thumb the briskets. When the points get "so - so" then he knows they are ready to pull and hold--- thus tenderize to his liking.

feel - I open the pit and am ready to pull some briskets or shift them to the hot zone to finish them off. Once all these inputs above are in my brain, just placing my hands on the briskets key me in like some kind of brisket empath. Of course i do 25 or more at a time. They either get tossed front or back or pulled and rested. I am getting now to where I do not even probe as much.


from how many sources can the new bbq cook get the following info:
cook your pork/brisket at 225 until internal temperature reads 195-205.
this instruction is beaten on so many drums its defeaning.

the best brisket, by far and away(and as some sort of coroboration, we had a couple over to eat, and they did a 2 week tour in the south on a BBQ joint quest, and did remark, this was among the best)i had ever had or made(have yet to even come close to replicating, sadly), i pulled at 168. at the time i KNEW it wasn't done, but it was soft to the probe, and i needed the space on the cooker for my next meats cuz i was practicing the first time for comps. so i thought, just push through, and we'll see...
just lucky with that particular brisket and that particular cook, but...

now my issue has progressed a little further as my experience base grows.
i can't help but look at the temps when i probe BTW.
briskets since the one above; they ain't butter soft at 168, and when they are butter soft, usually closer to 185/90, they've been kinda dry.

i'm cooking hot and fast(@325-350)so i am watching the clock for the first hour or two, and i am using an IT at that point to wrap just coming out of the stall, but beyond that, it is just coincidental that the stick i poke it with also tells me what temp its at. its done when its done, but i'm getting them overdone.

i'm working on this skill: smell.
i think you can smell when the meat is coming out of the stall, and then again right when it begins or ends(not sure which yet cuz i haven't done enough, but depending on which one it is that i am smelling can determine done or if you don't watch it CLOSELY overdone)its collagen breakdown and is either the precise time EXACTLY to take it off or the precise time EXACTLY to start giving it some pokes and serious attention.

this is a work in progress for me at its infancy, but i think it's possible.

anyway, i learned, by accident, IT's can't be relied upon. the clock is one of the pillars of life and cannot be avoided or ignored, other than, in reference to BBQ:
"no, it ain't done yet" , "wow, right when i wanted it", or "holy cow, done already"????

Crüe-B-Cüe
07-08-2010, 02:24 PM
I haven't really been here in a couple of months, but it's threads like these that make me miss the place.

JD McGee
07-08-2010, 03:31 PM
It DO get a bit colorful from time to time don't it! :boxing::twisted::becky:

Goddahavit
07-09-2010, 08:31 AM
The Clock and the Temp Probe.....

Has ruined more BBQ than anything in the last decade.

Now if you use them with expertise then good for you but you are not in the majority.

Then there's all the ones that THINK they make good Q (either from never eating any good q at a pagent or a local place or simply because they have a warped sense of what good q is) and THUS also use probes and clocks in complete denial they are ****ing their q.

The two things have ruined in my opinion maybe 1/3 of the world's Brisket supply alone.

I used to say the Internet has ruined it but while bad info (or too much conflicting good info) has ruined a lot of BBQ,, this forum has proven to give a valuable alignment to the myths and bad practices of bad Q. Kind of like Mental Retardation is on the down slide while Autism is on the up. In other words we do it right and all the others **** it up... the worse internet contributors being so called "chefs" writing for recipe.com sites.

Now discuss.

This is the part, that I find troubling, personally i have this issue, any suggestions aside form a trip to your place to remedy the never eaten good Q?
Not that i'm opposed to a trip......

Weather mine is good or not, is undetermined, but I find it difficult to order Q anyplace, I am continually disappointed, and brisket, don't get me started on where in PA to find a good brisket, it is difficult for me to make a brisket when I have never tasted a good one.

I might have to disagree though on the clock and temp probe being the real issues.
To me the real issues are people being stubborn, or not understand what is meant when they are told to probe, or feel. It takes a lot of cooking to develop and understand done, (for me anyway) people are stubborn or not willing to spend the money on cooking large amounts of meat.

I have personally made the mistake of telling people when its going to be done, only to be serving burgers and dogs because its not ready and they are unwilling to wait, lesson learned, done early resting long before the time people are expecting to eat.

Its done when its done, so have coolers or cambros ready.....and be done early, rather than late.

Thanks for he discussion.

Eric

barbefunkoramaque
12-29-2010, 10:42 PM
This is the part, that I find troubling, personally i have this issue, any suggestions aside form a trip to your place to remedy the never eaten good Q?
Not that i'm opposed to a trip......

Weather mine is good or not, is undetermined, but I find it difficult to order Q anyplace, I am continually disappointed, and brisket, don't get me started on where in PA to find a good brisket, it is difficult for me to make a brisket when I have never tasted a good one.

I might have to disagree though on the clock and temp probe being the real issues.
To me the real issues are people being stubborn, or not understand what is meant when they are told to probe, or feel. It takes a lot of cooking to develop and understand done, (for me anyway) people are stubborn or not willing to spend the money on cooking large amounts of meat.

I have personally made the mistake of telling people when its going to be done, only to be serving burgers and dogs because its not ready and they are unwilling to wait, lesson learned, done early resting long before the time people are expecting to eat.

Its done when its done, so have coolers or cambros ready.....and be done early, rather than late.

Thanks for he discussion.

Eric


And thank you for the contemplative response:-D

sandiegobbq
06-26-2011, 02:25 PM
This is an excellent thread.

When I started to cook bbq about 11 years ago, I had a few mentors.

I started by using a WSM.

One of them was quite anal about using only 225 degree temperature.

To the point that if it didn't get to that temp he was slightly lost and panicked.

I thought it was excessive but I did it and it helped me learn how to control my fire.

I believe that having a certain acceptable range for different meats is the logical thing to do.

I think most people try to keep their temps relatively low for ribs.

For briskets and pork butts I have had good results with different temps all over the map with high temps working quite well.

For someone just starting out, guidelines will at least give them some sense of control.

The key to know is that the best cooks are always experimenting and what worked last time won't necessarily work this time.

With experience I have found that times and temperatures can vary greatly especially with briskets.

Every piece of meat is a different animal and some may have tougher muscles or more fat or less fat much like humans lol.

Every piece of brisket needs to be approached on its own as if you are doing it for the first time and yes, it is done when it is done.

I think what some may worry about opening up the smoker too often to poke and check it if is done by feeling. Probably afraid that you will lose temperature control or maybe get a dry product by opening it too often.

Again, have a certain guideline may give you a range that you think it is done.

Nailing it at just the right time to take it out of the smoker along with the proper resting time with precision is not going to be found by reading a thermometer, it is going to be done with your own experience.

That my friends is a much more valuable tool than a 10K dollar smoker, an expensive thermometer or a rolex watch to get your times right.

Pitmaster T
06-26-2011, 03:29 PM
yo baby pop... well said

therms have their place.... tri tip, prime rib, and some parts of the chicken

nic
06-26-2011, 05:28 PM
I thought it was the Crock pot/liquid smoke. Dang.

I completely agree. Its shocking how many restaurants that really should know better get on TV and try to pass that off as BBQ.

SmokinAussie
06-26-2011, 06:40 PM
Aaaaaand BACON! You gotta have a temp probe for bacon:becky:

Cheers!

Bill

Pitmaster T
06-26-2011, 07:59 PM
LOL aussie LOL

Oldschoolbbq
06-26-2011, 08:54 PM
You'll remember me as BBQFANS, having read your threads and as oldschoolbbq ranting about keeping the lid closed,and leaving it closed! I don't profess to be a professional nor do I think my way is best...just that when I Smoke , I do it like the old Black men did when I was young.
You'll know what I'm saying(Funky),get down and ready to cook,and get a hold on your equipment(know it).
Put your meat in their 'sauna' and let them go.Keep them happy by leaving them alone!
When I do a lot of meat at one time,I do like kinds, in the heat they need to be and shut my trap.There's no-one inthere that's gonna steal it, and any Critter wanting "Que" that bad;might be good eats himself!
Point-put meat in the Smoker and LEAVE IT ALONE. Why?
Here's the reason: You create your heat,getting it to cooking temp. and add the meat. Then 10min. later you think,I better check it...WHY?
As you cook, there is a little Atmosphere created in the cooking chamber. This is caused by the heat from your source,which causes pressure(basic Physics),this then heats the meat and the pressure keeps moisture in,that which does come out of the meat , evaporates on the metal of your cooker creating a moist atmosphere.Left alone, the pressures will equal and the moisture in the meat will remain intact.
Also by leaving your lid shut,you get a better Bark and the point will almost fall off the Flat.
Keep doing what you are doing and have fun...

SZtan aka oldschoolbbq :becky:

Qcrazed
06-26-2011, 09:17 PM
now that was a great read frm beginnging to end. rookie myself i totally agree. temp time is ONLY an indicator. some only read what they want then can'nt understand why their stuff was not so good. trial and error is a very good teacher specially when it costs u dollars. some are skilled enough to know by smell noise it makes look. till i get that down my go to is probe melted butta it should b good 2 go. and everything is diff frm ribs shrink factor bend to briskies and shoulders probe. no set time or temp

Porkchop
06-26-2011, 11:39 PM
Mrs Porkchop just casually inquired what I'm reading and I reactively answered "an interesting discussion about how these guys probe their butts" ...I may have some 'splaining to do. :redface:

Pitmaster T
06-27-2011, 11:52 AM
As you cook, there is a little Atmosphere created in the cooking chamber. This is caused by the heat from your source,which causes pressure(basic Physics),this then heats the meat and the pressure keeps moisture in,that which does come out of the meat , evaporates on the metal of your cooker creating a moist atmosphere.Left alone, the pressures will equal and the moisture in the meat will remain intact.
Also by leaving your lid shut,you get a better Bark and the point will almost fall off the Flat.
Keep doing what you are doing and have fun...

SZtan aka oldschoolbbq :becky:
Good thought. thanks for adding to the discussion buddy!

Pitmaster T
07-09-2017, 10:43 PM
Bluedawg!!!!!!

lastmajordude
07-10-2017, 05:12 AM
I for one think the temp probes have made me a better cook. It gives me an IDEA of how close I am. In things like turkey and chicken, knowing the 160-165 breast temp is the difference between good and cardboard. And for brisket....well when it starts getting to 195iish....I start Probing and “squeezing”....first 3 briskets I ever did were on point

Big N Hot
07-10-2017, 08:00 AM
I use to live and die by the internal temp probe. Now I just live and die by my thermapen. Maybe when I'm an old man I'll just look at it. Then die......

bucko
07-10-2017, 08:28 AM
I think it is funny to see people put a probe in a steak my grandkids can tell when a steak is done it's really not that difficult

Pitmaster T
07-10-2017, 10:33 AM
I for one think the temp probes have made me a better cook. It gives me an IDEA of how close I am. In things like turkey and chicken, knowing the 160-165 breast temp is the difference between good and cardboard. And for brisket....well when it starts getting to 195iish....I start Probing and “squeezing”....first 3 briskets I ever did were on point
On point by your standards, right? That is my point. If you cooked the brisket I had last week (that was cooked with 19 others) you would have overlooked it waiting to 195.