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View Full Version : Brisket and your Rub (For the Funky Only)


barbefunkoramaque
02-21-2009, 05:55 PM
24265
Crucial George Clinton (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JbUP-skb7E&feature=related)
Most of you who have seen my videos know I use a triple Layer of Ingredients. This makes for a great and flavorful bark and one of the primary reasons for this is my friend George Clinton (Salt).

24266
The true base of the Funk is Not James Brown (Brown Sugar) but Clinton because JB was immersed in soul before funk was created. (He actually fired Larry Graham for Plucking the bass then hired Bootsie Collins)

24270
Crucial James Brown (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DAfBZbz3tI&feature=related)
This is why I named George Clinton as Salt because in the funk world he is most high, and architect if you will, just like JB is to Soul and Little Richard (White Sugar) is to Rock and roll.

24267
Crucial Larry Graham, father of the Slap Plucking Bassline (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2_SreKsg2k&feature=PlayList&p=2B17B9FFC16AD186&index=0&playnext=1)

Okay, now that the funkless have clicked out of this little lesson because they can't or don't want to understand I will give you the lesson on our friend, Salt.

Rule 1: Salt is important to BBQ because it is a carrier of flavor. This is one of the reasons why those ribs soaked in "solution" are crappy... its because you cannot carry flavor efficiently into the meat if its already filled with salt.

Salt molecules grab onto whatever you got in your rub or smoke and really funk thangs up and get it all stanky. For you rednecks, headbangers and hillbillys still tuned in, stank is good in the funk world.

The tastes in your rubs, steam, smoke, fat cap, and mops (if you use one for shortcutting) all get linked to salt as it slowly makes its way through your meat. We will ignore Injections as we are talking about flavor going from the outside in not spreading from the inside all around.

There is a parallel to the beat of the funk (an emphasis on the one) that George Clinton says defines Funk Music in that listening to its grooves make the head INVOLUNTARILY bob and the spine whip round. This is what Salt does.

So... of course y'all all know this... but consider this... a few days ago the Great Bigmista said "everyone should make a brisket with just salt and pepper once" [of course he also said Bark was overrated but I happen to know that was to throw newbies, sorry neil], and I agree, the one caveat being that I think your first Brisket should be done in the oven wrapped in foil ONCE then never use foil again but try and emulate that central texture the rest of your days (without foil).

Now why?????????

Rule 2: R A T I O.... the less other ingredients that are in your rub the more salt there will be. The more spices you add the less there will be on the meat when you rub it.

Rule 3:A mass of meat can only hold so much rub. It is finite.

The German BBQ houses in The Texas Meccas use George Clinton and Larry Graham (Cracked Pepper) and maybe one or two other ingredients. Arguably the BEST Brisket in Texas (Voted by say...the State Leg) use ONLY salt and Pepper[s] HINT.

The more X you add even with the same amount of salt the lower your salt ratio goes. Want to double up on your rub?.. see rule 3. Want to add a more prominent spice to flavor your brisket? see rule 1.

So why do so many fail at brisket? Same reason I did way back in the 80's even after working at one of the Meccas (Old Kreuz) and working on my little team from Denton, Texas at the Taylor. 20 or so years ago I set out to make a complex rub that could be used for other things. In doing this I FORGOT the basics, or rather didn't realize it was a basic and decided to set out and mix up some ingredients and dump it on my brisket. The more I fretted about that rub the further I got from the Funk. And the more I concentrated on taste by ingredient, the further I got from taste by technique.

My Butt Glitter Sprinkle honestly has 13 things in it but a 8 to 4 ratio of Tina Turner (paprika) to George Clinton (Salt.) Imagine, as complex as it is, how mild a flavor it had on a chunk of meat when you think of how low the salt ratio became. (It had 8 parts Tina 4 parts Clinton and about one part each of the other 10 ingredients. Heck that's... uh shoot... 18 to 4 Spice to Salt ratio.) No wonder I settled on a three layer technique that has Lawrys in the first layer and coarse salts in the third.

24268
Crucial Tina Turner (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YAfqZk7P1M&feature=related)

The Butt Glitter Sprinkle is good for all sorts of things, really good on ribs (where the meat is thinner and easier to penetrate flavor), and I use it as a BACKGROUND, but not a BASSLINE to my funk take on briskets, clods and shoulders. Also, additional sprinkles of coarse salt during the cooking process can introduce incredible flavor that puts a mop to shame (sorry moppers) and actually dries the meat out less. A note about Ribs and Salt... The Neely's Rub (if you like the Rub, had NO salt... but they add it in the beginning... lesson... ribs don't need near as much salt.)

24271
Fellow Brethren ThirdEye (http://playingwithfireandsmoke.blogspot.com/) Brisket (Arguably the best Photo of Brisket and what it can be I have ever seen.


Paul Kirk has a valuable lesson to learn on Rubs and Ratios and making your own "personal" taste. So on your next brisket... stop using store bought rubs for a minute and try some Clinton, Larry Graham and maybe one other ingredient.

Also, when doing this, chuck the injections, rubs, foils (butcher paper is okay) and mops and just check it out. This gets us to the dawn of the funk y'all, then start building your rub gently from there. Let the Bassline carry the audience into a sweaty mass of Funk.


Pitmaster T (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQCeXzhWz3U&feature=PlayList&p=70A4BAEF4CB51071&index=0)

jestridge
02-21-2009, 06:55 PM
Thanks for the lesson on salt.

Bigmista
02-21-2009, 07:06 PM
In depth analysis. I like it! Of course I like most stuff where I'm used as a reference.

barbefunkoramaque
02-21-2009, 07:13 PM
In depth analysis. I like it! Of course I like most stuff where I'm used as a reference.

Sour Salt has its merits as well you know.

Norcoredneck
02-21-2009, 07:27 PM
Is that the method and ingredients Thirdeye used on his beautiful brisket? Oh yeah forgot music picture reference
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a282/Murphy6/milli_vanilli.gif

txschutte
02-21-2009, 07:28 PM
In other words: Keep It Simple Stupid. I have been kicking my own arse trying to make a rub that was too complex. When I dumbed it down, I had a better product after cooking. Now, I'm in the process of how to layer the ingredients.

Thanks T.

jeffjenkins1
02-21-2009, 07:31 PM
Nice in depth analysis. Man I got to smoke something now!

Jeff

barbefunkoramaque
02-21-2009, 07:34 PM
Well, I think we are close on technique... I know he made me add and extra little trick to get that smoke ring that I use now. I think I am a bit higher in temp too... just a bit though. I am not sure he is a wrapper... I pan my briskets and if they are stubborn or the humidity is low I will wrap in butcher paper.

Is that the method and ingredients Thirdeye used on his beautiful brisket? Oh yeah forgot music picture reference
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a282/Murphy6/milli_vanilli.gif

bowhnter
02-21-2009, 08:05 PM
I learned...Wish I would have seen this before I cooked that flat today.

jacob
02-21-2009, 08:10 PM
OK I didn't read every thing or click the links. With that said the meat looks really nice.

thirdeye
02-21-2009, 08:34 PM
Hey, welcome back to the neighborhood......be careful what you dis until you have tried the Salt & Pepper Camel Walk.

10 ounces of water
3T George Clinton
1T Bootsy Collins
A splash of Sir Duke
A few drops of Frank Sinatra :biggrin:

Heat the water, add ingredients. Use on a steak following the turn, brisket, roasts, tri-tip etc., 2 or 3 times during the cook.

Bob S
02-21-2009, 08:47 PM
Thanks for the advice. I will definitely try a salt and pepper brisket and see what I get.

barbefunkoramaque
02-21-2009, 09:25 PM
Hey, welcome back to the neighborhood......be careful what you dis until you have tried the Salt & Pepper Camel Walk.

10 ounces of water
3T George Clinton
1T Bootsy Collins
A splash of Sir Duke
A few drops of Frank Sinatra :biggrin:

Heat the water, add ingredients. Use on a steak following the turn, brisket, roasts, tri-tip etc., 2 or 3 times during the cook.


Frank Sinatra? LOL what is that? Olive Oil? I am not disrespecting the mops I just am a stingy sob when it comes to the fuel and if I could make a mop that would spray automatically without opening the pit and knocking off my large grains I would.

Just so there is no confusion... I did make one (nozzles drilled in top of pit) out of a johnson sprayer but the nozzles clogged (from the smoke) and spewed streams after a few hours.

Buy the way... ur Camel Walk needs a bit of Aretha Franklin (Vinegar) to open the pores.

thirdeye
02-21-2009, 09:47 PM
Frank Sinatra? LOL what is that? Olive Oil? I am not disrespecting the mops I just am a stingy sob when it comes to the fuel and if I could make a mop that would spray automatically without opening the pit and knocking off my large grains I would.

Just so there is no confusion... I did make one (nozzles drilled in top of pit) out of a johnson sprayer but the nozzles clogged (from the smoke) and spewed streams after a few hours.

Buy the way... ur Camel Walk needs a bit of Aretha Franklin (Vinegar) to open the pores.

Heheeee. Yep, a touch of old blue eyes makes it hang on.

I might try a little "Respect" in my beef mop......My pork mop is a NC vinegar mop, and is a water + cider vinegar + salt + cayenne mix.

JD McGee
02-21-2009, 10:14 PM
I tried really hard to follow this one because I can use all the help I can get with my brisket. I took Paul's class last year and his brisket rub has 9 ingredients...believe it or not...there is not a lick of George Clinton by his self...it's combined with garlic..."Garlic Clinton"... :cool:

bigabyte
02-22-2009, 06:42 AM
Great post!:cool: I agree about salt carrying flavor.:wink:

Norcoredneck
02-22-2009, 06:44 AM
Great post!:cool: I agree about salt carrying flavor. Scientifically speaking of course :wink:

Helped clarify.:biggrin:

HeSmellsLikeSmoke
02-22-2009, 07:14 AM
So, does this explain why the post oak smoke "flavor" is so intense in the savory bark and deep into the brisket at Kreuz's, Smitty's and Black's?

To my taste buds, that is what distinguishes central texas brisket from any other I have tasted. The simple, primarily salt and pepper, rub lets the beef flavor come out, but the smoke does the talking.

Although I am not fond of funk or obfuscation, this is a great discussion.

Desert Dweller
02-22-2009, 08:01 AM
English is hard enough for me to understand...

DDave
02-22-2009, 09:58 AM
You crack me up, man. I love your style. I saw several of your YouTube videos before I found the Brethren

Great information on the rubs.

I liked the Larry Graham video too.:biggrin:

Dave

BarberQue
02-22-2009, 11:07 AM
Very cool post!! Thanks for the documentary.

JD McGee
02-22-2009, 11:35 AM
I tried really hard to follow this one because I can use all the help I can get with my brisket. I took Paul's class last year and his brisket rub has 9 ingredients...believe it or not...there is not a lick of George Clinton by his self...it's combined with garlic..."Garlic Clinton"... :cool:

Gotta add to my post here...

This is Paul's Brisket Rub from his book "Championship BBQ"...not sure if it is the one we used at his Pit Master class last year because it was pre-made and supplied to all participants. But...it has the same ratios and number of spices that he required us to use when building our own rubs. The only difference was that we did not use Worcestershire sauce as a pre-rub marinade.

1/2 cup Worcestershire sauce
1/4 cup dark brown sugar (packed)
1 tablespoon garlic salt
1 tablespoon coarse black pepper
1 tablespoon sweet Hungarian paprika
1 tablespoon chili powder
1 teaspoon celery salt
1/4 teaspoon ground allspice
1/4 teaspoon ground thyme

This is enough rub for a 7-12 lb brisket. It is smoked @ 230-250 degrees indirect for 45-60 minutes per lb.

Funk...if I'm following your drift...you recommend more salt (as a flavor carrier) than anything else. If that is the case how can we achieve the awesome bark shown in Wayne's brisket pic (not knowing his ingredients) without a sugar based rub or mop?

BigAl
02-22-2009, 01:07 PM
24265
Pitmaster T (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQCeXzhWz3U&feature=PlayList&p=70A4BAEF4CB51071&index=0)

Why post a link to a video that is "no longer available":confused::icon_pissed

BigAl
02-22-2009, 03:10 PM
Well after the 4th try, it worked.

Rick's Tropical Delight
02-22-2009, 03:24 PM
i saw george clinton and the p-funk all-stars with the violent femmes opening for them.


so the violent femmes would be what... lavender?
:biggrin:

barbefunkoramaque
02-22-2009, 04:14 PM
You crack me up, man. I love your style. I saw several of your YouTube videos before I found the Brethren

Great information on the rubs.

I liked the Larry Graham video too.:biggrin:

Dave

My crack induced videos are designed to bring more people into this great forum. I honestly love this forum and its an honor to promote it and get new members in. Welcome to the BB.

barbefunkoramaque
02-22-2009, 04:21 PM
Funk...if I'm following your drift...you recommend more salt (as a flavor carrier) than anything else. If that is the case how can we achieve the awesome bark shown in Wayne's brisket pic (not knowing his ingredients) without a sugar based rub or mop?

I don't wrap. I don't mop. bUT i DO REST. My Bark looks the same... Thanks to Thirdeye's tip my ring looks the same too. I have no digital cam and the resolution on my video is not good enough. In essense, thirdeyes bark I use because its a good sample and A GOOD PHOTO.

barbefunkoramaque
02-22-2009, 04:23 PM
i saw george clinton and the p-funk all-stars with the violent femmes opening for them.


So the violent femmes would be what... Lavender?
:biggrin:

v8 lol

thirdeye
02-22-2009, 04:32 PM
Funk...if I'm following your drift...you recommend more salt (as a flavor carrier) than anything else. If that is the case how can we achieve the awesome bark shown in Wayne's brisket pic (not knowing his ingredients) without a sugar based rub or mop?

Rule # 12 from my Ramblings Of A Briskateer is:

Never use sugar in your brisket rub .... I was taught not to use a sugar based rub, and that is one thing I have stuck with.

So, I know for sure I didn't have any sugar on it.....I can't say for sure what I used on that particular brisket but I can tell you this.....My choice of seasoning is very basic and I apply it 2 or 3 hours before cooking. I've never actually measured the amounts. (although recently, I've been getting some pointers as to the ratio from a guy in the know :biggrin:) As a minimum seasoning I use fine grind canning or sea salt, coarse black pepper, and cayenne. (if this is mixed ahead of time and stored in a Mason jar something special happens, it's better than just sprinkling on the ingredients separately). Adding granulated garlic and sometimes granulated onion (my favorite being the toasted granulated onion from Penzey's) is the next option.

My next choice for seasoning is a Smokey Hale mixture of

1 cup coarse sea or kosher salt
cup granulated garlic
cup granulated onion
1/8 cup ground thyme
1/8 cup ground bay
1/8 cup black pepper
1/8 cup celery seed
1/8 cup Hungarian paprika

Rick's Tropical Delight
02-22-2009, 04:40 PM
v8 lol

:biggrin:

watertowerbbq
02-22-2009, 04:54 PM
maybe there is a little funk in all of us :-D

i'm definately going to make my next brisket a salt and pepper brisket.

i'm sure this is a loaded questions, but how much is too much Clinton and Grahmn? don't want to over do it, but don't want to skimp either.

please help with the funk! thanks in advance.

Bigmista
02-22-2009, 05:54 PM
I don't use sugar in my brisket rub either and I have been getting awesome results using the tri-level rub.

Side note: I used some butt glitter sprinkle on some brined chicken today and the ladies tore it up!

barbefunkoramaque
02-22-2009, 07:18 PM
I don't use sugar in my brisket rub either and I have been getting awesome results using the tri-level rub.

Side note: I used some butt glitter sprinkle on some brined chicken today and the ladies tore it up!

Thanks Neil

I will say this about my rub... there's some Don Cornelius Seed in it. Brush and brush, those little devils won't get entirely outta your mouf until you use a waterpic.

Days later I will pick out a tiny seed and the flavor of Don Cornelius Pops out. Of course when you taste the rub all at once you can't tell Don is there... but when that little seed comes out later... you know at least THAT is in it.

I thought you didn't like the Tina Turner in my rub Neil? Thought "it doesn't bring much to the table" (according to my records of our conversations). :-P

My rub was designed to give more background to my stuff, I add more salts for beef, sugars (late) for ribs at times. Or pepper.

I could START A ****E WAR and say that certain championship Qers we may or may have not talked about purposely leave out correct salt amounts in their rub for this reason... the salt they add INFORMALLY will then set their same exact rub you may be using into another world.

For instance.... I noticed this once with a Mikeska Recipe that Bobby Flay videod then put on the site. The quantities are completely different.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_30Ne8q64k

I have seen Milroy's do it too.

Neil, you like it now HUH?

Now SOMEBODY ASKED ABOUT BALANCE OF LARRY TO SALT.

Don't use fine grains of salt when doing this.... (just salt and pepper I mean)
Rubbing in this case is encouraged!!! Ignore that pesky pore's argument. How should you rub.... Imagine you are trying to use sand to rough up the surface of a piece of wood. Rub it into all those crevices.


Hee hee hee

Ratios.... I have never made a brisket too salty using coarse salts. even at 2 to 1

Okay... here I post again

http://www.roadfooddigest.com/post/2008/09/Taylor-Texas-BBQ-Video-ndash3b-Bobby-Mueller-Clips.aspx

barbefunkoramaque
02-22-2009, 07:33 PM
NEIL when you gonna introduce that Fried Chicken Dust and Love Gravy recipe I sent you last year?

JD McGee
02-22-2009, 08:31 PM
Rule # 12 from my Ramblings Of A Briskateer is:

Never use sugar in your brisket rub .... I was taught not to use a sugar based rub, and that is one thing I have stuck with.

So, I know for sure I didn't have any sugar on it.....I can't say for sure what I used on that particular brisket but I can tell you this.....My choice of seasoning is very basic and I apply it 2 or 3 hours before cooking. I've never actually measured the amounts. (although recently, I've been getting some pointers as to the ratio from a guy in the know :biggrin:) As a minimum seasoning I use fine grind canning or sea salt, coarse black pepper, and cayenne. (if this is mixed ahead of time and stored in a Mason jar something special happens, it's better than just sprinkling on the ingredients separately). Adding granulated garlic and sometimes granulated onion (my favorite being the toasted granulated onion from Penzey's) is the next option.

My next choice for seasoning is a Smokey Hale mixture of

1 cup coarse sea or kosher salt
cup granulated garlic
cup granulated onion
1/8 cup ground thyme
1/8 cup ground bay
1/8 cup black pepper
1/8 cup celery seed
1/8 cup Hungarian paprika

Thanks Wayne...what pit do you use and what temps do you smoke your briskets...if I may ask? I'm very interested in trying your above mentioned rub. I'm not a big fan of sweet when it comes to beef and your rub sounds right up my alley. :-P

I don't wrap. I don't mop. bUT i DO REST. My Bark looks the same... Thanks to Thirdeye's tip my ring looks the same too. I have no digital cam and the resolution on my video is not good enough. In essense, thirdeyes bark I use because its a good sample and A GOOD PHOTO.

Got it...thanks Funk...:-P

thirdeye
02-22-2009, 08:55 PM
Thanks Wayne...what pit do you use and what temps do you smoke your briskets...if I may ask? I'm very interested in trying your above mentioned rub. I'm not a big fan of sweet when it comes to beef and your rub sounds right up my alley. :-P

I start all briskets off with a low temperature fire, 200 if I can hold it. Pecan is my wood of choice. After a couple of hours I ramp up the pit temp to 225-240 and usually finish around 250 or 275. In my BDS I start fat side down for 2 hours, turn fat side up for 3 or 4 hours, turn fat side down until finished. On my Big Green Egg, I use an indirect set-up and cook fat side down for the entire cook.

When I inject them, I use:

1 can beef broth
2 to 3 teaspoons of beef soup base, paste form (this must be to taste as the strength changes from brand to brand)
1 or 2 tablespoons Worcestershire sauce
1 tablespoon olive oil

Bigmista
02-22-2009, 09:04 PM
Thanks Neil

I will say this about my rub... there's some Don Cornelius Seed in it. Brush and brush, those little devils won't get entirely outta your mouf until you use a waterpic.

Days later I will pick out a tiny seed and the flavor of Don Cornelius Pops out. Of course when you taste the rub all at once you can't tell Don is there... but when that little seed comes out later... you know at least THAT is in it.

I thought you didn't like the Tina Turner in my rub Neil? Thought "it doesn't bring much to the table" (according to my records of our conversations). :-P



I ran out of my Cluckin' Sunshine (chicken Rub) and Brand New Funk (Rib Rub) and didn't have ingredients at the market to make more. I took the Butt Glitter Sprinkle as a backup and it worked great.

bigabyte
02-22-2009, 09:13 PM
Brisket bark is not from sugar more than it is from pepper and coarse salt from what I have noticed. If you put other spices in yoour rub, it will be in there too, but just a simple coarse salt and pepper rub will make quite a bark by the time the brisket is done. I think the fact that the coarse salt remains on the outside shows that it is not going to make the brisket salty. Now, if you put a finer grained salt on first, like the seasoned salt Donnie-Pitmaster-T is talking about here, that stuff is gonna get sucked right into the meat, along with the flaovrs of the rubs. Heck, now I'm repeating what Donnie already said.

In short, coarse salt and black pepper makes a mean brisket bark.

barbefunkoramaque
02-23-2009, 08:34 AM
Brisket bark is not from sugar more than it is from pepper and coarse salt from what I have noticed. If you put other spices in yoour rub, it will be in there too, but just a simple coarse salt and pepper rub will make quite a bark by the time the brisket is done. I think the fact that the coarse salt remains on the outside shows that it is not going to make the brisket salty. Now, if you put a finer grained salt on first, like the seasoned salt Donnie-Pitmaster-T is talking about here, that stuff is gonna get sucked right into the meat, along with the flaovrs of the rubs. Heck, now I'm repeating what Donnie already said.

In short, coarse salt and black pepper makes a mean brisket bark.

Chris... I work hard... hard thinking of new ways to give out answers and "obscure" what I am saying for those that don't want to listen. I was hoping with the wealth of words I puked out about this subject the tip about the season salt (small grain) would go unnoticed. Then you go out and draw attention to it. LOL

And one thing about Paul Kirk (admirable Talent for sure).

If your using his rubs and techniques, and are not satisfied with the product entirely... then maybe you are wishing to exceed his brisket.... which is entirely possible. He would laugh at this for sure.

Remember, competition briskets are made to impress the judges after having about 1 or 2 square inches (what they average to taste). You have to wow the judge often with only the pretty little shaving of flat meat you present.

A plate of good brisket (point/flat/and burnt end or two) that you get from a joint satisfies on many different levels.

Remember... HONESTLY, you do NOT eat with your eyes first.

Anyonme want to challenge that statement??????????????

HeSmellsLikeSmoke
02-23-2009, 09:12 AM
I have read that "salt penetrates and sugar seals". They don't use sugar in the rub at the central Texas joints perhaps for that very reason.

Bbq Bubba
02-23-2009, 09:14 AM
English is hard enough for me to understand...

Could someone translate this thread into english please......

On edit.....

Nevermind, i just tried to re-read and noticed it was for the funky.

I guess i skipped that class! :roll:

bigabyte
02-23-2009, 09:28 AM
I rubbed various sugars on pieces of pork once as part of a rub ingredient experiment and all the sugar (except the turbinado) was absorbed into the meat. No sealing occurred. I would imagine if high heat was applied to the sugar before it was absorbed, then it would harden and seal, but I don't think that happens in BBQ cooking. That's more like Creme Brulee stuff there.

JD McGee
02-23-2009, 10:44 AM
In reply to Funk's above post...

And one thing about Paul Kirk (admirable Talent for sure).

Agreed...

If your using his rubs and techniques, and are not satisfied with the product entirely... then maybe you are wishing to exceed his brisket.... which is entirely possible. He would laugh at this for sure.

Always looking to improve...

Remember, competition briskets are made to impress the judges after having about 1 or 2 square inches (what they average to taste). You have to wow the judge often with only the pretty little shaving of flat meat you present.

Not looking to impress the judges pallets...just my wife's! :-P Hers is a bit more discerning! :lol:

A plate of good brisket (point/flat/and burnt end or two) that you get from a joint satisfies on many different levels.

Agreed...

Remember... HONESTLY, you do NOT eat with your eyes first.

I do...my wife does...If I see two plates side by side with the same entree...I'm going for the better presented of the two. Same with turn in boxes for comps...if presentation is not important...why have them?

Anyonme want to challenge that statement??????????????

Yep...:twisted:

Desert Dweller
02-23-2009, 11:35 AM
Could someone translate this thread into english please......

On edit.....

Nevermind, i just tried to re-read and noticed it was for the funky.

I guess i skipped that class! :roll:

That's all I meant. I'm not even sure what the heck funk is, but I guess it ain't me. I always figured that if a guy really wanted to promote bbq, and share a wealth of knowledge he'd make it easy to understand and not seek to obscure info or knowledge...

tommykendall
02-23-2009, 11:46 AM
Despite the funk overtone of this thread, there's some damn good information in here. This is definitely roadmap material.

Bigmista
02-23-2009, 11:46 AM
When you can snatch the pebble from my hand Grasshopper...

jonboy
02-23-2009, 12:17 PM
Just a quick question...how long do you wait after applying of rubs until it goes into the pit? Is rubbing best right before cooking or does the brisket benefit from the rub(salt) if allowed to rest overnight?
jonathan

Dave98
02-23-2009, 12:22 PM
Thanks for the lesson. :-P

You are absolutely right. Last year, I tried going "Salt-free" because I read where it draws the moisture out of the meat. My brisket did not score as well nor taste like I wanted. :eek:

The problem being it took a whole comp season to go back........

What a bonehead.

bowhnter
02-23-2009, 12:35 PM
Chris... I work hard... hard thinking of new ways to give out answers and "obscure" what I am saying for those that don't want to listen.

I want to listen and learn, but sometimes, man, I just don't get it :confused:. Especially when I am working.

I think this is the first thread where I have gotten something out of it, due to your extra explanations at the very beginning. :cool:

Or, maybe provide a funk dictionary for us to refer to :wink:. I can't remember all the names to ingrediants to meanings.

thirdeye
02-23-2009, 12:42 PM
I want to listen and learn, but sometimes, man, I just don't get it :confused:. Especially when I am working.

I think this is the first thread where I have gotten something out of it, due to your extra explanations at the very beginning. :cool:

Or, maybe provide a funk dictionary for us to refer to :wink:. I can't remember all the names to ingrediants to meanings.

I asked for the same thing last year.....here it is. Oh yeah, I added the Frank Sinatra. :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

The Legends

Salt George Clinton
Sugar Little Richard
Brown Sugar James Brown
Garlic (Specify Powder or Minced) Prince
Onion (Specify Powder or Minced) Rick James
Black Pepper Larry Graham
Red Pepper or Cayenne Bootsy Collins
Paprika Tina Turner
Bell Pepper Archie Bell
Sam Cooke Large Grained “Smokin Stuff”
Honey Taste of Honey
Corn Syrup (Dark only – there is no light) Jackie Wilson
Mustard (Specify Powder or Prepared) Fred Wesley
Worcestershire Sauce Sir Duke
Bacon B. B. King
Ketchup Sly Stone
Chili Powder Carlos Santana
Lemon Juice Chubby Checker
Mayonnaise Michael Jackson
Apple Cider Vinegar Aretha Franklin
Ginger Teena Marie
Butter George Benson
Peach Francine Barker
Richard Pryor Coke
Billy D. Williams Colt 45 or Equivalent
Olive oil – Jesse Johnson (NOT Frank Sinatra as suggested by by thirdeye 2-21-09)

VERBS
To Smoke Smokey Robinson
To Roast Dark Closet and Some Sam
Cooke
Time of Cook Morris Day = Hours
The Time = Minutes
To Boil Mother Popcorn
To Simmer Philup Bailey
To Chill Cold Sweat
To Sautee Flashlight
Honey Golden Color
To Blend Make it Funky
To Baste or Mop Do the Camel Walk
To Marinate Overnight Boogie Night
Spoiled or nasty as in the opposite of Funky (Good) James Taylor
To Rest Hit It and Quit
Close the High Hat Up Put on a Lid
Back off your Mics (Microphones) Lower the Heat

barbefunkoramaque
02-23-2009, 12:50 PM
Remember... HONESTLY, you do NOT eat with your eyes first.

I do...my wife does...If I see two plates side by side with the same entree...I'm going for the better presented of the two. Same with turn in boxes for comps...if presentation is not important...why have them?

Anyonme want to challenge that statement??????????????

Yep...:twisted:

You eat with your NOSE first in BBQ, Popcorn, Bread... coffee too. I have watch deli sales plummet when one of my meats was taken off being sold off the steam table (where people can smell it when they walk in) to being prepared piecemeal by nuking it on order. Plummet! The reason the manager did it... they did it purposely to balance the penetration of my product to theirs. In other words people used to come to have a tuna sandwich then when they smelled the Q when they walked in they changed their mind. By getting rid of the smell of my product people simply ordered more of theirs.

Unless there is a poster on the wall further from the smell... you begin glorifying the dish with your nose before you even see it.

The little diddy "eat with your eyes first" was to get you sold on Garnishing... which was a plot created in the late 90's by the folks that brought you the single bullet, single gunman theory and the Garnish growers of America.

bowhnter
02-23-2009, 12:52 PM
I asked for the same thing last year.....here it is. Oh yeah, I added the Frank Sinatra. :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:



Printed, Thanks, Wayne...this should make things much more clear :biggrin:

barbefunkoramaque
02-23-2009, 12:57 PM
I asked for the same thing last year.....here it is. Oh yeah, I added the Frank Sinatra. :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

The Legends

Salt George Clinton
Sugar Little Richard
Brown Sugar James Brown
Garlic (Specify Powder or Minced) Prince
Onion (Specify Powder or Minced) Rick James
Black Pepper Larry Graham
Red Pepper or Cayenne Bootsy Collins
Paprika Tina Turner
Bell Pepper Archie Bell
Sam Cooke Large Grained “Smokin Stuff”
Honey Taste of Honey
Corn Syrup (Dark only – there is no light) Jackie Wilson
Mustard (Specify Powder or Prepared) Fred Wesley
Worcestershire Sauce Sir Duke
Bacon B. B. King
Ketchup Sly Stone
Chili Powder Carlos Santana
Lemon Juice Chubby Checker
Mayonnaise Michael Jackson
Apple Cider Vinegar Aretha Franklin
Ginger Teena Marie
Butter George Benson
Peach Francine Barker
Richard Pryor Coke
Billy D. Williams Colt 45 or Equivalent
Olive oil – Frank Sinatra (added by thirdeye 2-21-09)

VERBS
To Smoke Smokey Robinson
To Roast Dark Closet and Some Sam
Cooke
Time of Cook Morris Day = Hours
The Time = Minutes
To Boil Mother Popcorn
To Simmer Philup Bailey
To Chill Cold Sweat
To Sautee Flashlight
Honey Golden Color
To Blend Make it Funky
To Baste or Mop Do the Camel Walk
To Marinate Overnight Boogie Night
Spoiled or nasty as in the opposite of Funky (Good) James Taylor
To Rest Hit It and Quit
Close the High Hat Up Put on a Lid
Back off your Mics (Microphones) Lower the Heat



In this video Cornbread (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Y3XBsbwI8&feature=PlayList&p=70A4BAEF4CB51071&index=1) Olive Oil was Funk Legend Jesse Johnson. Jesse Johnson Funk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4pmE9nIeV4)

Extra virgin (rocker) Jesse Johnson (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGyq4oYjWMg)

bowhnter
02-23-2009, 01:05 PM
That list almost needs to be a sticky that gets updated as need be

Bigmista
02-23-2009, 01:05 PM
Don't forget Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis (cinnamon and allspice).

bigabyte
02-23-2009, 01:13 PM
Oops, I may have cleared things up too much:shock: Now everyone's gonna get funky!

bowhnter
02-23-2009, 01:26 PM
Oops, I may have cleared things up too much:shock: Now everyone's gonna get funky!

No no...I just want a decoder map :cool:

JD McGee
02-23-2009, 01:34 PM
You eat with your NOSE first in BBQ, Popcorn, Bread... coffee too. I have watch deli sales plummet when one of my meats was taken off being sold off the steam table (where people can smell it when they walk in) to being prepared piecemeal by nuking it on order. Plummet! The reason the manager did it... they did it purposely to balance the penetration of my product to theirs. In other words people used to come to have a tuna sandwich then when they smelled the Q when they walked in they changed their mind. By getting rid of the smell of my product people simply ordered more of theirs.

Unless there is a poster on the wall further from the smell... you begin glorifying the dish with your nose before you even see it.

The little diddy "eat with your eyes first" was to get you sold on Garnishing... which was a plot created in the late 90's by the folks that brought you the single bullet, single gunman theory and the Garnish growers of America.

:lol::lol::lol:...nice argument Funk...but not ALWAYS the case...again using the double entree analogy...I'm always gonna go home with the pretty girl that I SEE first before getting a whif of her perfume...her ugly girlfriend can fend for herself...:twisted::twisted::twisted: That ain't funk...that's life! :lol:

Dr_KY
02-23-2009, 01:46 PM
I need a trip to Hitsville USA after this thread.

thirdeye
02-23-2009, 02:12 PM
In this video Cornbread (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Y3XBsbwI8&feature=PlayList&p=70A4BAEF4CB51071&index=1) Olive Oil was Funk Legend Jesse Johnson. Jesse Johnson Funk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4pmE9nIeV4)

Extra virgin (rocker) Jesse Johnson (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGyq4oYjWMg)

Heheeee. Noted and recorded....then corrected.

I guess the Chariman Of The Board could have picked up some funk along the way......

Barbarian
02-23-2009, 02:14 PM
Thanks for the dictionary.
I think maybe all this funk needs to be translated into a couple more languages,
country and hard rock. Maybe southern rockabilly would be good to. Maybe there is a computer program out there that will automatically translate the funk into country or funk into rock.

Great info just hard to read.

Ken V
02-23-2009, 02:15 PM
OK, heres a question on George Clinton. Is George Clinton, George Clinton or does the type of George Clinton matter to any degree? I am looking at Kosher George, sea salt George(different grinds) and regular ol noniodized George.
Which type is preferred and why?

Thanks,

Ken(feeling funkier everytime I read this)

Barbarian
02-23-2009, 02:17 PM
Oh I forgot to ask how or where this fits into the dictionary??
In this video Cornbread Olive Oil was Funk Legend Jesse Johnson. Jesse Johnson Funk

Extra virgin (rocker) Jesse Johnson

Sorry but I need the translation.

Mark
02-23-2009, 02:18 PM
Would calcium chloride be "Boy George" ?

Barbarian
02-23-2009, 02:23 PM
And another George Clinton question to go with Ken V's question where does Hawaiian Black Sea Salt fit in the funk?

Also, are red, pink, green and white peppercorns part of Larry Graham or are they not funky enough to be in Q???

Bigmista
02-23-2009, 02:25 PM
Oh I forgot to ask how or where this fits into the dictionary??
In this video Cornbread Olive Oil was Funk Legend Jesse Johnson. Jesse Johnson Funk

Extra virgin (rocker) Jesse Johnson

Sorry but I need the translation.

Jesse Johnson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Johnson_%28musician%29)

bigabyte
02-23-2009, 02:33 PM
I stuffed George Clinton in my water softener today. Hope he doesn't get out!:shock:

Barbarian
02-23-2009, 02:38 PM
Did you see that George Clinton is trying hard to Gone Country along with Sheila E., Micky Dolenz and three others????

So maybe the Funk can go Country to.

Bigmista
02-23-2009, 02:48 PM
And another George Clinton question to go with Ken V's question where does Hawaiian Black Sea Salt fit in the funk?

Also, are red, pink, green and white peppercorns part of Larry Graham or are they not funky enough to be in Q???

According to the recipe in Hit Me Fred Sauce (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGS5WyyZrA4), Larry Graham is a mixture of all of those peppercorns, freshly cracked.

Bentley
02-23-2009, 02:50 PM
24265
Also, when doing this, chuck the injections,



Not untill you can send me a packer brisket with flavor in the middle!

Barbarian
02-23-2009, 03:09 PM
So I tried going to popdaddys website and it is either in Japanese, Chinese or Korean. Don't know which, so whas up wid dat????/

barbefunkoramaque
02-23-2009, 03:16 PM
Thanks for the dictionary.
I think maybe all this funk needs to be translated into a couple more languages,
country and hard rock. Maybe southern rockabilly would be good to. Maybe there is a computer program out there that will automatically translate the funk into country or funk into rock.

Great info just hard to read.

I bit about my strange ways... It was more of a tip off out of respect to the MEMBERS of the brethren than to exclude them.

You see I like to share my funk but don't think it should be given away to anyone on the net without earning it. In essence, if you say, want easy answers, get a cookbook. But if you want a few tips that are useful you will have to bend to my wavelength. You don't dig the waves (Kelly's Heros reference) I am sorry, its the way I roll baby.

But since some of the brethren have jumped on board and shared, y'all help each other out. This can only been seen in the brethren archives once some time passes. So if anyone HAS to try my rub or something they could figure it out. My videos also help out, teach a few things but leave some things out... like when Neil says he uses P...............whoooooah almost had you there huh?

Of course its also in fun too. And the fun is how bent outta shape some people get that profess not to give a ****. Whatever peanut butters their jelly.

You know when I picked up a few things at Kruez market bussing tables long ago and at angelos long ago, I didn't tell them to turn off the Hank Williams (Salt) and George Jones (pepper) music so I could dig what they were letting me in on.

barbefunkoramaque
02-23-2009, 03:25 PM
Not untill you can send me a packer brisket with flavor in the middle!

Hmmm I don't know how to react to this one...

I am saying don't inject because you are trying to learn the affects that copius amounts of salt and pepper have on a packer. Once you have done it then go forth and do what you want.

If I wanted to insult injectors (and I have:wink:) I would do so.

But this technique (German style) is the zenith of a brisket... as far as it can go penetration wise without artificial injections.

Now my dry injection would not count as a liquid injection. But we have talked about that technique before.

That being said, the number one thing people say about this style is.... how do you get the flavor deep in the meat without injecting?

Hell Fire Grill
02-23-2009, 03:34 PM
In the legends would Pink Floyd be Sodium Niterite

barbefunkoramaque
02-23-2009, 03:39 PM
So I tried going to popdaddys website and it is either in Japanese, Chinese or Korean. Don't know which, so whas up wid dat????/

i retired my website when moved... the host videos are still on youtube.com though

Bentley
02-23-2009, 04:10 PM
That being said, the number one thing people say about this style is.... how do you get the flavor deep in the meat without injecting?


My point exactly! Now if a brisket tasted like a rib-eye I would not need to inject it, but as we both know it does not.

After 6 years of competing, and trying every combination of rubs out there, I could not agree with you more on just salt and pepper. I do use a small amout of garlic powder and a very small amount of chile powder!

barbefunkoramaque
02-23-2009, 04:18 PM
My point exactly! Now if a brisket tasted like a rib-eye I would not need to inject it, but as we both know it does not.

After 6 years of competing, and trying every combination of rubs out there, I could not agree with you more on just salt and pepper. I do use a small amout of garlic powder and a very small amount of chile powder!

LOL No... I mean they want to know how I get all that flavor into the meat without injecting.... this means... you can, without an injection.
No, not as much flavor as the injection shortcut, but close. Now my dry injection does the trick though.

6 years is a long time to compete... long time. I think that's how long I competed when I quit in 1993.

I bet your brisket rub is stellar man.... a real signature taste with only two little additions. Less is definitely more at times. Damn your making me hungry with that.

Bentley
02-23-2009, 05:00 PM
6 years is a long time to compete... long time. I think that's how long I competed when I quit in 1993.



Funny you would say that...Burn out is setting in and we are going to judge twice as much as compete this year! Perfect timing, have virtually all the equipment that I have always wanted, so it can now sit!

barbefunkoramaque
02-23-2009, 05:07 PM
At the time... I just couldn't spend a thousand to win a thousand anymore. I went back to college, got in shape (which i AINT NO MO) and ate steamed chicken and rice until about 2000 or so.

Barbarian
02-23-2009, 05:08 PM
So I am watching the Hit Me Fred sauce video. Cannot seem to get on the popdaddy website and so I am writing down the ingredients to be translated into english later. But I don't know how to translate a "coffee cup measure" I don't drink that burnt water so don't know anything about measuring it.

bowhnter
02-23-2009, 05:15 PM
I will guess at a this one...a tablespoon per cup...8 oz, or maybe 6 oz ?

HeSmellsLikeSmoke
02-23-2009, 05:22 PM
Donnie, I don't know if you have said this before on some other thread, but when you were at Kreuz's did you see the salt to pepper ratio in their rub that they use on their brisket?

The bottle that they have on the table that they call their rub was over 95 percent salt as far as I could see. Had a bit of yellow, that i assumed was garlic and some red which was prolly cayenne. But it was coarse salt, first and foremost.

I have often wondered if that is their actual meat rub, or just for the tourists at the table.

Bigmista
02-23-2009, 05:49 PM
So I am watching the Hit Me Fred sauce video. Cannot seem to get on the popdaddy website and so I am writing down the ingredients to be translated into english later. But I don't know how to translate a "coffee cup measure" I don't drink that burnt water so don't know anything about measuring it.

Yeah that one throws me too. It looks like about 1/4 cup though.

Barbarian
02-23-2009, 06:38 PM
Still sifting through the funk on my day off, so what is
Sam Cooke Large Grained Smokin Stuff
and from the Hit Me Fred Sauce video what is Family Stone? He made it very clear on the video to not mix up Family Stone with Sly Stone. Family Stone is not in the dictionary.

Also curious if the writer of the dictionary had a reason to list some of the items with the actual english name first then the funk name and a few with the funk name first then the english name.

Now I just gotta' ask, how is an old Missouri hippy/hillbilly supposed to make funky Q if the funky dictionary does not contain the necessary definitions?

Westexbbq
02-23-2009, 06:44 PM
All very cool,
and just imagine how much fun we could have if Lord Buckley were still with us today?

Bigmista
02-23-2009, 06:49 PM
Still sifting through the funk on my day off, so what is
Sam Cooke Large Grained Smokin Stuff
and from the Hit Me Fred Sauce video what is Family Stone? He made it very clear on the video to not mix up Family Stone with Sly Stone. Family Stone is not in the dictionary.



From the looks of it in the video, I'd say Family stone is tomato paste.

jacob
02-23-2009, 06:51 PM
Excellent read here guys, glad I kept popping in.:cool:

bigabyte
02-23-2009, 07:18 PM
Coffee Cup measure is traditonally in the 4 to 7 oz range, depending on the cup. It is there to throw you. Compare to a standard cup which is 8 oz to figure appropriate size. I thought the meadure in the video looked kinda like a 2 Tbsp measure though.:lol:

Barbarian
02-23-2009, 08:45 PM
So far in my search for what a coffee cup measurement is I have found these;
http://www.vat19.com/dvds/coffee-scoop-n-clip.cfm
this one
http://www.cooking.com/products/shprodde.asp?SKU=187718
and this one
http://www.cooking.com/products/shprodde.asp?SKU=545054

So a coffee cup measurement could be 1 or 1.5 or 2 tablespoons. Sorta messes with trying to follow a reciepe IMHO.

PatioDaddio
02-23-2009, 09:10 PM
Is that the method and ingredients Thirdeye used on his beautiful brisket? Oh yeah forgot music picture reference
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a282/Murphy6/milli_vanilli.gif

Ladies and gentlemen! Put your hands together for... The one, and the only...

Pellet Brisket! :-D

http://www.lostateminor.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/album-cover.jpg

barbefunkoramaque
02-23-2009, 09:35 PM
answers

CCM coffee cup measure in those ranges doesn't make a difference when you are making that quantity. Now if y'all want a laugh I lost my CCM when I moved and had to make some of this stuff and freaked until I realized that its doesn't matter. By the way... its not a cup in any form... helps me measure out the ounces.

I would say follow the major order as thinner liquids break down the spices better.

That being said I hunted through my Funkotroium Boxes and found my Coffee Cup Measure and tested it... its 2 fluid ounces.

Anyway... get the major balances in the family stone and fred westly and bigger stuff then put your signature on it with your favorite rub and just estimate what you see me do.

Smoky stuff is my version of Montreal Seasoning (which depending on cost I just buy or make)

NOW LISTEN!!!! If you want something really special....

This is a great sauce (Hit me Fred) on Pulled pork BUT it can go through a real Mark 9:1-8 if you had your favorite Jackie Wilson, Taste of Honey, Neil.... your's won't coem out color wise but it taste good, pectin or other sweetner. GREAT on ribs. Glorius. But my itself its good for slaw or potato salad (mix more mayo if you want or try it just like it is) and also a good grilling medium on chix.

I will be using it on my top secret video recipe due out soon if neil can keep a secret.

Neil I let you cite the Biblical reference.

barbefunkoramaque
02-23-2009, 09:44 PM
Donnie, I don't know if you have said this before on some other thread, but when you were at Kreuz's did you see the salt to pepper ratio in their rub that they use on their brisket?

The bottle that they have on the table that they call their rub was over 95 percent salt as far as I could see. Had a bit of yellow, that i assumed was garlic and some red which was prolly cayenne. But it was coarse salt, first and foremost.

I have often wondered if that is their actual meat rub, or just for the tourists at the table.

When I was at Kreuz they were at smittys. Salt pepper and red pepper. what they have in the jars on the table does not remind me of what they had then. and then there was nothing on the tables.

Barbarian
02-23-2009, 09:53 PM
My videos also help out, teach a few things but leave some things out... like when Neil says he uses P...............whoooooah almost had you there huh?

Of course its also in fun too. And the fun is how bent outta shape some people get that profess not to give a ****. Whatever peanut butters their jelly.

No problem, I will quit wasting my time and not try to follow your partial recipes. I don't have time or money to guess about this stuff so I will not bother you anymore. I guess if you have fun trying to get brethren bent out of shape that is your choice.

barbefunkoramaque
02-23-2009, 10:01 PM
No problem, I will quit wasting my time and not try to follow your partial recipes. I don't have time or money to guess about this stuff so I will not bother you anymore. I guess if you have fun trying to get brethren bent out of shape that is your choice.

Barb I think we have been through this before. There is an ignore button. I have fun doing anything...its what makes me a happy camper.

Besides... who wants to copy another's work precisely? The fun is getting close to the sauce and then making it your own... That's what I did....

jonboy
02-24-2009, 06:48 AM
I keep clicking on the IS button but nothing happens.
IS it a link to something?
Join the Revolution.
jon

bigabyte
02-24-2009, 07:43 AM
I beleive what Donnie is trying to tell us is that you are supposed to ignore that.

Dale P
02-24-2009, 09:00 AM
Understanding the entire process would take all the fun out of this thread.

Cre-B-Ce
02-24-2009, 08:25 PM
For some reason after reading this thread, I can't get these lyrics outta my head....

If you dont like what you see here
Nobody wants to take you prisoner
So let me make it nice and clear dear
The exit is right there
I dont mean to be rude dude
But youd better change your attitude

I dont like what I see here

Youre all invited to the party
You know you didnt have to come
No rotten apple gonna spoil my fun

If you dont like what you see here
Get the funk out
We wont try to force feed you
Get the funk out

You cant please everbody
But everybody cannot please me
Thats why I do what I want to
So why dont you do, do it to, do it to me, hey
So if you dont like what you see here
You can always leave the country

barbefunkoramaque
02-24-2009, 08:30 PM
For some reason after reading this thread, I can't get these lyrics outta my head....

If you dont like what you see here
Nobody wants to take you prisoner
So let me make it nice and clear dear
The exit is right there
I dont mean to be rude dude
But youd better change your attitude

I dont like what I see here

Youre all invited to the party
You know you didnt have to come
No rotten apple gonna spoil my fun

If you dont like what you see here
Get the funk out
We wont try to force feed you
Get the funk out

You cant please everbody
But everybody cannot please me
Thats why I do what I want to
So why dont you do, do it to, do it to me, hey
So if you dont like what you see here
You can always leave the country

All I see is pornograffiti
All I hear pornograffiti
It's a monster we all have within us
The American dream
I need more money
I need more money
Just a little more money
Just a little more money
Everybody's got a need
Everybody's got to feed
He man woman hater
He man woman hater
He man woman hater
Dancing to the decadence dance

That Extreme Guy used to be able to do like a thousand sit ups!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

More than words..........

JamesTX
02-24-2009, 09:04 PM
Okay, now that the funkless have clicked out of this little lesson because they can't or don't want to understand I will give you the lesson on our friend, Salt. Etc., etc., etc., etc., ......


This has to rank as one of the top 10 best posts on any forum I have ever been to. I am in awe.

And your taste in music rocks the house.

barbefunkoramaque
02-24-2009, 10:17 PM
Gotta add to my post here...

This is Paul's Brisket Rub from his book "Championship BBQ"...not sure if it is the one we used at his Pit Master class last year because it was pre-made and supplied to all participants. But...it has the same ratios and number of spices that he required us to use when building our own rubs. The only difference was that we did not use Worcestershire sauce as a pre-rub marinade.

1/2 cup Worcestershire sauce
1/4 cup dark brown sugar (packed)
1 tablespoon garlic salt
1 tablespoon coarse black pepper
1 tablespoon sweet Hungarian paprika
1 tablespoon chili powder
1 teaspoon celery salt
1/4 teaspoon ground allspice
1/4 teaspoon ground thyme

This is enough rub for a 7-12 lb brisket. It is smoked @ 230-250 degrees indirect for 45-60 minutes per lb.

Funk...if I'm following your drift...you recommend more salt (as a flavor carrier) than anything else. If that is the case how can we achieve the awesome bark shown in Wayne's brisket pic (not knowing his ingredients) without a sugar based rub or mop?


This is the Kirk I remembered,,, Note the Salt Content. If you used Salt and powders you get the same thing if you let it sit. I don't agree with the sugar and as far as rubs I have no problem rubbing (I know why you're not supposed too) when I rub in a coarse blend.

MAKES 3 CUPS
Kansas City chef and "Baron of Barbecue" Paul Kirk, who gave us this recipe, told us that the anatomy of the dry rub consists of a balance of sugar and salt, with paprika added for color, chili powder for flavor, and a touch of mustard "just because." From there, it's up to you.
1 cup sugar
1⁄4 cup seasoned salt, such as Lawry's
1⁄4 cup garlic salt
1⁄4 cup celery salt
1⁄4 cup onion salt
1⁄2 cup paprika
3 tbsp. chili powder
2 tbsp. freshly ground black pepper
1 tbsp. lemon pepper
2 tsp. ground sage
1 tsp. dry mustard
1⁄2 tsp. ground thyme
1⁄2 tsp. cayenne
1. Sift together sugar, seasoned salt, garlic salt, celery salt, onion salt, paprika, chili powder, black pepper, lemon pepper, sage, mustard, thyme, and cayenne into a bowl. Store in a jar. (When using, sprinkle onto, don't rub into, meat.)

leanza
02-24-2009, 11:05 PM
Funk, your my hero.

JamesTX
02-25-2009, 09:31 AM
....I have no problem rubbing (I know why you're not supposed too) when I rub in a coarse blend.


Why shouldn't you rub in a coarse blend?

Bigmista
02-25-2009, 11:23 AM
.

This is a great sauce (Hit me Fred) on Pulled pork BUT it can go through a real Mark 9:1-8...

Neil I let you cite the Biblical reference.

Mark 9:1-8 talks about The Transfiguration.

Biblegateway.com Mod

barbefunkoramaque
02-25-2009, 03:05 PM
Why shouldn't you rub in a coarse blend?

I was saying that in the case of some rubs which use finer grade materials (esp salts like onion salt, garlic salt, celery salt) they tend to clog the pores.

However, with large grained salts and peppers (which are abbrasive enough to wear through my gloves when I use them) don't really clog pores as much.

Finally, some say you don't want pores to be clogged because durung the smoking process the meat hits times when they sweat and times when they draw, thus... they suck in the flavor... if the pores are clogged it will stop this.

this is especially evident in pork ribs they say.

Bentley
02-25-2009, 04:41 PM
I did not know there were pores on muscle.

barbefunkoramaque
02-25-2009, 10:09 PM
I did not know there were pores on muscle.

well... like I said... "they" say it. Now we are not talking about Pores as in skin pores but pores as in porus. Capillaries, fissures between muscles, broken cell walls if it was frozen...stuff like that.

I really don't put much faith in that theory anyway... most people make far more critical errors in BBQ other than rubbing or not.

BobBrisket
02-25-2009, 10:16 PM
:roll:..................................Just me, but there is NO one REAL way to anything. As was said, that's the fun about all this..........taking your own path, maybe based on someone else's directions,"They", to get where you want to go. As long as you get there. I'll stick to my own route. But that's just me.
Guess I'm just not funky.

Bentley
02-25-2009, 10:59 PM
well... like I said... "they" say it. Now we are not talking about Pores as in skin pores but pores as in porus. Capillaries, fissures between muscles, broken cell walls if it was frozen...stuff like that.

I really don't put much faith in that theory anyway... most people make far more critical errors in BBQ other than rubbing or not.


I see, said the blind man to his deaf dog!

JamesTX
02-26-2009, 09:00 AM
....broken cell walls if it was frozen...

Never thought about that. Do you think you get better tenderness or flavor penetration if you pre-freeze the meat before cooking?

bigabyte
02-26-2009, 09:01 AM
Never thought about that. Do you think you better tenderness of flavor penetration if you pre-freeze the meat before cooking?
Yes on the tenderness part. Not sure on the penetration. You need complete cells for osmosis to take place properly. If the cell is destroyed, there is nothing for osmosis to transport through. However, this does not necessarily preclude the possibility of flavor transport either.

JD McGee
02-26-2009, 09:59 AM
I picked up a 5lb choice flat yesterday from Costco...gonna see what this no-sugar brisket rub thread is all about this Sunday! :-P

bigabyte
02-26-2009, 10:09 AM
Cool, can't wait to hear your results!:cool:

HeSmellsLikeSmoke
02-26-2009, 10:13 AM
I picked up a 5lb choice flat yesterday from Costco...gonna see what this no-sugar brisket rub thread is all about this Sunday! :-P

Ok, if you are gonna do it right. Do the first one with only salt and pepper.:biggrin:

JD McGee
02-26-2009, 10:25 AM
Ok, if you are gonna do it right. Do the first one with only salt and pepper.:biggrin:

I'm trying thirdeye's version...it's a few posts back. :-P

barbefunkoramaque
02-26-2009, 10:31 AM
:roll:..................................Just me, but there is NO one REAL way to anything. As was said, that's the fun about all this..........taking your own path, maybe based on someone else's directions,"They", to get where you want to go. As long as you get there. I'll stick to my own route. But that's just me.
Guess I'm just not funky.

Typical response from this guy. What point are you making that you haven't made before. When I say "Only for the Funky" please take it as your que to stay away. For your own time. You have mentioned time and time again that I am not your cup of tea... what's the point? I can dig it... why can't you?

For instance Bob, when I see your threads or posts on Tex Mex I see that you are saying that this is your expression... I don't critique based on your preference Tex Mex over Mexican. I don't preach I Mex. I don't say Tex Mex is more like Germex. I just read your stuff, enjoy it for it being about your style and that's it.

This goes for people like Barbarian and that guy that has the little BBQ supply company in Michigan? Just chill guys, have a beer or something. I try and warn you that you won't like my Funk... so stay ignore me... Its been more than a year now... neither of us is gonna change. Ignore me man and don't waste the energy. If you guys hate a certain resturant do you visit it over and over again?

I appreciate the good (funky) people that understand that this was a discourse on salt and its role and I appreciate their input. Would I have gotten a better smoke ring after 12 years of BBQing hot and fast if I simply told Thirdeye when he was preaching that there was OTHER WAYS or that I'll just keep doing what it do? No... I listened, knocked my temp down for an hour or too and have a better product I think.

Other topics arose in this thread. Since this was my thread and don't mind hijacking (because its fun) I thought I'd pick up some information here and there. It's all for the good of BBQ.

Several people have enough brains to also know when I am kidding or being silly (which is most of the time) about preaching tradition (as long as you have a stoker and web based temp control or BBQ Guru backup) or about freezing anyone who thinks differently in liquid nitrogen. Lets make it clear to those that just don't get it... my silly rants about style and technique and inflexibility are parodies of people that rant about ONE style ONE technique and are inflexible.

Still there are the Little Nellies that got to get their piece in but offer nothing in the DISCUSSION. And I understand you may not want to offer commentary because you can't understand what I am saying. I know that in advance.

If I were a true BBQ Brisket TRADITIONALIST I would SIMMER my brisket first before grilling it over a pit a la Chuckwagon Style.

If I were a true Pork BBQ traditionalist I would Boil first (Ribs too).

This is what is so silly about all the talk about tradition... thanks in advance to those that get the joke.

God Bless
I am not gonna change my style, I am not gonna leave this joint so find that ignore button and click it. Its okay.... I will be fine. You will be too.

barbefunkoramaque
02-26-2009, 10:42 AM
I also sanction our resident scientist BIGABYTE to write a thread on basic experiment rules. In essence, why when your testing one technique, we don't add other techniques then try and deduce which technique did what. He is brilliant in his methods.

BobBrisket
02-26-2009, 11:12 AM
:lol:Point made, point taken. I can respect that. But just like with anything else, doesn't mean we all need to agree with everyone on everything. As you said, there is always the option to ignore.

Sincerely,

This Guy.

Barbarian
02-26-2009, 05:51 PM
barbefunkoramaque in post #116 said;
I appreciate the good (funky) people that understand that this was a discourse on salt and its role and I appreciate their input. Would I have gotten a better smoke ring after 12 years of BBQing hot and fast if I simply told Thirdeye when he was preaching that there was OTHER WAYS or that I'll just keep doing what it do? No... I listened, knocked my temp down for an hour or too and have a better product I think.

I was trying to learn more about Q from this thread and your discourse on salt. My problem is I did not understand your terminology and when I ask what things meant and measurements did not get IMHO reasonable answers. I tried to listen but got no help, I did not know at the time that I was supposed to already know everything funky. I did not know that your videos only contain partial how-to do things. I guess you don't want input or discussions with people that are not IYO funky. And you seem to not want them to learn to be funky.


Other topics arose in this thread. Since this was my thread and don't mind hijacking (because its fun) I thought I'd pick up some information here and there. It's all for the good of BBQ.

I thought I might pick up some info also.


Several people have enough brains to also know when I am kidding or being silly (which is most of the time) about preaching tradition (as long as you have a stoker and web based temp control or BBQ Guru backup) or about freezing anyone who thinks differently in liquid nitrogen. Lets make it clear to those that just don't get it... my silly rants about style and technique and inflexibility are parodies of people that rant about ONE style ONE technique and are inflexible.

See now you get insulting, IMHO. You probably think that comment is funny but is it really? Your telling me I am stupid because I don't see when you are kidding and when you are not. Brains don't have anything to do with knowing whether or not you are kidding. I don't recall ranting about ONE style or being inflexible. I am just a backyard Q guy trying to learn how to cook and what tastes good.


Still there are the Little Nellies that got to get their piece in but offer nothing in the DISCUSSION. And I understand you may not want to offer commentary because you can't understand what I am saying. I know that in advance.
And how is one supposed to understand what your saying if you just rag on them???? Yes I have found the ITI button on the tool bar, but just have not used it yet. Let's see is that funny or not????

Barbarian
02-26-2009, 05:51 PM
Oh and I apologize if my previous post hijacked your thread.

Meat Burner
02-26-2009, 06:08 PM
This thread is making me sweat from the forehead. That's an ugly thought! Back to my room now.

barbefunkoramaque
02-26-2009, 08:33 PM
Dear Barbarian

I am sorry. You have a valid point about me using the word brains... didn't mean to insult. That's why I use the word Funky... people generally are okay with not being funky. Some people try to be funky. Oh hell... I am sorry. That's all. Your okay. From the look of your avatar I take it you don't need any help with brisket. Looks good man.

I am ashamed in that the Funk was soposed to be a power of inclusiveness to anyone who was willing to get down and I have used it as a power to exclude.. which is not funky.

Bentley
02-26-2009, 09:21 PM
From the look of your avatar I take it you don't need any help with brisket.

Doh! Thought it was a butt!

barbefunkoramaque
02-26-2009, 09:31 PM
Doh!

leanza
02-26-2009, 09:47 PM
Yeeehaaaa! I love all you guys! .... Pass me another beer please.

MilitantSquatter
02-26-2009, 09:55 PM
Time Out : Guys... This is a great thread (in a very unique, funky kinda way)... let's not kill it's value with negativity

If it's not your thing, move on to other threads... otherwise we might need to call Popdaddy on the bagphone. :biggrin:


OK... Funk.. please continue.

BBQchef33
02-26-2009, 10:16 PM
YEAH.. What vinny said. !!! This thread made me go out today and get a brisket to try with just S&P.. and maybe the butt glitter. Also, while cooking today for the family, I also found myself thing about some points made and considering changes in some of my techniques based on layering, which I used to do, and then stopped.

it is an excellent thread that reminded me to NOT get stuck in myt ways.. Since i started competing 5 years ago, i have been so stuck on perfecting the one way I do things that i have forgotten to think outside of the box. Thats how I see this thread. As a reminder that there is NO ONE WAY...

anyway.. lets just take a breath.. appreciate things for what they are, while understanding/accepting/ignoring the 'uniquenesss'(a.k.a funk) thats is running around in this thread..


Can someone point me to the ingriedent tranlslator that was posted a while back regarding James Brown and Charlie Brown, sleeping with James Dean or Paula Dean. I gotta make some butt glitter.


did I really just say all that? WTF?

Fastball
02-26-2009, 11:07 PM
Hmmm....very interesting thread here. great read.

Although I'm a big George Clinton fan (but I wish he hadn't gone on that "gone country" show), I don't consider myself funky. I'm more of a headbanger type. But I will say that most of the briskets I do for me and my family are nothing but S&P briskets, and I never wrap (I don't believe in wrapping big cuts unless I'm holding....but then it's off the heat). Most of the briskets I do for others, I use Montreal steak seasoning. And I never inject. I want to taste the beef.

Sometimes people try to get to fancy. It's just a big hunk of meat ya know.

Cre-B-Ce
02-27-2009, 07:50 AM
Can someone point me to the ingriedent tranlslator that was posted a while back regarding James Brown and Charlie Brown, sleeping with James Dean or Paula Dean. I gotta make some butt glitter.


The easiest place to find it is to just click on Donnie's user name and view public profile. It's all right there. It's also back close to the beginning of this thread.

barbefunkoramaque
02-27-2009, 09:49 AM
A moment about rubs that you work hard on and stuff. The point of the thri-layer rub was that I loved my rub (butt glitter). The story behind that was I kept dialing down the slat for two reasons. First because I was naturally reducing the salt ratio by adding other things, Paprika, Celery Seed, Cumin and Chili Powder, Oinion Powder and stuff.... the SECOND was I wanted to start CROSS-UTILIZING the rub on other stuff... so naturally the salt gets dialed down. I was doing it becuase I had catering jobs and needed ONE rub for everything from the spice in my pickled Onions, which went in my potato salad and collard and a table rub (which needed less salt) and on Ribs and shoulder and my armadillo eggs and fatties. Each one of those needs different levels of salt and sugar.

So in regards to your rub that YOU worked your ass off to get... if your trying to get that FLAVOR of your rub into your meat... the secret is salt. salt is the transporter. I thitnk injections are cool, and arguably you may not be able to get the same level of flavor INTO the meat with rub alone (but thats what our fore-fathers tried to do from Kreuz Market to Walter Jetton (simmered the flavor in before pitting the meat). BUT... we all know that rub, pepper, whatever your signature is, smoke, dried meat blood and juices, fat, fat smoke all being pulled into the center of the meat is a different FLAVOR althogether than what you mix in a bowl and inject from the center outward and around.

Hmmm.... Illegal as hell... but that makes me think.... what would your----

SOUR DOUGH (That's Dough) BRISKET INJECTION CONTENT DELETED VIA BAG PHONE BY POPDADDY DUE TO IT BEING TOO FUNKY....

THIS MAY BE RELEASED AT ANOTHER TIME IN OUR NEXT SEGMENT...

Pitmaster "T" dry plateau Injection

Barbarian
02-27-2009, 07:06 PM
Donnie, thanks for the reply. I just had trouble thinking that you were trying to exclude people that like/love Q. It seemed odd. By the way Bentley is right my avatar is a butt and I could always use help on brisket, lol.

So I am sorry we got off on the wrong foot and I say let's just drink a virtual beer and start all over.

I really do want to try the Hit Me Fred sauce and gotta figure out what a coffee cup measure is. I am sorry you cannot do a little conversion with tablespoons due to your losing your CCM.

Actually I think I will just drink a bit of Makers Mark with two cubes instead of the beer.

bigabyte
02-27-2009, 07:52 PM
SOUR DOUGH (That's Dough) BRISKET INJECTION CONTENT DELETED VIA BAG PHONE BY POPDADDY DUE TO IT BEING TOO FUNKY....

Too late. I heard you laying that one down brother! I had that funk running through my head before, but it took you to arrange it properly. I'll keep it quiet though.

Funk on. I don't speak funk, or jive, but I did see Airplane. I can speak that kinda jive.

JD McGee
02-27-2009, 09:15 PM
Time Out : Guys... This is a great thread (in a very unique, funky kinda way)... let's not kill it's value with negativity

If it's not your thing, move on to other threads... otherwise we might need to call Popdaddy on the bagphone. :biggrin:


OK... Funk.. please continue.

YEAH.. What vinny said. !!! This thread made me go out today and get a brisket to try with just S&P.. and maybe the butt glitter. Also, while cooking today for the family, I also found myself thing about some points made and considering changes in some of my techniques based on layering, which I used to do, and then stopped.

it is an excellent thread that reminded me to NOT get stuck in myt ways.. Since i started competing 5 years ago, i have been so stuck on perfecting the one way I do things that i have forgotten to think outside of the box. Thats how I see this thread. As a reminder that there is NO ONE WAY...

anyway.. lets just take a breath.. appreciate things for what they are, while understanding/accepting/ignoring the 'uniquenesss'(a.k.a funk) thats is running around in this thread..


Can someone point me to the ingriedent tranlslator that was posted a while back regarding James Brown and Charlie Brown, sleeping with James Dean or Paula Dean. I gotta make some butt glitter.


did I really just say all that? WTF?

Ditto...:-P

barbefunkoramaque
02-27-2009, 10:05 PM
Oh MY CCM was 2 T

Donnie, thanks for the reply. I just had trouble thinking that you were trying to exclude people that like/love Q. It seemed odd. By the way Bentley is right my avatar is a butt and I could always use help on brisket, lol.

So I am sorry we got off on the wrong foot and I say let's just drink a virtual beer and start all over.

I really do want to try the Hit Me Fred sauce and gotta figure out what a coffee cup measure is. I am sorry you cannot do a little conversion with tablespoons due to your losing your CCM.

Actually I think I will just drink a bit of Makers Mark with two cubes instead of the beer.

Rick's Tropical Delight
02-27-2009, 10:08 PM
you guys are makin me feel fuzzy inside

bigabyte
02-27-2009, 10:17 PM
Kumbaya my lord...kumba...

Huh? Oh, sorry.

barbefunkoramaque
02-27-2009, 10:20 PM
you guys are makin me feel fuzzy inside

ur avatar makes me what to remake THE ABOMINABLE DR PHIBES....

Rick's Tropical Delight
02-27-2009, 10:25 PM
what a great flick! you know i have an original vincent price self portrait on the wall, right 8-)

Bentley
02-27-2009, 10:54 PM
Bentley is right my avatar is a butt


Yeah...just call me Mr. BBQ! 8) HeHeHe

Barbarian
02-27-2009, 11:36 PM
So how does one say thanks in "funk"???
Cheers mate.

bigabyte
02-27-2009, 11:43 PM
I think its...

Sheeiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiii

smokindorf
02-28-2009, 07:10 AM
I asked for the same thing last year.....here it is. Oh yeah, I added the Frank Sinatra. :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

The Legends

Salt George Clinton
Sugar Little Richard
Brown Sugar James Brown
Garlic (Specify Powder or Minced) Prince
Onion (Specify Powder or Minced) Rick James
Black Pepper Larry Graham
Red Pepper or Cayenne Bootsy Collins
Paprika Tina Turner
Bell Pepper Archie Bell
Sam Cooke Large Grained Smokin Stuff
Honey Taste of Honey
Corn Syrup (Dark only there is no light) Jackie Wilson
Mustard (Specify Powder or Prepared) Fred Wesley
Worcestershire Sauce Sir Duke
Bacon B. B. King
Ketchup Sly Stone
Chili Powder Carlos Santana
Lemon Juice Chubby Checker
Mayonnaise Michael Jackson
Apple Cider Vinegar Aretha Franklin
Ginger Teena Marie
Butter George Benson
Peach Francine Barker
Richard Pryor Coke


That nearly made me lose a mouthful of mornin' joe:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:. John

barbefunkoramaque
02-28-2009, 10:20 AM
Richard Pryor is in my Beale Street Red and Wett at 1:13 into it. You will notice at first I say water - Billy Ocean... but these days I just add straight Richard Pryor... although now that I am in Texas, and it is red and wett sauce... I add something just from this area called..... Big Red.... just havn't come up with a Funk Figure for it.

Dr_KY
02-28-2009, 10:54 AM
OK I have been redading this threadand decided to visit my butcher an hour ago. As expected he only had one small rolled and frozen brisket so I snapped it up for ten snaps bones with some beef ribs. I'm going to let it thaw, unroll it and see if I can take some of your advice and make it hump a bit.

bigabyte
02-28-2009, 11:08 AM
OK I have been redading this threadand decided to visit my butcher an hour ago. As expected he only had one small rolled and frozen brisket so I snapped it up for ten snaps bones with some beef ribs. I'm going to let it thaw, unroll it and see if I can take some of your advice and make it hump a bit.
You're going to hump a cold rolled brisket?:confused::shock::eek:

Bob S
02-28-2009, 11:25 AM
I've been following this thread and decided to do a brisket today. Picked up a 13 pound angus brisky from Restaurant Depot yesterday and gave it a three layer rub. Put it in the pit at 8 this morning. It's 12:30m now and I haven't peeked at it, but it smells farking fantastic. We'll see...

Dr_KY
02-28-2009, 01:01 PM
You're going to hump a cold rolled brisket?:confused::shock::eek:

That was my life story before I got married.

barbefunkoramaque
02-28-2009, 02:18 PM
OK I have been redading this threadand decided to visit my butcher an hour ago. As expected he only had one small rolled and frozen brisket so I snapped it up for ten snaps bones with some beef ribs. I'm going to let it thaw, unroll it and see if I can take some of your advice and make it hump a bit.

THIS guy knows the funk! Remember you can't capture the boogie unless you attack from the back.

barbefunkoramaque
02-28-2009, 02:19 PM
OK I have been redading this threadand decided to visit my butcher an hour ago. As expected he only had one small rolled and frozen brisket so I snapped it up for ten snaps bones with some beef ribs. I'm going to let it thaw, unroll it and see if I can take some of your advice and make it hump a bit.


You understand the funk man!!! Yo but how can you capture the boogie unless you attack from the back!

Aluminum Foil Alzheimer's Mod

Dr_KY
02-28-2009, 04:29 PM
Hittin` it two times has always been good to me baby now it time to elevate to the three bounce boogie.

thirdeye
02-28-2009, 05:27 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/thirdeye2/Misc/magicdick2.jpg


Okay, that's it. I'm going for the big hair. I doubt I can pull off the Sly Stone look, but maybe Whammer Jammer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WwB4bLwbWE). :biggrin: Last time I saw MD was in St. Louis in '92, maybe he's grey now.....


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/thirdeye2/Misc/magicdick.jpg

Bigmista
02-28-2009, 05:50 PM
Richard Pryor is in my Beale Street Red and Wett at 1:13 into it. You will notice at first I say water - Billy Ocean... but these days I just add straight Richard Pryor... although now that I am in Texas, and it is red and wett sauce... I add something just from this area called..... Big Red.... just havn't come up with a Funk Figure for it.

I just finished a Big Red. Got em in Cali. Nothing like a red soda water w/bbq!

How about Millie Jackson for Big Red? Kinda harsh and hard to swallow until you get used to it.

http://www.virginmedia.com/microsites/music/slideshow/worstalbumcovers/img_5.jpg

thirdeye
02-28-2009, 06:03 PM
I just finished a Big Red. Got em in Cali. Nothing like a red soda water w/bbq!

How about Millie Jackson for Big Red? Kinda harsh and hard to swallow until you get used to it.




Heheee. Soda water, that's what we called all of 'em when I was a little boy in Texas. Big Red, RC, Dr. Pepper, all the Fanta drinks, Cream Soda and an orange one called Nesbitts.

Later on, everybody called everything a Coke, as in "Y'all want a Coke"....."Yeah"...."What kind?"

BBQchef33
03-01-2009, 08:32 PM
just to throw in a status report..

one brisket this week to return to the simple basics.

Layer of kosher salt.
thin layers each of garlic, onion, celery salt.
Layer of black pepper.
no sauce, no injections, and a great brisket that tasted like brisket, not candy.

HeSmellsLikeSmoke
03-01-2009, 08:35 PM
just to throw in a status report..

one brisket this week to return to the simple basics.

Layer of kosher salt.
thin layers each of garlic, onion, celery salt.
Layer of black pepper.
no sauce, no injections, and a great brisket that tasted like brisket, not candy.

Curious. Would you turn in that brisket for a competition?

BBQchef33
03-01-2009, 08:55 PM
that was the topic at tonights dinner. I was pressing the issue as to how this would do in comps. My wife being the harshest critic, has been 100% accurate when she chooses which entry to turn. She gave it a 9,9. In the past 2 years EVERY time she said "USE THAT ONE", it has won. We did not rate appearance. keep in mind, it was also a reheat.

So to answer your quetions.. absolutly.. But i dont think the intent of this thred is to produce competition quality.. What I took out of this thread, is that sometimes basics is better and after years of tweaking, I have been overthinking/overestimating my product.

that being said, IMO, It WAS a competition quality brisket flavor wise. My son gave it an 8, my wife and daughter two 9's. I would go with 8 in taste and 9 in T&T. But i did NOT dress it and I think a minute in the au-jus, or some contest TLC, would give it the enhancment it needed for me to go to a 9. Last night, while eating it at 3AM, and unable to stop, i think it would have been perfect.

it was 3AM though. :)

thirdeye
03-01-2009, 09:04 PM
just to throw in a status report..

one brisket this week to return to the simple basics.

Layer of kosher salt.
thin layers each of garlic, onion, celery salt.
Layer of black pepper.
no sauce, no injections, and a great brisket that tasted like brisket, not candy.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/thirdeye2/Barbecue%209/DSC06608JPGathrowdown.jpg


Do me a favor will you? The next time you have dogs (beef dogs), and they can be on the pit or just pan fried ones, mix up equal parts of garlic powder, onion powder and celery salt. Add a few pinches to the dogs as they cook.....Then let me know what you think.

bigabyte
03-01-2009, 09:12 PM
So thirdeye...when is your book coming out? I want one.

thirdeye
03-01-2009, 09:19 PM
So thirdeye...when is your book coming out? I want one.

Well, so far I have the Introduction, Acknowledgements and Section Names sketched in. It's a work in progress. :biggrin:

barbefunkoramaque
03-01-2009, 10:57 PM
I have ranted, bitched and moaned about how I felt brisket had gotten away from itself in competitions as more and more competitions started. I have receive some conmsternation due to my style and methods of getting it across.

Well I will say this.... this simple style.... this old school style that was a throw back to the days when only texans did briskets in competitions (or the neighboring states) well....

NO I HAVE TO GET FUNKY AGAIN...

I told Bigmista this once a while ago. Its 1982 and the Funky Sound was high in Hornz... you know... seawind horns with Micheal Jackson and the Off the Wall Album, Earth Wind and Fire, all them cats... along comes PRINCE... all the sounds of hornz are replaced by SYNTHS.... he made that sound and Jimmy Jam, Terry Lewis, Janet Jackson all copied that sound....People ate 1999 Album era up. When he was recording When Doves Cry Agents of Warner Brother's said... you got to have a strong bassline in Black Radio. He NIXED the bass in the entire song......... BAMN Platinum!

Then when that got tired he switched to live hornz.... Sexy MF, Willing and Able, Samples even in Gett Off were hornz.

fast forward... today... all we get is prepackaged pop of people that can't even sang and hip hop with a techno sound (stealing from Prince's old licks)

Along comes Prince with a new Band, Horns and all, once again as funky but short of synths. 2004 he had the biggest grossing tour that year, even beat out Madona at around 95 million. In 2008 he played 21 Nights in London's O2 Arena, selling out 20,000 tickets each night in the same damn town. Best selling tour with NO RADIO HITS making the entire Recording Industry Irrelevant in one full swoop.

And if you think my logic only applies to the funk... what do you think Garth Brooks is gonna do when he is good and ready?

So... back to BBQ. Judges do get tired of tasting the same thing over and over, EVEN IF ITS PERFECT LOLOLOLOL, but now that so much about the brisket has been OVERTWEAKED for them.... the old basic Funk, that James Brown Vibe, Ray Charles, Jackie Wilson will seem like its pushing the envelope.


that was the topic at tonights dinner. I was pressing the issue as to how this would do in comps. My wife being the harshest critic, has been 100% accurate when she chooses which entry to turn. She gave it a 9,9. In the past 2 years EVERY time she said "USE THAT ONE", it has won. We did not rate appearance. keep in mind, it was also a reheat.

So to answer your quetions.. absolutly.. But i dont think the intent of this thred is to produce competition quality.. What I took out of this thread, is that sometimes basics is better and after years of tweaking, I have been overthinking/overestimating my product.

that being said, IMO, It WAS a competition quality brisket flavor wise. My son gave it an 8, my wife and daughter two 9's. I would go with 8 in taste and 9 in T&T. But i did NOT dress it and I think a minute in the au-jus, or some contest TLC, would give it the enhancment it needed for me to go to a 9. Last night, while eating it at 3AM, and unable to stop, i think it would have been perfect. It was 3AM though. :)

Plowboy
03-01-2009, 11:39 PM
I have ranted, bitched and moaned about how I felt brisket had gotten away from itself in competitions as more and more competitions started. I have receive some conmsternation due to my style and methods of getting it across.

Well I will say this.... this simple style.... this old school style that was a throw back to the days when only texans did briskets in competitions (or the neighboring states) well....

NO I HAVE TO GET FUNKY AGAIN...

I told Bigmista this once a while ago. Its 1982 and the Funky Sound was high in Hornz... you know... seawind horns with Micheal Jackson and the Off the Wall Album, Earth Wind and Fire, all them cats... along comes PRINCE... all the sounds of hornz are replaced by SYNTHS.... he made that sound and Jimmy Jam, Terry Lewis, Janet Jackson all copied that sound....People ate 1999 Album era up. When he was recording When Doves Cry Agents of Warner Brother's said... you got to have a strong bassline in Black Radio. He NIXED the bass in the entire song......... BAMN Platinum!

Then when that got tired he switched to live hornz.... Sexy MF, Willing and Able, Samples even in Gett Off were hornz.

fast forward... today... all we get is prepackaged pop of people that can't even sang and hip hop with a techno sound (stealing from Prince's old licks)

Along comes Prince with a new Band, Horns and all, once again as funky but short of synths. 2004 he had the biggest grossing tour that year, even beat out Madona at around 95 million. In 2008 he played 21 Nights in London's O2 Arena, selling out 20,000 tickets each night in the same damn town. Best selling tour with NO RADIO HITS making the entire Recording Industry Irrelevant in one full swoop.

And if you think my logic only applies to the funk... what do you think Garth Brooks is gonna do when he is good and ready?

So... back to BBQ. Judges do get tired of tasting the same thing over and over, EVEN IF ITS PERFECT LOLOLOLOL, but now that so much about the brisket has been OVERTWEAKED for them.... the old basic Funk, that James Brown Vibe, Ray Charles, Jackie Wilson will seem like its pushing the envelope.


What I take away from this is that competition BBQ is schizophrenic.

Here goes... BBQ has an initial accepted, conservative definition. The envelope is then pushed by some who refuse to be defined by convention (Prince), which is received with great acceptance, except for the purists (Industry).

Here's where I get confused...Does the new guard (Prince) become the old guard (Prince 2.0) by going back to the original convention once proving that the new convention worked? Or once the envelope bursts because of unskilled cooks seeking glory instead of purity (Prince Thieves) polluting the air with continual over tweaking, the purist (Ray Charles) is back in vogue? Or is it both. I was kind of lost on the innovation of Prince and then the stripping away all of the new innovations to take it back.

If either are true, then the only relevant standard in BBQ is what tickles the tongue "Right Now". If the old school "sound" is what is hip, then that is what you roll with. When that sound becomes passe, then you better start innovating (tweaking). At some point the tweaking also becomes passe and what was old is now new again.

Looking back through the history of KCBS comp BBQ (the only history I'm really versed in) there are many signs o the times (Did you see what I did there?) that had their day, but were more a flash in the pan.

Here's what I think... for what it is worth. Good is good. Complex and simple can both be good and work at a competition. You catch the timing right with either direction and you could walk away a hero. It is like an artist who was either ahead of their time... or behind. A strong foundation of your craft is key whether you are a pitmaster or a funkmaster. I'll be doing a S&P brisket soon to exercise my skills and bring it back.

Plowboy
03-01-2009, 11:42 PM
Another thought in reflecting on your metaphor is that tweaking has only destroyed BBQ and Music by those who don't understand where the roots are and where they are taking their art. The evil is not the act of tweaking itself, but in its wreck less use.

BBQchef33
03-01-2009, 11:53 PM
Another thought in reflecting on your metaphor is that tweaking has only destroyed BBQ and Music by those who don't understand where the roots are and where they are taking their art. The evil is not the act of tweaking itself, but in its wreck less use.

and that, I believe is where I was heading. :frown:

barbefunkoramaque
03-02-2009, 11:53 AM
Seriously, no fooling. Probably the best essay I have read on this in quite a while. I wish I had room for this first sentence in my signature. Brilliant what you took away from this. Its both one and both. Like Miles David said about Prince can be applied to BBQ.... he is neither girl or boy, but both Bytch and Pimp rolled up into one. That's why I named James Brown and Little Richard as Brown and White Sugar repectively.

Plowboy, genius. Truly and intellectual angle.


What I take away from this is that competition BBQ is schizophrenic.

Here goes... BBQ has an initial accepted, conservative definition. The envelope is then pushed by some who refuse to be defined by convention (Prince), which is received with great acceptance, except for the purists (Industry).

Here's where I get confused...Does the new guard (Prince) become the old guard (Prince 2.0) by going back to the original convention once proving that the new convention worked? Or once the envelope bursts because of unskilled cooks seeking glory instead of purity (Prince Thieves) polluting the air with continual over tweaking, the purist (Ray Charles) is back in vogue? Or is it both. I was kind of lost on the innovation of Prince and then the stripping away all of the new innovations to take it back.

If either are true, then the only relevant standard in BBQ is what tickles the tongue "Right Now". If the old school "sound" is what is hip, then that is what you roll with. When that sound becomes passe, then you better start innovating (tweaking). At some point the tweaking also becomes passe and what was old is now new again.

Looking back through the history of KCBS comp BBQ (the only history I'm really versed in) there are many signs o the times (Did you see what I did there?) that had their day, but were more a flash in the pan.

Here's what I think... for what it is worth. Good is good. Complex and simple can both be good and work at a competition. You catch the timing right with either direction and you could walk away a hero. It is like an artist who was either ahead of their time... or behind. A strong foundation of your craft is key whether you are a pitmaster or a funkmaster. I'll be doing a S&P brisket soon to exercise my skills and bring it back.

barbefunkoramaque
03-02-2009, 11:59 AM
Exactly. A Mistake all of us have made and might make. I left a highly successful BBQ competition team when I moved from Texas long ago to Tennesee. In the early 90's I was lost... no competitions even had Brisket round here. But I had a background in Kreuz, Angelos, even Walter Jetton Family. But what did I do... in my zeal to try and make my own path I ended up lost. I am about to cook 30 Briskets for an organization. It is STILL hard to forgo my Butt Glitter Sprinkle for ego's sake. But every time I reduce the complexity and stick within that salt and pepper range (plus I am hot and fast) everyone thinks I have done something special. And really I haven't... or have I?

So in essence... even those that understand the Funk, or George Jones can end up lost by tweaking too much.

Another thought in reflecting on your metaphor is that tweaking has only destroyed BBQ and Music by those who don't understand where the roots are and where they are taking their art. The evil is not the act of tweaking itself, but in its wreck less use.

Dr_KY
03-02-2009, 12:02 PM
Tomorrow I'm slammin down the brisket so I need to start this riff at the top again.

Plowboy
03-02-2009, 01:04 PM
Plowboy, genius. Truly and intellectual angle.

I'm just amazed I understood what the hell you were talking about. :eek: Once I did, it was the food science theory that really got me thinking about how I treat brisket. At first I was like, "WTF is this?". But seriously... thanks for the thread.

Barbarian
03-02-2009, 04:43 PM
Good stuff guys. I even understood most of the original post and then all of it when Plowboy wrote his. Even as just a backyard guy with buddies that think my Q is great I still miss the basic stuff I grew up with in KC but I did not know I was missin' it at all. Now I gotta get a briskie and give the basic funk a try.

jocosa
03-02-2009, 06:31 PM
Me thinks the basic funk is how I want to do my first ever brisky... gots to go grocery shopping.

JD McGee
03-02-2009, 06:50 PM
Best flat I ever did...thanks Funk! :-P

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x206/johnrhana/Sunday%20Smokes/IMG_6762.jpg

HoDeDo
03-02-2009, 06:54 PM
My problem is I click on a link, and then I have to click through to 10 or 12 others to get some great funk/soul rollin....then by the time I am done listening, well, the brisket is out for that day ;)

But great thread, it is all about the funk. So I suggest you just feel the funk, and your brisket will too...Feel the Funk (http://pop.youtube.com/watch?v=jXA5koWaJzY)

or...Ah get born, keep warm. Short pants, romance, learn to dance. Get dressed, get blessed
Try to be a success Please her, please him, buy gifts - Don't steal, don't lift
Twenty years of schoolin' And they put you on the day shift
Look out kid They keep it all hid
Better jump down a manhole Light yourself a candle
Don't wear sandals Try to avoid the scandals

Plowboy
03-02-2009, 07:13 PM
Next up, Grand Master Funk will cast vision of the perfect pork shoulder using the rise and fall of Russian civilization.

Weiser
03-02-2009, 07:30 PM
A ton of great advice and insight contained in this thread.
Looking forward to the Pork Butt/Russian thing.

Weiser

BBQchef33
03-02-2009, 08:42 PM
Roadmapped!

Bigmista
03-02-2009, 09:28 PM
I learned the tri-level rub from Funkmaster South. I made a tweak of necessity (what I had available) and now I am making some of the best brisket I have ever done.

(And thanks to tony zipcode for his timely advice also.) Ain't salt grand?

Dr_KY
03-03-2009, 05:53 AM
I'm worried about to much salt, momma don't care for it much. Should I be concerned?

Bigmista
03-03-2009, 06:46 AM
Everything in moderation.

HeSmellsLikeSmoke
03-03-2009, 06:51 AM
I'm worried about to much salt, momma don't care for it much. Should I be concerned?

It stays mostly on the bark. Easy for her to avoid and more bark for you. :biggrin:

Dr_KY
03-03-2009, 06:59 AM
Thanks guys just seasoned it and fired up Half Pint.

CajunSmoker
03-03-2009, 07:23 AM
My problem is I click on a link, and then I have to click through to 10 or 12 others to get some great funk/soul rollin....then by the time I am done listening, well, the brisket is out for that day ;)

But great thread, it is all about the funk. So I suggest you just feel the funk, and your brisket will too...Feel the Funk (http://pop.youtube.com/watch?v=jXA5koWaJzY)

or...Ah get born, keep warm. Short pants, romance, learn to dance. Get dressed, get blessed
Try to be a success Please her, please him, buy gifts - Don't steal, don't lift
Twenty years of schoolin' And they put you on the day shift
Look out kid They keep it all hid
Better jump down a manhole Light yourself a candle
Don't wear sandals Try to avoid the scandals


and it don't take a weathervane to know which way the wind blows:-D

Neil
03-03-2009, 07:28 AM
Made a believer out of me. Sliced up a 12# packer this morning that I had on the WSM for 22 hours using K, Pecan, Cherry, and Oak. #1 was a coarse Kosher Salt, #2 was coarse ground black Pepper, #3 some granulated garlic. Best brisket I've ever made.

BBQchef33
03-03-2009, 08:27 AM
I'm worried about to much salt, momma don't care for it much. Should I be concerned?

no worries.

I am definatley a low salt family here.

My first layer was a sprinkling of course kosher salt. They way you normally would salt a steak.

Second was garlic salt. VERY light. Same with Onion salt, then Celery Salt. Just light sprinkles. then the pepper. My goal was to make the meat shine and NOT be overpowered or even masked by the seasonings.

I am sure one(maybe 2) of those can be replaced with the granulated non salt cousins.

Dr_KY
03-03-2009, 09:19 AM
Cool I'm going out to check on it now. It's only a small one so it's perfect for this run.

barbefunkoramaque
03-03-2009, 09:21 AM
yall ever heard of the scuff?

I remember a long time ago... I bought Popdaddy a new pair of Leather SOULED shoes ya know. It wasn't 10 minutes after I gave them his shoes that that phone rang on the bag phone and he told me "do the scuff, yo"

Now Popdaddy is particular about his shoes... all that dancing and those that are funky knows what happens when you wear new leather bottomed shoes without scuffing them on some cement first. You can fall or slip. There has to be that juuuust right friction.


Well, after you use the Lawrys (if you use combo salts like onion salt, celery salt and such omit the lawrys or be conservative) after you put your own twists of powders or granuals, when you mix up that large grained stuff, you need to SCUFF UP THAT BRISKET. Rub against the grain hard like you want to get the shine off of Popdaddys soles, and then with the grain, bending and kneading those kernals, your signature and that pepper all in those muscle fiber channels and fat. Then use a bit more and pack it on a bit. For those worried about salt the finer the grain the saltier it will be.

Cre-B-Ce
03-03-2009, 09:30 AM
I think some have missed out on some of the funkiness of this thread. I hope I am interpreting it right myself. :biggrin: My interpretation of the 3 layer rub was to have a finer grain salt on first. This will help carry flavor inward and get things all "stanky". The second layer is your peppers and other seasonings. Then the 3rd layer was a course grain salt to help with the bark. Funk, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Dr_KY
03-03-2009, 09:33 AM
Got it. Did the fine salt, pepper etc but havnt added the final layer of salt and i'm glad I waited till you got out of bed.lol

barbefunkoramaque
03-03-2009, 10:15 AM
This is kinda like "don't do what I do, do what I say.":-P

The first I used, I used Lawrys ONLY because I wanted a throwback to Angelos of Forth Worth and that's their thang. I do agree that finer salts in conservative amounts (not like I did in that video) go on first. This can be your celery, onion and garlic salts. Now in my case, since I only had lawrys I used my rub second... which actually is where my signature is... for instance I have a lot of Paprika, CELERY SEED, in there... but lower amounts of salt in it because it was tweaked to be my all purpose rub (eggs to potato salad to ribs to armadillo eggs). The final rub doesn't have to be my combination of no salt lemon pepper, pepper and montreal... just make sure everythang is large grained and rubbed in. So... no the second layer is not pepper (unless you want it to be) but it can be flavors.

So 1st layer (Fine Salts Carrier pulling the next layer.)
2cnd layer is Signature Flavor (Granulates, powders, low salt rubs)
3rd layer is large grains (pushing the two other layers flavor in sort of)

Cavat - If you are using finer grain salts and want to omit the first step then its a texas two step... close to Billy Bones Wall I Guess. That makes a fine product too.

Its kinda like
Layer one (fine salts)
Layer two (Dusts, powder granules)
Three (large cracked thangs)

I would say if can even omit the first two and just use large grains and its quite good.

The answer is no... throwing it all together in one rub is not the same.


I think some have missed out on some of the funkiness of this thread. I hope I am interpreting it right myself. :biggrin: My interpretation of the 3 layer rub was to have a finer grain salt on first. This will help carry flavor inward and get things all "stanky". The second layer is your peppers and other seasonings. Then the 3rd layer was a course grain salt to help with the bark. Funk, please correct me if I'm wrong.

barbefunkoramaque
03-03-2009, 10:18 AM
go back and view the video brisket prep again.

Got it. Did the fine salt, pepper etc but havnt added the final layer of salt and i'm glad I waited till you got out of bed.lol

HoosierTrooper
03-03-2009, 10:24 AM
So 1st layer (Fine Salts Carrier pulling the next layer.)
2cnd layer is Signature Flavor (Granulates, powders, low salt rubs)
3rd layer is large grains (pushing the two other layers flavor in sort of)


Its kinda like
Layer one (fine salts)
Layer two (Dusts, powder granules)
Three (large cracked thangs)

I would say if can even omit the first two and just use large grains and its quite good.

The answer is no... throwing it all together in one rub is not the same.
If this would have been the first post on page one then the subsequent 12 pages would not have been necessary...

bigabyte
03-03-2009, 10:29 AM
But then this thread wouldn't have been so funky!:biggrin:

Cre-B-Ce
03-03-2009, 10:29 AM
If this would have been the first post on page one then the subsequent 12 pages would not have been necessary...

But not nearly as interesting nor entertaining.

barbefunkoramaque
03-03-2009, 10:29 AM
ahhh yes but look at the journey we took and what we have learned from each other. See, by making things ridiculously complex we tend to try to understand it more.

Simple recipes on a sheet of paper don't really scream out to me to be made.


If this would have been the first post on page one then the subsequent 12 pages would not have been necessary...

Dr_KY
03-03-2009, 10:58 AM
Searching for it now.

Plowboy
03-03-2009, 11:35 AM
ahhh yes but look at the journey we took and what we have learned from each other. See, by making things ridiculously complex we tend to try to understand it more.

Simple recipes on a sheet of paper don't really scream out to me to be made.

I agree. You need to have the first 12 pages to understand why you are doing what you are doing. I hate cooking without knowing why I'm doing what I'm doing.

Dr_KY
03-03-2009, 11:48 AM
I over did the pepper.

HoosierTrooper
03-03-2009, 11:58 AM
I over did the pepper.
Maybe after the next thirteen pages of tutoring you'll have a better understanding of the process.

Dr_KY
03-03-2009, 12:03 PM
I love the pepper but it was a bit much for the kids. I now have a good starting point to build on :cool: It's resting right now so we will se what happend in just under an hour.

Dr_KY
03-03-2009, 12:09 PM
Remember I started with a rolled brisket so this was a section that fell out when I cut the strings. Gotta have something for the cook now don't cha?

http://i40.tinypic.com/2enoor5.jpg

barbefunkoramaque
03-03-2009, 01:12 PM
I love the pepper but it was a bit much for the kids. I now have a good starting point to build on :cool: It's resting right now so we will se what happend in just under an hour.


Thats odd... if you use 60 mesh or above pepper it milds out as long as you don't wrap it.

I find when I use regular pepper it IS too peppery

HeSmellsLikeSmoke
03-03-2009, 01:14 PM
Remember I started with a rolled brisket so this was a section that fell out when I cut the strings. Gotta have something for the cook now don't cha?

http://i40.tinypic.com/2enoor5.jpg

That brisket looks perfect to my eyes. Great job Doc.

barbefunkoramaque
03-03-2009, 01:15 PM
If this would have been the first post on page one then the subsequent 12 pages would not have been necessary...


LMAO even I had to go back and find what this thread was all about. It wasn't about the tri level rub so much as our friend George Clinton.

when you said "next thirteen pages" I was trying to find a spelling for the sound you make when you laugh so hard you snort through your nose.

LOL

Wax On, Wax Off...

Pat Moriarity Mod

bowhnter
03-03-2009, 01:47 PM
This is great, I gotta go get a brisket soon like.

I bet if this had all been straight talk and unfunky, I may not have tried so hard to pay attention and lost some of what I needed to know.

Doc, looks good!

Cre-B-Ce
03-03-2009, 02:00 PM
LMAO even I had to go back and find what this thread was all about. It wasn't about the tri level rub so much as our friend George Clinton.

when you said "next thirteen pages" I was trying to find a spelling for the sound you make when you laugh so hard you snort through your nose.

LOL

Wax On, Wax Off...

Pat Moriarity Mod


I think I speak for a bunch of us...we'd rather see the video.

Dr_KY
03-03-2009, 02:06 PM
Ahhhh I fighred out where I went wrong.

The cut I posted above recieved a second dose of pepper. It was a part of the full brisket and as I was preping it fell off, I then hit it with pepper again while doing the rest of the brisket. OPERATOR ERROR on my part. The rest of the brisket came out excellent.


Funk- I only fresh cracked pepper :cool:

jonboy
03-03-2009, 05:33 PM
Dr KY,
That's a nice piece of beef you got there.
Looks like I'll be firing up the pit very soon.
I hope mine turns out that nice.
jon

HoDeDo
03-03-2009, 07:21 PM
But then this thread wouldn't have been so funky!:biggrin:

you can't stop the funk. :cool:

ahhh yes but look at the journey we took and what we have learned from each other. See, by making things ridiculously complex we tend to try to understand it more. Simple recipes on a sheet of paper don't really scream out to me to be made.

I for one, know I have been wanting to get more consistent with my brisket. Jeff S. had me thinkin' back to the core of this last year... and this thread is the basis for a whole new re-mix. :icon_devil
I'm coming back live with no click track!!!! Soul Power - just for you. (http://www.rhapsody.com/player?type=track&id=tra.17640655&remote=false&page=&pageregion=&guid=&from=&hasrhapx=false&__pcode=)

DDave
04-16-2009, 09:02 AM
So . . . if one wanted to put this 3 layer technique into practice


1st layer (Fine Salts Carrier pulling the next layer.)
2nd layer is Signature Flavor (Granulates, powders, low salt rubs)
3rd layer is large grains (pushing the two other layers flavor in sort of

with, for example, the following list if ingredients

Lawrys Seasoning Salt
kosher salt
garlic powder
onion powder
coarse black pepper

Would the proper order of application be as follows?

Layer One
Lawrys Seasoning Salt

Layer Two
garlic powder
onion powder

Layer Three ("scuffed" in) :biggrin:
coarse black pepper
kosher salt

Or in this case would it be best to omit the Lawry's and just go with Layers 2 and 3?


Great thread, by the way.


Dave

jonboy
04-16-2009, 09:43 AM
If the garlic and onion powders have salt in them, you might omit the seasoning salt or it might get too salty(Is that possible?) . IMHO
My next attempt will be seasoning salt, then fresh garlic and onion, then pepper and salt.
My briskets are getting a lot better after this thread.
jon

Bigmista
04-16-2009, 10:01 AM
So . . . if one wanted to put this 3 layer technique into practice



with, for example, the following list if ingredients

Lawrys Seasoning Salt
kosher salt
garlic powder
onion powder
coarse black pepper

Would the proper order of application be as follows?

Layer One
Lawrys Seasoning Salt

Layer Two
garlic powder
onion powder

Layer Three ("scuffed" in) :biggrin:
coarse black pepper
kosher salt

Or in this case would it be best to omit the Lawry's and just go with Layers 2 and 3?


Great thread, by the way.


Dave

I would eliminate the Kosher salt on the last level.

Thawley
04-16-2009, 10:43 AM
This thread has changed my life.

Donnie – you are my new favorite Brethren. (Sorry Neil, but you didn't return my call last weekend...)

I only had time to read the first 4 pages before starting my Easter brisket on the UUDS™ (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29692&highlight=UUDS%99). After only 4 pages it was still the best brisket I have ever made. (My Mom was moved to tears. She told me she hadn't tasted anything like that since she was a little girl in Houston, attending BBQs with her uncle at the Texas Cattleman's Club just after WWII) Imagine how much better it might be after I read the entire thread... This remarkable transformation of flavor can be summarized thusly:

Simplify. And add salt.

Testing my understanding of that philosophy, Sunday's brisket was rubbed with only two things: Lawry's & Monterey steak seasoning.

Following Donnie's demo – the fine-grained Lawry's went on first. Lot's of it. More than I've ever used. More than I would have believed necessary. Then I rubbed it in. (Never really did that before. Always just kinda sprinkled it evenly.) Following that, it got a generous – somewhat less vigorous – rubbing of MSS.

At foiling time I thought I'd ruined it. Pulled off a little taste – as I'm apt to do – and felt like I had the entire Bonneville salt flats in my mouth. Yuck. But knowing the cook was not over and that I don't want to have Easter at my house again next year, I proceeded normally. Ah but it wasn't normal. It was BETTER than normal. It was glorious. It was juicy. It was bitchen. My best brisket ever.

So it looks like we will be having Easter here again next year.

Thanks Donnie.

Thawley
04-16-2009, 10:53 AM
Sunday's brisket was rubbed with only two things: Lawry's & Monterey steak seasoning.
Whoops – almost forgot – I also covered the top of the brisket with four fresh onions worth of slices. Think that idea came from another thread.

millsy
04-16-2009, 04:52 PM
Was this moved into roadmaps?

QDoc
04-18-2009, 12:32 PM
What I take away from this is that competition BBQ is schizophrenic.

Here goes... BBQ has an initial accepted, conservative definition. The envelope is then pushed by some who refuse to be defined by convention (Prince), which is received with great acceptance, except for the purists (Industry).

Here's where I get confused...Does the new guard (Prince) become the old guard (Prince 2.0) by going back to the original convention once proving that the new convention worked? Or once the envelope bursts because of unskilled cooks seeking glory instead of purity (Prince Thieves) polluting the air with continual over tweaking, the purist (Ray Charles) is back in vogue? Or is it both. I was kind of lost on the innovation of Prince and then the stripping away all of the new innovations to take it back.

If either are true, then the only relevant standard in BBQ is what tickles the tongue "Right Now". If the old school "sound" is what is hip, then that is what you roll with. When that sound becomes passe, then you better start innovating (tweaking). At some point the tweaking also becomes passe and what was old is now new again.

Looking back through the history of KCBS comp BBQ (the only history I'm really versed in) there are many signs o the times (Did you see what I did there?) that had their day, but were more a flash in the pan.

Here's what I think... for what it is worth. Good is good. Complex and simple can both be good and work at a competition. You catch the timing right with either direction and you could walk away a hero. It is like an artist who was either ahead of their time... or behind. A strong foundation of your craft is key whether you are a pitmaster or a funkmaster. I'll be doing a S&P brisket soon to exercise my skills and bring it back.
I must confess my knowledge of Funk is limited and I've always considered my self a traditionalist and growing up in the 50's and 60's tradition to me is rhythm and blues and rock and roll. That being said I have kept every tie I've ever owned and some of the old ones I have recently worn. However, I never kept my leisure suits and bell bottoms.:lol:
Enjoyed this thread immencely.

barbefunkoramaque
04-18-2009, 12:49 PM
I must confess my knowledge of Funk is limited and I've always considered my self a traditionalist and growing up in the 50's and 60's tradition to me is rhythm and blues and rock and roll. That being said I have kept every tie I've ever owned and some of the old ones I have recently worn. However, I never kept my leisure suits and bell bottoms.:lol:
Enjoyed this thread immencely.

As a child I wore those polyester suits but at about 36 (YEAR 2000?) I bought a vintage one to wear as a salesman to compete with another salesman (who was 80 and wore these suits everyday) He was a top seller with his polyester sunburst paisley suits. Sold circles around me... I was forever the number 2 salesperson because of him.

These suits are HOT to wear. My God they don't breathe! I wore a PINE green double breasted one with Shamrock Buttons.

Thawley
04-18-2009, 12:58 PM
I wore a PINE green double breasted one with Shamrock Buttons.
Photos?

barbefunkoramaque
04-18-2009, 01:05 PM
I wish... Plus... somebody threw it away when I took it off and left it there... or stole it LOL

I was out of 15 bucks

ZILLA
08-25-2010, 11:26 AM
Lordy lordy how I love to read this thread every so often! :-D

leanza
08-25-2010, 11:39 AM
Classic, for sure.

gtsum
08-25-2010, 06:33 PM
good read and I know my brisket has improved a good bit since using the basic tri level rub

High Q
09-07-2010, 09:46 PM
I read this thread a year or so ago. Haven't been satisfied with my cooking of late - my friends like it but I was feeling like an angry Joe Ely banging out "Gallo del Cielo" for the thousandth time. Found this thread again while searching the brethren for "Walter Jetton". Getting back to my roots and away from techniques.

barbefunkoramaque
09-07-2010, 10:27 PM
You know I live In Dickinson/Friendswood right?

Pitmaster T
02-24-2013, 04:55 PM
at least five of these are worth roadmapping.

The Taboo of Simmering - Jetton and Legends of Texas BBQ (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=75441&highlight=brisket) (6 Pages) barbefunkoramaque

The Legendary Texas Crutch - Foil (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=104020&highlight=texas+crutch) (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/images/misc/multipage.gif 1 (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=104020&highlight=texas+crutch) 2 (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=104020&page=2&highlight=texas+crutch))

The Clock and the Temperature Probe (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=84240&highlight=brisket) ( 1 (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=84240&highlight=brisket) 2 (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=84240&page=2&highlight=brisket) 3 (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=84240&page=3&highlight=brisket) 4 (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=84240&page=4&highlight=brisket) 5 (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=84240&page=5&highlight=brisket))
barbefunkoramaque

Brisket - Night Train in a Dark Closet - for the Funky Only (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57815&highlight=brisket) ( HUGE) barbefunkoramaque

The Official Popdaddy's Ingredient List (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66331&highlight=brisket) ( 4 Pages) barbefunkoramaque

VIDEO VERSION - Popdaddy's Legends Code 2.0 (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99589) ( 2 Pages) barbefunkoramaque

Hot RIBS - ǝɔuǝıɹǝdxǝ ǝʇɐɯıʇln ǝɥʇ - RIBS Fast (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73990&highlight=brisket) ( 4 Pages)
barbefunkoramaque

German Preference - Damn That Sucker ist Hot!!! (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77903&highlight=brisket) ( 1 (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77903&highlight=brisket) 2 (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77903&page=2&highlight=brisket))
barbefunkoramaque

Poll: BBQ Priorities POll #1 - What do we Learn to Cook For First? (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77123&highlight=brisket) ( 1 (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77123&highlight=brisket) 2 (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77123&page=2&highlight=brisket)) barbefunkoramaque

Poll: Polling Priorities #2- What Traits do we Conquer First? (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77127&highlight=ribs) ( 1 (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77127&highlight=ribs) 2 (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77127&page=2&highlight=ribs))
barbefunkoramaque

Poll: Polling Priorities #3 - What Traits do we conquer Second? (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77128&highlight=poll)
barbefunkoramaque

Poll: Polling Priorities #4 - What Challenges/Challenged you Most? (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77141&highlight=poll)
barbefunkoramaque

Poll: Favored Brisket Temp range (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=85692&highlight=brisket) ( 1 (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=85692&highlight=brisket) 2 (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=85692&page=2&highlight=brisket) 3 (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=85692&page=3&highlight=brisket)) barbefunkoramaque

Ignorance and what is and is not BBQ (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66241&highlight=brisket) ( 1 (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66241&highlight=brisket) 2 (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66241&page=2&highlight=brisket) 3 (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66241&page=3&highlight=brisket) 4 (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66241&page=4&highlight=brisket) 5 (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66241&page=5&highlight=brisket) 6 (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66241&page=6&highlight=brisket) ... Last Page (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66241&page=9&highlight=brisket))
barbefunkoramaque

JD McGee
02-24-2013, 09:49 PM
OMG...I just revisited this thread...lol! I couldn't cook a brisket to save my life back then! :p. Now...thanks to Donnie, Wayne, and a chitload of burned meat I can actually say..."nailed it"...thanks brothers! :)

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Pitmaster T
01-01-2014, 12:26 PM
OMG...I just revisited this thread...lol! I couldn't cook a brisket to save my life back then! :p. Now...thanks to Donnie, Wayne, and a chitload of burned meat I can actually say..."nailed it"...thanks brothers! :)

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Ure Welcome... HD is coming soon.

Pitmaster T
11-09-2014, 08:16 AM
http://youtu.be/FvUVyANtXXQ

Pitmaster T
03-30-2015, 05:31 PM
Jamona!

Pitmaster T
02-09-2016, 12:46 PM
Arrrg!

Pitmaster T
01-22-2019, 01:47 PM
Salt... where is Professor Salt?