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View Full Version : Picnic Shoulder vs Butts


River City Smokehouse
01-04-2008, 08:54 AM
I always do the butts but am wanting to do a picnic this weekend for grins. I've not heard a lot of talk about this except someone once told me they thought the picnic was stronger tasting and they were not a fan of it. For those who do or have done them, what is the consistancy like in the meat on the picnic shoulders? The butts have both a dark and a whiter meat, do the picnics have that too?
Also, I am finding no picnics as of yet around here unless I order them ahead of time. Wally World so far is the only place that has them but of course they are enhanced. I really don't want a ham.

I know what's more common to cook in contest, of course it's a butt. Are we missing anything by not cooking the whole shoulder or just the picnic section along with a butt?

Bottles 'n Bones BBQ
01-04-2008, 09:00 AM
Butts! More versatile, less hassle...

...and get your mind out of the gutter. :biggrin:

Papa Hogg
01-04-2008, 09:05 AM
I really don't want a ham.


I have never done a picnic either but I've heard that it taste like ham & has the consistency of a ham.

Sam's had monster butts yesterday when I went to get my meat for this weekends cook, a package of 2 butts weighed 18 lbs. & both butts are almost the same size...Sweet!

Harbormaster
01-04-2008, 09:05 AM
I don't care for the flavor of picnics either.
Besides, I like telling people I'm cooking butts.

Greendriver
01-04-2008, 09:07 AM
this is a great subject in general and also great as a discussion for competetion cooking. I voted butts but really I don't have a real preference in that I never done picnics enough to know. I do know there are teams using picnics and have talked to at least one of them that was sold on the whole shoulders. I been thinking that I would love to do a combination of the two and try and find more variations of the chunks for the box that way. Well - I talked myself into it - it's a done deal now, next pork cook will be a picnic and a butt.

Brewmaster
01-04-2008, 09:34 AM
I voted for butt. Only because I have never cooked a shoulder. Maybe I should. I guess the only reason I haven't is because I don't see them in the store. I think I will. Jim, you have inspired me.

Nate

swamprb
01-04-2008, 09:42 AM
I'll go for the Picnic. Cook it like a butt, I leave the skin on, some recommend scoring or removing it, which I've tried and didn't care for. The ones I've cooked have been in the 8-9lb range and have never had one that tasted like Ham. I think the meat is sweeter tasting than butts with a lot of dark meat.

RichardF
01-04-2008, 09:54 AM
I've done both, but the butt's the choice for me for simplicity. When doing a picnic, I make sure to mix the meat together.

Edit - When I've done a picnic, it's been because I've done the shoulder.

Puppyboy
01-04-2008, 09:58 AM
I have just always done the butts.

WineMaster
01-04-2008, 10:02 AM
If wanting to test, why not do a Whole Shoulder. That will also test your ability to smoke 15-20 lb pieces of meat.

N8man
01-04-2008, 10:26 AM
I'll go for the Picnic. Cook it like a butt, I leave the skin on, some recommend scoring or removing it, which I've tried and didn't care for. The ones I've cooked have been in the 8-9lb range and have never had one that tasted like Ham. I think the meat is sweeter tasting than butts with a lot of dark meat.
I totally agree!!! If you're not gonna do a whole shoulder, the picnic is the one to smoke.

Jeff Wohlt
01-04-2008, 10:33 AM
Have you ever spoken or gone down to Weber Meats here in Jeff City? He has about anything you need or will get it fresh and cut it for you. Good meat but his prices are a bit high as well. He also carries Blues Hog. Mosers grocery also carries Blues Hog sauces....just an FYI. I like it but almost too sweet for me. I am more the Gates and Aurthur Bryants

bowhnter
01-04-2008, 10:44 AM
Butts only here too. Never cooked a picnic, and I guess I don't have the desire to.

chinesebob
01-04-2008, 11:31 AM
I don't care for the flavor of picnics either.
Besides, I like telling people I'm cooking butts.
cooking?

I like to tell them I'm firing up my girl to smoke some butts this weekend.


I can do either if by picnic do you mean New York Shoulder?

Mark
01-04-2008, 11:34 AM
I use both. No real preference. Picnics have more bone and some skin above the hock that to me is waste and is removed. So that factors in. Butts are less hassel. Picnics MAY be more economical.

Mo-Dave
01-04-2008, 11:48 AM
Hey Jim I like picnics. Not sure why some are saying they are more trouble. I cut the skin off, season it just like picnic and place it under the picnic its self. I use the skin later for seasoning other things. I also cut the fat cap off of butts so its about the same amount of work but I toss the fat cap.

I like the color of picnics and the taste, usually they are cheaper. I would give them a try. Whats life anyway if you don't play with your meat now and then. ;-)
Dave

Bill-Chicago
01-04-2008, 01:37 PM
Picnics are more readily available here, and the price can't be beat.

Read my comment #8 in THIS THREAD (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19713&highlight=picnic)to see the need to chop those two muscles lower on the hock

vr6Cop
01-04-2008, 01:40 PM
I've done a few picnics with decent results (in my back yard). I have never thought of cutting the skin off. I just smoked them intact. Maybe that's why the smoke didn't penetrate as much. :redface:

The picnics I did tasted more "porkish." Almost a hammy taste, if you know what I mean. The meat is definitely dark. I think next time I do one, I'll do as Mo-Dave suggests, but I'll also inject.

Around here, picnics run about a dollar cheaper per pound versus BB's.

All that being said, i just prefer the texture and taste of BB's. There is a recipe in Smoke & Spice specifically for picnic, and it is pretty decent.

jestridge
01-04-2008, 02:09 PM
I have done both , but i usually do butts. Picnic are cheaper per pound but you have skin and more bone. In Nov. I cook 8 fresh whole shoulder for my sister church they turn out great. Taste, can't tell much difference.

Sawdustguy
01-04-2008, 02:11 PM
Picnics taste chitty. I would rather cook a butt.

Greendriver
01-04-2008, 02:24 PM
Picnics are more readily available here, and the price can't be beat.

Read my comment #8 in THIS THREAD (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19713&highlight=picnic)to see the need to chop those two muscles lower on the hock

Thanks,

keale
01-04-2008, 02:56 PM
Fitzs, IMO, theres a "gamey" taste... not really bad, but I prefer the Butt...

broschultz
01-04-2008, 03:48 PM
On LI in NY the picnics are easy to find. Butts are harder to come by.

ggriffi
01-04-2008, 04:40 PM
I'll take the picnic over the bb everytime given a choice. Mainly cause I started cooking picnics first and then tried a butt and didn't really care for it. I leave the skin on when I cook it, too.

chad
01-04-2008, 04:46 PM
I feel butts are more economical (labor and $$$). I have nothing against doing a picnic, but would prefer the whole shoulder...the picnic definately has more waste and bone vs. useable meat.

A lot depends on preference and availablity. Heck, I like doing whole hog -- others would rather have a root canal with no anesthetic!!

Azinine
01-04-2008, 04:49 PM
IMO, picnics have too much fat and connective tissue. I prefer the consistency of the butt.

jestridge
01-04-2008, 07:53 PM
The picnic are nicer looking after they been smoke. I skin one at THANHSGIVING and put the skin on top of a deer ham it keep the vension moist

swamprb
01-04-2008, 11:35 PM
I'd love to try a whole shoulder, but I just never see them. All the butts are cut in two and cryovac'd. Picnics usually run 8-10lbs and if they get down to .99lb, I'm all over them! I've tried a couple Mojo marinated/injected picnics and just wasn't feeling it. I cooked a couple on the GOSM, but the flavor off the drum is excellent!
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t310/swamprb/100_1402.jpg

txschutte
01-04-2008, 11:44 PM
IMO, picnics have too much fat and connective tissue. I prefer the consistency of the butt.The connective tissue is the issue here. Also getting a consistent flavor in the shoulder is a PIA for me.

ChiliMacDaddy
01-05-2008, 12:03 AM
I've cooked both and I don't have a taste preference for one over the other.
There is less bone weight in a Boston cut so I usually cook those. But every now and then one of the local stores will sell Picnic cuts for crazy cheap. And then I stock up on them.

If you cook MIM events, you likely cook shoulders, which contain both cuts of pork. Those guys will mix from each end of the shoulder for their presentation.

CajunSmoker
01-05-2008, 06:51 AM
IMHO the best pulled pork (actually chopped pork) is a butt and a picnic smoked and pulled and chopped together.:cool: Then use this finishing sauce that KCQuer posted on another forum.

"The Finishing Sauce I use is as follows:

1 Cup Cider Vinegar
2 Tablespoons Brown Sugar
1 Teaspoon Tony Chachere's Cajun Seasoning
1 Teaspoon Course Black Pepper
1 Teaspoon Red Pepper Flakes

Warm the Vinegar up enough so that it disolves the Sugar well. Then add the remaining ingredients.

I use it in one of those clear Ketchup bottles you can get from Wally World for about $0.99. Snip a little bit larger hole out of the spout with a pair of scissors. Once all your ingredients are mixed together, put your finger over the top, and shake vigorously.

Randomly squirt this over warm freshly pulled Pork, then kind of mix it up with gloved hands. This adds very little heat (despite the Red Pepper) and mellows out the stronger, gamier parts of the Shoulder. The Vinegar also helps break it down even more for some REAL juiicy pork."

Yummo:biggrin:

BBQ_MAFIA
01-05-2008, 07:45 AM
I think the Butt makes better pulled pork.
However, when the picnics are on sale at the local store
I always get a few.

MattCom
01-05-2008, 08:05 AM
I've done both and I prefer the BB b/c of less waste (bone, cartilage and interior fat). Picnics are everywhere around here, so often out of laziness I will use it. Who am I kidding? I'll chow down on either.

Can someone elaborate on the "Stink Vein" in the picnic? It was mentioned here a few weeks back? can it be removed? does it actually exist or is it a conspiracy created by the Boston Butt to discredit the Picnic?
I've never seen it and haven't made one since reading about it.

Peace and chicken grease.

jestridge
01-05-2008, 09:00 AM
Never heard of a stink vein been eating hog meat for years. I did a shoulder that had bee cure back in the fall it turn out ok a bit salty but a cure shoulder or ham cook a lot faster.

Greendriver
01-05-2008, 09:05 AM
Just poke around in there long enough and if there is one there you'll find it, and it do look gruesome, kinda like an air bubble with blood n guts inside. When you find it you'll know how to get it out cause you won't be able to help yourself if you want to cook that piece of meat.

smoke-n-my-i's
01-05-2008, 10:31 AM
I have done a couple of shoulders. I mainly do bb's now. What I have found is that the shoulders have a lot more fat, skin and a lot more waste.

I can not comment on the taste as I can not eat it. Stupid allergy.... try cooking for a comp and not be able to even taste it.... what a handicap huh?

So, for what my meekly knowledge is, I vote for butts.

Bill-Chicago
01-05-2008, 08:08 PM
I have cooked a ton of picnics, and several boston butts.

I would be willing to bet that 90% of you would not be able to distinguish the finished product from each other.

The other 10%, are just good guessers.

Like I said, as long as you chop that 5% of the picnic not pullable, its the same darn thing.

And if you think it's hammy, then you rubbed it with a salt rub WAY too early. Rub a picnic 3 minutes before going in the smoker.

Its the same discussion as "hammy" spares because the rub was applied too early.

The distance between the butt and the picnic is REALLY small.

Some of your boston butt, has the same lower muscles as the picnic.

You picnic, has the same upper muscles as the butt.

Only difference is the lower picnic muscles, which need chopping.

Rookie'48
01-05-2008, 08:41 PM
Bill -

If I use a rub with very little salt, can I apply the rub the night before? I like to do the rub, inject like crazy, put it in a ziplock or Saran Wrap overnight, then in the smoker in the early A.M.

Bill-Chicago
01-05-2008, 09:51 PM
Bill -

If I use a rub with very little salt, can I apply the rub the night before? I like to do the rub, inject like crazy, put it in a ziplock or Saran Wrap overnight, then in the smoker in the early A.M.

Wait,
I sounded like an expert.

For me, and I mean, for me, I have had nothing but problems with spares tasting like ham (hammy)

Some of the folks here asked if I rubbed the night before, or right before the cook.

I usually do the night before.

I use comeercial rub, and alot have salt, even if you wouldnt think so.

So on picnics and spares, I never rub the nigth before. After following this advise from Brethren, I get perfect picnics, and my spares are on the road to greatness (backyard greatness)


I never inject, but thats just me.

I could see a whole new level of experimenting with injecting though

Good luck on your results Rook, and hope you (and I) recall this thread at a later date to post pluses and minuses to the picnic vs butt prep

Azinine
01-05-2008, 11:58 PM
I would be willing to bet that 90% of you would not be able to distinguish the finished product from each other.

The other 10%, are just good guessers.

I'd take the bet. Would you be willing to give me 9-1 odds? :biggrin:

Bill-Chicago
01-06-2008, 12:02 AM
I'd take the bet. Would you be willing to give me 9-1 odds? :biggrin:
No, I am not a betting man

40-1 odds would be more in order.

And if I leave out that chopped muscle near the hock, 1000-1, since it will then be identical.

I know there is a posted diagram here, which shows the near identical cuts.

I'll try and find it

QansasjayhawQ
01-06-2008, 12:28 AM
I voted for butt. Only because I have never cooked a shoulder. Maybe I should. I guess the only reason I haven't is because I don't see them in the store.
I voted for shoulder. Only because I have never cooked a butt. Maybe I should. I guess the only reason I haven't is because I don't see them in the store. At least pork butts anyway . . .

rprata
01-06-2008, 10:10 AM
Always do butts. Never done a picnic, not in a hurry to try. I love me some butts :biggrin:

River City Smokehouse
01-06-2008, 10:18 AM
I should have just added the pron to this post but I thought it was done. Here are the pics.
Pork Shoulder (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35832)

Bbq Bubba
01-06-2008, 10:19 AM
Butt's, picnic's or whole shoulder's............???
Smoked properly and it's all the same thing!! :cool:

Mike Y
07-12-2008, 09:17 AM
Since nobody has posted in this thread since my birthday, I'll chime in.

I know nothing. I've done two picnics and no butts. Everyone loved the picnics tossed with some Fat Johnny style sauce so I thought I figured it all out right away. :biggrin: But now that I've read a couple threads here and seen the 57 to 5 poll, I have to try butts :!:

So, if we loved the picnics, we're going to be really impressed with the butts, right :?:

Here's a pictorial on my first smoke of picnics. http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/showthread.php?t=598070

jestridge
07-12-2008, 09:20 AM
I like picnic ok
They look good when you smoke them. But I usually do butt. I think taste is about same

dmprantz
07-12-2008, 02:59 PM
I don't think I ever chimed in on this. I used to only cook picnics, and the skin is nice, but these days I like butts more. I just think they cook up nicer and there is less waste IMHO.

I was organizing the deep freeze last night though, and one thing that I was reminded about which goes in the favour of Picnics: I can buy a single picnic in the cryovac. I only ever see double butts still in the cryovac...so if you're like me and like buying/freezing meat in the cryovac but have the opportunity to only cook one roast, picnic is an option there. My FIL gets butts single vaced I think, but I don't know where to get those around here...

dmp

Brian in So Cal
07-12-2008, 07:41 PM
I smoke the butts. Like them best.

Fastball
07-12-2008, 08:37 PM
Well, I've done a ton of both, and when I do pulled pork (for myself and my occasional catering gigs), I always use the picnic shoulder.

People like sweet, and I believe the picnic makes a sweeter product. There is definitely more connective tissue in the picnic, if you cook it to 195 I guarantee you that it will break down into sugars, thus a sweeter meat. Willkat is correct though, most couldn't tell the difference....but I'm a firm believer in firm believing....and that's my belief.

And that's all I got to say about that.