They're ALIVE!!!! 2010 Garden Growing Tips, Tricks, Pron Thread

[82muchhomework]

In the epitome of Brethren Spirit, an altruistic brother (who shall remain nameless by his request, unless he should reveal himself) noticed my interest in growing a hot pepper garden and took it upon himself to send me some precious heirloom seeds from his own garden. :becky::becky::becky::becky::becky:

Guajillos, Tepins, Yellow Japs, and Serranos

[Thank you again :wave:]


I planted them immediately and guess what... THEY GREW!!!!:clap2:

I only planted three seeds in each bundle of dirt. There are seeds in every bundle, but there are bound to be duds. The yellow japs are the ones that took off with all three seeds growing together. The tepins, have just one growing in each bundle ( two tepins have sprouted). The guajillos and serranos have not sprouted yet.

Now, I have never had anything sprout after planting seeds. Even in kindergarten my egg carton garden was a dud. So I am incredibly excited about this little bit of success. I need some advice though.

I know this is not a gardening forum, but since many Brothers grow pepper gardens, I think this might be loosely on topic and hopefully immune to moderating. Forgive me if you don't care.



What do I do next????


http://i42.tinypic.com/f2t0g3.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/2cwqt1e.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/a1sivp.jpg

[Midnight Smoke]

Well you can't smoke'm but I would transplant the seedlings to a larger pot with some good soil and use Miracle Grow. Just do not over/under water them.

[82muchhomework]

I think there is a process to go through between now and potting.

And then after the potting, I think they have to be hardened off or something.

I need it explained to me like I'm three. I have no clue and don't want to screw this up.

[Crazy Harry]

Call your county extension, they should have a Master Gardener available to help with your questions. you need a local expertbecause of differing climate conditions.

[BobBrisket]

Whoo Hooo!!! Glad they sprouted for you!!! Now it's a battle of the fittest. I'm looking at the clump of seedlings in the lower right. There are three seedlings and the one on the far right is the tallest. Sad fact, but the smaller two need to be weeded out so that the taller one grows faster. Give em another couple days and pinch off the smaller seedlings. That's what I do so the bigger and taller ones get bigger and taller faster. I must have at least 1000 of those little tepin seedlings all over my garden. They are the stray seeds from last year's pods. They grow like weeds and are very hearty. The beauty of tepins is that the plant grows back every year. SO, you need to plant the tepins in an area with lots of room, sun, and some sort of light cover, like under the roof overhang, under a tree, they like to feel protected. (long story about the origins of tepins being grown in thorny mesquite bushes so that grazing animals could not eat them up), One tepin plant (bush) can get 4-5 feet wide and just as high in the right spot.
I REALLY enjoyed those yellow japs last summer. That plant was a pepper making machine. They won't be very large peppers, but they will have a deep heat!! The serrano seeds were from store bought peppers and the guajillo from dried store bought. They may or my not grow, but give a few more days.
I'd say the japs could go in a pot, but cover em till the seedling gets a little bigger. Birds etc love those tender seedlings.
The tepins.........in the ground for sure!
I'm glad you liked em Brother. Hope they bring you some heat..........tell us what it was like to pop a tepin in your mouth?

Bob

The actual name is chil(i,e)tepin. They are thought to be the Mother of All Peppers and have history as far back as the Aztecs. It's also considered the State Chile of Texas. They are also called Bird's Eye peppers.

[82muchhomework]

I'm glad you liked em Brother. Hope they bring you some heat..........tell us what it was like to pop a tepin in your mouth?

Bob
When I got the care package a few weeks ago I tried one...

I first noticed a visible difference between your tepins, and the dried ones I bought at the carniceria. Yours were brighter and fuller looking (less like dented cans). I sprinkle the carniceria ones over food like black pepper to add some heat. They just aren't that hot.

Having heard that Tepins could be extremely hot, I popped just one, bright colored dried one into my mouth.

Let me tell you what... it was instant heat!:shock: Not a slow building... "oh this ain't so bad" type heat. It was on from the first second. I spit it into the sink by the next second. I LOVE spicy foods, but this was too hot, too fast for what I was expecting.

[82muchhomework]

I just popped another one in my mouth and held it there. The heat is about at the limit of my tolerance. I didn't dare swallow it, or even chew it more than once. My mouth is on fire, my ears feel funny, and I am currently raiding left over Easter candy and breathing through my mouth. :flame:

Here is a pic of Bob's Tepins on the right vs the Carniceria's on the left. They are about the size of an M&M.

The way they look is about how they compare with heat too. One is definitely more lively than the other.

Thanks again Bob.
http://i44.tinypic.com/sy1s83.jpg

[QansasjayhawQ]

I grow a salsa garden from seeds each year. Bob's comments about thinning the herd are right on the money. You asked about 'hardening' them off. What I do is set the flat that the seedlings are in out in the sun and air when the temps are above about 45F I bring them in before it gets dark. Once we are past about two weeks after the average date of the last frost for my area (yours will be way different in your location than mine) I start leaving the flat out over night. Once they are well developed, I transfer them out to the garden and water them down with the MiracleGro water.

Hope this helps!

[Arlin_MacRae]

Keep this thread going!

[Bacchus]

Well you can't smoke'm but I would transplant the seedlings to a larger pot with some good soil and use Miracle Grow. Just do not over/under water them.


Wouldn't that be the $**t.... A new hybrid bud that was smokable and produced a tasty chili.

[wildflower]

Can you smoke that stuff :becky:

[dannypat21]

Now I want to a damn garden of chilis!

[Southern Home Boy]

There's another Brother on here who grows and smokes his own hybrid chilis. He gave me some of the ground up result and man, I tell you what... some of the best chili powder I've ever had. I used it as the base for my rub and it was fantastic.

I'd love to hear his thoughts on this process. I hope he's tuned in...

[BobBrisket]

I grow a salsa garden from seeds each year. Bob's comments about thinning the herd are right on the money. You asked about 'hardening' them off. What I do is set the flat that the seedlings are in out in the sun and air when the temps are above about 45F I bring them in before it gets dark. Once we are past about two weeks after the average date of the last frost for my area (yours will be way different in your location than mine) I start leaving the flat out over night. Once they are well developed, I transfer them out to the garden and water them down with the MiracleGro water.

Hope this helps!

That's a great plan for hardening.
Dave, what is the weather like in Yucaipa during the day and night at this point. That will help us too.

[SmokeJumper]

This is a great thread. I grew chiles for years in Indiana and have built up a modest library of pepper seeds that I collected from market produce and friends. I have been storing some prized chihuacle negro seeds that I was given by a family that we befriended in Oaxaca Mexico last year. This is the "secret" ingredient in Oaxacan Mole Negro and other Oaxacan specialty dishes and I'm sure these would give an amazing deep intense flavor to rubs. These are grown in such limited amounts in Mexico that there is no regular supplier Stateside and they often go for $10/oz dried when you can find them. The weather here in San Francisco (fog) has prevented me from growing these successfully but I would be happy to send some to one of the brethren if they wanted to give it a go. All I ask in return is that you sell me back me a couple of ounces of dried chiles if it works out!

[BobBrisket]

Little bit of info...
The original plant that my grandmother, then all her kids, then my dad, then me and then all of those that me and my dad have given seed and plants too, was growing on my Grandmother's Brother's Farm in Anthony, NM. As a kid I remember going to both of her Bro's farms in the summer to help weed the fields. Old fashioned way.....walk the furrow with a SHARP garden hoe and weed em. (Many a rattlesnake meet up with the sharp garden hoe) I remember the plant being more like a VERY large bush almost a tree with a very thick 4-5 inch trunk. That thing was an old Tepin. Course there were plants growing all over the place, it the ditches, next to the house, in and amongst the salt cedars and even out in the field mixed in with the cotton or chile or onion, whatever they wre growing.

Over the years, my grandmother and her sisters took seeds or shoots and planted them in their yards here in El Paso and I can't think of any family member that doesn't have on in their yard. Even my neighbors all have one courtesy of the birds that feast on the pods and then "deposit" a seed packet in their yards. That's a big reason why these plants are found against rock wall, fences, houses, and under trees. That's where the bird was perched when it dropped the seed. I have two plants in the backyard that were planted by a bird and they are up against our rockwall.

As kids, we got a big kick out of getting the new nieces and nephews that were coming up to eat a berry. Us older ones, would take a berry, pop in in our mouths and pretend to chew it. The younger, gullible cousins would copy us and actually BITE into it.............BAWAAAAAAAHHHHHHAAA! We would laugh our arses off. By this time all our folks considered it a right of passage and we didn't get any heat for tricking em.

I think this will be the year my son or daughter will be tempted. I'm not going to trick them, but I have so many plants, it's just a matter of time that temptation gets the better of them.

Tepins are very versatile. One mature tepin plant will produce more peppers than you will know what to do with. I don't mind sharing with the birds. I mostly pick and dry the pods, then grind them into powder and store in the fridge. From there, I use the powder in salsa (my mom in the Queen of Tepin salsa and NO, she will not share her recipe, not even with me!:cry:). You can also use the powder as a seasoning like salt and pepper on meats, fish, or soups, stews, and CHILI! I also like a crushed green pod or two in a red beer, bloody mary, or even just in a REALLY cold beer. The icy cold and heat are intense.

You can also pick them while they are green and toss them in a bottle of vinegar and have em with your meals. I like to take green ones and toss em in soy sauce. I pop each pod open first so the soy can get inside. I prefer garlic infused Red Wine Vinegar to the plain. Same thing pop the pod or poke a hole in it with a toothpick so the vinegar can get in.

Once the pods are out, you can actually pick them while they are green and sun dry them in a window and they will turn red as they dry. You don't need to wait for them to turn red on the plant.

My house faces East so I think that's a big reason why my maters and peppers do better in the front yard. They get the nice mild morning and early noon sun. The plants in the back get the later hot afternoon sun, but not really all of it, as they are shaded by some trees. Tepins are easy to grow. Their early and wild roots and nature makes them a very hearty plant. Just give em some space to spread out and they will take off. My plants are still going by October, even, into November. They start off slow, then take off mid summer to late summer. When they begin to dry out, I simply cut them down to about 3-4 inches from the ground and leave alone all winter. They have always come back in the spring. They can also be used as a hedge since they grow so big and so fast and since they come back each year.

There are ditches and canals in NM where people go to pick the pods. The ditches are lined with some huge old plants. Lots of history and tradition in those little pods. I know that they do best in the Southwest, from Texas, AZ, NM, and into CA and of course Mexico. I have heard they don't do as well further up where the winters are hard and will kill it off if it's in the ground. A qt. baggie half ways full of Tepin powder will last a long time and is worth it's weight in gold. It takes A LOT of pods to get that much powder.

Bob

[SmokeJumper]

Awesome stories Bob. It is always great to hear good stories of people's geographical and family ties to the "little"ingredients that make all the difference.
I too growing up have fond memories of peppers in the garden. My parents, who moved every three or four years for their careers, always managed to find a plot of land to work near where we lived and cultivated most our produce and my brothers, sisters, and I worked the plot twice a week. Peppers were ALWAYS an important part of the garden equation. Because my Mom was Asian and grew up cooking in the family restaurant we always had four or five hand-me-down Asian heirloom varieties growing along with many from the Southwest and Mexico. We often found that the Asian varieties crossing with the Southern varieties creating new and interesting pepper monsters but these made my mom mad and she made my dad tear them out of the ground. I wish we had saved some of these hybrids although I think my pop still has many of the seeds from the Asian varieties socked away.
Of note, we always raised "HwaJiao" or Sichuan Peppers for spicy dishes. It is a small berry like pepper that gives an awesome heat and fruity flavor to many regional dishes. My favorite featuring these was my grandma's Pork, chive, and taro root dumplings. The heat gives you an awesome numbness/buzzing in your mouth that I would expect you would get by licking on a 9v battery (never tried though, really). I have never found this type of heat from another pepper. I believe Sichuan peppercorns are actually illegal now in the States because they carry a pest that decimates citrus crops but I still have a stack of frozen cryovacked packages the we bust out for family cookouts. We prized these so much we often dug up a plant and tried to take it with us when we moved to a new location.
We also always grew the common "Tien Tsin" long chinese pepper that is similar to a chile arbol. If you have ever eaten kung pao you know what I'm talking about.
Finally, we always had a super long and wide purple variety the size of baby zucchinis that my mom always called "eggplant peppers" that had medium heat and an awesome melon and earth like flavors. We would stuff them with a mixture of pork, garlic and water chestnuts. I'm thinking these would be awesome to smoke- maybe wrapped in bacon. I'm going to have to call my dad and get those seeds while they still germinate!

[82muchhomework]

Dave, what is the weather like in Yucaipa during the day and night at this point. That will help us too.


The weathers been finicky lately. Its about 47F right now and rainy. It dips below 40 at night and reaches about 80 during the day.

My place faces east too. All my plants have to be in the back on the West side of the house. It gets afternoon to evening sun. The summers are typically over 100 and reach 110-115 on the really hot days. I water twice a day on those days.

I have one of those kitchen windows that is made like a mini greenhouse. Everything we have ever put in there has died. Are those things death traps or am I putting the wrong kinds of plants in there? Would the chilis do well in there or better outside?


My other problem is that we are currently renting while I'm still in school (one more year, yeah). I would HATE to have an awesome plant that wont survive a dig up. Would growing the chilis in pots be ok, or should I risk the dig up later when we buy a house.

[bobsuosso]

The weathers been finicky lately. Its about 47F right now and rainy. It dips below 40 at night and reaches about 80 during the day.

My place faces east too. All my plants have to be in the back on the West side of the house. It gets afternoon to evening sun. The summers are typically over 100 and reach 110-115 on the really hot days. I water twice a day on those days.

I have one of those kitchen windows that is made like a mini greenhouse. Everything we have ever put in there has died. Are those things death traps or am I putting the wrong kinds of plants in there? Would the chilis do well in there or better outside?


My other problem is that we are currently renting while I'm still in school (one more year, yeah). I would HATE to have an awesome plant that wont survive a dig up. Would growing the chilis in pots be ok, or should I risk the dig up later when we buy a house.
With the cooler weather up here in NorthEast I prefer growing peppers in pots they warm up quicker in the sun and drain better with heavy rains, of course the size is diminished but the yield is still ok, have done habs, jalapenos, thai's, and tabasco style with no problems, good luck

[Chef Jim]

Well you ARE going to have to do something with them if you want peppers.

I have have had big problems with my garden here in Florida. Bugs and critters. So, I moved mine inside the screen porch and put them in my own version of an Earthbox http://www.earthbox.com/index.php

They are a little pricey but really do work! I make my own now and if you are interested in the plans, send me a PM If others are interested I will post it.

[big brother smoke]

Outstanding edgamacation fellas. I got some japs, Santa Fe Grande, Piemiento, Chili Red and Garden Salsa peppers growing in the back yard in planters. Too many gophers (fencing) to just plant in the backyard.

This thread may need to be Road Mapped!

[big brother smoke]

Well you ARE going to have to do something with them if you want peppers.

I have have had big problems with my garden here in Florida. Bugs and critters. So, I moved mine inside the screen porch and put them in my own version of an Earthbox http://www.earthbox.com/index.php

They are a little pricey but really do work! I make my own now and if you are interested in the plans, send me a PM If others are interested I will post it.

Ummmmm....we are interested, trust me!:thumb:

[82muchhomework]

I found a pdf about DIY earthboxes.

http://www.seattleoil.com/Flyers/Earthbox.pdf

Are your plans like these?

[tpsmith63]

I was just gonna jump in there with a comment on homemade earthboxes 82muchhomework! I did the 5 gallon bucket version last year with some roma tomatoes and green peppers. The peppers died a painful death and I never got more than a couple dozen 'maters. The design worked flawlessly, however. Watering through the tube kept the entire bucket watered. The issue I believe was my choice of potting material. This year I went with the Squarefoot Garden Mix (Vermiculite, Manure, Peat Moss), but it drains so well the 'water up' method of the earthbox may not work. I've only had them up two days so I can't tell yet how that's gonna work.
I for one would like to see what Chef Jim has come up with!

Tom

[82muchhomework]

Well you ARE going to have to do something with them if you want peppers.

I have have had big problems with my garden here in Florida. Bugs and critters. So, I moved mine inside the screen porch and put them in my own version of an Earthbox http://www.earthbox.com/index.php

They are a little pricey but really do work! I make my own now and if you are interested in the plans, send me a PM If others are interested I will post it.

Very interested in your plans. Seems like an interesting idea

[82muchhomework]

I for one would like to see what Chef Jim has come up with!

Tom

I agree. I always prefer a "tried and true" method from a real person rather than experimenting myself.

Bring on the plans Chef Jim.

[SmokeJumper]

It sounds like it might be a fine balance with the earthbox soil for growing peppers. I always had best luck growing peppers in very sandy/loamy soil that drained quickly. This type of soils might not work as well with this design. Has anyone grown peppers successfully in an earthbox?

[n2dabluebbq]

i have one of the generic version of the earthbox. it is very similiar to the one that was posted by "82". we had two mater plants and a jap plant and it produced wonderfully. that was last year and this year we went with one mater and two japs.
i will say that once the plants start maturing, it gets a little difficult to move the box around and also that it is a good idea to come up with something for a tomato cage early on. as it is more difficult to install a "cage" when the maters take off. haha

[BobBrisket]

Awesome stories Bob. It is always great to hear good stories of people's geographical and family ties to the "little"ingredients that make all the difference.
I too growing up have fond memories of peppers in the garden. My parents, who moved every three or four years for their careers, always managed to find a plot of land to work near where we lived and cultivated most our produce and my brothers, sisters, and I worked the plot twice a week. Peppers were ALWAYS an important part of the garden equation. Because my Mom was Asian and grew up cooking in the family restaurant we always had four or five hand-me-down Asian heirloom varieties growing along with many from the Southwest and Mexico. We often found that the Asian varieties crossing with the Southern varieties creating new and interesting pepper monsters but these made my mom mad and she made my dad tear them out of the ground. I wish we had saved some of these hybrids although I think my pop still has many of the seeds from the Asian varieties socked away.
Of note, we always raised "HwaJiao" or Sichuan Peppers for spicy dishes. It is a small berry like pepper that gives an awesome heat and fruity flavor to many regional dishes. My favorite featuring these was my grandma's Pork, chive, and taro root dumplings. The heat gives you an awesome numbness/buzzing in your mouth that I would expect you would get by licking on a 9v battery (never tried though, really). I have never found this type of heat from another pepper. I believe Sichuan peppercorns are actually illegal now in the States because they carry a pest that decimates citrus crops but I still have a stack of frozen cryovacked packages the we bust out for family cookouts. We prized these so much we often dug up a plant and tried to take it with us when we moved to a new location.
We also always grew the common "Tien Tsin" long chinese pepper that is similar to a chile arbol. If you have ever eaten kung pao you know what I'm talking about.
Finally, we always had a super long and wide purple variety the size of baby zucchinis that my mom always called "eggplant peppers" that had medium heat and an awesome melon and earth like flavors. We would stuff them with a mixture of pork, garlic and water chestnuts. I'm thinking these would be awesome to smoke- maybe wrapped in bacon. I'm going to have to call my dad and get those seeds while they still germinate!

You have some great stories of your own, Brother! Too bad those hybrids didn't make it. Who knows what kinda heat and flavor those would have had. This year I only have two pepper plants besides the tepins. A regular jalapeno and a "mammoth" jalapeno. If they produce as much as all my others, I'll have abt's all summer and be able to smoke some chipotles. Between my plants and my dad's we have more chile's than we know what to do with. Lots gets frozen whole and many eaten raw with the meal. Pretty fun to be able to go out and pick your own jalapeno for dinner.

The weathers been finicky lately. Its about 47F right now and rainy. It dips below 40 at night and reaches about 80 during the day.

My place faces east too. All my plants have to be in the back on the West side of the house. It gets afternoon to evening sun. The summers are typically over 100 and reach 110-115 on the really hot days. I water twice a day on those days.

I have one of those kitchen windows that is made like a mini greenhouse. Everything we have ever put in there has died. Are those things death traps or am I putting the wrong kinds of plants in there? Would the chilis do well in there or better outside?


My other problem is that we are currently renting while I'm still in school (one more year, yeah). I would HATE to have an awesome plant that wont survive a dig up. Would growing the chilis in pots be ok, or should I risk the dig up later when we buy a house.
You weather is about the same as here, but once summer rolls in, our nights will be in the high 70's to 80's. I actually hold back the water a little bit and maybe water every couple days in the summer. Too much water will kill off pepper plants. The constant moisture rots the roots and they just don't like it. My soil is also deseret sand that I have built up over many years with grass clippings and ashes. It drains well, yet holds moisture very well for a few days. Once I get grass clippings going, those will serve as mulch. Don't worry about having to dig up the tepins. All of my plants were dug up and replanted, some of them even twice and have taken off each time. As long and you don't sever the main tap root, it will survive a dig just fine.

I wouldn't risk the indoor greenhouse area. The tepins especially prefer outdoors in the soil.

[82muchhomework]

Sounds good Bob. Thanks for the water warning. I'll build a raised planter just for them and mix some sand in the soil for drainage. Will they be ok on the West side of the house?

I'll move a small potted palm near them for "protection" to break up the hottest sun of the day.

[BobBrisket]

I think it should. Once it gets going, it's gonna love the sun and my folks have a few of their plants in full sun all day, and they do just fine. However, my plants are not as mauture as theirs and out grow their plants by almost double. I think a lot has to do with the fact that the area where my parents live was once river bed and has a THICK clay layer about 12 inches deep. Everything they grow has a hard time growing very big. So I think good drainage is key. Try this, plant some seeds in another place. Just make a tiny hole with something and drop in a few seeds. Water and watch.........I bet you they will take off. They grow anywhere.
My problem with pots or containers is I think I'm not watering to often, but I am, the roots rot on me. I've never had good luck with pots. For flowers yes, but veggies, no.

[dunga]

Dude, you need to dig a hole about 1' in diameter and 1-2 feet deep, mix the dirt with aged cow poop, not more than 10-15%, and plant the little farkers. I lived in the OC and spent a lot of time near you, the sooner you get them stared and going the better, it will be blazing there soon enough. Space them out about 2' on all sides and make a watering basin about 18" wide, put a 3'-4' tall stake in next to the root ball when you plant them, this will give you something to tie them as they grow. At first water them only when they need it, ie dry dirt, slightly wilted leaves etc, a lot plants are killed by over watering. Pick a spot with as much sun as your yard will allow, look for a spot with the most hours in the sun. When it is burning hot (particularly when windy), water as needed, you probably won't be able to over water them. Harvest and eat, just be careful with not to rub your eyes after cleaning the peppers.

[Single Fin Smoker]

Currently I am growing Japs, Serrano's, Anahiems, basil, and two types of tomatoes(I for forgot what kind).
All the advice here is good. When I see flowers, I fruits coming right behind.
The peppers are near and dear to my heart.

[82muchhomework]

My problem with pots or containers is I think I'm not watering to often, but I am, the roots rot on me. I've never had good luck with pots. For flowers yes, but veggies, no.

That's Me! I water like mad and I wonder why everything dies. I even throw out the dirt when I start over thinking that I must have poisoned it from too much MiracleGro. The problem will be convincing my wife to stop watering so much too.

I'm going to build another raised bed or two just for the peppers. Then, I'm going to plant some near my little pond where they wont be picked and see if they can make it without any mothering. I think I'll also give the earth box automatic watering idea a shot too. Unfortunately I cant dig a whole and mix manure in it without making a raised bed. The gardeners will just run it over (like they do to my hose every year; and a few matchbox cars too).

[82muchhomework]

Dude, you need to dig a hole about 1' in diameter and 1-2 feet deep, mix the dirt with aged cow poop, not more than 10-15%, and plant the little farkers. I lived in the OC and spent a lot of time near you, the sooner you get them stared and going the better, it will be blazing there soon enough. Space them out about 2' on all sides and make a watering basin about 18" wide, put a 3'-4' tall stake in next to the root ball when you plant them, this will give you something to tie them as they grow. At first water them only when they need it, ie dry dirt, slightly wilted leaves etc, a lot plants are killed by over watering. Pick a spot with as much sun as your yard will allow, look for a spot with the most hours in the sun. When it is burning hot (particularly when windy), water as needed, you probably won't be able to over water them. Harvest and eat, just be careful with not to rub your eyes after cleaning the peppers.

Or take a wiz... like I did today:mad2:

My wife was probably wondering why I went to take a shower in the middle of the day with a large cold glass of milk in my hand. :crazy:

[frognot]

timely thread. I didn't have any success with peppers from seeds last year so have planted 3 jalapeno and 3 habanero plants a couple of weeks ago. Looking forward to learning how to grow these so thanks for this thread.

[tpsmith63]

Or take a wiz... like I did today:mad2:

My wife was probably wondering why I went to take a shower in the middle of the day with a large cold glass of milk in my hand. :crazy:

Don't do that when clearing brush either. Poison Ivy. :mad2:, for days and days.

Tom

[Chef Jim]

I found a pdf about DIY earthboxes.

http://www.seattleoil.com/Flyers/Earthbox.pdf

Are your plans like these?

Mine are very similar to these but seem a little less work and look better. Girl things, if you know what I mean. I must say that the use of storage tubs looks like a good idea, and might be just a little less expensive.

Over all these plans look good.

I have one of mine in the works and will try to get some prons posted of how I did it and some of the working ones too. Not sure how long it will take but will try to do it today whilst I am watching my Salmon smoke.:clap2::clap2:

[BobBrisket]

To show you how well they grow and how little to no attention the Tepins need.......all of these little shoots are Tepin seedlings that cam up all by themselves. The plants drop so many pods that the seeds come up all on their own in the spring. I hafta till these over cause there's no way I could let them all grow. But this shows how easy to grow they are.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4068/4543546104_9dc1a1bb3e_o.jpg
Here are the plants I have up front. The two in the front are the orginal ones I brought over from my dad's. They are under a Spanish Broom tree and up against the house. The ones in the back are ones that I then transplanted there. I use them as cover and they will get as high as half way up the windows, easily. This year I'm going to use some tomato cages on them so they grow "upward" a little more. They get so wide that they can choke off my maters and pepper plants. I think it should work to keep them in line a little more.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4047/4542913325_2736bc7dff_o.jpg
Here's one of the wild ones that's in the backyard....this one came out all on it's own from a bird dropping. This one has one of the thickest trunks on it, probably cause it's squeezing through the concrete and bricks. The leaves one this one are HUGE. It's going to be a good year for this one. Plus, as you can see, they are a really nice plant all on their own too. They make for great decorative bushes too.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4065/4543545998_d385414c78_o.jpg
This one is a two year old plant and another one the birds planted for me. It's off to a slow start but you can see a shoot off to the top left. In only two years, you can see how thick the trunk got. That's how I prune them back every late fall (November). These plants have a late growing season and will be producing late into fall.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4046/4542914067_b527c2d2ba_o.jpg


Dave---Maybe we can turn your thread into the "Official 2010 Garden Thread" since it seems to be going in that direction anyway. One place where we can share tips, secrets, pics, and later on...........GARDEN PRON!!! Lemme know if you wouldn't mind a full HIJACK of your thread and I can add a label to your title. This way we won't have several threads about the same topic and have it all in one place.

Bob

[Chef Jim]

OK, here goes! I'm not real good at this so let me know if you think I forgot something.

First the things you need, some kind of a box. Mine are a little smaller than the original Earthbox so you can't put as much in them. I got the box at HD cause that's all I could find. The wife loves them so they must be good.

http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae265/chef-jim/Garden/Box.jpg

Notice the hole I drilled, it is placed at the height of the grate that will go in the box. Drill it after you have everything assembled.

Next is the guts. I used a thin sheet of black pvc, Whatever you can find. I drilled holes for drainage and cut a square out at the diagonal corners.

Then the same material for the top with two 2 in. keyholes for the plants. Three or four pieces
of 4 in. pvc pipe. For this box 1 1/4 wide and then cut in half. you will use this to support the bottom grate.

Next is piece of thinwall pipe 1 1/4, your fill pipe. Thin wall makes it easy to fill the reservoir.

http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae265/chef-jim/Garden/Items-needed.jpg

Glue the pvc pieces to the bottom of the box. Just random to support the grate.
http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae265/chef-jim/Garden/Box-inside.jpg

Now put the bottom grate in and gage where the top is and then drill the hole right at that level. Then insert the fill pipe in the same side as the hloe you just drilled. That's so you can see when water starts to come out and you can let go of the hose or what ever it is you art going to use to water it.

http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae265/chef-jim/Garden/Box-Grid.jpg

Next add potting soil almost to the top. At that point I mix in some vermiculite and cover with more soil.

Then make a trough in the soil for fertilizer and add some slow release stuff, then cover with dirt.

http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae265/chef-jim/Garden/Fertilizer.jpg

Now you should water the dirt from the top and add water in the reservoir till it runs out the hole.

You are now ready to plant whatever. I used the same pvc as in the grate for the top, but you can use anything. If you are in a colder climate use a black garbage bag, in warmer climates you might want to use white.

The purpose of the top cover is to keep out weeds etc I supose mulch would work also.

http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae265/chef-jim/Garden/Ready.jpg

Some of the finished products. An original earthbox with a blueberry plant in the middle. Stuff around it is seeds planted for the next boxes. Pole beans and Cucumbers.

http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae265/chef-jim/Garden/Blueberry.jpg

Tomatoes planted about 4 weeks ago.

http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae265/chef-jim/Garden/Tomatos.jpg

Herbs in the kitchen window.

http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae265/chef-jim/Garden/Window-Box.jpg

Zuccini from seed.

http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae265/chef-jim/Garden/Zuccini.jpg

And peppers just started this week. Don't know if you can see it but there are pineapples on the outside.

http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae265/chef-jim/Garden/Peppers.jpg

And for whoever mentioned that they are hard to move, you're darn right, so I put them on a board with casters. Almost killed me when we had the freeze here in sunny Florida

Just add water.:clap2::clap2::clap2:

[BobBrisket]

I might hafta give those boxes a try! Gorgeous looking plants by the way.

Bob

[landarc]

I do not think, I let the peppers get a true set of leave, or maybe two is better, then I soak the root ball, seperate the seedling and replant them all. I will only transplant up once before setting them out. I like to see at least two full sets of leaves on each plant. I harden off by puttint them outside in the shade for 1/2 days for a couple of days, then full days in shade for a few days, then all night for a couple days, total time is probably a week. I am just about ready to start hardening off my tomatoes and most of the peppers.

[82muchhomework]

Bob, Hijack away. What ever you want to do.
Thanks for those pictures, really. Now I know what to look for. Until your pics I hadn't really ever seen one. Thanks.

CJ, Great tutorial! I think I'll give it a go on my next break from work.

[BobBrisket]

Bob, Hijack away. What ever you want to do.
Thanks for those pictures, really. Now I know what to look for. Until your pics I hadn't really ever seen one. Thanks.

CJ, Great tutorial! I think I'll give it a go on my next break from work.

Done. This should be FUN!! Great info in this thread. Let's keep in going.

Bob

[landarc]

I wish tepin grew like weeds here, but, that is not the case.

[Chef Jim]

Bob, Hijack away. What ever you want to do.
Thanks for those pictures, really. Now I know what to look for. Until your pics I hadn't really ever seen one. Thanks.

CJ, Great tutorial! I think I'll give it a go on my next break from work.

Thanks, Glad I was able to help. :becky:

[SmokeJumper]

Great writeup CJ! I will have to give that a go for blueberries here on my sundeck. The caster mod is a great idea. We often rearrange our sundeck plants for cookouts and the fruit trees in wine barrels always murder my back.

[Wallaby]

The Earthbox looks like a good idea. Another one is straw bales. take your standard sraw bale soak with water, lay on their wide side, poke hole for plants, add a little potting soil and add plants. The bales will hold water forever and will last one or two seasons. When their done break them up fot compost.

Bob take your peppers add to olive oil and boil till peppers are soft and mushy. Do this out side. I do this Japs and get great hot oil.

Mike

[Chef Jim]

Straw Bales sounds like a good idea but I would think it might be messy on the patio, yes?

On the other hand, a unique idea for outside, Yes?

This is going to be fun!:clap2::clap2:

[Wallaby]

Here are complete instructions for strawbale gardens.

http://www.natorp.com/wordpress/#tmp

mike

[tpsmith63]

I'm inspired. I went the dual 5 gallon bucket method last year. Changed up the growing medium this year, though. But it seems more suited to a single item, like my tomatoes. One of the disadvantages to the bucket system is that the depth of the buckets may be overkill, requiring too much material.
I'm gonna do the Garage Sale/Wally World/Home Improvement store rounds this weekend and see if I can't scare up some planters and material to put together something more like yours. The plastic divider may be the hardest part. I might be able to find a garage sale planter for 50 cents.

[BobBrisket]

Here's a little "Before" pron. It wil be cool to look at the growth a few months from now.
Maters: Red and Yellow Cherry and Red Grape.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4006/4542913277_f373251d90_o.jpg
Let's hope these are really Mammoth Japs!
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4051/4542913911_5d1cfbe40c_o.jpg
Basil Forrest is coming BACK!! These are all the seeds that last year's plants dropped. Even found a bird egg shell.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4049/4542914043_a9a7e280a1_o.jpg
Corn and Giant Sunflowers. This is where our dog kennel was. I'm debating whether to turn it into a raised patio area for my grills or a garden. Had to kid proof the seedlings.:becky:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4016/4543546062_2f4bf3e177_o.jpg
Onions! My son already told me he wants to eat em raw like last year. Lime and salt on the onion and him and my daughter eat em up. Their breath STINKS........but we still eat em like that.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4038/4543545938_e3e56eb63c_o.jpg
And you can barely see some carrot seedlings.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4057/4542913337_e6029409dd_o.jpg

I can't wait!!!

[SmokeJumper]

Nice garden pictures Bob. Your onion eating technique reminds me of an Italy trip with t he wife last summer where we spontaneously ended up at a local festival eating hardwood charred spring onions and drinking red wine for most the day. I swear I tasted onions in my mouth for the next week.

I'm looking forward to seeing late summer pictures with Peppers. Lots and lots of peppers...

[82muchhomework]

Bob your a regular old Farmer John! Hope your sausage doesn't start grease fires like his do.:mad2:

Ive got a Bonnie's Mammoth Jalapeno too. About that size. mine is in a raised planter and surrounded by zucchini, eggplant, and an early girl tomato and a celebrity tomato plant. I think its a little bit crowded but we don't know what we're doing. I'll get some pron this weekend for my "before's" on those. I think its going to get ugly in that little planter.

I'm going to build another one for the Tepins and Yellow Japs.


Bob, I submit for discussion to make it a BBQ patio surrounded by a raised bed for a chili exclusive planter box.

[big brother smoke]

Here are some pics of my fledgeling planters:

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g93/bigbrothersmoke/DSC05299.jpg

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g93/bigbrothersmoke/DSC05302.jpg

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g93/bigbrothersmoke/DSC05298.jpg

Japs
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g93/bigbrothersmoke/DSC05303.jpg

Roma Mater
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g93/bigbrothersmoke/DSC05306.jpg

I am sure Ross in Ventura will have some additions to this thread!

[Chef Jim]

Here are complete instructions for strawbale gardens.

http://www.natorp.com/wordpress/#tmp

mike
Very interesting, sounds inexpensive too.

[BobBrisket]

Bob your a regular old Farmer John! Hope your sausage doesn't start grease fires like his do.:mad2:

Ive got a Bonnie's Mammoth Jalapeno too. About that size. mine is in a raised planter and surrounded by zucchini, eggplant, and an early girl tomato and a celebrity tomato plant. I think its a little bit crowded but we don't know what we're doing. I'll get some pron this weekend for my "before's" on those. I think its going to get ugly in that little planter.

I'm going to build another one for the Tepins and Yellow Japs.


Bob, I submit for discussion to make it a BBQ patio surrounded by a raised bed for a chili exclusive planter box.

Well, we are pretty much done with dogs, big ones anyways. So I won't be putting a dog run there anymore. What I was thinking, if you all can imagine it and then maybe give me some ideas, is I wanted to raise it up 1 or maybe two railroad ties high, backfill with red desert sand. THe sand will only go as high as the 1st tie, put down pavers or flagstone. From there I wanted to leave a 12 inch planting bed along the right side where the grass is. In this bed I can still grow veggies or a nice herb garden. Then I could put some screening on the chain link and put my gasser and the kettle up there along with a patio table and chairs for some Alfresco dining.

On the topic of straw bales, be careful where you place the bales. My dad tried this one year, and the bales will attract mice. They love nesting in the stuff. To top it off they had a perfect food supply near by, dog food and chicken scratch. They didn't really mind, until one of them got in the house. So beware. I've read that they make for some great growing though.

[82muchhomework]

bobaftt posted a link to a nice PDF for something called an EarthTainer in separate thread. I thought it was valuable information that may not get the exposure it deserves. It is right along the same lines as Chef Jim's Earthbox. Since this is now the gardening thread for 2010, I thought that folks who didn't catch his post might want to take a look at it.

The link is http://earthtainer.tomatofest.com/pdfs/EarthTainer-Construction-Guide.pdf

The credit goes to bobaftt

[Chef Jim]

bobaftt posted a link to a nice PDF for something called an EarthTainer in separate thread. I thought it was valuable information that may not get the exposure it deserves. It is right along the same lines as Chef Jim's Earthbox. Since this is now the gardening thread for 2010, I thought that folks who didn't catch his post might want to take a look at it.

The link is http://earthtainer.tomatofest.com/pdfs/EarthTainer-Construction-Guide.pdf

The credit goes to bobaftt


Please let me set the record straight. I recommended the Earthbox for those that can't grow, or do not have the room to garden. They make a quality product. They can be found at:

http://www.earthbox.com/index.php

I did however post instructions on how one might construct a similar item. It is not an Earthbox and I would never want someone to think that it is!

82 I know where you are coming from but just thought I might nip something in the bud.

[82muchhomework]

Please let me set the record straight. I recommended the Earthbox for those that can't grow, or do not have the room to garden. They make a quality product. They can be found at:

http://www.earthbox.com/index.php

I did however post instructions on how one might construct a similar item. It is not an Earthbox and I would never want someone to think that it is!

82 I know where you are coming from but just thought I might nip something in the bud.

Sorry Man, I didn't mean to stir up a creative rights argument. By calling it "CJ's Earthbox," I meant that it was your suggestion and tutorial, not that "EarthBox" was your product. I just was trying to make sure that you got credit for your suggestion and tutorial, as did bobaftt for his.

I'm sure there will be a lot of UEBs (Ugly Earth Boxes) made to grow peppers in on account of your suggestion.

[Chef Jim]

82, no need for apologies, as I tried to say, just didn't want it to go there.

I really like UEB,:laugh::laugh::laugh: Guess we should call it that from now on!:clap2:

[BobBrisket]

This is a great thread. I grew chiles for years in Indiana and have built up a modest library of pepper seeds that I collected from market produce and friends. I have been storing some prized chihuacle negro seeds that I was given by a family that we befriended in Oaxaca Mexico last year. This is the "secret" ingredient in Oaxacan Mole Negro and other Oaxacan specialty dishes and I'm sure these would give an amazing deep intense flavor to rubs. These are grown in such limited amounts in Mexico that there is no regular supplier Stateside and they often go for $10/oz dried when you can find them. The weather here in San Francisco (fog) has prevented me from growing these successfully but I would be happy to send some to one of the brethren if they wanted to give it a go. All I ask in return is that you sell me back me a couple of ounces of dried chiles if it works out!

Thanks Brother!! As you can see, Jumper was kind enough to send me some of his heirloom seeds. I'm gonna need some Brethren Mojo to help me get these seeds going. I'll be planting tomorrow and hopefully will have some peppers to ship off at the end of the season or at least to create more seed. Thanks again, Robert! I apprecite it. I hope I can get em going.

Thanks!!

Bob
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4003/4548351611_622537ebb7.jpg

[bobaftt]

thanks for moving it over here. I am going to try the earthbox suggestion on this one as it is substantially cheaper.

[landarc]

Bob, that Chilhaucle negro is an excellent chile, been growing them for a few years now. It is truly a great mole chile and one of the classics. I also use the dried pods in my home made chile powder once I get em dried up. It was pretty hard to find here for years, still not a common pepper in seed catalogs. If the seeds are fresh, you should be able to get em going easily.

[BobBrisket]

Bob,
How do you go about drying the pods? Are these like a Big Jim where you let them go red on the vine, then pick and sun dry?

Bob

[SmokeJumper]

Bob,
That is great you already have the seeds in hand! Good old pony express can be fast! I sent two other small packets of the chihuacles out in two other map directions so hopefully all of you will get them up and going. It is great to hear Bob (landarc - this Bob/Rob thing is going to get tricky) knows the great attributes of these peppers and is able to grow them well. Maybe you can give us some pointers down the road on how to grow these if any challenges arise.

[landarc]

I let them hang on the plant until they turn a very dark brown, if they turn tan or start to yellow, they hung too long and are over-ripe. When they look like they are made from chocolate, you are good. I find that they are a little thicker skinned, sort of like jalapenos, so I usually split them and dehydrate them, But, I tried hanging them in ristras about 3 feet above the stove and they dried whole beautifully. I also tried smoking them, I mean, why not, at a low drying heat and found that they worked well that way too. I put a small slit in the end, put it over some oak and smoked over 150F for several hours, then hung over stove until dry. You probably can do the whole thing outside down there.

[BobBrisket]

Bob,
That is great you already have the seeds in hand! Good old pony express can be fast! I sent two other small packets of the chihuacles out in two other map directions so hopefully all of you will get them up and going. It is great to hear Bob (landarc - this Bob/Rob thing is going to get tricky) knows the great attributes of these peppers and is able to grow them well. Maybe you can give us some pointers down the road on how to grow these if any challenges arise.

Hopefully between all of us we can at least get some pods grown for more seed at the very least. I finally found some pics of them. They are like a small bell pepper. From what you all have said and from what I've read, they seem to be a flavor packed pepper!! I'll do my best. Thanks again.

Bob

[landarc]

Yes, they are like a small bell pepper, to that end some fun can be had...never mind...they are easy to grow if you get a good heat and regular but, not excessive water. If you give it irregular water, it can get rotten on ends. That will not be a problem in Texas I bet.
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u105/landarc/PA185409.jpg?t=1272144700
Bob, in that photo above, you will see some brown looking bell pepper-like peppers, those are the chilhaucle negro, for some reason, a couple of years ago they grew huge. Mostly they should look like the three in the middle, sort of twice as large as a habanero. On the lower right corner are some hybrid Holy Mole peppers that I tried and found to be pretty good too. You can see the brown color in this photo pretty well.

[Jeff Selle]

Great thread, I see a lot of BBQ brethern share similar interests. My wife is a huge gardener. She actually took over my beer blog this year with all her gardening buddies, if you have gardening questions, she probably has the answers. You can check it out here: http://bentsbeergarden.blogspot.com/

[BobBrisket]

Yes, they are like a small bell pepper, to that end some fun can be had...never mind...they are easy to grow if you get a good heat and regular but, not excessive water. If you give it irregular water, it can get rotten on ends. That will not be a problem in Texas I bet.
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u105/landarc/PA185409.jpg?t=1272144700
Bob, in that photo above, you will see some brown looking bell pepper-like peppers, those are the chilhaucle negro, for some reason, a couple of years ago they grew huge. Mostly they should look like the three in the middle, sort of twice as large as a habanero. On the lower right corner are some hybrid Holy Mole peppers that I tried and found to be pretty good too. You can see the brown color in this photo pretty well.

WOW!! My mouth is watering looking at dem peppers and eggplant!! YUUMMO!! Okay, those are not gonna turn and dry like the long green chile that I am used to!! Don't have a dehydrator, but my folks do. Better yet, I can use the GOSM and set it low with a chunk or two of wood and quick dry em that way. Those thick skinned, thick fleshed pepperw will mold before the dry. Thanks Bob.
I'm on a mission now!

Bob

[landarc]

Weirdly enough, the skin is not that thick. You will see.

[BobBrisket]

Is the flesh thick like a bell, or thinner? If thinner, I may try to air dry in the 100+ degree summer heat hung on a string. I'm hoping they sprout. I'd like to have a new challenge like this for a great pay out!! Keep the advice coming!
Bob

[landarc]

It is thinner, I was able to get them air-dried.

[Saiko]

I know this is a complete thread derailment, but I have that exact same Kenmore washer.
Back to topic: Georgia gets a ton of rain usually so I've never really experimented with peppers. Growing some Serrano this year to see how it goes, I may expand depending on the results.

[Chef Jim]

82, no need for apologies, as I tried to say, just didn't want it to go there.

I really like UEB,:laugh::laugh::laugh: Guess we should call it that from now on!:clap2:
Wife says the boxes are not ugly so we will need a new name. :crazy:

[bobaftt]

dumb question. I am trying to build some of the boxes from 82's link. The ones I am trying to build only use one tote. what do you use for the wicking chamber? It's very obvious on the two tote model but I can't seem to visualize it on the one tote... Anybody out there that has built similar ones have any ideas?

[Saiko]

My backyard is mostly trees, so I only have this tiny stretch of earth on the SE side of the yard that gets enough sun for an herb/tomato garden.
This year's crop: Celebrity tomato, Roma tomato, Husky Cherry Red tomato, Serrano chili, rosemary (only survivor from last year), sweet basil X2, Greek oregano, German thyme, sweet mint, curly parsley and cilantro.
Chicken wire is for the farken deer, we have idiots in our neighborhood that feed them, so they don't have any fear and will walk right up to your front door and eat your plants. Couple of years ago they ate every single tomato on my plants in a single night. Rat bastards, I hate them.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p236/mredman62/Misc/garden-1.jpg

[bobaftt]

saiko thats could be tasty. take up archery. There is nothing like a backstrap on the grill

[Chef Jim]

dumb question. I am trying to build some of the boxes from 82's link. The ones I am trying to build only use one tote. what do you use for the wicking chamber? It's very obvious on the two tote model but I can't seem to visualize it on the one tote... Anybody out there that has built similar ones have any ideas?
What are you going to use to keep the bottom where the soil sits off the bottom of the crate?

Depending on that height you can do it a few ways. If you want a deep reservoir use a basket like shown on the plans or a pool filter basket. Be sure to support the whole thing though.

I don't use a basket on mine because the reservoir is not that deep. I just cut out a corner, two for your size in the back and pack down some soil in it for the wick.

[bobaftt]

What are you going to use to keep the bottom where the soil sits off the bottom of the crate?

Depending on that height you can do it a few ways. If you want a deep reservoir use a basket like shown on the plans or a pool filter basket. Be sure to support the whole thing though.

I don't use a basket on mine because the reservoir is not that deep. I just cut out a corner, two for your size in the back and pack down some soil in it for the wick.


I am using 3" pvc pipes. I guess I could drill a bunch of holes in the support and pack the dirt down in 2 of the supports?

[landarc]

Saiko,
I have a friend in Mississippi who grows peppers quite easily. One of the things he does is use raised beds to make sure drainage is good. Peppers are pretty tough plants, if you can grow tomatoes, you can grow peppers.

Now, appliance talk, I do like that washer, it works great and was cheap due to a dent or two.

[Chef Jim]

I am using 3" pvc pipes. I guess I could drill a bunch of holes in the support and pack the dirt down in 2 of the supports?

Bob, you want something with a lot of holes so you don't loose any moisture. I am thinking that you might want to try to find a basket as close to that size or adjust your support to fit.

[bobaftt]

I wish I had seen your reply before building them. I can go back and drill a million holes in the two wicking chambers. I took pictures once I get it all done I will post them before I fill them with dirt.

[Chef Jim]

I wish I had seen your reply before building them. I can go back and drill a million holes in the two wicking chambers. I took pictures once I get it all done I will post them before I fill them with dirt.
Should work any way. This is not rocket science.:becky:

[82muchhomework]

dumb question. I am trying to build some of the boxes from 82's link. The ones I am trying to build only use one tote. what do you use for the wicking chamber? It's very obvious on the two tote model but I can't seem to visualize it on the one tote... Anybody out there that has built similar ones have any ideas?

Wasn't that was your link brother? :confused:

[82muchhomework]

Thanks SmokeJumper! I started an overnight presoak on the seeds. Only a few sunk right away. I bought another one of those burpy seed starter mini greenhouses for these guys. Hopefully, we will get few to grow and will use them to start a seed supply to resupply your collection and for everyone else who wants to grow some.

I also found a great site that has a whole tutorial on starting peppers from seeds and a huge database of info.

http://www.thechileman.org

http://i39.tinypic.com/2ntikb4.jpg



This is the raised planter that i built. It has two mater plants in the back, a Jumbo Jalapeno in the middle, an eggplant and a zucchini plant in the front. I'm going to make two more. One for BobBriskets seedlings (Tepins and Yellow Japs as of right now), and one for SmokeJumpers heirlooms.

I just bought some new supplies at Lowes to build some more. I use one 2x2 furring strip ($1.50) and 8 3.5in fence slats (1.50 each). So they cost less than $15 plus dirt. They can be made with wider fence slats (5inches) that cost $.02 more than the 3.5incers and the total cost is closer to $10 plus dirt.

http://i44.tinypic.com/b5gv91.jpg


There are some holes in my eggplant leaves and some little ones in the zucchini leaves. Anybody have a suggestion or idea whats going on?

[landarc]

My first thought is flea beetles, but, one of those holes looks pretty large and flea beetles make smaller holes normally. If they are pin holes, go with insecticidal soap (test on plant first in a little area). Larger holes might indicate the presence of worms or slugs, that just takes a close look for their presence.

[Chef Jim]

I've used Neem oil, seemed to work last year.

[landarc]

Neem oil works too, again, check on a small part of the plant first for a day or two, sometimes soap or neem can damage plants.

[82muchhomework]

Could be slugs. We have a ton of them out here. Which one should I try first, neem or soap?

[BobBrisket]

I just SALTED about 15 slugs the other day. Keep in mind, they LOVE to set up shop under pots, planters, etc, you will not see em, but they are down there. I found em by accident, and went crazy on em!!

[landarc]

Either Neem or soap, whatever one you can find. Do not use dishwasher soap remedies you find on-line.

[SmokeJumper]

Thanks SmokeJumper! I started an overnight presoak on the seeds. Only a few sunk right away. I bought another one of those burpy seed starter mini greenhouses for these guys. Hopefully, we will get few to grow and will use them to start a seed supply to resupply your collection and for everyone else who wants to grow some.


I'm glad you received the seeds Dave. Best of luck with the germination. With all of you giving these a go I have pepper growing envy so I begged a small spot on a friend's patio down on the peninsula where they don't get fog and will give a handful of the chilhuacle seeds a try myself. One of us has to hit paydirt...

[SmokeJumper]

I also found a great site that has a whole tutorial on starting peppers from seeds and a huge database of info.

http://www.thechileman.org


There are some holes in my eggplant leaves and some little ones in the zucchini leaves. Anybody have a suggestion or idea whats going on?

The chileman link is great! Tons of useful info there to help us all.

I have slugs and snails here that attack my berries, citrus, apples and herbs nonstop and the best solution by far that I have found for planter boxes and pots is copper foil tape. These slimers hate copper and won't cross it. It is also nontoxic, organic and doesn't need reapplication.

[openstudent]

for slugs and snail,go out at night with a flashlight and check your plants,if they are there you'll see them. or put out a pie tin of beer, they love beer. or better yet, give me the beer and i'll come over with a flashlight.

[bobaftt]

Wasn't that was your link brother? :confused:

I was wrong again. I think it was actually chef jims link.

[82muchhomework]

I was wrong again. I think it was actually chef jims link.

:confused::doh:I'm thoroughly confused. Its common. Ask my wife.

[82muchhomework]

I went to Lowes and was asking what kind of fertilizer would be best for the chili seedlings.

Um... they didn't know. So they asked their vendor who said that any general fertilizer would do. Then they sold me on this stuff called "Superthrive."

Anyway, I came home and did some searches. Superthrive is a hormone and vitamin mix that the Pot growing forums talk about. Some say its snake oil, some say it saved their prized plants. Most say that it promotes root growth and actually works.

I also found out that seedlings don't need fertilizer until their first two "real leaves" grow. This is after the first two "fake" leaves I presume. The fertilizer to use is one high in phosphorus (the middle number in the NPK recipe like Fish emulsion is 5-1-1). One specifically mentioned 2-4-2 as being good for growing seedlings.

Anyway, all I know about fertilizer is that you can end up burning your plants if you use too much.

Can anybody help me out here with some suggestions... What to use, when to use it, how to do it?

Thanks

[landarc]

I do not fertilize until I have at least one set of true leaves. The "fake" leaves are cotyledons and serve the purpose of providing some nutrients for the plant while the roots are establishing and the leaves are developing structure. I like to use a very dilute fertilizer solution of about 4:1 water to normal fertilizer dilution. That is to say, I mix up a quart of fertiliser solution per instructions, then add one gallon on water to make a very dilute solution. I add this to soil after first leaves develop and again after transplant, or about two weeks later at most.

I prefer organic fertilizers with a nutrient blend of 1-1.5-1 or 1-3-2 for nutrient values. Yes the numbers are low, but the ratio is what I am most interested in and I have found these formulas work well. I am not sure about Superthrive, I have never used that, I assume it is similar to Miracle-Gro which I do not use, although I have used it once the plants are growing with good results. I find that these super fertilizers can cause too much foliar growth and over feed nitrogen which can be a bad thing in tomatoes and peppers as it can encourage blossom end rot.

[82muchhomework]

I do not fertilize until I have at least one set of true leaves. The "fake" leaves are cotyledons and serve the purpose of providing some nutrients for the plant while the roots are establishing and the leaves are developing structure. I like to use a very dilute fertilizer solution of about 4:1 water to normal fertilizer dilution. That is to say, I mix up a quart of fertiliser solution per instructions, then add one gallon on water to make a very dilute solution. I add this to soil after first leaves develop and again after transplant, or about two weeks later at most.

I prefer organic fertilizers with a nutrient blend of 1-1.5-1 or 1-3-2 for nutrient values. Yes the numbers are low, but the ratio is what I am most interested in and I have found these formulas work well. I am not sure about Superthrive, I have never used that, I assume it is similar to Miracle-Gro which I do not use, although I have used it once the plants are growing with good results. I find that these super fertilizers can cause too much foliar growth and over feed nitrogen which can be a bad thing in tomatoes and peppers as it can encourage blossom end rot.

Man you are a wealth of information Landarc.

Do you recommend a specific brand fertilizer?

[landarc]

Oh, I see you are in CA, see if you can get Dr. Earth or Fox Farms. Both are good brands, I happen to like all of their products.

For Fox Farms, I use the Big Bloom for initial dilution fert and then grow big for first month then back to Big Bloom after first blooms hit.

For Dr. Earth, I use the Liquid Solution for initial dilute formula and then as a foliar feed once growth starts. Then I switch to Big Bloom once flowering really gets going.

In any case, I probably fertilize twice during foliar growth stage and then twice during flower set. After fruit forms, no more fertilizer for my plants.

[ALX]

Great thread....Pepers and veggies and Meat...Get some...


My stand..doing 100 peppeers and 75 tomatoes with a full compliment...

http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt85/69alex/lambngarden002.jpg

http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt85/69alex/lambngarden007.jpg

http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt85/69alex/garden007.jpg


http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt85/69alex/garden017.jpg

[82muchhomework]

Oh, I see you are in CA, see if you can get Dr. Earth or Fox Farms. Both are good brands, I happen to like all of their products.

For Fox Farms, I use the Big Bloom for initial dilution fert and then grow big for first month then back to Big Bloom after first blooms hit.

For Dr. Earth, I use the Liquid Solution for initial dilute formula and then as a foliar feed once growth starts. Then I switch to Big Bloom once flowering really gets going.

In any case, I probably fertilize twice during foliar growth stage and then twice during flower set. After fruit forms, no more fertilizer for my plants.

Thanks Landarc. Dr. Earth sells at a nursery 3 miles from my place. I would never have thought to go there since they are back in a canyon and are very hidden.

ALX- Thats an impressive set up there. Break out the tips and tricks. One does not plow a field without knowing what they are doing first. Well... I take that back. That would be just like me to dive in head first without even filling the pool. What kind of peppers are you growing and what is your procedure?

[SmokeJumper]

I use Superthrive a few times a year on my houseplants to promote new growth and root development but it is definitely not a general use fertilizer. I religiously use Fox Farms fertilizer on all my fruits and herbs with great results.

[chobint]

Ok, so here's my how to on some amazing window boxes and pics of my setup.

My mom gave me a self watering planter a while ago (http://www.gardeners.com/31%22-Windowbox/34-499RS,default,pd.html# (http://www.gardeners.com/31%22-Windowbox/34-499RS,default,pd.html#)). She swears by the thing and it seems to work very well, but as you can see from the link they are about 35 bucks. So here is a way to get the same effect, for considerably less. The only feature the homegrown version is missing is an overflow drain. This lets the excess water drain out the bottom if you go nuts on watering, so that the roots don't get waterlogged.

The concept behind the self watering box.
1) Lets you water less frequently for maximum laziness. If you wanna be super lazy tho, get an aerogarden. The thing just grows itself.
2) The drainage area helps prevent root rot from waterlogged roots.
3) Because the lower layers of soil are wetter and the upper layers are drier, it simulates the hydroponic flood and drain technique. It is of course not nearly as effective as hydroponic growth but operates under the same concept. By watering from the bottom up, the moisture gradient forces the roots to grow deeper for more water. More roots = more growth. To achieve this you don't want to water it so that it's sopping wet all the time. Water it well, then let the water level drop under the gravel.
4) edit: not sure how I forgot this one. Watering down the tube prevents soil washout on the surface which is especially important when trying to water seedlings.

Step 1: Get the stuff


1x Bag of gravel ($2.75 would probably fill 8-10 planters). I got river rock b/c it's hard and won't crumble all over the box. The large stones also provide larger reservoir volume than something like pea gravel (At least I think?).
1x Bag of your favorite potting soil (6$ filled 2.5x 11qt planters).
1x Cheap window box WITHOUT drain holes. ($8 for 31" planter). A box with drains makes this technique completely pointless.
1x Plastic tube ($2), preferably as wide as possible for an easy pour. Mine is only 2" diameter, but the 3" tubes were out of stock. The tube should be approx 2-3 inches shorter than the height of your box.
Plants!
Total cost ~ 13$. Would be a bit cheaper if you don't buy all the small bags of stuff like I did.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c179/chobint/plants/0430001917.jpg

Step 2: Pour in about 2-3 inches of gravel. The more gravel the merrier, so if you have an extremely deep planter, go for it. I should also mention that this technique will work on any sort of planter.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c179/chobint/plants/0430002303.jpg

Step 3: Place the plastic tube on top of the gravel. This way when you pour water down the tube to water the plants, you can gauge the water level.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c179/chobint/plants/0430002305.jpg

Step 4: Add dirt! If you have large seedlings like I did, you might want to put the seedlings in at the appropriate depth and pour the remaining dirt around them.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c179/chobint/plants/0430001923.jpg

Step 5: Buy some seedlings or grow your own from seed, then pop them in when they're ready.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c179/chobint/plants/0430001940.jpg

Step 6: Vacuum your apt. floor!

Step 7: Maintenance. To water, pour water down the tube. You will want to water until the water level equalizes just at the bottom of the tube. This means that the reservoir is full of water, but the actual soil is not full of standing water which leads to root rot. You'll have to gauge how often to water, based on your plants and temperature, but you want to let the water level drop a bit between waterings to ensure good root growth.

Here is my grow closet. I have strawberries, jalapenos, hot bananas, green bell, roma tomatoes, dill, chives, oregano, rosemary and clovers (for my herbivorous pets). Some were started from seeds, and some store bought. I'm just rocking 2x 5500k T8 fluorescents for now, I'll have to see if that will be sufficient for my purposes. Sorry no weed in there.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c179/chobint/plants/0430002315a.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c179/chobint/plants/0430002315.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c179/chobint/plants/0430002316.jpg

My aerogarden seedlings flying out of the ground. I ripped the mint out and threw in some cilantro seeds instead. The basil is taking off like crazy, and is insanely fragrant for a leaf.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c179/chobint/plants/0430001637.jpg

[82muchhomework]

Bed Bath and Beyond has those AeroGardens on sale 50% off. Are they worth it?

Can you start seeds, grow them to relative maturity, and move them to garden with it?

[chobint]

That's where I got mine. The 50% off is a little deceiving. They carry the spacesaver6 model @ a tag price of $120ish, so half off is $60ish plus tax. On their website, the spacesaver6 is $80 with free shipping no tax. So, yes you do save a little under $20 which is great, but you don't save 50%.

I don't know about aerogarden transplantation, because I've never tried. If I had to give a recommendation, I'd say don't do it. The concept of jumpstarting seedlings quickly sounds great, but I have my reasonable doubts.

1) For what purpose - Why transplant when the aerogarden grows faster than any soil based techniques? Do you have plants in mind that will outgrow the aerogarden's capacity?

2) Transplant shock - The roots are loose in water in the aerogarden. The roots on the basil plant depicted are longer than I'd venture pulling out to measure. I'd estimate they're around 10-12 inches long. Transplanting long loose roots like that into soil would cause severe transplant shock with near absolute certainty for any plant I can think of. Plus after a while the roots of all the different plants get tangled together. Also, because the water/nutrient uptake is so efficient in the aeroponic/hydroponic system, the rest of the plant will grow to a size that expects that level of uptake. If you transplant to a less optimal medium, such as soil, the plant might die because its root system is unable to support the rest of the plant.

Didn't mean to shoot down your idea, because it is a cool idea, but that's my 2c. All of the above is purely hypothetical and based on other past experiences.

[82muchhomework]

That's where I got mine. The 50% off is a little deceiving. They carry the spacesaver6 model @ a tag price of $120ish, so half off is $60ish plus tax. On their website, the spacesaver6 is $80 with free shipping no tax. So, yes you do save a little under $20 which is great, but you don't save 50%.

I don't know about aerogarden transplantation, because I've never tried. If I had to give a recommendation, I'd say don't do it. The concept of jumpstarting seedlings quickly sounds great, but I have my reasonable doubts.

1) For what purpose - Why transplant when the aerogarden grows faster than any soil based techniques? Do you have plants in mind that will outgrow the aerogarden's capacity?

2) Transplant shock - The roots are loose in water in the aerogarden. The roots on the basil plant depicted are longer than I'd venture pulling out to measure. I'd estimate they're around 10-12 inches long. Transplanting long loose roots like that into soil would cause severe transplant shock with near absolute certainty for any plant I can think of. Plus after a while the roots of all the different plants get tangled together. Also, because the water/nutrient uptake is so efficient in the aeroponic/hydroponic system, the rest of the plant will grow to a size that expects that level of uptake. If you transplant to a less optimal medium, such as soil, the plant might die because its root system is unable to support the rest of the plant.

Didn't mean to shoot down your idea, because it is a cool idea, but that's my 2c. All of the above is purely hypothetical and based on other past experiences.

I guess you're right about the 50%. They are $64.99 (Plus the other goodies would come to about $80.00). Still better than naught.
link (http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/product.asp?order_num=1689006959&sku=116164&rn=2351&col=0&mesg=Items+were+added+to+your+cart%2E+%3Ca+href%3D http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ebedbathandbeyond%2Ecom%2FshowCa rt%2Easp%3Forder%5Fnum%3D1689006959%26retloc%3D1%2 6retarg%3DSKU%253D116164%26%3EProceed+to+checkout% 2E+%3Cimg+src%3D%2Fimg%2Fglobalicon%5Fcart%5Foff%2 Egif+border%3D0%3E%3C%2Fa%3E&)

My thought was to use it so that I could get the plants going real good, real fast before transplanting them. That way I could do it over and over and not worry about killing seedlings. I didn't really think it through. I think your right. I bet you would end up with an adapted root system that would not be right for soil. I just didn't want to be limited by the space of the aerogarden.

Thanks.

edit:
I just read into some forums of "herb" growers. I guess people are successful transplanting IF they don't let the plants get very big in the aerogarden first. The success rate isn't 100%, but it seemed pretty good. One guy was complaining about 4/5 making it. Um... I guess when your plant is that important to you.

If I give it a try, I will keep you guys informed of the results.

[chobint]

I guess you're right about the 50%. They are $64.99 (Plus the other goodies would come to about $80.00). Still better than naught.
link (http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/product.asp?order_num=1689006959&sku=116164&rn=2351&col=0&mesg=Items+were+added+to+your+cart%2E+%3Ca+href%3D http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ebedbathandbeyond%2Ecom%2FshowCa rt%2Easp%3Forder%5Fnum%3D1689006959%26retloc%3D1%2 6retarg%3DSKU%253D116164%26%3EProceed+to+checkout% 2E+%3Cimg+src%3D%2Fimg%2Fglobalicon%5Fcart%5Foff%2 Egif+border%3D0%3E%3C%2Fa%3E&)

My thought was to use it so that I could get the plants going real good, real fast before transplanting them. That way I could do it over and over and not worry about killing seedlings. I didn't really think it through. I think your right. I bet you would end up with an adapted root system that would not be right for soil. I just didn't want to be limited by the space of the aerogarden.

Thanks.

edit:
I just read into some forums of "herb" growers. I guess people are successful transplanting IF they don't let the plants get very big in the aerogarden first. The success rate isn't 100%, but it seemed pretty good. One guy was complaining about 4/5 making it. Um... I guess when your plant is that important to you.

If I give it a try, I will keep you guys informed of the results.

Unless you have some specific goodies in mind, it already comes good to go with bulbs, seed pods and nutrient tabs.

Here are some pics of the plants and their respective roots sizes, to give you an idea of what might be viably transplantable. Good luck.

Oregano
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c179/chobint/plants/aerogarden%20roots/0501001218.jpg

Dill
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c179/chobint/plants/aerogarden%20roots/0501001217.jpg

Basil - this is probably where my cutoff point would be, altho I saw an article where someone transplanted much larger plants with mixed sucess.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c179/chobint/plants/aerogarden%20roots/0501001218a.jpg

[landarc]

82, I have considered the use of both aeroponic and hydroponic cloning and germination processes for creating seedling faster and easier than the traditional soil method. The issue with it has to be with the difference between how the roots grow in soil versus in a water based environment. The roots develop different physical properties that inhibit nutrient uptake along the normal structures when not planted in soil that create a lot of shock in seedlings. You can lose 20% of seedlings along with a loss in performance of the seedlings that do survive.

There are specialized gel systems that do work great, but, each seedling starts to cost quite a bit. When we had the nursery, we used sand/perlite mediums along with misters that allowed for an extremely fast root development process when cloning plants. I have an idea of how I might proceed using an enclosed tupperware system to replicate this process for seeding as well.

I want a couple of aeroponic systems for growing herbs like cilantro and basil in my kitchen, it would end up being a lot cheaper than buying those herbs.

[BobBrisket]

For the record..........you seeds are in the ground, Dave. Let's cross our fingers.

Bob

[82muchhomework]

For the record..........you seeds are in the ground, Dave. Let's cross our fingers.

Bob

I am using another one of those burpee seed starters with the expanding pucks. They have been resting in those babies since Tuesday. I never have luck when planting seeds directly in the ground. Sometimes they will grow the following year. I did an overnight presoak in distilled water on these to soften their shell and hopefully wake them up. Seriously crossing my fingers.

Since I had a bunch of seed starter pod thingies left over from your batch, I did a presoak on some more yellow japs and tepins. Four tepins germinated in less than 48 hours! and they are still popping up.

[82muchhomework]

Look! Look look! I am tickled pink excited!

Its just waking up. A chilhuacle negro sprout.

This was a Brotherly gift from SmokeJumper. I am soooo excited that its growing. I might go buy an aerogarden just for this little baby. Wait, I planted him in soil, I don't think I can switch over now. I don't want to risk it.

http://i40.tinypic.com/bff5w5.jpg

[BobBrisket]

Sweet!

[SmokeJumper]

Outstanding!! That is a thing of beauty 82MH.

We have three aerogardens and love them but I think these pepper plants will be too big to grow to maturity under the hood. We have had great success with smaller ornamental varieties.

Coincidentally, It happens that the original inventor and former CEO of Aerogarden is my step brother in-law! To support the company we bought all my family members Aerogardens for Christmas two years back. My sister and Dad have used them to germinate seeds while there is still frost and have had limited success transplanting outside but as Bob (landarc) described, many of them don't make it because of their different root structures. I still think it is a decent strategy if you have lots of seed and live in a zone where there is late spring frost.

Thanks for the early riser pics 82MH!

[landarc]

I was gonna ask if you could talk to him about a larger setup, maybe a kit. But, I see he is a former now.

[SmokeJumper]

Well, I forgot that we had one of the newer Aerogarden Pro models that can grow plants up to 2 feet high. Our other two models only go to one foot. So here is a sneak peak at today's project. :-P

[landarc]

So they do make them and I must have missed it. Nice, those would make a great cloning station, too, if you could fill the cups with hormone gel. And NO, I do not grow 'green crops'.

You guys are gonna love those chilhaucle. Make sure you water them consistently, not often, but with a regular pattern. They are prone to blossom end rot if not given a regular regimen of water.

[82muchhomework]

I picked up two AeroGardens (Space Saver 6's) today at Bed Bath and Beyond. They were $65 in the store as well as online. They even took their famous 20% coupons on them so each one came to $52.99+tax. Light bulbs and all the other accessories were all 50% off too, so I loaded up on a bunch of those.

After my wife grows her flowers in them, I will be doin some pepper trial runs. Or possibly convincing her to upgrade me to the veggie model.

Edit: (trying to add to post without bumping it [crosses fingers])

FIRST-
The AeroGarden seems kind of loud. Reminds me of a fishtank I used to have where the pump was really loud. Is this thing supposed to be silent? I would imagine that noise would be a HUGE customer complaint.

SECOND-
A few more Chilhuacle Negro's have sprouted.

Third-
After researching around the Internet for a good DIY aeroponics system to put outside, I came across this awesome little Blog post. Think yall might be interested. I might try it in a few weeks. DIY Aeroponics (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:noBCtpYQrL4J:blog.junglin.com/my-homemade-aerogrow-system/+how+to+make+aerogarden+silent&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)

[SmokeJumper]

I picked up two AeroGardens (Space Saver 6's) today at Bed Bath and Beyond. They were $65 in the store as well as online. They even took their famous 20% coupons on them so each one came to $52.99+tax.

Nice score at an amazing price. We keep a drawer full of those coupons. BB&B doesn't even care if they expired, will take multiple coupons at once and will retroactively give you credit if you forget the coupon.


FIRST-
The AeroGarden seems kind of loud. Reminds me of a fishtank I used to have where the pump was really loud. Is this thing supposed to be silent? I would imagine that noise would be a HUGE customer complaint.

The pump on ours is clearly audible but it is the sound of the water falling from the seed sponge to the top of the water reservoir below that is most noticeable. I definitely wouldn't want it in a bedroom. We put ours in a deep recessed window in the kitchen that doesn't get a lot of light and the sound isn't that intrusive. The full spectrum light is really nice in the evening while working around the kitchen.


SECOND-
A few more Chilhuacle Negro's have sprouted.

Nice work! I might even do a smoked pavo mole negro writeup if the peppers are plentiful enough to share this year.

[chobint]

Light bulbs and all the other accessories were all 50% off too, so I loaded up on a bunch of those.

I've been reading, from those 'green' forums as landarc so eloquently put it... that placing additional CFL's on the side of the plant can significantly increase yield and thickens the plant by inhibiting the plant's tendency to "reach" for the single overhead light source. This is extremely valuable in a height limited aerogarden. Also, if you find your plants are getting too tall for the 1ft hood on the spacesaver (which many pepper/tomatoes will), you can extend the hood by using a DC figure-8 style extension cord to allow you to hang the hood from above. Alternately you may find that buying some fluorescent fixtures/cfls to hang from above might be easier to do than trying to hack your aerogarden into the form you want. Amazing how 99% of the indoor hydroponic growth information is contained on the 'green' forums. Lots of good stuff to be learned from there.


Third-
After researching around the Internet for a good DIY aeroponics system to put outside, I came across this awesome little Blog post. Think yall might be interested. I might try it in a few weeks. DIY Aeroponics (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:noBCtpYQrL4J:blog.junglin.com/my-homemade-aerogrow-system/+how+to+make+aerogarden+silent&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)

I just want to make a quick point, in case you've been reading that aeroponic is better than hydroponic and are gangbusters for an aeroponic system...

I believe aeroponic means that air is the growth medium for the roots. This usually means that the roots dangle in air while they are sprayed with a fine mist or fog that feeds nutrients to the roots. The whole point is that the finer the granularity of the mist, the finer the root hairs become, significantly increasing the roots surface area. If I had to make an assessment, I'd say that both the aerogarden and your link are good examples of "bubbleponics", which is a hydroponic technique that aerates the water by pumping bubbles into it. (Please correct me if I'm wrong)

[edit] grats on the purchase btw

[82muchhomework]

. Amazing how 99% of the indoor hydroponic growth information is contained on the 'green' forums. Lots of good stuff to be learned from there.

Ain't dat da troof! I guess when they are motivated, they ARE motivated.



If I had to make an assessment, I'd say that both the aerogarden and your link are good examples of "bubbleponics", which is a hydroponic technique that aerates the water by pumping bubbles into it. (Please correct me if I'm wrong)

I agree that the AeroGarden is a "Bubbleponics" type unit in my feeble mind. I was actually ALMOST disappointed in its simplicity. I thought it would be more advanced than an air pump and an air stone. It is well designed and quality made, just very simple. Maybe thats the beauty of it, but I think they are leaving a huge margin for competitors (no offense to the company or their employees family members). LED mod anyone? I'm Looking at this for a mod: http://www.homegrownlights.com/14wled.html

My link to that pianist's DIY- She included a fogger as the main "misting" unit so that air is the growing medium at least until the roots reached the oxygenated water. So I think its more of a combo technology. Pretty simple too actually. I wonder if the nutrients "vaporize" with the fogger or if they are left behind in the bubble soup.

She also included the nutrients she was using. She must have read up on them 'green' sites. As long as the fogger doesn't get clogged up with nutrients, I think its an interesting possibility. I would like to look into it to clone the pepper plants. Apparently they clone pretty easily but have a tendency to dwarf and create bushy plants. I believe that placing one of those units outside might have real possibilities for extra quick harvests.

I hope to build one in a few weeks. I think it would be an interesting project. I hope the neighbors don't think I'm up to something. Maybe the hypersonic fogger will shut their dog up!

Edit: After further reading, I think the "Aero" part of the Aerogarden is achieved by water dripping down the roots. As SmokeJumper talked about the sound. Its pretty ingenious way to mechanically supply the nutrients to the roots without using a mister or a sprayer. I think it just lets condensation gather the water and the shape of the bowl and pods directs the water down over the roots. So it might be more than simply bubbleponics on that part too. If size wasn't a consideration, I think the majority of roots wouldn't be sitting in water. Since the AeroGarden is designed to be placed on the countertop, it just cannot be that tall to avoid the roots laying in bubbly water. So, with that in mind, the fogger in Jung's design may be unneccessary if one could shape the lid of the container to direct the condensation over the roots.

Do you think having a black container outside would cause too much heat to build in the root box?

[chobint]

My link to that pianist's DIY- She included a fogger as the main "misting" unit so that air is the growing medium at least until the roots reached the oxygenated water. So I think its more of a combo technology. Pretty simple too actually. I wonder if the nutrients "vaporize" with the fogger or if they are left behind in the bubble soup.

Apologies, I misread your link. You're right.

The nutrients do get taken up with the fog. If you think about it, if 100% the nutrients were left behind, the fogger would be clogged up in about 60 seconds from mineral deposits lol.

[landarc]

82, did I not send you my hydro document that goes into the do-it-yourself processes for film, bubbler, aero and pot systems? It also covers lights and nutrient programs. PM me an email and I can send you a 9mb document that covers all you need to know.

Outside aeroponic systems work great, what you need to consider will be heat and algae growth. I am planning one in which the reservoir will be in the ground. The top grow boxes will be black with a white cover placed over it for summer to knock down the heat of the air in the box. The idea being that water in a ground reservoir will be cooler. The pump will be submersible to cut down on noise and regular microjets will be the sprays.

For propogation, you can use an aeroponics box with cloning gel in the baskets. This cuts down on dwarfing and encourages root growth. Back when we did more vegetative cloning, we used a spray bed, the misters (also microjets) sprayed down onto a perlite bed, the cuttings were dipped in hormone and pushed into the perlite bed. The jets misted continuously until root development occurred. Then the plants were re-potted into soil as we did not use hydro to grow flowers (roses, ficus and carnations, not other stuff). Incidentally, it is the case that if you make your money by selling ag, you spend a lot more time developing systems.

[landarc]

I should add that film systems work great outside, many guys use film systems built into 8" storm pipe and they have exceptional success with pepper and tomato growing. I do not have a diagram of this, but, have seen some great systems built this way.

[bobaftt]

Something is eating the leaves of my basil and tomatoes. What should I put on them to take care of that?

[landarc]

Depends on what is eating them, if it is small holes, insecticidal soap works great, bigger holes could be worms, then you might consider Neem.

[bobaftt]

they are eating almost the whole leaf. Also what do yall do about squirrels? I had trouble last year with them getting the maters as soon as they were ripe.

[landarc]

Squirrels are tough if you do not own a dog. You might have caterpillars of tomato worms, you just need to hunt down the critters and kill em by hand. There are some insecticides that would work, but, you need to be sure to use the ones rated for the crops and stage of plant that you are dealing with.

[chobint]

As some have mentioned, it would most certainly simplify things if you could determine whether it is critter vs insect damage. As a simple rule of thumb, eating from the inside out is most certainly insect (ie holes in the leaves). Eating from the outside in, is most likely (but not certainly) a furry critter.

[82muchhomework]

The guy at our local Hydroponics Supply said that doing hydro or aero outside in the summer will not work unless I have a way to chill down the water. It needs to stay below 80* or the roots will rot. The only cheap way to do this would be to dig a hole to bury the reservoir. Might not be my next project any longer.

I am looking for an almost "fool proof" method of growing seedlings to stronger plants before hardening off and transplanting outside. Those seedlings are getting bigger and they need to be planted in more soil soon. I am concerned about a slug running off with them in one fell swoop though. That's why I'd like to grow them to stronger plants first. I'm thinking the way to do this would be to use a light indoors for a little bit. Do yall think this is a good method, and if so, what kind of lights should I buy?

[BobBrisket]

Garden Update:
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1018/4607728997_49ae0ea40b_o.jpg
Corn and Sunflowers.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1177/4607729023_4276eccaaf_o.jpg
More corn and Basil.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3314/4608337334_ee9af52728_o.jpg
Don't know the name of this one. Some bulbs my neighbor gave me two years ago. Gorgeous farking flowers!!! I'm in awe of the color and beauty. They just POP out at you in person.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1316/4607729109_772e944647_o.jpg
Carrots and onyawns in the background. Really excited as I have NEVER had this kind luck with carrots. My son is ALWAYS asking if they are ready. LOL!!
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4069/4608337410_f2b6e6bdda_o.jpg
FIRST yellow cherry!! My son had the honors. He said it was "sour!" But he still ate it!
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1329/4608337438_a25b5717a4_o.jpg
Juliette maters.........I LOVE the smell of mater plants.

Still waiting on a few more pepper plants to sprout. (fingers crossed mod)

[chobint]

If you are interested in an inexpensive indoor setup, here is one example for you. This is my setup inside a 5x3'ish closet with three t8 shop lights. Altogether the lighting setup came to $72 for 3 fixtures and 6 bulbs + $13 for extension cords and chains to drop the lights down further. IMO, a fluorscent setup is more than sufficient for raising seedlings as you intend.

As far as fool proof goes... with the absence of pests and the self watering planters, I can basically water it once a week forget about it once the seeds are germinated. Using biodegradable pots lets you transplant your semi-mature seedlings to the garden without any mess or risk of transplant shock.

The internet consensus on lights for vegetative growth (such as raising seedlings), is to use a fluoroescent that is blueish (ie 6500k color temp) or use Metal Halide for an HID setup.

Anyhoo, good luck.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c179/chobint/plants/0503002325.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c179/chobint/plants/plantsonfloor.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c179/chobint/plants/0430002315a.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c179/chobint/plants/0430002315.jpg


My clones. I've been pruning the plants that are growing way faster than the others into clones. Has worked successfully for two clones so far this season, so I have my thumbs crossed for the rest of the batch. I could really use a bigger cloning dome tho.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c179/chobint/plants/0515000047.jpg

[82muchhomework]

Thanks Chobint! I went back to the Hydro store. They said the same thing you did, but tried to sell me on some 6500K fluorescent T5 lights. Its was like $28 for one bulb and fixture, or $120 for a 4 bulb fixture. He also said to avoid Miracle Gro since they have slow release plant food in it (I always thought those little yellow balls were slug eggs) that makes nutrient control difficult. I think I'll try to model your setup.

They hydro guy also said that I should transplant them in dixie cups to put under the light. When they get root bound to move them up a step. "Why not just put them in larger pots to begin with?" I asked. He said that a bigger pot will let them shoot down a huge tap root but they will not grow much bigger until they start spiraling all the feeder roots. That explains a lot now.


Thanks for the update Bob. I am always jealous of your backyard. I'm pretty sure that flower is an amaryllis. They are simply gorgeous and will spit out three or four of those gorgeous flowers on top of a short stocky "look out tower." I think you can force them like paperwhites during the winter. Makes an awesome Christmas gift in the dead season.

BTW, I've got 9 chilhuacle negro seedlings. They are starting to emerge the first set of true leaves. I also have a bunch more yellow jalapenos and tepins. I'm going to put this bunch under the light.

[landarc]

They hydro guy also said that I should transplant them in dixie cups to put under the light. When they get root bound to move them up a step. "Why not just put them in larger pots to begin with?" I asked. He said that a bigger pot will let them shoot down a huge tap root but they will not grow much bigger until they start spiraling all the feeder roots. That explains a lot now.
That explains all those dwarf forests out there were the trees are still 8" tall cause they are sending roots down until they start spiraling. :heh:

Sorry, had to make a snarky post at some point. The fact is, there is no truth to support the needs for transplanting into small containers. The real truth is that each time you transplant, you cause an indeterminate amount of shock to the plant due to disturbing the roots. If you transplant from a liner to a 3" pot to a 6" pot to the ground, you create 3 times when the plant will shock and potentially stop growing. The best practice is actually getting the plant into the ground as soon as possible with one transplant at the most. Since what most of us are looking for in growing all solanum is edible fruit, we should be looking for planting after the last frost.

So, why do nurseries pot up so often. Well, having grown up in a family that was involved in the retail plant business, I would first challenge the multiple potting up. We potted up twice, once from mass germinated seed flats to 2" six pack liner and then to 3" liners. We rarely potted up to 1 gallon cans and only those plants we did not sell as liners. This also allowed us two opportunities to place plants for sale before we took a loss, as we could sell 6-packs or 3" liners.

Unless you are doing hydro, tap roots are the most important aspect of a plants root system. It is the main part of the root system that holds the side roots, provides vertical support and acts as the main conduit of nutrients to the plant above. Once a root begins to spiral, you are heading towards having a root bound plant that will result in having to handle the roots at planting, or having a small bundled root ball that does not properly and effectively seek out fresh nutrients. This is one of the reasons many people need to fertilize plants in an otherwise healthy soil with good tilth. I would suggest that unless you are otherwise inclined, because you have nothing better to do, pot up to a 6-pack until you have 3 sets of leaves, harden off and plant. All of the regular growers I know (actual experts) who are below the Zone 5 hardiness areas are in the ground now or in the next week. I am in the ground by Weds. myself and I am about 3 weeks behind for CA.

[landarc]

Hmmm, sorry that was sort of a long post.

[SmokeJumper]

Don't know the name of this one. Some bulbs my neighbor gave me two years ago. Gorgeous farking flowers!!! I'm in awe of the color and beauty. They just POP out at you in person.

I second the vote of amaryllis on that beautiful flower. We push Amys during the holidays in glass containers full of marbles. No soil required. Great festive colors. Also, thanks for the update on your flourishing garden. Any decisions yet on the patio/raised bed area you were going to do?


Still waiting on a few more pepper plants to sprout. (fingers crossed mod)
I hope you see some soon. A week and a half after starting them, I have two Chilhuacle seeds germinated so far out of 18 that I put into my Aerogarden. I hope at least one takes so I can see if I can get them to fruit indoors. I was reading about how to pollinate these indoors and apparently you have to shake them vigorously every few days when they flower. No bees or hummingbirds required.



BTW, I've got 9 chilhuacle negro seedlings. They are starting to emerge the first set of true leaves. I also have a bunch more yellow jalapenos and tepins. I'm going to put this bunch under the light.

Nice work 82MH! :eusa_clap You just planted them straight into small pots, correct? What is your secret sauce for such high germination rates? We all have the same seeds but you are running circles around us. At least for now...


That explains all those dwarf forests out there were the trees are still 8" tall cause they are sending roots down until they start spiraling. :heh:
:pound:

Landarc, do you have chilhuacles in the ground this year? Maybe we can do a dried pepper/seed swap later this summer to share and compare if all works out well.

[82muchhomework]

Landarc-
I would definitely defer to you for advice over "hydro-dude." I thought it was maybe a method of encouraging vegetative growth over root strength. At this point, my goal is to SAFELY get fruits and seeds out of these seedlings. Since I have never done this before, I am exploring all options. Tell me what to do man, I will do it.



SmokeJumper-
I did an overnight soak in distilled water. Then I used Burpee seed starters from lowes (~$6). They have 25 little pucks (I think cocoa coir) that expand. I used all the seeds you sent and divided them into 9 of the pucks. Covered and let sit in the warm afternoon sun that comes into my back sliding door.

The other two types did not sprout at all. I think they don't like me, but the Chilhuacles sprouted multiples in each. I should have given them a greater share of the starter pack cause now I have to clip off the weaker multiples. It hurts me to do so.

I will take some and pot them outside after hardening them off, and take the others to mature under a fluorescent. I am afraid of losing them all if I try the same method with all of them. Trying to ensure fruits and replenishment of the seed supply.

Almost all of them have roots spreading underneath. It happened before I even knew it. They are nice and white with teeny tiny "air root" hairs all over them. I think they need to be transplanted appropriately.

Here they are
http://i40.tinypic.com/ev6qdd.jpg

Oh, the missing pods had some white fuzzies starting to grow on them. I tossed them rather than risk it spreading to the healthy ones. They are going crazy.

[landarc]

What size pots? Do you know how to do pots for plants? Are you going to irrigate?

[landarc]

Smoke, I do not have any chilhaucle in the ground this year, I should have some interesting stuff though. Let me get it in the ground and I can let you know. Had a lot of non-starters this year due to working with old seeds that I should have planted some time ago.

[SmokeJumper]

Those chilhaucles are a beautiful sight Dave. :cool:

Don't feel bad about thinning because if even a couple of those plants make it to fruit you will have an heirloom seed bank, killer moles and interesting chile powders much of the year.

As for the other varieties, my sister reported this week that of over 50 cascabel seeds planted this spring she only got 2 to germinate. It may be because those seeds are three or four years old. In conrast, the chilhuacles seeds were harvested in Oaxaca last summer.

What did you plant in your aerogardens?

[82muchhomework]

What size pots? Do you know how to do pots for plants? Are you going to irrigate?

I bought some trays of peat pots to transplant these guys in under the fluorescent lights. They are 5" diameter by about 4.5" tall.

:confused::shocked::confused: do pots? Irrigate? I don't have any experience doing this sort of thing. But I am willing to ask questions and research like crazy to make it work. Please, clue me in.

Those peat pots come with soil pucks. That makes me think that those expandable pucks are "dead" soil without the beneficial bacteria and nutrients. Should I use some other kind of soil, or should I just mix in some organic fertilizer? What would you do?



What did you plant in your aerogardens?

Wife wanted the English Cottage garden flowers. That's how I convinced her to buy them. :becky:

[SmokeJumper]

Wife wanted the English Cottage garden flowers. That's how I convinced her to buy them. :becky:

Smooth operator! :cool:

Just make sure those flowers don't grow too well or you'll never get veggies started in there!

[landarc]

For vegetables, versus houseplants, the manner in which you set up the pots can differ. If you are going to irrigate them with a timer (always a good thing versus hand watering) you also make some changes to the setup. The type of pot and size makes a huge difference. For peppers, you can get away with 3 gallon size pots, tomatoes really want a 5 gallon size (buckets work).

What I would consider...once you get pots, there should be at least two holes 1/2" in diameter, fill bottom two inches with 1" rocks and top with some filter fabric. Put potting soil into each pot. Then plant you seedling after they get three sets of true leaves. Water with a dripper into each bucket at the base of the transplant. (this assumes you are not do hydro of some sort, if you are doing hydro, the most important thing will be to block sun from hitting the pots if they are outside. Algae is not good for hydro.

As far as the peat pots and moss pucks, they are somewhat sterile, use them anyway and when you water, add a teaspoon of liquid nutrient to each 1/2 gallon of water. Once you get to three true leaves, harden them off and plant them out.

[chobint]

Wife wanted the English Cottage garden flowers. That's how I convinced her to buy them. :becky:

boo. Shoulda put herbs in the aerogarden. Can't beat cutting fresh herbs right off the vine as you are cooking.

edit: for transplantation, your plants should be very robust and ready for the outdoors before they outgrow the biodegradable 5" pots. Keeping the bio pots watering can be a serious PITA b/c they dry out so quickly. You can easily remedy this by putting them in a tray and overwatering a bit, just make sure you let the pan dry out every few days to avoid unwanted friends due to stagnation.

As landarc mentioned you will want something considerably larger if you want to take your plants to maturity indoors. The only issues I see is that putting holes in the pot and using active irrigation indoors is impractical... mostly b/c drainage is nonexistent unless you are growing in a bathtub (which would be awesome). I prefer to just put some extra gravel at the bottom to help supplement drainage. The reason I place the tube in my pots to see the water level is to ensure that I don't over water. Anyway, good luck.

[82muchhomework]

The seedlings have been moved to their temporary home. Its a 96 watt, T5 (4x 24" lamps) grow light. They are in 3" peat pots with coco coir medium. They have been there about a week and are on an 18 hour on, 6 hour off light cycle. Right now, the chilhuacles are in the front, yellow jalapenos in the middle, and more tepins in the back. I have more tepins and yellow jalapenos outside in small pots. These were planted a few weeks behind the others already outside.

I'm thinking that I need to move the lights closer. They are about 6-8" right now. There is a fan on them (which seems to dry out the coco quickly). I am watering from beneath and will start to add nutrients according to Landarcs previously posted instructions soon. Am I on the right track?

Also, I JUST got some interesting seeds in the mail, purple glow in the dark peppers, black nubian peppers, and Thomas Jefferson cayenne. Is it too late in the season to start those?

http://i47.tinypic.com/2hx3ul4.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/160sock.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/291111i.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/n2olub.jpg

http://i50.tinypic.com/mr7cx0.jpg

[chobint]

Looks good.

I'd say you can move the lights in quite a bit. Standard wattage fluro tubes do not get hot. I keep my plants an inch or two away from my t8 fluro's, and have not had issues with burn. If the bulb is cool enough to touch comfortably with your hand, 1-2" is plenty.

[bbqbull]

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=84145&highlight=grow+boxes

[landarc]

I like 4 to 6 inches, but, one inch is fine (maybe better). It all looks good to me. You should be able to start a few seeds of peppers now. Put em in a very warm soil mix, keep it at 85F or so and you can push them along nicely.

[stiffy]

Started some basil seeds along with 70 pepper plants, the peppers are in my big garden but decided to do the basil in small containers, so I tried chobints' method of the "Self-Watering Planter Box", see below for PRONO...

hopefully it works out we shall see,,

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a107/gangaspeed/100_1901.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a107/gangaspeed/100_1903.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a107/gangaspeed/100_1902.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a107/gangaspeed/100_1906.jpg

[landarc]

Very nice, and in a month, pesto!

[82muchhomework]

I think that Chobint's method is a good concept. I did a similar thing with a sealed bottom, plastic flower pot and that jalapeno is doing the best of all of my plants. I also drilled a small drain whole in the side of the pot so the whole thing cannot get water logged. It works well and the plant loves it. I think it also prevents all the nutrients from flushing out of the soil completely by retaining them in the bottom.

Target has some pots that are very similar to these: http://www.agardenpatch.com/ where the watering hole and "over watering drain" is executed with a spout made in the side of the bottom of the pot (the target pots are round not rectangular). The top half has wicking baskets built in. They work really well and are really cheap ($3-$8 depending on size, I think the $8 on is about 4 gallons or so). The only problem is positioning the planter so that algae doesn't grow where the sun peaks in the bottom. I also threw a piece of a mosquito dunk in the bottom of mine to prevent fungus gnats.

Keep us updated Stiffy. That basil is going to be a monster.

[chobint]

heyyy, glad to see someone used my planter idea. 82muchhw makes a great point. An overflow drain is an excellent addition to the original plans for outdoor use.

Looking forward to seeing how everyone's plants are doing. I should have a round of pics up here in about a week.

[Dylan's Dad]

I've been lurking on this thread on and off for a while, so I'll show ya my plants so far. My son and I went out over Memorial weekend to Lowe's in order to start his Topsy-Turvy strawberry garden. They only had 3 strawberry plants left :sad: but...they had tons of pepper plants. :clap2:

I bought Habaneros, Jalapeños, Cayenne, Chili Red, and Thai Hot peppers and filled 8 of the remaining slots in his Topsy Turvy. Since then they have taken off like gangbusters! :becky: I'm not sure how good the setup is for peppers, but so far so good. :thumb:


http://i881.photobucket.com/albums/ac19/Dylans_Dad/ReverseSearRibeyes013.jpg

http://i881.photobucket.com/albums/ac19/Dylans_Dad/ReverseSearRibeyes014.jpg

http://i881.photobucket.com/albums/ac19/Dylans_Dad/ReverseSearRibeyes016.jpg

[landarc]

Very nice DD, I have never seen peppers done in one of those, got me thinking.

[Dylan's Dad]

It takes about a gallon of water a day but it has excellent drainage. As the plants get bigger I think it will even need a bit more water and fertilizer. It's almost like a greenhouse inside for the roots so they grow really quick. I can already see them on the backside thru the holes that I didn't fill with a plant.

The strawberries are growing just as fast but I keep cutting them so that they are not blocking the peppers sun. :redface:

I'll buy Dylan some strawberries!:-D

[SmokeJumper]

That look like a great idea DD. I'm thinking you might get some hybrid peppers from the close proximity. That might make for some interesting eats!

[Mark]

Dylan's Dad:

I make my own bags out of surplus vinyl and have grown peppers in slits in the side very similar to your pictures. I found that it works fine for compact pepper plants (including habenero's). But not so good for tall plants as the trunk can't bear the weight when the plant is full of fruit.


Here's an old post about it.

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showpost.php?p=261311&postcount=1

[chobint]

So, I never got around to posting it, but my garden was taken over by a malicious swarm of aphids. Long story short, I contracted the little buggers from some nursury plants from lowes and went away for a weekend. Came back and the garden was nearly destroyed, so I restarted. The only thing I managed to keep alive and disinfected was the strawberry plant. It's going well so far, as you can see in the pics.

On a side note, genovese basil is a freaking weed I tell you, albeit a tasty one. It grows so fast and propagates amazingly well. The basil plant pictured is one that I cloned off of my aerogarden. I have since successfully cloned 15+ basil plants and given them to family and friends.

PICSSS... Not pictured are some jumbo jalapeno, sweet banana and fajita bells that I just germinated and transplanted recently.

This is a pic just before I took my week vacation to visit my family .
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c179/chobint/plants/IMG_0480_compressed.jpg?t=1277436582

This is a pic just after my vacation (a week later). Look at those 'maters and basil go!!!! The basil grew into the light 6-10 inches above, which is why it's bent over.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c179/chobint/plants/IMG_0639_compressed.jpg?t=1277436579

[stiffy]

Sorry to hear that about them aphids, hopefully you can get what you need off the cuttings!

[BobBrisket]

Here's where my greenage is currently at:
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1060/4731870895_d7434b6310.jpg
Today's haul. They'll become part of tonight's dinner.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1177/4731870913_ec609f8255_b.jpg
Maters, carrots, chives, and the monster Tepin plants, and my Spanish Broom on 2X4 crutches! Wind storm kicked its arse in March. Hoping it recovers.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1325/4731870961_e5e4b094de_b.jpg
Mammoth Jalapeno....not very mamothy yet.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1104/4732514342_7448c85c70_b.jpg
Orange Mint plant........RAWKS in fresh brewed tea!!
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1374/4732514366_3d24b20f43_b.jpg
My favorite plant of ALL!! My son came home from Pre-K with this bean plant during the last couple weeks of school. They did the "seed sprouting" experiment in science class and he came home with these two gorgeous plants in a gallon zip lock with a wet paper towel for moisture. I said........what the heck. Put em in the pot and they took off!! Well, one did. The other died off. It is already forming blooms. I'll be giving it something to climb up on tomorrow. He gets a kick out of seeing his plant still growing.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1030/4731871141_247ac85a03_b.jpg
Some corn and that's my Basil Forrest behind the stalks. That basil dumps mega seeds each year and it always comes back. THis is year 3 for it. The two ears on the right side plant got pulled and my kids ate the corn fresh and raw. THEY LOVED IT!! Mother natures candy......nice and sweet.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1166/4731871171_54da96d989_b.jpg
First year planting in this area. I did not prep the soil or anything. Just planted some corn and sunflowers for fun. The corn will probably not produce but the sunflowers are already about 7 ft tall. I might turn this into a semi-raised garden for next year.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1078/4732514584_c680a0b242_b.jpg
These things are GORGEOUS!! The honey bees are having a field day with em!!

[garyk1398]

http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs619.snc3/32578_403724082491_576592491_4201683_7756198_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=4322440&id=576592491)

Gigante Jalapenos growing up! sorry for the poor quality...cell phone pic

[cubs204]

Ok, Im glad I checked in here and saw this thread. I rent and am not able to start a garden yet so I bought one of the topsy turvy things for peppers. I planted what I thought were jap seedlings. Turned out I was wrong. They are a habenero hybrid lol. Looks like the hot sauce I had planned will have a little extra heat. I will try and get some pictures as I have about 80 peppers growing already on 10 plants, some are getting pretty good sized too.

[mmmmeat]

here's where im at so far out here in the desert!!!
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs035.snc4/34136_404215402758_578407758_4491978_937460_n.jpg
GARLIC
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs019.ash2/34335_404215292758_578407758_4491969_1770126_n.jpg
pumpkin
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs057.ash2/36216_404215372758_578407758_4491975_4801158_n.jpg
watermelon
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs122.snc4/36482_404215342758_578407758_4491973_1642048_n.jpg

[chobint]

Nice outdoor setups. I'm jealous being in an apt.

Anyway, I've seen a few separate threads on growing garlic on this forum... so I was wondering, is there really any benefit? I've heard from family that garlic blossoms can add a unique and interesting flavor to dishes, but does the garlic bulb itself come out any better? I ask because my experience has shown that bulb based plants (ie garlic, onion, etc...) don't yield much better fruit over store bought. Any opinions/insight?

[mmmmeat]

garlic takes a long time to grow... i think 150 days or so ... i dont quite remember, all that i planted was from a 2 dollar pack from lowes. im growin it cuz i never have before, so i dont really know if it's any better or worse but i imagine that like most stuff homegrown... the taste might a lil more intense because of the differences in watering compared to commercial farms that get tons of water, mine is every other day, but i love garlic, so i'll probably be able to pick out the tastes, where my wife doesnt care for it she wouldnt be able to taste much difference

[Chef Jim]

Nice outdoor setups. I'm jealous being in an apt.

Anyway, I've seen a few separate threads on growing garlic on this forum... so I was wondering, is there really any benefit? I've heard from family that garlic blossoms can add a unique and interesting flavor to dishes, but does the garlic bulb itself come out any better? I ask because my experience has shown that bulb based plants (ie garlic, onion, etc...) don't yield much better fruit over store bought. Any opinions/insight?

I agree, but, respectfully disagree. How bout that? Garlic is fun to grow but I don't see much difference. Now for the BUT. I grow onions and there is a very big difference in the flavor, and they last longer. IMO it's worth the effort.

[Kevin]

Great thread guys. I can't believe that I missed it. Here is my meager attempt at a garden. All in plastic wash tubs, river rock in the bottom, topped with potting mix. I have tried and failed at planting seeds so this year I bought bedding stock from a nursery. The upside down thingy is my brides cherry tomato.

http://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp138/GrandpaK_photos/Herbs.jpg
http://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp138/GrandpaK_photos/Garden1.jpg
http://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp138/GrandpaK_photos/Anaheim.jpg
http://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp138/GrandpaK_photos/Tomatoes.jpg

[BobBrisket]

I agree, but, respectfully disagree. How bout that? Garlic is fun to grow but I don't see much difference. Now for the BUT. I grow onions and there is a very big difference in the flavor, and they last longer. IMO it's worth the effort.

You are correct about the onions. I just pulled up the last few I had planted. My kids love em fresh with salt and lime. While they are strong in smell, they are also kinda sweet in taste. I guess that'w why they like em that way. Their breath stinks for days......but at least they won't have onion aversion later on!:becky:
The garlic I have looks more like small onions when I pull them up. The bulbs are very small. I like to have the garlic for the chive part. That stuff goes great in justa bout anything.

Looking Great there Kevin!! Mostly all my stuff is nursery stock as well. The windstorms here in april and march tear up small seedlings so I go with bigger nursery stock after the wind to make up for lost time.

Bob

[82muchhomework]

Nice idea with those plastic tubs Kevin!

I pretty much see a smoker or a planter in everything I look at now, but I've been passing those things at target and never thought ":idea:planter." Shame on me.

Building my first "earthtainer/box" thing this week to transplant some peppers in.

[landarc]

I have grown garlic off and on for most of my life, as a kid, we never bought garlic, we grew it and kept it is a shed in the garden, there was always one bunch that was destined for seed.

I believe there is a huge difference in variety, styles, flavor and heat in what you can grow versus what you can buy. Plus, I like knowing that I controlled the elements and chemicals that went into the growing. The scapes, bulblets and leaves can all be used for cooking. I prefer Chinese garlic leeks for use to the garlic leaves, but, they all work great.

[chobint]

weird, I guess my reply never got posted. Anyway, thanks for the input on the garlic/onions. It's been a while since my family has grown them, so I guess I'll have to give it another go some time.

[Mark]

Here's some pics of my garden tfrom inside my fence taken last week. More of the same outside the fence.

I'm getting lots of peppers and tomatoes so far and have already harvested my first crop of basil (purple stuff hanging fo sun drying).

The tomatoes and tomatillos are growing into the overhead grape fines. Then the grape tendrils grab onto the tomatoes and tomatillos so I no longer have to tie them. I know it looks crowded, and it is, but it works.

The really tall plants in the back of the last slide is tobacco.

[stiffy]

Here are photos from my fourth picking of the peppers and tomatoes, had some from another picking but accidentally deleted them, I should take pictures of my basil forest too, made pesto last night loving it all a lot!! Made three batches of fresh salsa and man does this stuff rock!!!!

[chobint]

Here are photos from my fourth picking of the peppers and tomatoes, had some from another picking but accidentally deleted them, I should take pictures of my basil forest too, made pesto last night loving it all a lot!! Made three batches of fresh salsa and man does this stuff rock!!!!

I can't see any of your pics.

Also, fresh salsa is the bomb. I would make it more often, but it usually results in me inhaling a bag of tortilla chips.

[stiffy]

hah sorry my bad,

here they are
Beefsteak, roma, and pear looking ones, and one other red variety
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a107/gangaspeed/100_2039.jpg

California Wonder Banana (Lt Green) and Cayenne Pepper (Dk Green)
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a107/gangaspeed/100_2038.jpg

[Saiko]

Topped off my 3 basil plants this morning and ended up with enough basil to cover this beach towel. Guess I'll be grinding out some pesto this afternoon! I see a food processor in my future....

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p236/mredman62/6fd0be7f.jpg


Edit: And, a couple of hours later, 5 cups of pesto about ready to get split up and headed for the freezer:
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p236/mredman62/59962aa5.jpg

[82muchhomework]

I have been overwhelmingly busy lately so I haven't been here for a while (studying for my licensure exam and starting work again). BUT, I have been watering the peppers.

Here is where they are at:

The lady on the right is one of many Yellow Jalapenos (curtesy of BobBrisket). It could use a bigger pot but its over 100* now and I don't want to stress it.
THe one in the back is my biggest Tepin (again curtesy of BB). Slow growin but awesome germination rate.
The two on the left are Chiluacle Negros (curtesy of SmokeJumper).
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_suEfT1W0q_4/TG_EO93z1zI/AAAAAAAABaI/jY74wOEAfqk/s512/IMAG0017.jpg

Same plants, different angle.
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_suEfT1W0q_4/TG_EUwxXiLI/AAAAAAAABaQ/MUFdJJYIzUc/s512/IMAG0016.jpg

The above pots are all sealed bottoms, with a layer of rocks in the bottom. Then I drilled a drain hole under the threshold of the rock layer to prevent over-watering while allowing the pot to retain a good amount of water to buffer the heat of the day. It is working well. I believe that is a modified version of Chobint's setup.


This is a raised planter I made: The three on the left are Chilhuacle negros. The two on the right are Yellow Jalapenos. You can spot a green chilhuacle if you look for it (kind of looks like a leaf).

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_suEfT1W0q_4/TG_EZy2Dw2I/AAAAAAAABaU/PsL35Q8okxU/s800/IMAG0018.jpg


Another Yellow Jalapeno (thanks Bob). THis thing was a monster right out of the gate. It is such a hardy plant and it is now flooded with peppers (the pictures are about a week old). I just pulled a beautify red ripe pepper from it (seen after this pic). The Yellow Jalapenos grew so well that they would make a great commercial strain IMHO.
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_suEfT1W0q_4/TG_ElCoTnZI/AAAAAAAABac/CZWsHKbj3jE/s512/IMAG0014.jpg

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_suEfT1W0q_4/THMWGXj4HCI/AAAAAAAABbE/of7LuDBxP7M/s800/IMAG0024.jpg


And my best growing Chilhuacle Negro (thanks Rob. At least I should be able to resupply the seeds for you, and I'll have learned how to make next year a much better harvest. I hope that once it cools off, the flowers will set with fruit better and I'll be able to send a bunch back to you. :pray:). This guy is in a big pot and I plan on keeping her inside under lights over the winter.
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_suEfT1W0q_4/TG_EfquXZpI/AAAAAAAABaY/xlB0bwIrx98/s512/IMAG0015.jpg


Thanks to all of you that have helped me be successful thus far. And thank you Bob and Rob for donating the seeds. I hope I have been a good steward of your generosity.



Two questions:

When do you know its optimal to harvest the peppers? Some fruit just pulls easier when its ready. I had to cut the ripened yellow jalapeno off the plant with scissors. It would not let go with the same tugging that tomatoes usually need. I want to make sure the seeds are viable.

Second
What is the best way to dry the peppers so as to avoid rotting and preserve the seeds for next season?


Thanks guys.

[chobint]

The produce looks awesome!

From the most recent post...

First question... not sure. I usually cut the pepper stems with a pocket knife or scissors. You'll notice that most grocery store peppers have stems attached, while the bulk tomatoes do not.

As for question two, from the most recent post, I have dried them three different ways with success.


Put a needle and thread thru the stem and hang in a nice dry place. Next to a window works well with the sun's heat to aid the process.
Electronic dehydrator. Edit: this should be done outside if the peppers are hot or if you have sensitive family members.
Smoke till nice and chipotle smokeydried :D


I have heard that dried peppers keep well in the freezer, but I usual don't have a batch large enough to freeze. Perhaps someone else can chime in on that point.

p.s. I lent my parents my fancy camera for their photography class, so I have not but a cellphone to take pics with. The garden is recovering quite well from the aphid infestation. I have about 6-8 peppers starting to form atm.

[Wampus]

MAN......How did I miss this thread this whole time????
We tried a LOT of seeds this spring for various herbs in a seed starter kit we bought with ZERO luck. For the first time, this year we also potted our seedlings that we bought from the store.

I really want to collect seeds from the tomatoes, banana peppers and jalepenos for next year's garden.

I'm planning on going MUCH bigger next year. We put in 3 raised beds this year and plan to at LEAST double it next year.




I just read this whole thread. I sure wish I'd found it this spring!
I've got lots of questions about starting seeds, these fantastic starter/seedling potters, lighting, etc.

I'd LOVE to get some Brethren seeds from peppers, etc., if anyone is willing to give some up. I have a lot of cherry, apple, oak and beech that I can chunk and trade?!!


Great thread.:thumb::thumb:

[Rover24]

Everyones produce looks so fantastic, that I have decided to get in on the fun! I jsut have a quick question before I start:

I have a sideyard that is long and narrow (4' x 35') that only gets sun for about an hour or two each day. Other than that, the yard stays shaded. The yard is very protected from wind and sun.

What types of plants would you reccommend for a space like this? I am most interested in planting tomatoes, garlic, herbs, peppers, cucumbers. Would any of these work?

[Big George's BBQ]

Very nice everyone I am jealous

[82muchhomework]

MAN......How did I miss this thread this whole time????
We tried a LOT of seeds this spring for various herbs in a seed starter kit we bought with ZERO luck. For the first time, this year we also potted our seedlings that we bought from the store.

I really want to collect seeds from the tomatoes, banana peppers and jalepenos for next year's garden.

I'm planning on going MUCH bigger next year. We put in 3 raised beds this year and plan to at LEAST double it next year.




I just read this whole thread. I sure wish I'd found it this spring!
I've got lots of questions about starting seeds, these fantastic starter/seedling potters, lighting, etc.

I'd LOVE to get some Brethren seeds from peppers, etc., if anyone is willing to give some up. I have a lot of cherry, apple, oak and beech that I can chunk and trade?!!


Great thread.:thumb::thumb:


Basically everything I learned about growing, was learned this season (my first), and was from this thread (along with some internet research and trial and error).


Ask away and someone will know.

[chobint]

Ok so interesting story... as mentioned previously, my garden was ravaged by aphids and only a few plants survived. Of the few, I have a pepper plant, that was essentially topped as a seedling from the insect damage. What I have now is a pygmy pepper plant (donno what variety yet). The leaf density is astounding, like nothing I've ever seen. The funny thing is, this is not a baby plant, it has TINY little buds that are waiting to burst into flowers. I am starting to wonder if the peppers themselves are gonna be minis or if there's gonna be full sized peppers on this half pint plant.

Depending on the results, I may do this intentionally to a few plants next time around. EDIT: Also, if this is successful, I may harvest some seeds. Thought I HIGHLY doubt that the miniaturization of this plant has anything to do with genetic mutation.

[landarc]

Ok so interesting story... as mentioned previously, my garden was ravaged by aphids and only a few plants survived. Of the few, I have a pepper plant, that was essentially topped as a seedling from the insect damage. What I have now is a pygmy pepper plant (donno what variety yet). The leaf density is astounding, like nothing I've ever seen. The funny thing is, this is not a baby plant, it has TINY little buds that are waiting to burst into flowers. I am starting to wonder if the peppers themselves are gonna be minis or if there's gonna be full sized peppers on this half pint plant.

Depending on the results, I may do this intentionally to a few plants next time around. EDIT: Also, if this is successful, I may harvest some seeds. Thought I HIGHLY doubt that the miniaturization of this plant has anything to do with genetic mutation.
What is interesting is that you appear to have very short internodal spacings on the leaves and the leaves are rugose (inter-vein wrinkling). This could well be some latent sport branch that did not grow when healthier branches were growing. Very interesting.

[82muchhomework]

I have basically fed my plants with a (4-6-3) organic powdered fertilizer, and Alaska Fish Emulsion (5-1-1). I was wondering if it would be beneficial to switch from the high nitrogen fish, to a bloom fertilizer like Alaska MorBloom (0-10-10) since the peppers are flowering and producing fruit now.

Also, my zucchinis are showing blossom end rot. I am concerned for the peppers (although they are in a different raised bed planter). Do I need to add Calcium? Is this done with Bonemeal? How and how much should I apply? Can I apply too much?

I'm starting to sound like those guys on the "green" forums.

[82muchhomework]

Everyones produce looks so fantastic, that I have decided to get in on the fun! I jsut have a quick question before I start:

I have a sideyard that is long and narrow (4' x 35') that only gets sun for about an hour or two each day. Other than that, the yard stays shaded. The yard is very protected from wind and sun.

What types of plants would you reccommend for a space like this? I am most interested in planting tomatoes, garlic, herbs, peppers, cucumbers. Would any of these work?

Bumping your question in case anyone has a better answer than me.

I THINK that most plants that bear fruit or vegetables need lots and lots of sun in order to produce the sugars in the food. It may be best to find a place that gets massive amounts of sun. I'm not saying that plants wont grow there, but I would imagine that they would not produce much compared to a full sun location.

Its probably better to take an experts advice over mine. Someone will join in. I'm interested in growing in the shade too.

[chobint]

What is interesting is that you appear to have very short internodal spacings on the leaves and the leaves are rugose (inter-vein wrinkling). This could well be some latent sport branch that did not grow when healthier branches were growing. Very interesting.

Wow... I had never heard of a plant sport before. After some reading, it turns out this could be an actual mutation. I would be ecstatic if somehow the seeds yielded plants with the same characteristics as this plant. I would attempt to propagate, but its sooo darn tiny. Apparently, given the proper climate, pepper plants can live for many years. I've heard stories of 5-10 years, so maybe I'll have a chance to keep the plant for many years since it's indoors.

btw, glad to hear my self-draining pot post has been put to good use!

[chobint]

Everyones produce looks so fantastic, that I have decided to get in on the fun! I just have a quick question before I start:

I have a sideyard that is long and narrow (4' x 35') that only gets sun for about an hour or two each day. Other than that, the yard stays shaded. The yard is very protected from wind and sun.

What types of plants would you reccommend for a space like this? I am most interested in planting tomatoes, garlic, herbs, peppers, cucumbers. Would any of these work?

Never hurts to throw some seeds in the ground and see what happens.

However, I do not recommend growing fruits n veggies in mostly shaded areas. I have tried it in a space similar to the one you described and the plants grew VERY slowly and didn't yield. They grow much faster in my closet and even faster in the sun. My space was located between two buildings, where the sun only directly hit it for ~2hrs per day.

If you can manage to find a space that gets half a day of sun, that can be sufficient for growing stuff.

[GMAC]

Anyone have any Chili Pequin's growing, i need some mature seeds and some advice on growing them.

[Mark]

Everyones produce looks so fantastic, that I have decided to get in on the fun! I jsut have a quick question before I start:

I have a sideyard that is long and narrow (4' x 35') that only gets sun for about an hour or two each day. Other than that, the yard stays shaded. The yard is very protected from wind and sun.

What types of plants would you reccommend for a space like this? I am most interested in planting tomatoes, garlic, herbs, peppers, cucumbers. Would any of these work?

Rocoto peppers at least tolerate shade better than most. Yellow Rocoto's supposedly prefer full shade according to this site:
http://www.g6csy.net/chile/var-y.html

[82muchhomework]

Anyone have any Chili Pequin's growing, i need some mature seeds and some advice on growing them.

I have Tepins (not sure if there is a difference).

I have about 15 little plants that haven't flowered yet. They are notoriously slow to germinate (30+ days I think) but my seeds sprouted in a matter of days after an overnight soaking in distilled water at room temp.

The plant that is doing the best is in a container from target that can be watered from below and allows the water to wick up the soil to the roots. If you read back in this thread, there are a ton of suggestions for different planters to this effect. They work well.

BobBrisket told me that they like to be protected by a tree or something nearby. All of my plants are in pots, but the ones that are doing the best are sandwiched between or behind other larger plants. I think he was absolutely correct in that advice.

[SmokeJumper]

I'm so excited that you got those going 82MH!! Let me know when you want a mole negro recipe...

[82muchhomework]

I'm so excited that you got those going 82MH!! Let me know when you want a mole negro recipe...


Me too! I'm tickled Pink!

And FUMING FARKIN MAD!!!!!!! The heat just brought in a host of ants and of course APHIDS!

There are also these microscopic little black bugs with some white lines on them. I looked at them under a microscope and they have two long legs with white bands at the joints and kind of look like a flea without the fat body. They are almost impossible to see (like dust that moves) but they are damaging the leaves. I hope what ever takes care of the aphids will take care of them too.

I'm going to go buy something tonight, or just use some soap and water.

Its hitting over 100* out here right now and I'm concerned that any product I use might hurt the plant in that heat.

What do you guys recommend?

Should I buy lady bugs, a spray/ powder insecticide, or soap and water?





EDIT: I just got back from buying ladybugs. I'll let you know how they do.

[chobint]

Insecticidal soap has served me well for aphids. It doesn't seem to negatively affect my plants (tomato, pepper, cilantro, etc...). I believe if you apply it at a time that allows the liquid to dry before the sun hits it hard, it shouldn't be much of a problem. Using a spray bottle is kind of a PITA though.

Never tried ladybugs, but people rave about them.

Oh also, I read that spraying your plants regularly and vigorously (as hard as they can handle) is one easy way to keep your plants aphid free, or at least under control. Not sure how well this will work once the infestation is in full swing. Maybe someone else can chime in. Good luck.

Me too! I'm tickled Pink!

And FUMING FARKIN MAD!!!!!!! The heat just brought in a host of ants and of course APHIDS!

There are also these microscopic little black bugs with some white lines on them. I looked at them under a microscope and they have two long legs with white bands at the joints and kind of look like a flea without the fat body. They are almost impossible to see (like dust that moves) but they are damaging the leaves. I hope what ever takes care of the aphids will take care of them too.

I'm going to go buy something tonight, or just use some soap and water.

Its hitting over 100* out here right now and I'm concerned that any product I use might hurt the plant in that heat.

What do you guys recommend?

Should I buy lady bugs, a spray/ powder insecticide, or soap and water?





I just pulled a few aphids off my arm. Now I feel like their everywhere. ARRRGH!

[Chef Jim]

I've used Lady bugs. they are fairly expensive and for some reason blamed me for their being in the bag. They promptly looked for a new home far, far away. Never to be seen again.:becky:

[82muchhomework]

Here is a picture of the damage to the leaves of a Chilhuacle negro. Some leaves are worse, but this was the best picture taken with my phone.

You can actually see some of the bugs in the picture. They pointy oval shaped, and black with white specks. The damage to the leaves looks like holes but they are not actually a hole. They have a clear film across the hole, like a window. In the picture, the damage just looks like white spots, but older leaves have larger "holes."

Does anybody know what they are?

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_suEfT1W0q_4/THc-7oEGhPI/AAAAAAAABbI/emijIa-6vYQ/s800/IMAG0027.jpg

[GMAC]

I believe the Pequin and the Tepin are very close. I picked some Pequins last time i was near San Antonio, but i can not get them to grow.

[chobint]

Happy winter farkers. Bout time to fire up the seedling in prep for next year eh? Ok maybe it's a tad early, but howabout some inspiration for the coming months.

I finally did reboot my garden from scratch and decided to go hydro. I've been having mild luck with the peppers (maybe two handfuls), but the herbs have been wildly successful. I have been DROWNING in dill and cilantro this winter and I love it! When I rip it all out and start again (in a couple of months), I will be going full on herbs and just buy the peppers from the market.

I've only taken a few pics so here they are.
(The most recent pic is after I've ripped out about 100lbs of dill. I accidentally planted the Mammoth variety :shock:)
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c179/chobint/IMG_2141_compressed-1.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c179/chobint/IMG_2165_compressed-1.jpg



(http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c179/chobint/?action=view&current=IMG_2165_compressed.jpg)