People's Choice

[arlieque]

Ok, so it has been asked in another thread.

As a organizer wanting to have great contest and also help in the cost of cooking there may be many things we could do like running the prize money through more places etc but if you cooked a contest with people choice let us know how it went with answering the questions below:

1-what was the split
2-did you have to be inspected by the health dept. and or pay a fee for that
3-were you able to sell at all times the event was open
4-how big could the samples be
5-did you have to be enclosed / screened and have a 3 hole sink / hand sink
6-was it too much work and would you do it again

Anything else I didnt mention please let us know.

Thanks, Arlie

[NotleyQue]

Arlie, you should talk to Thom Emery. He started PC out here in California and it is GREAT.

Here are the answers to your questions:

1-what was the split

teams got $1.00 and the charity or organization got $1.00

2-did you have to be inspected by the health dept. and or pay a fee for that

health dept did inspect us and the teams did not have to pay a fee. The HD looked for things like a proper wash station, hotwater, proper PH in bleach watewr, ice chests off the ground, screened in prep area. It did not cost the teams anything, and I believe it was a blanket health permet obtained by the promoter.

3-were you able to sell at all times the event was open

No, we started selling at either a predetermined set time (like noon till 5pm) or as soon as last turn in was done.

4-how big could the samples be

2oz were what we we required to sell.

5-did you have to be enclosed / screened and have a 3 hole sink / hand sink


You had to have a screened in prep area, a place to keep your meats hot (chaffing dishes), and you had to have 3 sinks. We used (and many other people as well) 3 buss tubs, and a dedicated hot water supply. Coleman Insta Hots work perfectly.

6-was it too much work and would you do it again

It is extra work, but the interaction with the crowd is great, and I got some well paying catering gigs out of the deal. The crowds love it, most of the cooks love it. Notley Que was able to make enough extra $$$ on P.C last year to pay for a few entry fees, so that in itself is worth it.

[arlieque]

I have spoke with Thom, I wanted to get a better fell national on how teams felt about this.

Thanks, Arlie

[txschutte]

Any way for a team to recoup some of their costs is a good thing. We plan to do a few PC categories next year.

[NotleyQue]

Come on out to Stagecoach 2009 April 25th and 26th in Indio CA.
Come and see how real PC is done.




I have spoke with Thom, I wanted to get a better fell national on how teams felt about this.

Thanks, Arlie

[The Pickled Pig]

Out this way, the term "People's Choice" usually doesn't involve selling food to the public. That's a category some contests do where they provide an extra butt or brisket to cook and it's turned in separately and people vote for their favorite. The organizer provdes the meat and it is given to the public. The entry getting the most votes gets some type of award.

But there are some contests that allow teams to vend. Most of them payout 80% of the sales to the teams. We did one contest that paid 100% of sales to the teams. I wouldn't go through all of the trouble for a 50% payout. Teams are responsible for getting the required health permits and that usually involves completing an application, paying a small fee, and getting inspected. The rules vary greatly by location. Teams also decide their own menu, portion sizes, and prices (i.e., $3 a bone for ribs or $6 for a PP sammy, etc.).

[ThomEmery]

We take care of the permits, ticket sales and pub
It is not the same as vending
At small contests many teams just sell the product they dont turn in
At a bigger one like Stagecoach they cook extra

[arlieque]

Thom, just wondering, do all your selling teams carry 1 million in Libility insurance for catering / vending?

[ThomEmery]

No I do

[Vince RnQ]

I added my comments below Gary's and put them in red for ease in identifying who wrote what.

Here are the answers to your questions:

1-what was the split

teams got $1.00 and the charity or organization got $1.00

How many vendors are asked to pay 50% of their gross sales for the right to sell? The 80/20 split I have seen at events outside of California and Arizona are much more equitable considering who is bearing the brunt of the costs involved in cooking and serving the food.

2-did you have to be inspected by the health dept. and or pay a fee for that

health dept did inspect us and the teams did not have to pay a fee. The HD looked for things like a proper wash station, hotwater, proper PH in bleach watewr, ice chests off the ground, screened in prep area. It did not cost the teams anything, and I believe it was a blanket health permet obtained by the promoter.

The requirements that we've have faced have varied greatly from venue to venue. We've been required to take and pass food service tests, pass health department inspections, purchase screened walls for our booth, etc., etc. It all depends on what the health department in the county where the contest is being held requires and then it depends on what the on-site health department inspector decides you need to do.

3-were you able to sell at all times the event was open

No, we started selling at either a predetermined set time (like noon till 5pm) or as soon as last turn in was done.

This also varies from event to event. We have been asked to have food available on both Friday and Saturday at some events as a condition of participation in vending/PC/ToQ and the announced hours of service on Saturday are rarely enforced as teams will begin the vending process as early as they have food ready, usually right after Chicken turn-ins are done even though the promoter specified that distribution wasn't to begin until after Brisket turn-ins were complete.

4-how big could the samples be

2oz were what we we required to sell.

A 2 oz. sample has been the norm but hardly anyone is actually weighing out their sample size so portions are often in the 1/4 lb. to 1/3 lb. range. We have actually weighed out 2 oz. portions in the past and always get complaints that we're serving much smaller samples than the other teams. Folks begin to feel like they're getting ripped off and that isn't good for anyone. Enforcement of a uniform sample is next to impossible to accomplish so there isn't much you can do but go along with the majority and that means you sell fewer portions than you could have and everyone makes less money than they could have. I've seen this happen time and time again.

5-did you have to be enclosed / screened and have a 3 hole sink / hand sink


You had to have a screened in prep area, a place to keep your meats hot (chaffing dishes), and you had to have 3 sinks. We used (and many other people as well) 3 buss tubs, and a dedicated hot water supply. Coleman Insta Hots work perfectly.

I pretty much covered this earlier but, to reiterate, the local health department is going to be the determining factor in what the actual requirements will be and then you have to deal with what the on-site inspector wants you to do.

6-was it too much work and would you do it again

It is extra work, but the interaction with the crowd is great, and I got some well paying catering gigs out of the deal. The crowds love it, most of the cooks love it. Notley Que was able to make enough extra $$$ on P.C last year to pay for a few entry fees, so that in itself is worth it.

Yes, it's extra work, sometimes a lot of extra work but it can also be very rewarding as we, the teams, rarely get the opportunity to witness people tasting our food and give us their praise. It's also great fun to stand out in front of the booth and "hawk your wares" so to speak. I've had some great times doing PC/ToQ events. As for doing it again, I'll be very hard pressed to ever participate in a PC/ToQ event that has a 50/50 split. At that rate it's a break even venture at best. I would much rather spend that time either relaxing a bit after the hard work of putting together the competition food and then begin the process of breaking down and packing. We often have a long drive home (8 hours or more) the next day and I'd rather be broken down and packed up before the awards ceremony, go to the ceremony and then spend a few hours celebrating and socializing with our friends before leaving for the hotel and getting a good night of sleep.

[arlieque]

No I do

NOt sure that is the smartest thing to do. So you are taking all the responibllity for the teams in PC. So one person gets sick and you are in court? Sorry friend, I cant do that!

[ThomEmery]

Stagecoach will I am almost positive (final agreement this coming weeK) be going back to the year one plan. The event buys and stores the meat Teams cook and serve it.
All teams will cook (or get help in doing so) an equal amounts and get a equal share of the proceeds
The standard containers (suppplied) will be sized so that 2oz fills it
The easy to load tubs used in 2008 were as Vince said too large 2 oz looked very small in it
Liability is apart of the Promotors cost. With 64,000 in attendence they have one heck of a policy

[Alexa RnQ]

A People's Choice tip: you know those see-through flimsy food-service disposable gloves? We found that ten tickets will fit neatly in each finger and thumb for a total of fifty per glove, then the wrist can be knotted. Makes counting time a breeze.

[Bigmista]

Stagecoach will I am almost positive (final agreement this coming weeK) be going back to the year one plan. The event buys and stores the meat Teams cook and serve it.
All teams will cook (or get help in doing so) an equal amounts and get a equal share of the proceeds
The standard containers (suppplied) will be sized so that 2oz fills it
The easy to load tubs used in 2008 were as Vince said too large 2 oz looked very small in it
Liability is apart of the Promotors cost. With 64,000 in attendence they have one heck of a policy

Can you explain that equal share of the proceeds thing? Are you saying that if I sell 2000 samples and Gary sells 2 samples that we get the same amount of money? I hope we are just having a bit of miscommunication. I like being in control of my own destiny. I understand PC being too much for some teams to handle but don't limit my ability to earn.

[Gowan]

Here in Georgia you would have zero chance of selling a 2 oz sample for $2.

The People's Choice setups I've seen typically include 5-10 tickets included with admission, with the option to purchase more. The highest price for a sample ticket I've seen is a dollar, and a price that high is rare. PC and vending are usually kept separate.

[NotleyQue]

Change Neil...we are in a era of Change.


Can you explain that equal share of the proceeds thing? Are you saying that if I sell 2000 samples and Gary sells 2 samples that we get the same amount of money? I hope we are just having a bit of miscommunication. I like being in control of my own destiny. I understand PC being too much for some teams to handle but don't limit my ability to earn.

[Babyboomerboy]

I am setting up our first comp for next July. Could someone explain how the People's Choice works? If I understand it correctly, I sell tickets to the public, they come around to your site and give you a ticket for a sample of your cooking. Then after the comp is over you bring your tickets to me and I give you part of the money that I received selling the tickets. What I don't understand is where the health department comes in and who determines who can sell to the public and who can't. And what rules apply to those who can and those who can't. I also need to know if having a people's Choice is the same as having an additional category as far as the KCBS goes. Thank you all, I have been learning a lot from reading this forum.

[Bigmista]

I am setting up our first comp for next July. Could someone explain how the People's Choice works? If I understand it correctly, I sell tickets to the public, they come around to your site and give you a ticket for a sample of your cooking. Then after the comp is over you bring your tickets to me and I give you part of the money that I received selling the tickets. What I don't understand is where the health department comes in and who determines who can sell to the public and who can't. And what rules apply to those who can and those who can't. I also need to know if having a people's Choice is the same as having an additional category as far as the KCBS goes. Thank you all, I have been learning a lot from reading this forum.

HD rules differ from city to city so you will have to talk to them about what they will allow. Here in California, People's Choice is usually a 50/50 split. People buy a packet of 6 tickets for $10. 5 tickets are good for a 2oz. sample. The other ticket allows people to vote for their favorite booth. $1 of each ticket goes to a local charity, the other $1 goes to the team. Team with the most People's choice tickets wins a trophy but no cash. Teams probably won't go for it if the money goes to the promoter unless it is being funneled back into the purse for the contest.

[ThomEmery]

Neil SC year one we did equal work equal shares
SC buys the meat and stores it
Shares are based on raw weight
We should have the final plan this week
More prize $

[ThomEmery]

Here in Georgia you would have zero chance of selling a 2 oz sample for $2.

The People's Choice setups I've seen typically include 5-10 tickets included with admission, with the option to purchase more. The highest price for a sample ticket I've seen is a dollar, and a price that high is rare. PC and vending are usually kept separate.

Yes we are blessed with earthquakes wild fires and the ability to sell PC at $2.50 a 2oz shot :) The concert location is why this works

[Dale P]

I wish all comps would do the same as Thom. People expect BBQ so lets sell it to them.

[Vince RnQ]

Dale, you have no idea what a Pandora's Box PC really is. If you want to see a model that works well, check out the Pork & Brew in Rio Rancho, NM. They allow you to vend anything you want, any way you want, for as long or as little as you like, you set the portion size, you set the price and the event only takes a 20% cut of your gross sales.

The event sets up a couple of locations where the public can purchase scrip, called "BBQ Bucks", that they then use to purchase food and drink and you redeem the scrip at the end of the day for your 80%. You are not allowed to accept cash, (a rule that was also in place at a few other PC events I've participated in but, alas, wasn't enforced), and if you do get caught accepting cash you will not be allowed to redeem your scrip.

This method allows for an incredible amount of creativity from the teams and the public gets much more than just pork, chicken, ribs and brisket in 2 oz. cups. We saw everything from grilled shrimp on skewers to frozen chocolate covered bananas and everything in between being sold. It is an excellent way to run the program and you can actually make a profit doing it.

[Dale P]

We have done a PC once so I have some idea. Im for selling anything to recoup some dough.

[Vince RnQ]

But that's just the point, Dale. Most people think that "anything is better than nothing" but if you do enough of them you begin to realize that it just isn't worth the work unless you are getting a fair shake on the split.

[Bentley]

$1 of each ticket goes to a local charity, the other $1 goes to the team.


It does not always go to charity. At Stagecoach it went back to promoter?(at least it did not go to charity there). At Hesperia teams keep $2 I believe.

Just depends on how it is structured.

[Bigmista]

Personally, I don't mind the 50/50 split if it is going to a good charity or back into the prize pool.

[Bigmista]

Hesperia we were allowed to accept cash. We paid an extra $50 to be able to sell samples.

[Rolling Smoke]

I wish all comps would do the same as Thom. People expect BBQ so lets sell it to them.

Is that what you want to see happen in Kettering next year?

[Dale P]

I would like it but I have plenty of help on my team unlike some others. I know that PC would be tough on the guys who cook alone.

Im bringing the beer.:eek:

[ThomEmery]

The 50/50 split works when you are just selling the BBQ you cooked but did not turn in
We are changing the process for 2009 when there is a bigger crowd

[Vince RnQ]

The 50/50 split works when you are just selling the BBQ you cooked but did not turn in


I guess if you say it often enough then maybe people will think it's true. A simple analysis of the math proves otherwise.

I can easily sell "restaurant/catering" quality meat for the following:
Pork - $10/lb. or $0.625/oz.
Ribs - $20/rack (10 bones) or $2/bone
Brisket - $12/lb. or $0.75/oz.
Under a 50/50 split where the price is $2.00 for a 2 oz. sample, a team would be generating the following:
Pork - 8 samples per pound @ $2/sample = $16 gross and $8 net
Ribs - 20 samples per rack @ $2/sample - $40 gross and $20 net
Brisket - 8 samples per pound @ $2/sample = $16 gross and $8 net
Final comparison:
Pork - $10/lb. Private vs. $8/lb. PC = Net Loss of $2/lb.
Ribs - $20/Rack Private vs. $20/rack PC = Break Even
Brisket - $12/lb. Private vs. $8/lb. PC = Net Loss of $4/lb.
What is not addressed in the Private vs. PC numbers above is that I have to provide the additional labor involved in selling the 2 oz. samples, provide and transport the additional equipment (chaffing dishes, sterno, etc.) needed to comply with safe food service guidelines and usually provide the containers, utensils and napkins. And remember, these numbers are for "restaurant/catering" quality food, not "competition" quality food. (I can produce "restaurant/catering" quality food in larger quantities and with far less labor than it takes to produce my "competition" quality food making my profit margin even higher.) I have sponsors, supporters and friends who have done one helluva lot more to deserve my competition leftovers then simply selling it at a loss to whoever happens to be on hand at the event and then giving away half the proceeds to a non-charitable entity.

So, the best I can do on the meat alone is break even.

Yeah, that 50/50 split sure does work...for the promoter.

[Bigmista]

Vince,

The spirit of the People's choice is to:
1. Involve the crowd at a contest and allow them to taste the BBQ instead of just watching you cook it.

2. Allow teams who have extra food to get rid of it. (Most teams I talk to prefer not to take a lot of extra meat home.)

3. Allow people to make some extra cash to at least cover gas and/or meat costs.

Not all teams have sponsors, do catering or finish in the top 5 in every contest and leave with a boatload of money in their pockets. People's choice gives those who choose to participate a chance to make a little cash and continue to compete.

[Vince RnQ]

And the 80/20 split, as is practiced at events like the Pork & Brew in Rio Rancho, NM, serve all those points admirably.

[NotleyQue]

New Mexico isnt California.

At an event like Stagecoach, its whatever the promoter says goes.
If you dont like the 50/50 split, which you dont, there is a very simple solution.
Dont participate in the Peoples Choice. No one is forcing you. That way there are less people selling it, making teams like Neils and I very happy with the extra traffic, and you get to make your sponsers happy with all your leftovers.

I like peoples choice, I make money at peoples choice, why, who knows.

We also sell lots of chicken and pork which runs around $1.00 a pound. So by your math we make $8.00 a pound, for meat we are already cooking, and meat I dont want to take home. So if I cook an 8 pound pork butt, and after shrinkage its 6 pounds I make $48.00 on my initial $8.00 investment. Good deal to me. If you are giving people brisket and ribs, well that isnt very smart business.

I also do quite a bit a catering as well, so I know how much I can make catering (average $15.00 a person), and I know its no where near Peoples Choice, but I would never compare the two. Catering is cateing, and peoples choice is peoples choice.

[Scottie]

I never have a dog in this fight, as I don't do People's Choice. More to the fact on the size of my team and I am usually gravel throwing right after rewards...

But, if a contest organizer pockets money, I don't see what the problem with that is? THose people are there for a reason and more than likely that is because of the organizer. If you don't like how the split works, then do what I do and not participate? Easy peasy.

Hope it's nice and warm down in the valley of the sun Vince.

[Vince RnQ]

Guys, plain and simple, here's my point:

We're all being told that a 50/50 split is fair and works for everyone. That isn't true and the numbers don't lie. No one has refuted that argument. I take exception to the fact that we're continually asked to believe otherwise.

I agree with Scottie and choose not to participate in this voluntary activity unless the circumstances allow it and the numbers work.

[Bentley]

We're all being told that a 50/50 split is fair


Guess it would depend on who you are asking!

[Vince RnQ]

So what do you think, Bent?

[Bigmista]

My dad always told me 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing.

And like Gary I get a big kick out of interacting with the crowd. We aren't the main attraction at a lot of events that have People's choice. We are a side show. The promoters have us there for extra entertainment for the crowd. Watching people snip parsley and brush sauce on meat is only entertaining for so long. People's choice engages the crowd and gives them a chance to participate. When we are entertaining, promoters are more likely to invite us back and have larger purses. Espescially if the People's choice helps cover the expense of part of the purse.

I'm sure there are other contests in an open field with no crowds, just teams and judges. But contests with crowds and People's choice are infinitely more fun and profitable for me. I'd rather look at it as making $8/# on meat that would have just been leftovers and frozen or given away instead of losing $2/# because I didn't sell it at my normal catering price.

[jminion]

Unless I lived in the area and would see possible catering jobs from a 50/50 setup I could use it advertising, it's a break even at best. If there was a charity I may do it, but 50/50 is not equitable to the teams IMO. Lot of work for no reward.

[ThomEmery]

Vince
Dont cook PC
Just dont do it
Dont worry about it anymore
It is not your problem
from now on :)

[Bentley]

So what do you think, Bent?

This has thrown me, I do not get ask this very often!

I guess if you say it often enough then maybe people will think it's true.

Man, no truer words have ever been spoken...Sure seems that way to me!

I can easily sell "restaurant/catering" quality meat for the following:
Pork - $10/lb. or $0.625/oz.
Ribs - $20/rack (10 bones) or $2/bone
Brisket - $12/lb. or $0.75/oz.

You would normally get $1.25 for your 2 oz? So you are losing 25 basis points.

I think you, like many others, are willing to take that hit for a charity or their local State BBQ Association if it is going there. If it is going into promoters pocket you may not be as inclined to take the Hit! More on that later.
Under a 50/50 split where the price is $2.00 for a 2 oz. sample, a team would be generating the following:
Pork - 8 samples per pound @ $2/sample = $16 gross and $8 net Probably closer to 6-7 samples, but you are being genorus!
Ribs - 20 samples per rack @ $2/sample - $40 gross and $20 net
Brisket - 8 samples per pound @ $2/sample = $16 gross and $8 net See above.
Final comparison:
Pork - $10/lb. Private vs. $8/lb. PC = Net Loss of $2/lb.
Ribs - $20/Rack Private vs. $20/rack PC = Break Even
Brisket - $12/lb. Private vs. $8/lb. PC = Net Loss of $4/lb.

I see your point, but I do not have the oppernunity to sell my product for $10/lb. Never really did the math on the PC samples Vs cost. Did not realize I was getting $8/lb at the PC, I am very happy now! If I can get $5 a lb when I sell it to friends and co-workers I am happy!


What is not addressed in the Private vs. PC numbers above is that I have to provide the additional labor involved in selling the 2 oz. samples, provide and transport the additional equipment (chaffing dishes, sterno, etc.) needed to comply with safe food service guidelines and usually provide the containers, utensils and napkins.

Very good point!

Also very hard for us as a 3 person team to compete and stay focused on the competition and do PC, just that simple with the dynamic of my team! Team with lots of members or a crew that can come out and help...Man, I would get in it up to my neck!



New Mexico isnt California.

At an event like Stagecoach, its whatever the promoter says goes.
If you dont like the 50/50 split, which you dont, there is a very simple solution.

Could not agree more!

Dont participate in the Peoples Choice. No one is forcing you.

I was under the impression that at the last 2 StageCoach events you had too? Thom can answer that question!

So if I cook an 8 pound pork butt, and after shrinkage its 6 pounds...

Please let me know where you buy these magical butts for this shrinkage!




But, if a contest organizer pockets money, I don't see what the problem with that is?

The contest for a team like ours is a hobby, that sometimes pays out money, plain and simple for us.

The contest for the promoter/orgainizer/whatever you want to call yourself, is a business...as soon as teams realize that they will be better off.

Should the promoter/orgainizer be able to make money? Shoot, I hope they get all they can carry! I would also hope it would not come at the expense of the prize pool.

[ThomEmery]

As I have said in 2009 we are revamping the PC process
Proposed is SC to buy and store the meat
teams will get it just before they need to start cooking
Like we did at the first SC

[Dale P]

I am still for it. Just for the fun of seeing big girls line up for a sample would be fun for us. I might even set Matt up in a kissing booth. We could make millions.

[arlieque]

I think I will come out and set up a dunking booth with Thom as the clown, now we can make some money dunking him for starting all this non sense over peoples choice. Just kidding Thom, you know no one would want to dunk you? LOL

[ThomEmery]

Its the future Arlie You will learn to love it :)

[Vince RnQ]

A friend of mine, whose opinion I respect, sent me a message today regarding this thread and pointed out that I sound like I am anti-PC. If that is the impression I am making then I'm not doing a very good job of conveying my opinion.

I am not anti-PC. I thoroughly enjoy the interaction with the crowd, just as my friend does as he too is a competitor, and all the fun that comes from serving people food that they enjoy eating. What I am against is being taken advantage of by the unfair split. That's it. I'll do an 80/20 PC event every time I can but anything less than that isn't worth the effort.

So, one more time: Pro PC, Anti Getting Taken Advantage Of


My dad always told me 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing.

If only that were always the case.


Unless I lived in the area and would see possible catering jobs from a 50/50 setup I could use it advertising, it's a break even at best. If there was a charity I may do it, but 50/50 is not equitable to the teams IMO. Lot of work for no reward.

Hi Jim, I'd like to welcome you to The Wilderness. It looks like I'm not alone anymore.


Vince
Dont cook PC
Just dont do it
Dont worry about it anymore
It is not your problem
from now on :)

Why not discuss the facts, Thom? If you believe I'm wrong or that the numbers don't hold up, why not point that out? It's easy to speak in generalities, to dismiss the dissenting voice by telling me "it's not my problem from now on" but that doesn't really address the issue now does it?

Just because you choose not to address the economics doesn't mean they don't matter.

[C Rocke]

I think I will come out and set up a dunking booth with Thom as the clown, now we can make some money dunking him for starting all this non sense over peoples choice. Just kidding Thom, you know no one would want to dunk you? LOL


We'd have to set this up on an entirely different weekend to handle the crowds...

[ThomEmery]

As I have said in 2009 we are revamping the PC process
Proposed is SC to buy and store the meat
teams will get it just before they need to start cooking
Like we did at the first SC

Vince You want to discuss the merits or
lack there of a system that we is no longer in use


Yes you can make more money catering
Thats really not the point
You will make more haulin VIPs around PHX
I can make more money hauling garbage than
organizing BBQ Competitions
But I still do em
Its part of growing the sport

We wont be doing PC like we did last year again
OK

[ThomEmery]

We'd have to set this up on an entirely different weekend to handle the crowds... You betcha

[Vince RnQ]

Vince You want to discuss the merits or
lack there of a system that we is no longer in use


Yes you can make more money catering
Thats really not the point
You will make more haulin VIPs around PHX
I can make more money hauling garbage than
organizing BBQ Competitions
But I still do em
Its part of growing the sport

We wont be doing PC like we did last year again
OK

Thom, this is not about Stagecoach, OK? This is about doing PC at a 50/50 split. If you want to talk about Stagecoach, well, let's do that in another thread where we can focus on that particular topic.

Regarding the topic at hand, you have yet to refute my argument or bolster your own with any factual information or data. What I would like you to do is to specifically back up why you think PC works at a 50/50 split for everyone as you stated in an earlier post in this thread.

You are absolutely right that we will both make more money working at our primary occupations than we will as competitors or promoters. I also agree that we have to do things that will grow the sport of competition barbeque. What I propose is that we do it in such a way that one party isn't taking unfair advantage of the other. Competitors, promoters and judges all need each other in order for this sport to survive. Why ignore the issues that create tension rather than work on finding solutions for them? I choose to openly discuss and debate with the goal of reaching a workable solution rather than just sit back and not participate.

[ThomEmery]

Vince SC and Hesperia which had 100% payback in 2008 are the only PCs I have planned in 2009. I understand you are not being argumentative just wanting to talk about the whole PC concept. Thats a good thing

If a contest has a very low entry fee say $100 or less and hopes to see a little investment back in the 50/50 PC cash to help in the prize money I can see that

Its all evolving A couple of years ago I was told there "is NO WAY you can do PC here"
Now its common place

I am considering doing a raffle 100 tickets at $100 to raise $5000 in prize money
and a $5000 in prizes for the ticket holders LOL There is no way you can do that they said :)

[toys4dlr]

I really don't have a dog in this fight. But that said, I cooked at the Pulte event in Buckeye. We sold (more accurately my wife and kids) 207 tickets for the PC. That is $207 to us and $207 to the whom ever.

I cooked 4 butts ($45), 6 racks of ribs ($52) Chicken ($20) and 2 briskets ($50) So I had $172 in product and I was able to get rid of it. True, if and when I sell my cooking I will make more money but I like the PC.

For the spectators attending a BBQ event with out tasteing it is like watching grass grow. So I and my family like to interact with the people. Do I make a lot of money, no. But I can cover my food costs and have fun at the same time. This to us is still a hobby.