Can food that's been too long in the Danger Zone be rehabbed

[Blue Kettle]

I did a pork loin sous vide Friday night/Saturday morning. It spent 10 hours in the sous vide bath at 142. I didn't preheat my water because I figured it wouldn't be a big deal. The water temp didn't get to 130 until about 30 minutes after the meat had been in there (I underestimated how hard it would be for the Anova to get that much water to temp).

Then, when I took it out in the morning, I noticed the bags had floated on me overnight so the very tippy top of the meat was poking out of the water a bit. Also, I further compounded the potential issues by going straight to the fridge with them for about 30 minutes before I remembered I needed to put them in an ice bath to get them out of the food danger zone.

Now the plan was to smoke them at 325 for 2 hours today. But I wonder, is there any point? Has this meat endured too many flub ups on my part?

What do you think? The whole food "Danger Zone" thing is a bit of a mystery to me (prior to getting into sous vide I'd always just cooked USDA recommended internal temp and not spent much time worrying about the danger zone). I get that bacteria rapidly grows in the danger zone, but if you are cooking it again, what's the difference? Won't the subsequent cook just kill that new growth? Am I just asking for gastro problems or worse if I actually eat this?

Thanks ya'all.

[Smoking Piney]

I don't sous vide, but I do subscribe to "when in doubt, pitch it".

Food poisoning isn't my idea of fun.......better safe than very sorry.

[Mikhail]

Pork loin is inexpensive. Don't risk it. I doubt there is a very high risk but I suspect you will not be able to enjoy yourself serving your Q, and that would be a tragedy.

(this from the guy who thinks nothing of nibbling raw meat and fish)

[Joshw]

oxygen depleted moist environment, such as your vacuum bag, is a perfect breeding ground for bacteria. I am sure you could boil it long enough, to kill the bacteria, but hte meat would suck, and why take the risk?

[SmoothBoarBBQ]

I had to look into this but what you're missing is that the pathogens or bacteria which are accumulating on the meat produce toxins which are heat resistant. So just because you're re-heating it doesn't mean you'll get rid of all the toxins which can make you sick. As they always say "When in doubt, throw it out." Here's a link for some further reading.

https://www.fsis.usda.gov/shared/PDF/How_Temperatures_Affect_Food.pdf

[Sodaking27]

My rule - When in doubt, throw it out..

[zippy12]

oxygen depleted moist environment, such as your vacuum bag, is a perfect breeding ground for bacteria. I am sure you could boil it long enough, to kill the bacteria, but hte meat would suck, and why take the risk?

Umm its not the botulism that kills you its the byproduct of the process... its a one time trip!

[Blue Kettle]

I had to look into this but what you're missing is that the pathogens or bacteria which are accumulating on the meat produce toxins which are heat resistant. So just because you're re-heating it doesn't mean you'll get rid of all the toxins which can make you sick. As they always say "When in doubt, throw it out." Here's a link for some further reading.

https://www.fsis.usda.gov/shared/PDF/How_Temperatures_Affect_Food.pdf

Thank you. That makes sense. I hadn't considered that aspect of it. All the articles about sous vide and how it can be safe at such low temp always talk about bacteria breeding. I hadn't seen anything that pointed out this second order concern of the actual byproducts of the bacteria being the real issue.

I think I'll probably pitch it and chalk it up to a learning experience. As was mentioned upthread, the loin was pretty cheap.

[smoke ninja]

While im not sure what the problem is and i think your over thinking things, no once food goes bad it cant be fixed

[Czarbecue]

My parents are from third world Vietnam and still carry some of their habits even though they have been in the states for over 35 years. I still come to their house and help myself to food sitting out on the stove or in the microwave for hours. Food safety? I don't think it is in their vocabulary.

If this is just for yourself, I'll say, "If it doesn't smell, then what the hell..."

[Blue Kettle]

Oh god. I just threw it in the trash. Before I did I cut into it to just see how it was done. It was so juicy and smoky (I had gone through with the smoking of it after my initial post above). I'm sort of hating myself right now.

The good news is though, since we didn't get to eat any of it there's no reason not to turn right around and make it again next weekend, this time following all proper safety protocols (especially making sure the meat stays submerged in the sous vide bath).

[Yellowhair42]

Sous vide doesn't go by "conventional" reasoning. http://douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html

[Ruben Cortinas]

Trash it, live to cook another Day

[wihint]

My parents are from third world Vietnam and still carry some of their habits even though they have been in the states for over 35 years. I still come to their house and help myself to food sitting out on the stove or in the microwave for hours. Food safety? I don't think it is in their vocabulary.

If this is just for yourself, I'll say, "If it doesn't smell, then what the hell..."

LOL when I was in DC I had about 120 Vietnamese employees in the kitchen there. They would literally laugh when we went over proper food handling techniques. They were absolutely awesome and made amazing food but would only follow the rules when they were at work. I never had any stomach issues at the potluck meals for any occasion and had some killer food to say the least. Apparently fish sauce, chili. garlic and love will kill most toxins.....

That being said when in doubt dump it out!

[BillN]

It's best to trust your instincts , you were right to toss it.

[IamMadMan]

If I have to think about the safety of the food, I toss it without a second thought.

I think you did the right thing.......

Sous vide food safety
https://www.thekitchn.com/how-safe-is-sous-vide-cooking-229843

Read the following when you have time.
https://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/food-technology/bacterial-food-poisoning/

and info on USDA Food Safety Zones
https://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/portal/fsis/topics/food-safety-education/get-answers/food-safety-fact-sheets/safe-food-handling/danger-zone-40-f-140-f/CT_Index

https://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/wcm/connect/625d9435-4f14-46fe-b207-5d6688cb4db5/Safe_Miminum_Internal_Temperature_Chart.pdf?MOD=AJ PERES

[THoey1963]

My Asian wife leaves things out overnight too. But if it's something I am going to eat, it has to go in the fridge. There's been times when we put leftovers in the microwave to rest and forgot it until the next day. If it's for me, it's tossed. For her, it's still good. I have never had food poisoning, I don't believe she has either. But I am less likely to risk it than she is...

[Czarbecue]

Damn, am I also the only one who takes alcohol with my Tylenol? :heh:

[One Drop]

I traveled a bit in Vietnam, the whole country eats fresh food and very little industrialised product, typically a housewife will shop at the market time a day to pick up the freshly butchered meat or caught seafood, veg, and such. It is an extraordinary system that delivers the most astonishing array of the freshest and highest quality ingredients to the table.

That said, I have heard recently there are a lot of shenanigans going on as well, but I din't see any at the time.

Because of this they don't have the chronic bacterial issues that giant factory farming produces as in the USA, where cross contamination and antibiotic treatments to counter the ridiculous slaughterhouse practices are necessary, for example.

[Norm]

I never take any chances with meat that might be bad, I've had food poisoning twice. Only time I've ever been to the ER... you did the right thing by tossing it. My hospital bill would have paid for a lot of fresh meat.

[medic92]

Something to also remember is that these Vietnamese folks that laugh at the food safety rules have been eating their way since birth and their immune systems are probably able to resist levels of foodborne pathogens that would land us in the emergency room.

[ModelMaker]

I've seen the results of food poisoning, my dad had a seafood sampler platter and got deathly sick afterwords. The only thing new to him was oysters, he never passed one over his lips again just to be safe. Years later my brother got into some oyster stew and had the same results.
Me being a eater of everything took notice and have avoided oysters like the plague. I enjoy all other shell fish without problems so sometimes I wonder. We were in South padre TX a few weeks ago and one of the local joints had deep fried oysters for $.50 a piece, really considered it but still passed out of fear.
I settled for fresh gulf shrimp at $4.50 a 1/2 lb with $2.50 Margaritas.
Ed

[NickTheGreat]

I'm usually not in the "throw it out" camp. I mean, you can't believe everything you read, right???

But in your case, I'd probably have thrown it out. You weren't teetering on the edge, you jumped over it!

[Gore]

I traveled a bit in Vietnam, the whole country eats fresh food and very little industrialised product, typically a housewife will shop at the market time a day to pick up the freshly butchered meat or caught seafood, veg, and such. It is an extraordinary system that delivers the most astonishing array of the freshest and highest quality ingredients to the table.

That said, I have heard recently there are a lot of shenanigans going on as well, but I din't see any at the time.

Because of this they don't have the chronic bacterial issues that giant factory farming produces as in the USA, where cross contamination and antibiotic treatments to counter the ridiculous slaughterhouse practices are necessary, for example.

My parents are from third world Vietnam and still carry some of their habits even though they have been in the states for over 35 years. I still come to their house and help myself to food sitting out on the stove or in the microwave for hours. Food safety? I don't think it is in their vocabulary.

If this is just for yourself, I'll say, "If it doesn't smell, then what the hell..."

I have a Vietnamese friend who taught me to cook a bit. I remember going over to his house one day and he had a rice dish sitting out on the counter that his aunt made him. I can't remember how long it was sitting there but he explained to me that at that stage, botulism forms and if you eat it, you will die; however, if you wait few more days, then it begins to ferment and the alcohol kills the botulism and it it is great. He opened his refrigerator and had another container in there and asked me if I wanted any. I politely turned him down this time. It left me with so many questions, like who decided to try it again after a few more days when it killed off half the family?