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ljh34465
03-14-2010, 01:16 PM
Tried some spares on the BGE yesterday. Indirect at 225 and kept waiting for some pull back. Pulled them at four hours with no pullback and they were overcooked, dry and basically yucky. Anyone have any idea why no pull back? Thanks, obviously I need all the help I can get:cry:

LMAJ
03-14-2010, 01:25 PM
Are you sure your temps are correct? 4 hours doesn't seem long for spares.

thirdeye
03-14-2010, 01:37 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/thirdeye2/Barbecue%2011/DSC08479a.jpg


I don't always get serious pull-back on my spares, but I'm also thinking that you didn't cook them long enough. If you were using your dome thermometer reading of 225° (and it's close to accurate) you were actually cooking about 190° actual at the grate. Below 200° spares are going to take a looooong time to cook tender.

chambersuac
03-14-2010, 03:19 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/thirdeye2/Barbecue%2011/DSC08479a.jpg


I don't always get serious pull-back on my spares, but I'm also thinking that you didn't cook them long enough. If you were using your dome thermometer reading of 225° (and it's close to accurate) you were actually cooking about 190° actual at the grate. Below 200° spares are going to take a looooong time to cook tender.


The temp readings are a bit different depending on if the plate setter is used, right, Thirdeye? I can't remember for sure.

I agree, though, it doesn't sound like they were cooked long enough.

thirdeye
03-14-2010, 03:28 PM
The temp readings are a bit different depending on if the plate setter is used, right, Thirdeye? I can't remember for sure.

I agree, though, it doesn't sound like they were cooked long enough.


Yes. When a plate setter (or pizza stone, fire bricks etc.) is used for an indirect set up, there can be as much as 30° difference between the dome thermometer reading and the temp at the grate. (which is right at the rim of the cooker when a plate setter is used)

On long cooks, the dome and actual temperatures will get closer together because of the mass of the cooker, and the warming of the meat. I notice this at about 8 or 10 hours into a cook.

Meat Burner
03-14-2010, 03:29 PM
Still confusing in that he stated the ribs were overcooked. That really doesn't make sence.

landarc
03-14-2010, 03:30 PM
Ditto, also, remember that pull-back is not a good method for determining whether ribs are done, and some ribs are just not going to pull back.

chambersuac
03-14-2010, 03:31 PM
Yes. When a plate setter (or pizza stone, fire bricks etc.) is used for an indirect set up, there can be as much as 30° difference between the dome thermometer reading and the temp at the grate. (which is right at the rim of the cooker when a plate setter is used)

On long cooks, the dome and actual temperatures will get closer together because of the mass of the cooker, and the warming of the meat. I notice this at about 8 or 10 hours into a cook.


Thanks, I think I recall Rick telling me something like that a while back. I gotta get more thermometers that sit on the grate so I can keep track of this stuff....

Saiko
03-14-2010, 04:15 PM
IMO, best way to tell when ribs are done is the bend test, no matter how much pull-back you have. Pick up a slab of ribs with a pair of tongs, and the rack should easily bend down at a 90 degree angle. Funkmasta South is demonstrating the technique in the pic below.
You can also probe the meat between the bones with toothpick, it should slide in easily.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p236/mredman62/Misc/ribsbend.jpg

barbefunkoramaque
03-14-2010, 04:46 PM
Frankly, as I remember it, that fat Fark holding those ribs cooked even those ribs more.. LOL

I have learned that the number one thing we should ask that posters post on here is whether they are ENHANCED ribs or not, then temp (to which I think your temp is low for 4 hours) and next the poster's definition itself,,, what is tender, what is ovbercooked, what is moist and such.

In this case 225 and 4 hours does not equal done.

IMO, best way to tell when ribs are done is the bend test, no matter how much pull-back you have. Pick up a slab of ribs with a pair of tongs, and the rack should easily bend down at a 90 degree angle. Funkmasta South is demonstrating the technique in the pic below.
You can also probe the meat between the bones with toothpick, it should slide in easily.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p236/mredman62/Misc/ribsbend.jpg

River City Smokehouse
03-14-2010, 05:11 PM
I have always gotten the pullback from foiling. Using the 3-2-1 method is how I've always done it.
http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z234/River_City_Smokehouse/Ribs006a.jpg

hellzya
03-14-2010, 05:11 PM
I also suffered the same fate this past Friday night, I smoked 2 racks at 225 for 5 hours and they still had no pull back nor did they come out tender. They did not come out dry, just lacking tenderness. At that point it was getting really late and the wobbly pops had taken hold so I had to stop cooking for the night. All was not lost as I cooked them in a little beer in the slow cooker the following morning and made some great sandwiches with the pulled rib meat.

CajunSmoker
03-14-2010, 05:57 PM
Cookin ribs is like voodoo. Shake dem bones, how do dey bend. Show me some knuckles pullin back;-). Seriously, I don't usually get much pull back until close to the end of the cook. If I get a little showing 1\4 inch or so, I'll foil for a while and then set my glaze

landarc
03-14-2010, 06:13 PM
You guys gotta allot more time for cooking spares and perhaps learn to pace the wobbly pops a bit more. A rack of ribs at 225F can take all of 6 hours, even more sometimes, they are worth doing at that temp and taking your time.

Nick@ParkAQ
03-15-2010, 11:33 AM
I agree low slow and long is the motto. the bend test has not failed me in re succulency of ribs. is that a word? Make sure you give em enough thyme :)
Park it! Grill it! Eat it!

Philly-QueMaster
03-15-2010, 11:41 AM
I have always gotten the pullback from foiling. Using the 3-2-1 method is how I've always done it.
http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z234/River_City_Smokehouse/Ribs006a.jpg

What kind of sauce is that? It looks awesome!

ljh34465
03-15-2010, 11:44 AM
Thanks everyone, really appreciate the input.

Something I did not mention is that I sprayed them with apple juice about every hour thinking that would keep them moist.

I did not do any foiling - seems a lot of people say ribs get mushy with foiling.

Will definitely check the grate temp next time and will get some pics as well.

Thanks again.

The BBQ QB
03-15-2010, 11:47 AM
For me,

St. Louis style ribs are done when that last bone just begins to twist easily and the ribs "flop" like in the photo above.

I do use longer tongs and try to grab exactly half the rack from the thin end.

Mike D

Saiko
03-15-2010, 12:45 PM
There is also the "Popdaddy's Parallelly Belly" test. Hold a rack out in front of you with a pair of tongs. If the hanging half is parallel to your belly, it's done. :biggrin1:

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p236/mredman62/Misc/ribsbend2.jpg

cireksu
03-15-2010, 01:05 PM
spares are hard to get right. I've had big thick slabs take 6+hours to get tender. I try to shop for smaller racks now.

luke duke
03-15-2010, 01:09 PM
Nice

The BBQ QB
03-15-2010, 01:51 PM
Saiko,

You mean like this?

http://i804.photobucket.com/albums/yy325/_Mike_D/FunkmastaBellyRibscopy.jpg

Looks like they're done then

Mike D

JiveTurkey
03-15-2010, 01:53 PM
I did not do any foiling - seems a lot of people say ribs get mushy with foiling.


They can if you leave them in the foil too long. What is too long? That all depends on temp and type of cooker you are using. Experimenting to find that right combo of smoke+foil for the perfect amount of time can make for some really good ribs. Every situation is different, what might work for me won't for someone else. Practice practice practice.

Jeff Selle
03-15-2010, 03:28 PM
I smoke my ribs at 270 to internal temp of 160, and then foil for about 45-minutes to an hour and then unwrap them at 175 to 180 internal and then I put them back on the rack mop them with sauce and cook for another 30-45 minutes. I pull my ribs at 190 and wrap & rest them for another 30 minutes. that usualltakes bewteen 4.5 and 5.5 hours depending on the circumstances...

EatRBBQ
03-16-2010, 12:50 PM
IMHO any ribs (baby back or St Louis cuts) that are meat heavy (thick cut) often don't pull back.

We prefer the thick meaty buggars just dripping with fat around the house for personal eats.

When I cook for money or competitions I try to select "middle of the road" ribs (not too boney and not too meaty) so that I get the pull back for presentation and appearance.

For the most part I use the bend test.

Perhaps the original poster had a meat heavy rack and undercooked them?

ljh34465
03-16-2010, 03:38 PM
OK, went to Sam's and got three huge racks of spares. Trimmed them to a St. Louis cut and will be trying them over the next week or so. Will try to document temps and supply photos of what I am working with.
Will try 3-2-1 and variations of that technique with pics and comments.

Have another thought and if any of you Mexican fans out there can add comments, would appreciate it. Thought of trying carnitas with the trimmings (not the skirt) - maybe simmer for a while and then bake to get crispy - thoughts anyone?? I love "real" carnitas and know it is usually done with a butt but I got some real healthy thick trimmings - what thinkest thou??:-D

Derek
03-16-2010, 03:46 PM
Thanks for the thread guys, I'm actually going to do my first ribs this weekend with my little bro, So basically you guys say to cook the ribs for 8 + hours and make sure the internal temp is 200*f?

thomasjurisd
03-16-2010, 03:55 PM
Thanks for the thread guys, I'm actually going to do my first ribs this weekend with my little bro, So basically you guys say to cook the ribs for 8 + hours and make sure the internal temp is 200*f?

I think the 3-2-1 method for ribs is 3 hours in the smoker, 2 hours on the smoker in foil (sprayed with applejuice/bourbon - or your fav mop), 1 hour without the foil back in the smoker. Temp around 250. So...6 hours.

ljh34465
03-16-2010, 04:00 PM
what I read was to pull at 190 internal and let rest - but, this thread is about St. Louis trim which IMO is a different creature than baby backs so keep that in mind. Again, IMO, baby backs are less thick, less meaty and may not take as much time. But FWIW, look at the title of the thread:-D:-D:-D

Derek
03-16-2010, 04:01 PM
what I read was to pull at 190 internal and let rest - but, this thread is about St. Louis trim which IMO is a different creature than baby backs so keep that in mind. Again, IMO, baby backs are less thick, less meaty and may not take as much time. But FWIW, look at the title of the thread:-D:-D:-DI didn't get the baby back ribs and I got the big boys :), Thanks LJ, I'll keep that in mind!

itschris
03-16-2010, 04:04 PM
What the op has described has been my experience with bb's since I got my smoker a couple or so years back. It's been hit or miss. I've always thought they're overdone, perhaps I've been wrong all along and they're still undercooked. I assumed because they were so tough, it was the former. The SAM's club ribs are usually quite thick, maybe I just need to keep them going for another hour or so I'm gonna try this weekend.

ljh34465
03-16-2010, 04:13 PM
Hey, itschris and derek, be sure to post what happens - this is now like an personal challenge to get 'em right.
Be sure to note your cooker - I am using a BGE.

We need to compare rather detailed notes - temp at the grate, how thick or meaty the ribs were, (pics would help) and what variation of 3-2-1 works for you.

What a horrible chore - having to work through all these ribs to finally get it right:-D:-D

Derek
03-16-2010, 05:15 PM
Hey, itschris and derek, be sure to post what happens - this is now like an personal challenge to get 'em right.
Be sure to note your cooker - I am using a BGE.

We need to compare rather detailed notes - temp at the grate, how thick or meaty the ribs were, (pics would help) and what variation of 3-2-1 works for you.

What a horrible chore - having to work through all these ribs to finally get it right:-D:-DSounds like a plan LJ!

JD08
03-16-2010, 06:45 PM
I've never done anything other than 3-1-1 with baby backs and St Louis ribs. My last batch of St Louis were definitely meat heavy and probably could have used a little longer in the foil. But they were definitely tender and had minimal pullback.

I used a large BGE @ 250.

Derek
03-16-2010, 07:33 PM
I've never done anything other than 3-1-1 with baby backs and St Louis ribs. My last batch of St Louis were definitely meat heavy and probably could have used a little longer in the foil. But they were definitely tender and had minimal pullback.

I used a large BGE @ 250.What about spare ribs?

River City Smokehouse
03-16-2010, 07:43 PM
What kind of sauce is that? It looks awesome!
I use my own sauce and rub recipes.

River City Smokehouse
03-16-2010, 07:57 PM
You must remember that the 3-2-1 method is not a science. It is merely a guideline to go by. I tend to use a 3-1-1 a lot because of the size of the ribs I get. You need to practice and see what fits.

itschris
03-17-2010, 08:44 AM
I'm gonna give it a shot. I have a Brinkmann Cimarron Delux. I'm gonna lay them flat, bone side down, parallel with the smoker since they typically don't fit laying front to back. I'm not gonna foil this time.... I'm just gonna go old school and let them sit uniterrupted... I don't even think I'm gonna spray them. I just want to see if I can get them tender. That's all I care about at this point and it' smy only goal for now.

Ron_L
03-17-2010, 12:21 PM
Thanks for the thread guys, I'm actually going to do my first ribs this weekend with my little bro, So basically you guys say to cook the ribs for 8 + hours and make sure the internal temp is 200*f?

It's very hard to go by temp with ribs. The meat between the bones is relatively thin and if your temp probe is off by even 1/8 inch you get a different reading. Use the bend test as described and illustrated earlier in the thread or use a toothpick between the bones and go by feel.

BTW, as mentioned, 3-2-1 is just a guideline. Someone mentioned in another thread that they use 3-2-til-it's-done for spares at 225. 2-1-til-it's-done is a decent guideline for baby backs.

It also depends on the cooker. My FEC cooks faster at the same temp than my WSM or my BGE, so you have to experiment and learn your cooker. The nice part is that most of the experiments will still be better than anything you can find in a restaurant! :thumb:

barbefunkoramaque
03-17-2010, 12:39 PM
It also makes a difference the LOAD you place on the smoker.

For instance, the BBQ company in my town I love the guy and want to improve his Q because he reflects on my town.

One day I am explaining Hot and fast and we experiment, Now he uses two Oyler 1300 that can do 1800 pounds EACH at a time if the racks are done right.

So anyway I doctor up three with the tri level rub and he is telling me he is gonna place a load of ribs on. Now normally he does not use the triple racking. I wanted to show him a trick to my ribs that make people go nuts... that my beef briskets drip on the pork ribs the whole time.

Anyway I dial in 270 degrees and am calculating done time with maybe 800 pounds or ribs or something else in there. I ONLY PUT 3 Briskets ON!!!!!! We put them on at 9 and i said flip them at 2 or something.

He calls me saying "no way I am doing my briskets this way ever again, the briskets are BURNED!" I was like what? He NEVER placed the other meat in... so in essence.... think of it this way

30 pounds of brisket in a machine that can cook 1800 lbs can differ a BUNCH (even at the same temp) with 3 briskets placed in the same smoker that has 500 - 800 or so pounds in it or more.

Its kinda like when instructions say if your cooking two pies add such and such more time.

Saiko
03-17-2010, 02:32 PM
It also makes a difference the LOAD you place on the smoker.
30 pounds of brisket in a machine that can cook 1800 lbs can differ a BUNCH (even at the same temp) with 3 briskets placed in the same smoker that has 500 - 800 or so pounds in it or more.

I'm guessing that the humidity plays a big role in this instance. The humidity in the smoker is going to be a lot lower with 3 briskets in a huge rig vs 3 briskets in a small smoker.

itschris
03-17-2010, 03:00 PM
Okay, I'll buy the load arguement.. so my smoker, is 3 racks of ribs concerned a big load?