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Montana Jack
06-03-2018, 10:31 PM
Last couple flats on Shirley have great flavor and tender, but not as moist as I'd like. Injecting before cooking at 275, wrapping in butcher paper at 175, and pulling and resting at 200+. Water pan in smoker and spritzing after 3 hours. Any thoughts on how to make jucier?

aerotech11
06-03-2018, 10:41 PM
How was it probing when you pulled it? Temps for reference I usually pull it when it probes like butter regardless of the final temp.

sudsandswine
06-03-2018, 10:45 PM
^^^ disregard temp, kinda.

Whenever I cook briskets at 275* as the median temp on my stick burner, they generally probe tender in the thickest part of the flat around 210*, sometimes more. I use my ThermoWorks thermometer as the probe, which is why I know the finish temp, but I stopped giving the temp any consideration when I pull. If I had to guess you're undercooked.

SmittyJonz
06-03-2018, 10:55 PM
possibly cook it a lil Longer and/or buy better briskets.......how long did you rest it?

Montana Jack
06-03-2018, 11:10 PM
Will cook try cooking longer, briskets were Costco prime. Thanks for the help

frognot
06-04-2018, 02:50 AM
Maybe wrap sooner (160 or so).

Tatanka
06-04-2018, 04:00 AM
As has been said above, it's not time and temp, it's how the meat feels when probed. We don't know how lean that flat was when you got it or when you put it in the smoker, in other words how much fat there was to render off to flavor and keep the meat juicy. The flats I've seen have been pretty lean, so I'd wrap it tight in heavy duty, wide aluminum foil instead of butcher paper to trap in whatever melting fat there is, the collagen as it breaks down, and the remaining moisture in the meat. If I wanted to smoke only a flat, like maybe because my smoker space can't handle a whole packer brisket, I'd still by the packer and separate the flat from the point myself so I could control the amount of fat left on the flat by how I trimmed it.

pjtexas1
06-04-2018, 05:54 AM
With BP I wrap fat cap up. This has the flat sitting in juices. I think it helps a little. Seeing that you wrap at 175 your bark should be set enough to hold up.

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Demosthenes9
06-05-2018, 09:56 PM
Did your slices crumble ? Or were they kind of tough to pull apart ?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzseH_Wiha4

CentralOhioBBQ
06-05-2018, 10:05 PM
Try wrapping earlier, 160ish. Forget the spritzer. Take the thick of the flat to 208-212 range and probe for feel.

You undercooked your brisket (unless it fell apart when you were slicing).

el luchador
06-05-2018, 10:28 PM
Last couple flats on Shirley have great flavor and tender, but not as moist as I'd like. Injecting before cooking at 275, wrapping in butcher paper at 175, and pulling and resting at 200+. Water pan in smoker and spritzing after 3 hours. Any thoughts on how to make jucier?

at 175 it had probably already exited the stall and lost a lot of moisture.

try wrapping at 140-145 and ill bet it wont come out dry.

Montana Jack
06-06-2018, 12:26 AM
Thanks all, will try wrapping earlier and pay more attention to feel, maybe pulling at higher temp.

m-fine
06-06-2018, 05:03 AM
Thanks all, will try wrapping earlier and pay more attention to feel, maybe pulling at higher temp.

This is not a path to success.

There is no need to wrap at all, and wrapping earlier isnít going to magically cure the problem. You can dry out brisket wrapped in foil or even submerged in liquid. That is why injecting isnít helping you either. If you want to inject for flavor, go ahead, but donít expect injecting or wrapping to keep the meat fibers juicy. You were heading in the right direction with paying more attention to feel, but pulling at a higher temp, or any temp target, is a not going to help.

Try this. Start the cook hotter, 275-300 for full packers. Get to the 175-180 range like you did, and then wrap (or not, but it may help to keep the variables to a minimum until you figure it out). Now lower the smoker temp to 225-250 ish and let the connective tissues break down without over heating and drying the meat. Forget pulling temp. You pull based on feel only. Then give it a good long rest in a cooler or holding oven. It will continue to tenderize. If anything, a longer cook/hold with a lower max internal temperature will give you a juicier product than rushing it and pulling at higher temps.

pjtexas1
06-06-2018, 05:57 AM
M-fine... Stop giving away ninja's brisket secrets. :heh:

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el luchador
06-06-2018, 07:27 AM
I will guarantee that op uses the method m-fine suggested and the brisket comes out even worse.

Imho


Here is a video that has tested it
https://youtu.be/DK2ugDR-G2I

nachos4life
06-06-2018, 07:36 AM
I cook hundreds of pounds of briskets on my Shirley all the time. They are always juicy. The main thing you need to do is just be patient and wait until that thing probes tender. probably more tender than you many think. Then let it rest.

We cook hot. we spritz. We wrap in foil. We add a baste liquid to the foil. But all that isn't necessary, its just what we do.

m-fine
06-06-2018, 07:57 AM
I will guarantee that op uses the method m-fine suggested and the brisket comes out even worse.

Imho


Here is a video that has tested it
https://youtu.be/DK2ugDR-G2I

LOL! Have you EVER cooked ANYTHING yourself? It seems your cooking experience is limited to watching YouTube.

el luchador
06-06-2018, 08:04 AM
LOL! Have you EVER cooked ANYTHING yourself? It seems your cooking experience is limited to watching YouTube.

Lol I've posted more brisket pics than you ever have, since your brisket pic post rate is zero.

CentralOhioBBQ
06-06-2018, 08:10 AM
I disagree with both EL and M-fine. Neither one knows anything about brisket (joking).

KISS. Keep doing what you're doing but maybe wrap a bit earlier and pull closer to 210/and/or when its probing easier than you likley think. It took me awhile to get accustomed to how buttery you want it to probe, i felt like i was overcooking it. Then rest 1-hr+.

You'll get it. report back..

smoke ninja
06-06-2018, 09:20 AM
Try this. Start the cook hotter, 275-300 for full packers. Get to the 175-180 range like you did, and then wrap (or not, but it may help to keep the variables to a minimum until you figure it out). Now lower the smoker temp to 225-250 ish and let the connective tissues break down without over heating and drying the meat. Forget pulling temp. You pull based on feel only. Then give it a good long rest in a cooler or holding oven. It will continue to tenderize. If anything, a longer cook/hold with a lower max internal temperature will give you a juicier product than rushing it and pulling at higher temps.

M-fine... Stop giving away ninja's brisket secrets. :heh:

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That is really close to the ninja method. I wonder if he's a member of the league of shadows. :spy:

I will guarantee that op uses the method m-fine suggested and the brisket comes out even worse.

Imho


Here is a video that has tested it
https://youtu.be/DK2ugDR-G2I

Fun experiment. Seems to make sense one was wrapped too early the other too late. The goldilocks brisket won?

M-fine laid out a very successful brisket technique. I know because it's close to what I do. One of the keys is to finish at a lower temp. This gives a large window for being perfect. It also prevents the perfectly done brisket from carrying over while holding. The guy in the video didn't vent so off a hot pit and into a cooler overcooked it and it dried out. I finish so low that the paper wrapped brisket goes straight into the hold and doesn't carryover.

The hold is the second part. These briskets finish in the 190s and then get held still wrapped for about about 4 hrs or more. This makes for a very tender and moist brisket. The added benefit is timing is easy with hours of cushion time.

Oh and I'm not scared to show my flat


http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l520/smokeninjabbq/brisket/20151122_113039_zps04chwela.jpg (http://s1121.photobucket.com/user/smokeninjabbq/media/brisket/20151122_113039_zps04chwela.jpg.html)

http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l520/smokeninjabbq/brisket/20170604_143004_zpsjkow3etv.jpg (http://s1121.photobucket.com/user/smokeninjabbq/media/brisket/20170604_143004_zpsjkow3etv.jpg.html)

http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l520/smokeninjabbq/brisket/20151017_123950_zpsl4deq8gj.jpg (http://s1121.photobucket.com/user/smokeninjabbq/media/brisket/20151017_123950_zpsl4deq8gj.jpg.html)

el luchador
06-06-2018, 10:12 AM
@smoke ninja,

good post, and great pics!
can you post a link to your brisket technique again. I haven't seen it in a while but I thought you recommended wrapping after 4 hours?

smoke ninja
06-06-2018, 10:51 AM
@smoke ninja,

good post, and great pics!
can you post a link to your brisket technique again. I haven't seen it in a while but I thought you recommended wrapping after 4 hours?

I may have mentioned 4-6 hrs but its probably more like 6-8 hrs. I've never been able to really pin down in a post a precise method. Here's 2 examples.

https://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=219158

https://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=247399

m-fine
06-06-2018, 11:00 AM
FYI, just looked up my notes on Franklin’s timing.

Brisket prep starts at 8:00 am, and they hit the smoke at 10:00 am. They get wrapped about 9 hours later at 7:00 pm and then at some point they move from the smoker to a holding oven. Serving starts at 11:00 am so 27 hours after prep starts and a full 25 hours after they hit the heat. You can make good brisket in under 10 hours, but if you want world class great brisket, I don’t think there is a better way than giving it time.

I don’t have any info on what time temp and humidity he is using in the holding ovens. If anyone knows, please share!

sudsandswine
06-06-2018, 11:02 AM
I may have mentioned 4-6 hrs but its probably more like 6-8 hrs. I've never been able to really pin down in a post a precise method. Here's 2 examples.

https://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=219158

https://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=247399

May have to try that sometime on smaller cooks. I dont mind getting up early and finishing briskets by 1 or 2 PM, but by the time I give it a hold its dinner time and sometimes I want it for lunch. Running the Shirley for 5 or 6 hours in the evening and then finishing lower in the oven with a hold would be perfect for serving lunch without having to vacuum seal and reheat.

sthamm
06-06-2018, 11:15 AM
I may have mentioned 4-6 hrs but its probably more like 6-8 hrs. I've never been able to really pin down in a post a precise method. Here's 2 examples.

https://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=219158

https://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=247399

Great idea using a turkey roaster as a holding oven! Is this the same one? https://www.amazon.com/Oster-Roaster-Self-Basting-Quart-CKSTRS18-BSB-W/dp/B00CQLJESU/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1528301679&sr=8-4&keywords=turkey+roaster

smoke ninja
06-06-2018, 11:17 AM
May have to try that sometime on smaller cooks. I dont mind getting up early and finishing briskets by 1 or 2 PM, but by the time I give it a hold its dinner time and sometimes I want it for lunch. Running the Shirley for 5 or 6 hours in the evening and then finishing lower in the oven with a hold would be perfect for serving lunch without having to vacuum seal and reheat.


Yup that was my goal to start. I don't like to eat brisket for dinner, it's too heavy. Staying up all night or getting up at 4am wasn't cutting it either. I always say the best method is one that works but also one you can enjoy.

Here's another example post as well as a poll on brisket holding with some good advice.

https://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=232173

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=254798

At the end of the day do what works for you.

Steve S
06-06-2018, 11:23 AM
I am certainly no expert, but I have made smoked some very good brisket in 6-7 hours. As has been mentioned, cooking hotter with give you a smaller window to pull it at the right time, but there are several ways to get there. Says this guy with only one brisket pic....

smoke ninja
06-06-2018, 11:28 AM
Great idea using a turkey roaster as a holding oven! Is this the same one? https://www.amazon.com/Oster-Roaster-Self-Basting-Quart-CKSTRS18-BSB-W/dp/B00CQLJESU/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1528301679&sr=8-4&keywords=turkey+roaster

Yes that's it. The analog dial is key. It's good for holding and finishing small amounts of Q of any type even ribs and chicken. I even use it to slow cook and hold prime rib. Very handy tool. Pitmaster T dubbed it "the big lie"

m-fine
06-06-2018, 11:35 AM
I am certainly no expert, but I have made smoked some very good brisket in 6-7 hours. As has been mentioned, cooking hotter with give you a smaller window to pull it at the right time, but there are several ways to get there. Says this guy with only one brisket post....

It definitely can be done very well hot and fast. Depending on timing and desired serving time I will cook them fast as well (too old for all nighters these days!). Heck, my braised briskets are usually closer to 5 hours. I just think my absolute best results on the smoker have come from longer cooks with a long hold. Plus I think it is easier and more consistent. Also, a long hold is probably more forgiving of a beginner who pulls a bit too early.

Steve S
06-06-2018, 11:41 AM
It definitely can be done very well hot and fast. Depending on timing and desired serving time I will cook them fast as well (too old for all nighters these days!). Heck, my braised briskets are usually closer to 5 hours. I just think my absolute best results on the smoker have come from longer cooks with a long hold. Plus I think it is easier and more consistent. Also, a long hold is probably more forgiving of a beginner who pulls a bit too early.

All true statements. My setup does not lend itself very well to all-night cooks unattended, and Im too old to stay up all night. I prefer to get an early start and get things going, and adjust as necessary for serving time, using a longer hold if necessary.

Bob C Cue
06-06-2018, 12:08 PM
Most of you guys are BBQ posers who wouldn't know a properly cooked brisket if it smacked you in the face. I on the other hand nail them time after time with one arm tied behind my back. Here is one of my typical perfectly smoked briskies! Eat your heart out guys.

smoke ninja
06-06-2018, 12:53 PM
http://i.imgur.com/GEcJHEjh.jpg (http://imgur.com/GEcJHEj)