PDA

View Full Version : Done with the stick burners


Pages : [1] 2

el luchador
12-04-2017, 04:37 PM
yes, ive been cooking with wood recently, trying to love it, but cant.

clean burning wood taste is a very mild flavor, just like charcoal so no advantage to the wood burner,

BUT,
-the woodburner requires constant attention,
-temperature ranges are Ī75 degrees , instead of Ī5 degrees on the charcoal burner
-have to buy the wood and then age it for months
-cant put food on the cooker and leave and do something else. I feel like Im either adding wood or adjusting intake every 30 minutes.

yes, Im pretty much done with wood burners as I have found no value added.

Im going back to the charcoal UDS where you can fill up the bag, set the ATC, add a couple of chunks, and cook low and slow for 15 hours, hardly touching the cooker

angryelfFan
12-04-2017, 04:48 PM
Stick Burners aren't for everyone.

SmittyJonz
12-04-2017, 04:55 PM
You just joined the Thoey63 Club - now sell the stickburner and buy an LSG IVC.

JDM46
12-04-2017, 04:57 PM
You have presented your case well.
Imo cooking is supposed to be relaxing and enjoyable.

Stlsportster
12-04-2017, 05:00 PM
Yep. In fact it's even easier to do Ribs in the crockpot and brisket in the oven. No added benefit to have to even go outside. Little liquid smoke and you're good to go.

Don't know why it took me so long to see the truth!!

:tongue:

16Adams
12-04-2017, 05:03 PM
Oh My

mchar69
12-04-2017, 05:07 PM
yes, ive been cooking with wood recently, trying to love it, but cant.

MODS, PLEASE BAN THE OP!!!

Actually, I'm kidding, a UDS is what I use, set it and forget it.

Czarbecue
12-04-2017, 05:09 PM
So what are you going to do with your Pecos?

gtr
12-04-2017, 05:14 PM
Cooking should be enjoyable, so do what you gotta do!

pjtexas1
12-04-2017, 05:16 PM
At least you didn't spend a lot of money on the Pecos.

Somebody better get the word out to all those BBQ joints that are doing it wrong. :boxing:

Just kidding. Have to applaud you just a little bit for not being afraid of the backlash. Hopefully you have a good sense of humor.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

16Adams
12-04-2017, 05:17 PM
MODS, PLEASE BAN THE OP!!!

Actually, I'm kidding, a UDS is what I use, set it and forget it.

I sold mine too. My reasons were No skills or patience. A beer or two every 30-45 minutes matching sticks wasnít healthy

gtr
12-04-2017, 05:18 PM
^^^if I could limit myself to a beer or 2 every 30-45 minutes I could still be drinking. :wacko:

SDAR
12-04-2017, 05:23 PM
Iím going back to stick burning. Iíve been through them all and still have the drums and the egg. I can understand where you are. Iíve been there. I still am in certain situations. Looking forward to getting another stick burner now.

ssv3
12-04-2017, 06:17 PM
A lot of work but the payoff is totally worth it and it's FUN. Best bbq for me is off the stick burner so I'll always have one in the mix. With that said, my stick burner season is fall through spring. I don't like tending the fire during those hot arse summer months so I use my other cookers. Like mentioned above though, it's not for everyone. Good luck!

Beentown
12-04-2017, 06:20 PM
I do both. Prefer the taste and capacity of my stickburner but like to sleep while my UDS does it's thing. My business partners Humphreys is also pretty convienent. My new Assassin will be a nice addition.

Different strokes for different folks. I like all strokes of bbq.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

mikemci
12-04-2017, 06:26 PM
You can no longer fly the Texas flag at your place.

Mikhail
12-04-2017, 06:31 PM
^^^if I could limit myself to a beer or 2 every 30-45 minutes I could still be drinking. :wacko:

I used to be able to PUT IT AWAY. My dad would say 'I can only have one, maybe two, before they don't taste good' and I thought how silly. Beer tastes good all day!

Now I am the same way. Haven't drank more than three beers in decades.

Now wine, THAT I can still put away, cognac or bourbon too, but I will pay for it dearly.

Notorious Q.U.E.
12-04-2017, 06:31 PM
Pitmaker Vault! True stickburning with set and forget. I cooked lunch over a baby fire and I’m still holding 200 six hours later, I’m curious how long it’ll go before dropping, it’s 34 degrees outside BTW

pjtexas1
12-04-2017, 06:35 PM
You can no longer fly the Texas flag at your place.I nearly fell off the couch. :thumb:

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

JokerBroker
12-04-2017, 06:36 PM
Nothing ruins one's desire to cook with a stick burner like a COS. The truth is, it's not for everyone. Most of my friends think I am crazy to get it up in the middle of the night to tend to a fire. That is until they eat the food. What they don't understand is that I find enjoyment in the process but even I don't want to do it all of the time which is why I own a BGE. Both tools produce great BBQ but I take a lot of satisfaction in being able to cook with a wood fire. My best BBQ comes off of the stick burner according to everyone who eats it.

BillN
12-04-2017, 06:39 PM
On the positive side you have so many options to produce the Que you love.

Ed Embry
12-04-2017, 06:49 PM
A lot of work but the payoff is totally worth it and it's FUN. Best bbq for me is off the stick burner so I'll always have one in the mix. With that said, my stick burner season is fall through spring. I don't like tending the fire during those hot arse summer months so I use my other cookers. Like mentioned above though, it's not for everyone. Good luck!

Exactly my feelings. I started out with a Backwoods Party (still have) then a Fatboy, then a Pro Jr. One day I tasted some que that was cooked on a Gator and mine eyes were opened lol. Significantly better than what I had been cooking. :thumb:

kevin-ct
12-04-2017, 07:21 PM
First came the Big Green Egg. I was mad everyday that I had to goto work and not cook on the Egg. Then came the Lang, 8 cooks so far, still not 100% it's for me. Like it was said, you have to micromanage the sticks and temps. On the Egg, set it and walk away. Then the stick burner does give you the excuse that I can't do any house chores :-D

Czarbecue
12-04-2017, 07:23 PM
I got less flak for using a mayo slather on my brisket.

SmittyJonz
12-04-2017, 07:29 PM
I only use a Stickburner at The Texas Bashes, rest of time I use my Masterbuilt Electric.......

ClintHTX
12-04-2017, 07:34 PM
I think the reason why I never fell into the phase of not liking my stick burner because I learned to not sweat the small stuff from the start. I cook at a temp range. If it’s too hot it’ll be done quicker too cool it’ll take longer. I let it do it’s thing and that’s what I enjoy. Don’t get me wrong...losing sleep sucks. But it’s what I enjoy and that’s why I do it.

CptKaos
12-04-2017, 07:36 PM
I only use a Stickburner at The Texas Bashes, rest of time I use my Masterbuilt Electric.......

Eager to test my theory I see :)

Larry

4ever3
12-04-2017, 07:37 PM
Different strokes...

If everyone liked stick burners there’d be no other type of cookers sold.

el luchador
12-04-2017, 07:44 PM
Cooking should be enjoyable, so do what you gotta do!
yes sir!

At least you didn't spend a lot of money on the Pecos.

Somebody better get the word out to all those BBQ joints that are doing it wrong. :boxing:

Just kidding. Have to applaud you just a little bit for not being afraid of the backlash. Hopefully you have a good sense of humor.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

thanks.
in actuality, from what Ive heard/ read, the true bbq was using embers, not wood - and this wood deal is fairly new?

I sold mine too. My reasons were No skills or patience. A beer or two every 30-45 minutes matching sticks wasnít healthy

Amen.

Iím going back to stick burning. Iíve been through them all and still have the drums and the egg. I can understand where you are. Iíve been there. I still am in certain situations. Looking forward to getting another stick burner now.

this is my second try stick burning. first try I was using a POS(pitiful offset) and went to the UGLY DRUM. the first cook I did on the drum was the best cook I had ever done but I felt like the smoke was light on it. so after a while of great que on the drum I built a vertical stick burner, and felt the smoke was light, so to make sure it wasnt the drum, I bought an decent offset smoker, and what do you know, light clean smoker but tons of work.
I say that to say, this was not my first rodeo on the offset, and who knows it may not be my last.

A lot of work but the payoff is totally worth it and it's FUN. Best bbq for me is off the stick burner so I'll always have one in the mix. With that said, my stick burner season is fall through spring. I don't like tending the fire during those hot arse summer months so I use my other cookers. Like mentioned above though, it's not for everyone. Good luck!

not a bad way to go

ssv3
12-04-2017, 07:45 PM
Exactly my feelings. I started out with a Backwoods Party (still have) then a Fatboy, then a Pro Jr. One day I tasted some que that was cooked on a Gator and mine eyes were opened lol. Significantly better than what I had been cooking. :thumb:

Yep! The day that pushed me over the edge to buy a stick burner was when I went to brethren GTR's house for pig picking holiday party IIRC 4 years ago. The best dang bbq I tasted ever. Greg loaded up a big zip lock bag of leftovers for me to take home and the pleasant aroma of meat and smoke filling the interior of the car is still fresh in my mind. It is different. And yes COS's kill dreams.

el luchador
12-04-2017, 07:51 PM
You just joined the Thoey63 Club - now sell the stickburner and buy an LSG IVC.

kinda rich for my blood, and I would be afraid someone would steal it from my backyard. it looks nice though

You have presented your case well.
Imo cooking is supposed to be relaxing and enjoyable.

THANK YOU :thumb:

Yep. In fact it's even easier to do Ribs in the crockpot and brisket in the oven. No added benefit to have to even go outside. Little liquid smoke and you're good to go.

Don't know why it took me so long to see the truth!!

:tongue:

You say that tongue in cheek but you have a point. I think Ive decided that turkey just needs to be done in the oven.

I cant do brisket in the oven because my oven is Ī15 degrees, not as tight as the uds, AND it doesnt give a smoke ring or a bark, both of which I like :boxing:

also, the best beef short ribs I ever had were BRAISED in a brown french sauce(veloute?) and served with Gratin Dauphinois and a zesty Gremolata so ... :boxing:

MODS, PLEASE BAN THE OP!!!

Actually, I'm kidding, a UDS is what I use, set it and forget it.

Viva la UDS !:thumb:

So what are you going to do with your Pecos?

I told a coworker that if I didnt keep it I would offer it to him at my cost. He will likely find a reason to not buy it, at which point I will offer it for sale on CL and maybe even sell it for a couple bucks more than I bought it for.

el luchador
12-04-2017, 07:52 PM
Stick Burners aren't for everyone.

true

el luchador
12-04-2017, 07:57 PM
You can no longer fly the Texas flag at your place.

the cops just knocked on my door and asked to see my texas man card! :D

Nothing ruins one's desire to cook with a stick burner like a COS. The truth is, it's not for everyone. Most of my friends think I am crazy to get it up in the middle of the night to tend to a fire. That is until they eat the food. What they don't understand is that I find enjoyment in the process but even I don't want to do it all of the time which is why I own a BGE. Both tools produce great BBQ but I take a lot of satisfaction in being able to cook with a wood fire. My best BBQ comes off of the stick burner according to everyone who eats it.

I agree with you. the cheap smokers are a handful to manage. I think the good stick burners are the huge ones like they use at restaurants where you can really load up the fire box and have it maintain temp. starting with 5 sticks- you add one its a 20% change, versus a small smoker where you have one stick going, add another one and you just doubled your BTUs

On the positive side you have so many options to produce the Que you love.

Well said :thumb:

Exactly my feelings. I started out with a Backwoods Party (still have) then a Fatboy, then a Pro Jr. One day I tasted some que that was cooked on a Gator and mine eyes were opened lol. Significantly better than what I had been cooking. :thumb:

could it be grass is greener syndrome? charcoal smokers win comps too and I have a feeling if you had brisket from a top team using charcoal you might love it. the number two kcbs team this year cooks on DRUMS.

First came the Big Green Egg. I was mad everyday that I had to goto work and not cook on the Egg. Then came the Lang, 8 cooks so far, still not 100% it's for me. Like it was said, you have to micromanage the sticks and temps. On the Egg, set it and walk away. Then the stick burner does give you the excuse that I can't do any house chores :-D

Awesome excuse :) :-D

el luchador
12-04-2017, 07:59 PM
I think the reason why I never fell into the phase of not liking my stick burner because I learned to not sweat the small stuff from the start. I cook at a temp range. If itís too hot itíll be done quicker too cool itíll take longer. I let it do itís thing and thatís what I enjoy. Donít get me wrong...losing sleep sucks. But itís what I enjoy and thatís why I do it.

i didnt let the temp range bother me 225 to 325, all good. still significantly more work than charcoal

Different strokes...

If everyone liked stick burners thereíd be no other type of cookers sold.

very true.

longhair75
12-04-2017, 08:07 PM
I love cooking on my stick burner. I love the early mornings getting my fire started and sipping a cup of good coffee while the sun comes up. I love tending the fire and the smell of thin blue hickory smoke.

el luchador
12-04-2017, 08:14 PM
I love cooking on my stick burner. I love the early mornings getting my fire started and sipping a cup of good coffee while the sun comes up. I love tending the fire and the smell of thin blue hickory smoke.


i see two classes of brethren- those who like the process, and those who just like the food.

Im in the latter group- plus with young kids there is just not enough time to enjoy the process.

pjtexas1
12-04-2017, 08:21 PM
i see two classes of brethren- those who like the process, and those who just like the food.

Im in the latter group- plus with young kids there is just not enough time to enjoy the process.3rd group: those who prefer stick burning but need the convenience of charcoal when time doesn't permit.

4th group: those who just like to cook on anything.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

WeberWho
12-04-2017, 08:23 PM
I have owned 7 Big Green Eggs in the last 7 years. I don't ever see myself without one. It's a fantastic grill. You literally set it and forget it. Which is awesome but I knew I had to be missing something. I picked up a Shirley stick burner this summer and found exactly what I was missing. Yes it takes way more work than the BGE but the flavor can't be replicated.

I always chuckled when people mentioned that they missed using sticks and stoking a fire. I always thought they couldn't be serious when they said that. I mean who wants to go through all that extra work? I can proudly say I'm one of those people who enjoy the extra work now. It feels like I drive the cook rather than just picking it up when it's done. It's rewarding I guess. That's maybe why I've never bought an automatic transmission vehicle. :-D

That's just my personal experience with sticks so far. I can also see why others are opposed to it. Especially being limited with time. The BGE will always be my workhorse but sticks are way more fun and rewarding!

lastmajordude
12-04-2017, 08:25 PM
Second GTR....as Dave Klose said once to me “if you’re not having fun (cooking/smoking) why are you doing it??”......do what you want....personally I like some of it all. I’m in a minority because I don’t like the way an egg cooks. That being said most cooks are on a kettle, use a drum second most.....and I have a WONDERFUL SECOND HAND JAMBO STICKBURNER which I LOVE the best of all but it’s not always time allowable. Use what you like......I will have to say a great and wonderful lady sage convinced me to try a drum...it is incredible in it’s versatility. The kettle is quite possibly the greatest cooking device evahhhh....and the stick burner.....well....it’s getting back to caveman simplicity and the taste IS to this old dinosaur most wonderful...of anything........but again....do what YOU like.....

Jason TQ
12-04-2017, 08:29 PM
3rd group: those who prefer stick burning but need the convenience of charcoal when time doesn't permit.

4th group: those who just like to cook on anything.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

83rd Group??:
https://i.imgur.com/kUF2j98l.jpg

pjtexas1
12-04-2017, 08:29 PM
I have to say this is an awesome thread! It could have gone very negative but we have this instead. :thumb:

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

longhair75
12-04-2017, 08:29 PM
i see two classes of brethren- those who like the process, and those who just like the food.

Im in the latter group- plus with young kids there is just not enough time to enjoy the process.


I do so enjoy the process. Even cooking inside, I enjoy the long cooks. Spaghetti day at my house starts in the early morning and lasts most of the day

SmittyJonz
12-04-2017, 09:15 PM
3rd group: those who prefer stick burning but need the convenience of charcoal when time doesn't permit.

4th group: those who just like to cook on anything.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

5th group - same as 4th except No Pellet Poopers or Sous vide.........

Beentown
12-04-2017, 10:21 PM
5th group - same as 4th except No Pellet Poopers or Sous vide.........6th group - no pellet poopers with a love for sous vide ;)

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

sudsandswine
12-04-2017, 10:35 PM
clean burning wood taste is a very mild flavor, just like charcoal so no advantage to the wood burner,


I guarantee you I could pass the "Pepsi challenge" between a brisket cooked using a clean wood fire and one using a charcoal fueled smoker 100% of the time. I get the convenience factor - I still use and love my Primo XL with some quality lump, and I've cooked on and owned most of the popular charcoal fueled smokers out there, but the two produce noticeably different products. That doesn't mean one or the other is bad, but IMO they're definitely not the same.

There are times when running a stick burner is not feasible for me, but it's usually related to the start up and shut down (cooling off time) required as opposed to the level of effort in feeding logs for the cook itself. Stepping outside every 30 to 40 minutes to plop a new log on the fire is hardly time consuming and aside from having to physically leave the house for something (which I wouldn't do with any style of cooker running a live fire anyway) it's hardly more work, especially when the end result is taken into consideration.

One of the best things cooking on a stick burner did for me was to break me from the "the entire cook must run at ___ degrees or else it'll be a major fail" mentality...now I generally operate on a 50* +/- window and aim to keep it at a particular median temperature some of the time. I used to be so anal about keeping a cooker at some particular temperature otherwise some catastrophic undesirable end result would occur. But, it never did, I just turned out some really awesome barbecue if I'm somewhere aroundish 265-330*.

But most importantly, figure out what works for you and your lifestyle and keep on barbecuing - that's what matters :thumb:

BobBrisket
12-04-2017, 10:38 PM
Kinda funny how things kinda do a turnabout. I had started out with an old modded Brinkmann S&P. I learned how to use it and mastered the curve, but then marriage and kids came along and allnighters with the stick burner were a no go. Bought a WSM, built several UDS's. I have given them all away. I now stick to my Kettles, BUT now that the kids are older and I can get all the damn pecan I want.........I want to go back to a stick burner. The flavor profile is much different. I miss that flavor. I use the PBC to get my fix, but still want to burn stick again.

Bob

Rockinar
12-04-2017, 11:14 PM
Ban!!!!!!!!

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/gYNUOkqzcVA/maxresdefault.jpg

el luchador
12-04-2017, 11:30 PM
I guarantee you I could pass the "Pepsi challenge" between a brisket cooked using a clean wood fire and one using a charcoal fueled smoker 100% of the time. I get the convenience factor - I still use and love my Primo XL with some quality lump, and I've cooked on and owned most of the popular charcoal fueled smokers out there, but the two produce noticeably different products. That doesn't mean one or the other is bad, but IMO they're definitely not the same.

There are times when running a stick burner is not feasible for me, but it's usually related to the start up and shut down (cooling off time) required as opposed to the level of effort in feeding logs for the cook itself. Stepping outside every 30 to 40 minutes to plop a new log on the fire is hardly time consuming and aside from having to physically leave the house for something (which I wouldn't do with any style of cooker running a live fire anyway) it's hardly more work, especially when the end result is taken into consideration.

One of the best things cooking on a stick burner did for me was to break me from the "the entire cook must run at ___ degrees or else it'll be a major fail" mentality...now I generally operate on a 50* +/- window and aim to keep it at a particular median temperature some of the time. I used to be so anal about keeping a cooker at some particular temperature otherwise some catastrophic undesirable end result would occur. But, it never did, I just turned out some really awesome barbecue if I'm somewhere aroundish 265-330*.

But most importantly, figure out what works for you and your lifestyle and keep on barbecuing - that's what matters :thumb:

the "pepsi" challenge - we need to do that one. maybe I should organize one for two or three guys here in NTX before I sell my stick burners.

a couple of things for me about wood vs charcoal.
1. the best and cleanest fire out of my stick burner was when the wood was burned down to charcoal embers-clean clean clean and smelled great. I could only smell the meat and the heat, no smoke to see or smell. thats essentially hardwood lump.
2. good smoke should be barely there. the meat is the star of the show - either wood, or charcoals can get one there.

as for just plopping a stick on every 30 mins- disagree there. significantly more time consuming that you suggest- plop the wood on, open the vents, check that the wood has caught, let it come up to temp, start adjuting the vents, then eventually its at a good state then I can go back in and resume what ever me and the family were doing -thankfully I have a patient wife.

I will agree on the stick burner breaking the temp habit. I used to try to get Ī2 degrees with charcoal. now , if Im within 50į its all good.






Kinda funny how things kinda do a turnabout. I had started out with an old modded Brinkmann S&P. I learned how to use it and mastered the curve, but then marriage and kids came along and allnighters with the stick burner were a no go. Bought a WSM, built several UDS's. I have given them all away. I now stick to my Kettles, BUT now that the kids are older and I can get all the damn pecan I want.........I want to go back to a stick burner. The flavor profile is much different. I miss that flavor. I use the PBC to get my fix, but still want to burn stick again.

Bob

I feel you and felt exactly how you felt- most feel wood is most authentic- so I acquired two wood burners to test it. there was no value added for me so going back to charcoal.

I do believe that to get the best out of a stick burner requires a huge unit that can burn 4-6 sticks at a time.

but, as a wise man once said:
But most importantly, figure out what works for you and your lifestyle and keep on barbecuing - that's what matters :thumb:

Ban!!!!!!!!



lol

gtr
12-04-2017, 11:51 PM
Kinda funny how things kinda do a turnabout. I had started out with an old modded Brinkmann S&P. I learned how to use it and mastered the curve, but then marriage and kids came along and allnighters with the stick burner were a no go. Bought a WSM, built several UDS's. I have given them all away. I now stick to my Kettles, BUT now that the kids are older and I can get all the damn pecan I want.........I want to go back to a stick burner. The flavor profile is much different. I miss that flavor. I use the PBC to get my fix, but still want to burn stick again.

Bob

One thing that's great when the kids get teenage is that they're old enough to split wood. My older son (16) is ready to do manly chit so he likes to split wood. I just cooked 130# of butts this weekend, I didn't swing the maul once, and there's plenty wood left over. :whoo:

I love days when I have time to use the offset, and I also love having verticals & kettles for when time doesn't allow for tending a fire all day. My preference is stickburning, but I just don't have the time to do it as often as I'd like. A beautiful day with the Klose chugging along is a glorious thing indeed.

JokerBroker
12-05-2017, 06:59 AM
as for just plopping a stick on every 30 mins- disagree there. significantly more time consuming that you suggest- plop the wood on, open the vents, check that the wood has caught, let it come up to temp, start adjusting the vents, then eventually its at a good state then I can go back in and resume what ever me and the family were doing

Generally speaking, I agree with most of everyone's points of view on this thread but this particular observation may only hold true with offsets that aren't designed as well as they could be. I always preheat my splits by placing them to the side of the fire. This is easier to do when you have a large firebox. Once it's preheated and its time to add to the fire, I can plop it on the coal bed and walk away. There is no need to adjust vents, make sure the wood catches (because it always does), and the temp hardly fluctuates at all because 1/4" plate holds the heat so well. It takes a concentrated effort to move my temps up or down once they are stabile. The only thing I have to watch out for is waiting too long to add another split because the temps will hold for a while even after the fire is almost out.

Beentown
12-05-2017, 07:24 AM
I guarantee you I could pass the "Pepsi challenge" between a brisket cooked using a clean wood fire and one using a charcoal fueled smoker 100% of the time. I get the convenience factor - I still use and love my Primo XL with some quality lump, and I've cooked on and owned most of the popular charcoal fueled smokers out there, but the two produce noticeably different products. That doesn't mean one or the other is bad, but IMO they're definitely not the same.

There are times when running a stick burner is not feasible for me, but it's usually related to the start up and shut down (cooling off time) required as opposed to the level of effort in feeding logs for the cook itself. Stepping outside every 30 to 40 minutes to plop a new log on the fire is hardly time consuming and aside from having to physically leave the house for something (which I wouldn't do with any style of cooker running a live fire anyway) it's hardly more work, especially when the end result is taken into consideration.

One of the best things cooking on a stick burner did for me was to break me from the "the entire cook must run at ___ degrees or else it'll be a major fail" mentality...now I generally operate on a 50* +/- window and aim to keep it at a particular median temperature some of the time. I used to be so anal about keeping a cooker at some particular temperature otherwise some catastrophic undesirable end result would occur. But, it never did, I just turned out some really awesome barbecue if I'm somewhere aroundish 265-330*.

But most importantly, figure out what works for you and your lifestyle and keep on barbecuing - that's what matters :thumb:We just did it this week. Chuckies with and without wood.

Everyone could tell.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

pjtexas1
12-05-2017, 07:40 AM
if your wood is seasoned and the offset is designed properly you can just put a stick in and walk away. i only need 1 small stick every 40 minutes or so. if i want to go longer i will add 2 sticks and let the temp jump a little bit. i start with my intake and exhaust wide open and never touch them until it is time to put it away. most of the time i don't even open the fb door. i just push the sticks in thru the intake.

i get what you are saying about the wood just being lump once it burns down but to me the flavor i like comes from the smoke as it burns down into coals. that is why i tell people to add a green stick if they don't get enough smoke from their stick burners.

let's keep this thread going. i am loving everyone's comments. :thumb:

jasonjax
12-05-2017, 07:43 AM
I love my stick burner.

The sticks are incredibly small though!

http://www.burn-blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Premium-Wood-Pellets.jpg

mstewart39
12-05-2017, 07:44 AM
“Mountains should be climbed with as little effort as possible and without desire. The reality of your own nature should determine the speed. If you become restless, speed up. If you become winded, slow down. You climb the mountain in an equilibrium between restlessness and exhaustion. Then, when you're no longer thinking ahead, each footstep isn't just a means to an end but a unique event in itself....To live only for some future goal is shallow. It's the sides of the mountains which sustain life, not the top.”

― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

ModelMaker
12-05-2017, 07:57 AM
A man gotta do what a man gotta do to make his heart light.
Carry on.
Ed

Czarbecue
12-05-2017, 08:02 AM
In a somewhat related topic, I thought no real BBQ restaurant would use a pellet pooper until I saw that video about Big Mista's place in the LBC. Surely on my place to check out when I visit my sister in the foothills.

sudsandswine
12-05-2017, 09:13 AM
Generally speaking, I agree with most of everyone's points of view on this thread but this particular observation may only hold true with offsets that aren't designed as well as they could be. I always preheat my splits by placing them to the side of the fire. This is easier to do when you have a large firebox. Once it's preheated and its time to add to the fire, I can plop it on the coal bed and walk away. There is no need to adjust vents, make sure the wood catches (because it always does), and the temp hardly fluctuates at all because 1/4" plate holds the heat so well. It takes a concentrated effort to move my temps up or down once they are stabile. The only thing I have to watch out for is waiting too long to add another split because the temps will hold for a while even after the fire is almost out.


What kind of smoker do you have OP? I open my intake a little over 50%, open exhaust fully, and never touch vents again until it's time to shut her down. If I want the cooker hotter or cooler I just adjust the size of the fire...feed logs more or less often, or feed more or less logs at one time.

If you're constantly having to fidget with vents, maybe there's an issue with your cooker, as joker mentioned.

bonz50
12-05-2017, 09:28 AM
I'm a firm believer in having the right tool for the job at hand. if the job at hand requires an overnight 'set and forget' cook then fire up the coal burner. if the job is a midday relaxing rib cook with beers and friends, stick burn it. no shame in having a preference, no shame in having multiple smokers either.

jestridge
12-05-2017, 09:30 AM
people puts way too much trying to control the heat, , feed it wood and dont worry about the temp. if get too hot open the door if too cold close the door, yes bbq taste better with wood , but a lot of people that eats it can't tell the difference, use whatever fuel source you like, in the end that all that matters

JohnH12
12-05-2017, 10:06 AM
A chore for some is a pleasure for others.
Do whatever trips your trigger. Just don't go vegan!

DubfromGA
12-05-2017, 11:39 AM
I'm a firm believer in having the right tool for the job at hand. if the job at hand requires an overnight 'set and forget' cook then fire up the coal burner. if the job is a midday relaxing rib cook with beers and friends, stick burn it. no shame in having a preference, no shame in having multiple smokers either.

Well said !!!!!! :thumb:

Czarbecue
12-05-2017, 11:55 AM
Don't sell your Pecos until you come to the Spring bash. Your fellow brethren may be able to make you a believer.

el luchador
12-05-2017, 01:31 PM
One thing that's great when the kids get teenage is that they're old enough to split wood. My older son (16) is ready to do manly chit so he likes to split wood. I just cooked 130# of butts this weekend, I didn't swing the maul once, and there's plenty wood left over. :whoo:

I love days when I have time to use the offset, and I also love having verticals & kettles for when time doesn't allow for tending a fire all day. My preference is stickburning, but I just don't have the time to do it as often as I'd like. A beautiful day with the Klose chugging along is a glorious thing indeed.

gotta love free labor

Generally speaking, I agree with most of everyone's points of view on this thread but this particular observation may only hold true with offsets that aren't designed as well as they could be. I always preheat my splits by placing them to the side of the fire. This is easier to do when you have a large firebox. Once it's preheated and its time to add to the fire, I can plop it on the coal bed and walk away. There is no need to adjust vents, make sure the wood catches (because it always does), and the temp hardly fluctuates at all because 1/4" plate holds the heat so well. It takes a concentrated effort to move my temps up or down once they are stabile. The only thing I have to watch out for is waiting too long to add another split because the temps will hold for a while even after the fire is almost out.

if I do that, with my vents half open, the temp will go from 250 to 400 in a matter of minutes. mine definitely needs management.

We just did it this week. Chuckies with and without wood.

Everyone could tell.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

what was the "without wood" option - charcoal? which was preferred. We need more info.

if your wood is seasoned and the offset is designed properly you can just put a stick in and walk away. i only need 1 small stick every 40 minutes or so. if i want to go longer i will add 2 sticks and let the temp jump a little bit. i start with my intake and exhaust wide open and never touch them until it is time to put it away. most of the time i don't even open the fb door. i just push the sticks in thru the intake.

i get what you are saying about the wood just being lump once it burns down but to me the flavor i like comes from the smoke as it burns down into coals. that is why i tell people to add a green stick if they don't get enough smoke from their stick burners.

let's keep this thread going. i am loving everyone's comments. :thumb:

Im going to cook with only wood embers one day. maybe not soon but Im going to do it. I have a feeling it will be unmatched. who knows though, until I test (any reason to cook right ?) :clap2:

I love my stick burner.

The sticks are incredibly small though!

http://www.burn-blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Premium-Wood-Pellets.jpg


my boss has one of those. they seem very easy to cook on. hows the flavor

el luchador
12-05-2017, 01:35 PM
ďMountains should be climbed with as little effort as possible and without desire. The reality of your own nature should determine the speed. If you become restless, speed up. If you become winded, slow down. You climb the mountain in an equilibrium between restlessness and exhaustion. Then, when you're no longer thinking ahead, each footstep isn't just a means to an end but a unique event in itself....To live only for some future goal is shallow. It's the sides of the mountains which sustain life, not the top.Ē

― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

for some reason I like that quote. thanks for sharing.

A man gotta do what a man gotta do to make his heart light.
Carry on.
Ed

:thumb:

What kind of smoker do you have OP? I open my intake a little over 50%, open exhaust fully, and never touch vents again until it's time to shut her down. If I want the cooker hotter or cooler I just adjust the size of the fire...feed logs more or less often, or feed more or less logs at one time.

If you're constantly having to fidget with vents, maybe there's an issue with your cooker, as joker mentioned.

my smoker at half intake vent open full exhaust will burn at 400 degrees when the wood catches and the fire is roaring.

I'm a firm believer in having the right tool for the job at hand. if the job at hand requires an overnight 'set and forget' cook then fire up the coal burner. if the job is a midday relaxing rib cook with beers and friends, stick burn it. no shame in having a preference, no shame in having multiple smokers either.

good point

A chore for some is a pleasure for others.
Do whatever trips your trigger. Just don't go vegan!

We are all vegans by proxy- cows eat grass, we eat cows :-D

el luchador
12-05-2017, 01:36 PM
Don't sell your Pecos until you come to the Spring bash. Your fellow brethren may be able to make you a believer.

I do plan to be at this bash :whoo: .

the smoker is already sold though. my coworker is picking it up this weekend. Sold it to him at my cost but got to test it with three cooks so Im happy.
I still have the vertical stick burner - maybe i'll keep that till after the bash :-D

pjtexas1
12-05-2017, 01:54 PM
This should have been my first response...https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171205/c7a7e4289d0230a721d8b4ff51fa51bd.jpg

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

70monte
12-05-2017, 01:56 PM
Your reasons are a lot of the same ones I have for not owning a stick burner or really having the desire to get one. I don't like to be tied down so much to the smoker that I can't go run an errand or be gone from the house for a few hours. Sourcing the wood as well as letting it season and cutting it to size is another inconvenience.

THoey1963
12-05-2017, 02:21 PM
The time to manage the stick burner was what changed my mind and made me go back to charcoal smokers. I work from home a lot, so a midday smoke for tonight's dinner is quite common. Unfortunately, working from home doesn't always mean I can run out back every 40 minutes. A lot of times it was more like 90 minutes. So, some times the fire would die down, then I'd add a couple sticks and then it would go too high, even when considering a range of temps. It frustrated me, and I found myself using the WSM instead. The whole ordeal was quite a painful and costly learning mistake. It made the great food leave a bitter taste in my mouth.

Do what makes you happy...

el luchador
12-05-2017, 02:25 PM
This should have been my first response...

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

bwahaha. lmao

Your reasons are a lot of the same ones I have for not owning a stick burner or really having the desire to get one. I don't like to be tied down so much to the smoker that I can't go run an errand or be gone from the house for a few hours. Sourcing the wood as well as letting it season and cutting it to size is another inconvenience.

:thumb::thumb::thumb:

what cooker do you have?
my charcoal burner is a uds and it is on the internet so I have eyes on the temp at all times.

low and slow cooking for a long amount of time and still being able to run errands - priceless!

jasonjax
12-05-2017, 02:26 PM
my boss has one of those. they seem very easy to cook on. hows the flavor

I love the flavor. I'm not positive, but I THINK 5 of the top 10 teams in the last Jack used pellet poopers.

pjtexas1
12-05-2017, 02:31 PM
i know everyone does it but i just cannot get myself to leave the property when i have a live fire in anything. even if my HeaterMeter were to let me know the temp was high and i know that i can close the intake from my phone i still would be worried the whole time. sometimes it sucks being paranoid. :heh:

el luchador
12-05-2017, 02:32 PM
The time to manage the stick burner was what changed my mind and made me go back to charcoal smokers. I work from home a lot, so a midday smoke for tonight's dinner is quite common. Unfortunately, working from home doesn't always mean I can run out back every 40 minutes. A lot of times it was more like 90 minutes. So, some times the fire would die down, then I'd add a couple sticks and then it would go too high, even when considering a range of temps. It frustrated me, and I found myself using the WSM instead. The whole ordeal was quite a painful and costly learning mistake. It made the great food leave a bitter taste in my mouth.

Do what makes you happy...

:thumb::thumb::thumb:

wow, you put it way better than I could. with my charcoal smoker, I looked forward to cooking because it was easy, and the food was delicious. with the stick burner the idea of cooking was not something I looked forward to and that's not what cooking should be about. it shouldn't be a chore.

thanks for the feedback!

I love the flavor. I'm not positive, but I THINK 5 of the top 10 teams in the last Jack used pellet poopers.

Wowza!!!
is the data out there somewhere?

jasonjax
12-05-2017, 02:34 PM
Wowza!!!
is the data out there somewhere?

Probably, but I'm too lazy to go search. It was a comment made by Myron Mixon in his class while we discussed the various types of smokers. He referenced one of the majors where the top five finishers all used pellet cookers, that's why I said I THINK it was the Jack.

el luchador
12-05-2017, 02:41 PM
Probably, but I'm too lazy to go search. It was a comment made by Myron Mixon in his class while we discussed the various types of smokers. He referenced one of the majors where the top five finishers all used pellet cookers, that's why I said I THINK it was the Jack.


is this the list right here?
https://www.jackdaniels.com/en-us/BBQ/Rocky-Top-Barbecue

not that it really matters though ( in a good way). Im sure the top teams can cook in an electric oven and still win. lol

DubfromGA
12-05-2017, 02:56 PM
A ceramic kamado is one super easy to run smoker.

Results are outstanding and they lock into temps and stay there.

BillN
12-05-2017, 03:21 PM
A chore for some is a pleasure for others.
Do whatever trips your trigger. Just don't go vegan!

Vegan Briskets are the only way to go, I'm not a fan of meat eating cows...:becky:

el luchador
12-05-2017, 03:33 PM
A ceramic kamado is one super easy to run smoker.

Results are outstanding and they lock into temps and stay there.

Ive heard they are very good at keeping temp, and moist because they don't turn over the air that often. Maybe once they come down in price ... :-D

Vegan Briskets are the only way to go, I'm not a fan of meat eating cows...:becky:

Bwahaha. LMAO :thumb:

txsmkmstr
12-05-2017, 04:17 PM
my smoker at half intake vent open full exhaust will burn at 400 degrees when the wood catches and the fire is roaring.

I have nothing to offer than hasn't already been said about your decision. I also have no experience with your particular pit. I would like to make an observation based on your comment.

Your spikes in temperature indicate to me that some different fire management techniques might have been in order. I'm thinking along the lines of 1) smaller fire and 2) smaller wood. In addition, the "add a split every 40 minutes" is something that not all pits subscribe to. In fact, it can be more like every 20 minutes to calm the temp fluctuations while maintaining a good coal base. I only bring this point to the table for those considering a stick burner in their future. Learn to control temps with fire size and forget about the dampers. Then and only then can you start to dial things in (like more or less smoke flavor) with the damper settings. Three cooks on an offset is not much of a learning curve.

I'm glad you found a buyer for your pit - best of luck with your new set up. :thumb:

el luchador
12-05-2017, 05:00 PM
I have nothing to offer than hasn't already been said about your decision. I also have no experience with your particular pit. I would like to make an observation based on your comment.

Your spikes in temperature indicate to me that some different fire management techniques might have been in order. I'm thinking along the lines of 1) smaller fire and 2) smaller wood. In addition, the "add a split every 40 minutes" is something that not all pits subscribe to. In fact, it can be more like every 20 minutes to calm the temp fluctuations while maintaining a good coal base. I only bring this point to the table for those considering a stick burner in their future. Learn to control temps with fire size and forget about the dampers. Then and only then can you start to dial things in (like more or less smoke flavor) with the damper settings. Three cooks on an offset is not much of a learning curve.

I'm glad you found a buyer for your pit - best of luck with your new set up. :thumb:

thank you. you kinda made my point for me. I have no interest in adding wood every 20 mins or cutting down splits to cook.

thanks though :becky:

cowgirl
12-05-2017, 07:14 PM
I hear ya!
I love my wood burner and love the food that comes off of it. I won't get rid of it.
There are times I don't want to tend the fire or don't have time to tend the fire. I can toss the meat or whatever into a drum and walk away. Check cattle, fix fence, chase critters, come back to some good eats, with no fuss.

SMetroHawkeye
12-05-2017, 08:00 PM
Very cool thread. El Luchador - I appreciate your candor. Very supportive community here. Stick with whatever works best for you... but keep on cookin’!!

bbqwizard
12-05-2017, 09:25 PM
I have a serious case of cooker OCD. I started on charcoal, went to stick burning, then moved out west wher wood costs a fortune to buy. So, I went to baby logs (pellets), then back to charcoal, then pellets, and recently acquired my good friend's Klose pit after he passed away (RIP Bull). I Love ALL of it! I get what you're saying for sure, and in the end you just have to be happy. There isn't anything like sitting behind a firebox shooting the shtt with your friends/family, and the food can be amazing.....but in the "real" world a lot of people just don't have the time anymore, which is sad.

With all that said, I solved the problem I was having between which cooker to use. I bought one of each! Sort of. Still don't have a water cooker. I love them all! My abilities and cooker racial eyes are blind:razz:

Suddenly, I feel the urge to fire up the Klose (baby bull).

tom b
12-05-2017, 09:37 PM
I really don't have much to add but I run my pit pretty much like txsmkmstr described, that said I do not always have time for that, that is why I have options.

SDAR
12-05-2017, 10:10 PM
I started cooking with my egg around 2005. I had a heavy Oklahoma Joe prior to that that I never really learned because I didnít take the time. The egg made it it so easy. I still have that same egg. Next, I bought a Traeger Texas. It was even easier. I plugged it in and tried to set it and forget it just like the commercials said. Like a post above, I could never let any of those cookers be. I guess you can say that I never ďtrustedĒ any of them.

To this day, Iíve had a Pitmaker Vault, Yoder YS640, PBS and a Gateway drum on top of all of the above cookers. I never learned to trust any of them...and was able to go to sleep or the kids or grandkids ďgamesĒ. I have always needed to know ďwhere itís atĒ.

Iíve won several GCís and RCís at competitions while winning at Samís, IBCA, LSBS and KCBS competitions. Iíve qualified for and attended the American Royal Invitational as well as the World Food Championship when it was in Las Vegas.

I have always been too anal to allow myself more than probably more than 2 hours without checking my cooker.

What I am saying I guess, is if you trust whatever tool you choose to do the cooking for you; you are more of a relaxed cooker than I have ever have been despite the multiple attempts and the thousands of dollars I have spent in that pursuit.

Me? I give up. Iíll sit by the fire and feed it.

bryonlr
12-05-2017, 10:16 PM
As been stated repeatedly, and what it really comes down to, it's the cook, not the cooker.

el luchador
12-05-2017, 10:59 PM
I hear ya!
I love my wood burner and love the food that comes off of it. I won't get rid of it.
There are times I don't want to tend the fire or don't have time to tend the fire. I can toss the meat or whatever into a drum and walk away. Check cattle, fix fence, chase critters, come back to some good eats, with no fuss.

Thank you. btw, I was on your website and saw the whole hog you cooked in the cinder block pit using nothing but charcoal. It was great to hear that some of your friends thought it was the best they had ever tasted. :thumb:

cowgirl
12-05-2017, 11:06 PM
Thank you. btw, I was on your website and saw the whole hog you cooked in the cinder block pit using nothing but charcoal. It was great to hear that some of your friends thought it was the best they had ever tasted. :thumb:

lol Thanks! :-D
There's an underground pig there too, using fence posts and hard wood. :thumb:

el luchador
12-05-2017, 11:09 PM
I really don't have much to add but I run my pit pretty much like txsmkmstr described, that said I do not always have time for that, that is why I have options.

yes sir. one trend I think Im seeing in this thread, is it seems almost everyone, even the diehard stick guys, have an "easy" cooker as well, be it charcoal or pellets.

I started cooking with my egg around 2005. I had a heavy Oklahoma Joe prior to that that I never really learned because I didn’t take the time. The egg made it it so easy. I still have that same egg. Next, I bought a Traeger Texas. It was even easier. I plugged it in and tried to set it and forget it just like the commercials said. Like a post above, I could never let any of those cookers be. I guess you can say that I never “trusted” any of them.

To this day, I’ve had a Pitmaker Vault, Yoder YS640, PBS and a Gateway drum on top of all of the above cookers. I never learned to trust any of them...and was able to go to sleep or the kids or grandkids “games”. I have always needed to know “where it’s at”.

I’ve won several GC’s and RC’s at competitions while winning at Sam’s, IBCA, LSBS and KCBS competitions. I’ve qualified for and attended the American Royal Invitational as well as the World Food Championship when it was in Las Vegas.

I have always been too anal to allow myself more than probably more than 2 hours without checking my cooker.

What I am saying I guess, is if you trust whatever tool you choose to do the cooking for you; you are more of a relaxed cooker than I have ever have been despite the multiple attempts and the thousands of dollars I have spent in that pursuit.

Me? I give up. I’ll sit by the fire and feed it.

sounds like bbq is a serious hobby for you! congrats on the gc and rgc wins. Im sure getting to that level takes a lot of effort and talent.

for me, bbq is not my hobby. Cooking is. all kinds of cooking. I love smoking, grilling, I LOVE my wok burner, baking, braising,searing etc. I guess I like to eat, so I like to cook. I want it to taste great, but Im trying to eat, not necessarily to take the scenic route.

btw, Im sure it wont help you, but just in case, a heatermeter is a very cheap tool and it will show you your cooker temps anywhere you have internet access. it will even text your phone or email you if your cooker goes below or above a set temp.

el luchador
12-05-2017, 11:13 PM
lol Thanks! :-D
There's an underground pig there too, using fence posts and hard wood. :thumb:

I saw that one too --but you were burning wood! - and I didnt see any best ever comments on that one so.... :-D

el luchador
12-05-2017, 11:15 PM
Iíve won several GCís and RCís at competitions while winning at Samís, IBCA, LSBS and KCBS competitions. Iíve qualified for and attended the American Royal Invitational as well as the World Food Championship when it was in Las Vegas.



I have a follow up question since you compete , and win.

by the time its all said and done, how much of a difference does the cooker make to the flavor. in your opinion. ie stick vs charcoal vs pellets etc

70monte
12-06-2017, 01:06 AM
bwahaha. lmao



:thumb::thumb::thumb:

what cooker do you have?
my charcoal burner is a uds and it is on the internet so I have eyes on the temp at all times.

low and slow cooking for a long amount of time and still being able to run errands - priceless!

I have several cookers but the one that I smoke on the most is my Good One Open Range. I also have a Good One Marshall for larger cooks.

On my last cook using the Open Range cooking some pork butts, I had to go to a town 35 miles away to do some errands and I was gone for over three hours. I monitored temps using my smoke thermometer with the Gateway app and the thing just chugged along. I was using Good One lump in it. I can usually go five to six hours before reloading and this thing keeps pretty steady temps. I know some people who have gone up to 10 hours on one load of lump.

Wayne

SDAR
12-06-2017, 05:53 AM
I have a follow up question since you compete , and win.

by the time its all said and done, how much of a difference does the cooker make to the flavor. in your opinion. ie stick vs charcoal vs pellets etc

It all tastes good when done right. As far as the flavor from the ďfireĒ, the drums add the drippings effect. The offsets add the increased airflow effect which in my opinion is noticeably better to me. Iíve won more with the ďpublicĒ judges than I have with the CBJís of KCBS. Most of my wins came off of the Vault.

DubfromGA
12-06-2017, 03:25 PM
Ive heard they are very good at keeping temp, and moist because they don't turn over the air that often. Maybe once they come down in price ... :-D



Bwahaha. LMAO :thumb:



They sound like what you are looking for in a grill that that smoke, grill, seer. You'll make amazing brisket, pulled pork, ribs, wings, chicken, steaks and the best pizzas on the planet.

Make sure you get one with a lifetime warranty.

You will never regret a BGE, Kamado Joe, Primo or other.

Absolutely anything that you can cook in an indoor oven can be cooked with ease on your ceramic kamado.


You can also go the route that many, myself included, have gone....buy a Akorn kamado from Char Griller. Can be had for $299.

Air flow is the same as it's ceramic cousins....it is slightly more finicky if you overshoot your target temp, so more care is needed in how you start your fires for slow'n'low cooks. That being said....once you lock into the temp you are golden.

I bought an Akorn and found myself using that bad boy several times a week for three years. I simply wore it slam out. My family went nuts over my grilling in ways they'd never done before. In my opinion.....it's the best grilling money I've ever spent.

el luchador
12-06-2017, 11:35 PM
I have several cookers but the one that I smoke on the most is my Good One Open Range. I also have a Good One Marshall for larger cooks.

On my last cook using the Open Range cooking some pork butts, I had to go to a town 35 miles away to do some errands and I was gone for over three hours. I monitored temps using my smoke thermometer with the Gateway app and the thing just chugged along. I was using Good One lump in it. I can usually go five to six hours before reloading and this thing keeps pretty steady temps. I know some people who have gone up to 10 hours on one load of lump.

Wayne

Hi, Ive never heard of that cooker before. I had to look it up. Thanks for sharing.


It all tastes good when done right. As far as the flavor from the ďfireĒ, the drums add the drippings effect. The offsets add the increased airflow effect which in my opinion is noticeably better to me. Iíve won more with the ďpublicĒ judges than I have with the CBJís of KCBS. Most of my wins came off of the Vault.

Interesting on the airflow angle. I hadn't considered that. But you have a point. That could impact the taste. Thanks.

They sound like what you are looking for in a grill that that smoke, grill, seer. You'll make amazing brisket, pulled pork, ribs, wings, chicken, steaks and the best pizzas on the planet.

Make sure you get one with a lifetime warranty.

You will never regret a BGE, Kamado Joe, Primo or other.

Absolutely anything that you can cook in an indoor oven can be cooked with ease on your ceramic kamado.


You can also go the route that many, myself included, have gone....buy a Akorn kamado from Char Griller. Can be had for $299.

Air flow is the same as it's ceramic cousins....it is slightly more finicky if you overshoot your target temp, so more care is needed in how you start your fires for slow'n'low cooks. That being said....once you lock into the temp you are golden.

I bought an Akorn and found myself using that bad boy several times a week for three years. I simply wore it slam out. My family went nuts over my grilling in ways they'd never done before. In my opinion.....it's the best grilling money I've ever spent.

The kamados are nice, just quite expensive. And fragile. I'm way too rough on my stuff to ever own one.

el luchador
12-06-2017, 11:54 PM
So I washed my hands of the stick burner and I'm back to charcoal. I did my first charcoal cook in a month today. OMG it's sooo easy compared to stick.

So here is the wife's verdict.
First, I wanted to cook ember style with roaring natural charcoal and no wood in sight. No chunks, no chips, no pellets no sticks, nothing wood. I just wanted to understand what pure charcoal tastes like by itself.Just lump charcoal. I bought what was available at home Depot which is Royal oak.

Ok compared to kb briquettes lump has almost no visible smoke.

I brought a chimney full to red hot and dumped it in the cooker. I added a fresh chimney about every hour. All intakes wide open, 1.75"" of exhaust wide open. Temp would get to 310 and slowly die down to 225 then I would add another chimney of lump.

I knew it was going to be good because there was no visible smoke for 90% of the cook and the heat smelled so clean.

Anyhow, four hours later the ribs are ready and this is where it gets interesting.

I asked my wife if she could taste smoke and she said yes. I asked her is it lighter than normal she said yes. So I asked do you like it better, she said "yes I like the light smoke better but I know you like your food smoky so..."

So I ask again do you prefer this smoke and she said yes that the light smoke was not interfering with the meat and she felt like she was tasting meat with smoke instead of smoke with some meat.
What????!!!

So confirmed to myself that the cleanest smoke is using no wood at all and just "embers"

One Drop
12-07-2017, 12:49 AM
So I washed my hands of the stick burner and I'm back to charcoal. I did my first charcoal cook in a month today. OMG it's sooo easy compared to stick.

So here is the wife's verdict.
First, I wanted to cook ember style with roaring natural charcoal and no wood in sight. No chunks, no chips, no pellets no sticks, nothing wood. I just wanted to understand what pure charcoal tastes like by itself.Just lump charcoal. I bought what was available at home Depot which is Royal oak.

Ok compared to kb briquettes lump has almost no visible smoke.

I brought a chimney full to red hot and dumped it in the cooker. I added a fresh chimney about every hour. All intakes wide open, 1.75"" of exhaust wide open. Temp would get to 310 and slowly die down to 225 then I would add another chimney of lump.

I knew it was going to be good because there was no visible smoke for 90% of the cook and the heat smelled so clean.

Anyhow, four hours later the ribs are ready and this is where it gets interesting.

I asked my wife if she could taste smoke and she said yes. I asked her is it lighter than normal she said yes. So I asked do you like it better, she said "yes I like the light smoke better but I know you like your food smoky so..."

So I ask again do you prefer this smoke and she said yes that the light smoke was not interfering with the meat and she felt like she was tasting meat with smoke instead of smoke with some meat.
What????!!!

So confirmed to myself that the cleanest smoke is using no wood at all and just "embers"

I'm not sure that is the right conclusion. You were burning charcoal, not embers. Food tastes different cooked over lump charcoal than on an Argentinian grill, to illustrate this.

And wood can burn so clean and with so much airflow that the smoke profile can remain very light indeed.

As with everything fire it's really complex, and the amount of oxygen and rate of combustion have as much to do with the resulting flavour profile as the material being burned, IMO.

JokerBroker
12-07-2017, 06:54 AM
After reading through 7 pages of this thread, I don't think anyone's mind is going to be changing about what type of smoker they like to use. I would just like to say to all of you who might be thinking of buying an offset at some point, either buy a good one made of at least 1/4" thick steel or don't waste your money. I didn't see where the OP actually mentioned what model smoker he had but I saw the name Pecos mentioned by Czar. Regardless, the OP did say that when he added a split, the temp would spike from 250ļ to 400ļ if he didn't adjust the vents. I don't need to know the brand to determine he's using a COS. One split won't spike the temps in a quality smoker much more than about 5%. In my opinion, this thread should have been titled "Done with poorly designed stick burners". I think someone who is highly skilled in fire management can get decent results from a COS but in the case of offset smoking with wood, people learning the craft are better off with really good equipment because they are much easier to use.

sudsandswine
12-07-2017, 07:30 AM
https://i.imgur.com/f7FdEdG_d.jpg

bonz50
12-07-2017, 07:37 AM
I brought a chimney full to red hot and dumped it in the cooker. I added a fresh chimney about every hour. All intakes wide open, 1.75"" of exhaust wide open. Temp would get to 310 and slowly die down to 225 then I would add another chimney of lump.

not to be a nitpick, honest question, how is this different than adding a split every hour in a stick burner?

el luchador
12-07-2017, 07:38 AM
I'm not sure that is the right conclusion. You were burning charcoal, not embers. Food tastes different choked over lump charcoal than on an Argentinian grill, to illustrate this.

And wood can burn so clean and with so much airflow that the smoke profile can remain very light indeed.

As with everything fire it's really complex, and the amount of oxygen and rate of combustion have as much to do with the resulting flavour profile as the material being burned, IMO.

Im not going to disagree with you. but, keep an open mind and try it. you might like it :wink:

el luchador
12-07-2017, 07:55 AM
After reading through 7 pages of this thread, I don't think anyone's mind is going to be changing about what type of smoker they like to use. I would just like to say to all of you who might be thinking of buying an offset at some point, either buy a good one made of at least 1/4" thick steel or don't waste your money. I didn't see where the OP actually mentioned what model smoker he had but I saw the name Pecos mentioned by Czar. Regardless, the OP did say that when he added a split, the temp would spike from 250ļ to 400ļ if he didn't adjust the vents. I don't need to know the brand to determine he's using a COS. One split won't spike the temps in a quality smoker much more than about 5%. In my opinion, this thread should have been titled "Done with poorly designed stick burners". I think someone who is highly skilled in fire management can get decent results from a COS but in the case of offset smoking with wood, people learning the craft are better off with really good equipment because they are much easier to use.

That's right. I was cooking on the Pecos, which IMO is the BEST side offset smoker under $500. It is not 1/4" thick but it is well made.

I understand your position but I am loathe to blame the cooker as there are many other variables - moisture content of the wood, skill of the cook, etc. and my position is probably supported since Im sure there are thousands of happy pecos users who have no problems at all with their cooker. :thumb:

not to be a nitpick, honest question, how is this different than adding a split every hour in a stick burner?

very valid question - it is and it isn't.
with roaring lump I still had to go out there and add a chimney every hour or so. the heat output is linear- I mapped it and can post it if requested. so I didn't have to sit there and baby sit the cooker for several minutes. which means one hour was one hour.

with the offset, it was really every 30 minutes to 45 minutes and several times inbetween trying to keep it from getting too cold or too hot. it also took up to 10 minutes everytime I added a log to bring the temp into compliance

so from an effort perspective - if an oven is a 1/10 in effort and a stick burner is 10/10 in effort, burning embers would be a 4/10.

hope this helps

bonz50
12-07-2017, 08:15 AM
That's right. I was cooking on the Pecos, which IMO is the BEST side offset smoker under $500. It is not 1/4" thick but it is well made.

I understand your position but I am loathe to blame the cooker as there are many other variables - moisture content of the wood, skill of the cook, etc. and my position is probably supported since Im sure there are thousands of happy pecos users who have no problems at all with their cooker. :thumb:



very valid question - it is and it isn't.
with roaring lump I still had to go out there and add a chimney every hour or so. the heat output is linear- I mapped it and can post it if requested. so I didn't have to sit there and baby sit the cooker for several minutes. which means one hour was one hour.

with the offset, it was really every 30 minutes to 45 minutes and several times inbetween trying to keep it from getting too cold or too hot. it also took up to 10 minutes everytime I added a log to bring the temp into compliance

so from an effort perspective - if an oven is a 1/10 in effort and a stick burner is 10/10 in effort, burning embers would be a 4/10.

hope this helps

sounds like maybe some others may be on to something that maybe the cooker itself may be the source of the consistency problem. I had similar issues with my WSM when i first got it, took about a year of learning the cooker before I could just add fuel and forget about it.

el luchador
12-07-2017, 09:53 AM
sounds like maybe some others may be on to something that maybe the cooker itself may be the source of the consistency problem. I had similar issues with my WSM when i first got it, took about a year of learning the cooker before I could just add fuel and forget about it.

Im thinking about this, and it seems the two mechanisms to make a stick burner be more consistent are a larger cooker (more to heat up) and a thicker cooker(also more material to keep heated).

So should we conclude that people should not even consider stick burning unless they have $1500+ to spend on a big 1/4" cooker?

bonz50
12-07-2017, 10:19 AM
Im thinking about this, and it seems the two mechanisms to make a stick burner be more consistent are a larger cooker (more to heat up) and a thicker cooker(also more material to keep heated).

So should we conclude that people should not even consider stick burning unless they have $1500+ to spend on a big 1/4" cooker?

while I don't disagree with the premise, some of the cheaper cookers I've seen (OK Joe Longhorn as an example) can be made to be decent with mods, but your $500 longhorn ends up with $3-500 in mods plus time to perform the mods. so I guess ~$1500 isn't that out of line once you consider the cost of mods

pjtexas1
12-07-2017, 10:52 AM
if you add sticks and you temp jumps that much you need to adjust the size of your splits. but that just goes back to another point you were trying to make about it taking too much effort/time to split the splits again.

blazinfire
12-07-2017, 10:56 AM
if you add sticks and you temp jumps that much you need to adjust the size of your splits. but that just goes back to another point you were trying to make about it taking too much effort/time to split the splits again.

Curious question, as I've been trying to figure this out mathematically in my head ever since I started cooking BBQ as each time its different it seems LOL.. larger splits would cause a larger temp jump?

I always assumed adding smaller splits would have a quicker/higher temp jump than adding a larger log.

Rockinar
12-07-2017, 10:56 AM
My opinion, an offset needs to be 1/4". Less than that requires too much work. It can be done but I think even I would throw in the towel. Sometimes when I'm at Academy I will look at the Old Country smokers. The fit/finish is horrible and the metal is thin. I can see how it would be a lot of work. No way it holds much heat. On my offset the coal bed can be almost gone and it will still be 200*. Thats not going to happen with thin metal. The temp is going to reflect the size of your fire.

bonz50
12-07-2017, 10:59 AM
Curious question, as I've been trying to figure this out mathematically in my head ever since I started cooking BBQ as each time its different it seems LOL.. larger splits would cause a larger temp jump?

I always assumed adding smaller splits would have a quicker/higher temp jump than adding a larger log.

that's what I would have thought as well, more surface area=more flame=more heat

but I don't know if its correct.

el luchador
12-07-2017, 11:13 AM
that's what I would have thought as well, more surface area=more flame=more heat

but I don't know if its correct.

ive tested this so I can speak to this one- I also thought that larger splits should have less temp gain than smaller splits because they have more wood that is not ignited, even though they have more area.

well, I am here to let you know, you put a big split in the box and it catches ? - game over. once it catches flames its going to be way hotter than a smaller split because it has more surface area releasing BTUs into the cooker.

DRMSMKER
12-07-2017, 11:23 AM
I started cooking with my egg around 2005. I had a heavy Oklahoma Joe prior to that that I never really learned because I didnít take the time. The egg made it it so easy. I still have that same egg. Next, I bought a Traeger Texas. It was even easier. I plugged it in and tried to set it and forget it just like the commercials said. Like a post above, I could never let any of those cookers be. I guess you can say that I never ďtrustedĒ any of them.

To this day, Iíve had a Pitmaker Vault, Yoder YS640, PBS and a Gateway drum on top of all of the above cookers. I never learned to trust any of them...and was able to go to sleep or the kids or grandkids ďgamesĒ. I have always needed to know ďwhere itís atĒ.

Iíve won several GCís and RCís at competitions while winning at Samís, IBCA, LSBS and KCBS competitions. Iíve qualified for and attended the American Royal Invitational as well as the World Food Championship when it was in Las Vegas.

I have always been too anal to allow myself more than probably more than 2 hours without checking my cooker.

What I am saying I guess, is if you trust whatever tool you choose to do the cooking for you; you are more of a relaxed cooker than I have ever have been despite the multiple attempts and the thousands of dollars I have spent in that pursuit.

Me? I give up. Iíll sit by the fire and feed it.

I'm like you with my drum... I'm looking into the tappecue which will let you see your temps on your phone from anywhere as long as your house has internet. Will give me peace of mind. Already have a wireless unit but still haven't trusted my drum to go all night yet....

blazinfire
12-07-2017, 11:24 AM
ive tested this so I can speak to this one- I also thought that larger splits should have less temp gain than smaller splits because they have more wood that is not ignited, even though they have more area.

well, I am here to let you know, you put a big split in the box and it catches ? - game over. once it catches flames its going to be way hotter than a smaller split because it has more surface area releasing BTUs into the cooker.

Yeah. makes for a good discussion. I can see where your going with this. Smaller splits probably would have a faster temp swing, but a larger piece of wood would take longer to reach higher temps but would ultimately burn longer and create more heat..

el luchador
12-07-2017, 11:43 AM
I'm like you with my drum... I'm looking into the tappecue which will let you see your temps on your phone from anywhere as long as your house has internet. Will give me peace of mind. Already have a wireless unit but still haven't trusted my drum to go all night yet....

that tappecue is not a bad price for the unit with 4 probes. but a couple of things.

1. does it interface through the tappecue cloud or just through your home router? if their cloud is down does that mean your unit wont work?
2. does it have an option for fan control?

a heatermeter is about the same price and it does not use a cloud server. you can access the heatermeter ip address directly through a port,
and it will control a fan for even more temp control.

Yeah. makes for a good discussion. I can see where your going with this. Smaller splits probably would have a faster temp swing, but a larger piece of wood would take longer to reach higher temps but would ultimately burn longer and create more heat..

that's what Ive experience. yes.

el luchador
12-07-2017, 11:47 AM
My opinion, an offset needs to be 1/4". Less than that requires too much work. It can be done but I think even I would throw in the towel. Sometimes when I'm at Academy I will look at the Old Country smokers. The fit/finish is horrible and the metal is thin. I can see how it would be a lot of work. No way it holds much heat. On my offset the coal bed can be almost gone and it will still be 200*. Thats not going to happen with thin metal. The temp is going to reflect the size of your fire.

this seems to be a recurring theme here. Maybe you guys have a point :-D

not that I can afford an expensive unit (I don't like Q THAT much) but Im really loving the clean clean clean smoke of embers right now so I doubt that I will ever crave a stick burner again.

but as they say, never say never :becky:

JokerBroker
12-07-2017, 11:53 AM
On a side note, nice work el luchador on becoming a Full Fledged Farker in only 2 months! Now... :focus:

ChrisBarb
12-07-2017, 11:56 AM
They sound like what you are looking for in a grill that that smoke, grill, seer. You'll make amazing brisket, pulled pork, ribs, wings, chicken, steaks and the best pizzas on the planet.

Make sure you get one with a lifetime warranty.

You will never regret a BGE, Kamado Joe, Primo or other.

Absolutely anything that you can cook in an indoor oven can be cooked with ease on your ceramic kamado.


You can also go the route that many, myself included, have gone....buy a Akorn kamado from Char Griller. Can be had for $299.

Air flow is the same as it's ceramic cousins....it is slightly more finicky if you overshoot your target temp, so more care is needed in how you start your fires for slow'n'low cooks. That being said....once you lock into the temp you are golden.

I bought an Akorn and found myself using that bad boy several times a week for three years. I simply wore it slam out. My family went nuts over my grilling in ways they'd never done before. In my opinion.....it's the best grilling money I've ever spent.
Actually, much better option for a metal kamado, is the Bubba/Broil King Keg. https://www.broilkingbbq.com/grills/keg

One Drop
12-07-2017, 12:03 PM
Im not going to disagree with you. but, keep an open mind and try it. you might like it :wink:

I have done, I've nothing against it, and I have no horse in this race. If it's your hobby or passion and you aren't loving the process then there is no reason in the world I would want to convince you to do other than that which makes you happy.

As a chef by profession my daily life has been to make the best of whatever tools and ingredients are at hand. I was just pointing out that charcoal and embers are different, and you seem to like cooking over embers.

With the increasing popularity of stick burners, many have forgotten the great art of cooking over logs freshly burnt to embers and shovelled into a pit. It's a killer way to smoke food that is also a huge favorite of mine when i've had the chance to attempt it, and the results are fabulous.

el luchador
12-07-2017, 12:25 PM
I have done, I've nothing against it, and I have no horse in this race. If it's your hobby or passion and you aren't loving the process then there is no reason in the world I would want to convince you to do other than that which makes you happy.

As a chef by profession my daily life has been to make the best of whatever tools and ingredients are at hand. I was just pointing out that charcoal and embers are different, and you seem to like cooking over embers.

With the increasing popularity of stick burners, many have forgotten the great art of cooking over logs freshly burnt to embers and shovelled into a pit. It's a killer way to smoke food that is also a huge favorite of mine when i've had the chance to attempt it, and the results are fabulous.


yes sir! as I said earlier in the thread, the best heat and smoke out of my stick burner was when it was down to the glowing embers and there was no smoke emanating from the cooker. It just smelled like heat and it was awesome. When I put my hand over the exhaust the smell was just pure.

now, Im not going to pretend like I know anything about anything, so maybe you can help.

in my limited understanding wood becomes embers when everything else is burned off and all that's left is carbon? and lump charcoal is carbonized wood?

now the heat I got out of the glowing lump charcoal smelled and acted like the ember stage of wood.

Pray, tell, what are the differences between red hot fresh embers and red hot lump charcoal?

(btw, I still have a bunch of pecan logs left. Guess whats going to be made out of them :-D )

sudsandswine
12-07-2017, 12:29 PM
Charcoal is made by super heating wood in an environment lacking oxygen, where as log embers are...burned down logs from a fire.

bonz50
12-07-2017, 12:50 PM
(I don't like Q THAT much)

does not compute

but Im really loving the clean clean clean smoke of charcoal right now so I doubt that I will ever crave a stick burner again.

fixed that for ya :thumb:

el luchador
12-07-2017, 12:52 PM
On a side note, nice work el luchador on becoming a Full Fledged Farker in only 2 months! Now... :focus:
wow thanks. I have no idea what that means but it sounds like a good thing :-D

Charcoal is made by super heating wood in an environment lacking oxygen, where as log embers are...burned down logs from a fire.

(if you take a cooled down wood ember and a piece of cold lump charcoal. how chemically different are they?)

lol. what I mean is aren't they both just almost pure carbon?


does not compute


fixed that for ya :thumb:

hahaha. Don't hate :becky:

im not saying, Im just saying.

sudsandswine
12-07-2017, 12:57 PM
No idea, that's a question for the charcoal companies...but I'm sure there's a reason restaurants burn down logs for embers instead of chimneys of charcoal, and it's probably more than just cost related :thumb:

Both sound like WAY more work to me than feeding logs too.

el luchador
12-07-2017, 01:06 PM
No idea, that's a question for the charcoal companies...but I'm sure there's a reason restaurants burn down logs for embers instead of chimneys of charcoal, and it's probably more than just cost related :thumb:

Both sound like WAY more work to me than feeding logs too.

In one of the videos I saw about a bbq joint that still uses wood embers, they used to get some or most of their wood for FREE.

the probably has something to do with it?

jestridge
12-07-2017, 01:11 PM
Most charcoal, also have coal and pine in it , also a bonding agent to hole the cubes together
Unless it lump charcoal

IXL
12-07-2017, 01:47 PM
this seems to be a recurring theme here. Maybe you guys have a point :-D

not that I can afford an expensive unit (I don't like Q THAT much) but Im really loving the clean clean clean smoke of embers right now so I doubt that I will ever crave a stick burner again.

but as they say, never say never :becky:

You live in Carrollton, Texas: you HAVE to like Q THAT much....

el luchador
12-07-2017, 01:50 PM
Most charcoal, also have coal and pine in it , also a bonding agent to hole the cubes together
Unless it lump charcoal


I was using pure hardwood lump embers :becky:

el luchador
12-07-2017, 01:55 PM
You live in Carrollton, Texas: you HAVE to like Q THAT much....

meh. sous vide is better
(runs and ducks for cover)

that was a joke btw in case a mod is reading. I don't need the ban hammer coming down on me for a joke :-D

IXL
12-07-2017, 01:56 PM
............
.......With the increasing popularity of stick burners, many have forgotten the great art of cooking over logs freshly burnt to embers and shovelled into a pit. It's a killer way to smoke food that is also a huge favorite of mine when i've had the chance to attempt it, and the results are fabulous.

We cook with this style sometimes and everyone really likes it. We frequently cook over cedar embers, a wood that many will advise is not suitable for cooking, because of the resins present. Not only does it work, but it is tasty, as well. One merely needs to ensure the wood is completely reduced to embers first, which for us generally means utilizing a burn pit.

mstewart39
12-07-2017, 01:56 PM
meh. sous vide is better
(runs and ducks for cover)

that was a joke btw in case a mod is reading. I don't need the ban hammer coming down on me for a joke :-D

You joke, but after having sous vide short ribs I'll probably never do them on the smoker ever again. Just sayin'.

pjtexas1
12-07-2017, 01:56 PM
that tappecue is not a bad price for the unit with 4 probes. but a couple of things.

1. does it interface through the tappecue cloud or just through your home router? if their cloud is down does that mean your unit wont work?
2. does it have an option for fan control?

a heatermeter is about the same price and it does not use a cloud server. you can access the heatermeter ip address directly through a port,
and it will control a fan for even more temp control.



that's what Ive experience. yes.

don't forget the HM can be setup with a RotoDamper that allows you to remotely close off the intake completely if you needed that for some reason.

Czarbecue
12-07-2017, 02:05 PM
On a side note, nice work el luchador on becoming a Full Fledged Farker in only 2 months! Now... :focus:


I think he achieved that by defending the original post :boxing:

JokerBroker
12-07-2017, 02:15 PM
wow thanks. I have no idea what that means but it sounds like a good thing :-D

Lurker with a can of lighter fluid and bag of matchlight 0 posts
Threw out the match light 2 posts
Got rid of the lighter fluid 5 posts
Is lookin for wood to cook with 15 posts
Got Wood 30 posts
Knows what a fatty is 50 posts
On the road to being a farker 100 posts
Full Fledged Farker 200 posts
Take a breath! 500 posts
Smokin' Farker 550 posts
One Chatty Farker 1000 posts
Is Blowin Smoke 2000 posts
Babbling Farker 2500 posts
Quintessential Chatty Farker 5000 posts
Somebody shut me the fark up!! 6500 posts

el luchador
12-07-2017, 03:17 PM
You joke, but after having sous vide short ribs I'll probably never do them on the smoker ever again. Just sayin'.

I've never even tasted sous vide but I'll tell you what I had some braised short ribs that were cooked in a white wine/port wine/mirepoix mix -zomg they were awesome

don't forget the HM can be setup with a RotoDamper that allows you to remotely close off the intake completely if you needed that for some reason.

Great point. Thanks for sharing

el luchador
12-07-2017, 03:19 PM
I think he achieved that by defending the original post :boxing:

What's there to defend. It is now a known fact that cooking with embers is superior to cooking with wood. The debate is ended :boxing: :becky:

Lurker with a can of lighter fluid and bag of matchlight 0 posts
Threw out the match light 2 posts
Got rid of the lighter fluid 5 posts
Is lookin for wood to cook with 15 posts
Got Wood 30 posts
Knows what a fatty is 50 posts
On the road to being a farker 100 posts
Full Fledged Farker 200 posts
Take a breath! 500 posts
Smokin' Farker 550 posts
One Chatty Farker 1000 posts
Is Blowin Smoke 2000 posts
Babbling Farker 2500 posts
Quintessential Chatty Farker 5000 posts
Somebody shut me the fark up!! 6500 posts

Ahh that's great to know. Thanks :thumb:

DubfromGA
12-07-2017, 04:15 PM
Actually, much better option for a metal kamado, is the Bubba/Broil King Keg. https://www.broilkingbbq.com/grills/keg

Doubtful.


OP scoffed at at a $299 Akorn.....doubtful he'll entertain the cost of a Bubba Keg. :heh:

el luchador
12-07-2017, 04:55 PM
Doubtful.


OP scoffed at at a $299 Akorn.....doubtful he'll entertain the cost of a Bubba Keg. :heh:

I didnt scoff, did I ?
I was actually referring to the big expensive brittle ceramics. Its my understanding that the akorn kamado is not a ceramic cooker? or is that wrong?


(uds for life \m/ :rockon: )

70monte
12-07-2017, 08:59 PM
I didnt scoff, did I ?
I was actually referring to the big expensive brittle ceramics. Its my understanding that the akorn kamado is not a ceramic cooker? or is that wrong?


(uds for life \m/ :rockon: )

You are correct. The Akorn is not ceramic, it is metal.

olddawg
12-07-2017, 09:29 PM
I love my pellet grill no related to post but
what the hell I love my pitboss

ElQueTraz
12-07-2017, 10:04 PM
I think Gravity Feeds produce some of the cleanest blue smoke there is. If you like light smoke flavor, these do the trick. IMO

One Drop
12-08-2017, 01:21 AM
yes sir! as I said earlier in the thread, the best heat and smoke out of my stick burner was when it was down to the glowing embers and there was no smoke emanating from the cooker. It just smelled like heat and it was awesome. When I put my hand over the exhaust the smell was just pure.

now, Im not going to pretend like I know anything about anything, so maybe you can help.

in my limited understanding wood becomes embers when everything else is burned off and all that's left is carbon? and lump charcoal is carbonized wood?

now the heat I got out of the glowing lump charcoal smelled and acted like the ember stage of wood.

Pray, tell, what are the differences between red hot fresh embers and red hot lump charcoal?

(btw, I still have a bunch of pecan logs left. Guess whats going to be made out of them :-D )

My understanding is that charcoal is almost 100% carbon, it's called char.

When wood burns with more oxygen present, it creates char, which continues to burn, and also volatile gases, which at certain temperatures impart different more or less desirable flavours to the meat that is exposed to it.

Those embers burning still have some volatile gases present to impart flavour to the meat, the burning char does impart flavour ss well, but far less, and less complex.

So charcoal is a purer form of carbon than embers from burning logs.

bonz50
12-08-2017, 07:33 AM
My understanding is that charcoal is almost 100% carbon, it's called char.

When wood burns with more oxygen present, it creates char, which continues two burn, and also volatile gases, which at certain temperatures impart different more or less desirable flavours to the meat that is exposed to it.

Those embers burning still have some volatile gases present to impart flavour to the meat, the burning char does impart flavour ss well, but far less, and less complex.

So charcoal is a purer form of carbon than embers from burning logs.

Karau: "The key point is that wood is not a fuel, it is a fuel source. When wood is heated, it decomposes into two fuels: charcoal (a solid fuel that burns in a surface oxidation) and smoke (a gaseous fuel that either burns as flame or escapes the firebox unburned to re-condense in the cook box as creosote). I say again, smoke is a fuel. It contains about half of the total caloric content of wood. It burns as a flame with sufficient heat and oxygen presentÖ."

https://amazingribs.com/model/smoker/karubecue-c-60-pit

pretty interesting tidbit about the nature of wood fuel

barry w
12-08-2017, 09:08 AM
This post has been great to follow. I have not been persuaded to sell my stick burner. It is the process that I love to do, always has been for me. The process goes way back for me to when we would pull a pig off the feed floor and smoke it for friends. The food and the gathering were nice but the enjoyment really was the over night hanging out with the skeleton crew. Now that I am retired the long cooks come more often.

6_Myles
12-08-2017, 09:53 AM
excellent thread to read.

I enjoy all the various ways I can cook meat, all at different times, and all for different reasons.

'It takes all kinds' - My Grandma Iris

bcm1947
12-08-2017, 10:49 AM
I am new on this forum, but have frequented it numerous times over the past couple of years. I am just a backyard enthusiast and my only cooker is an 18.5 WSM. I am responding to this post, because I have often thought I would like to have a stick burner, but my determination to make good bbq on what I already own (18.5 WSM) has kept me plugging on with it. I wanted to get away from briquettes and the Minion method and just go with lump charcoal.
My method in the WSM is top and bottom vents fully open, and use lump charcoal which gives me a clean burn (nice blue smoke) and add my smoke wood in small chunks, not large chunks to the lump charcoal bed. I prefabbed a smaller diameter charcoal ring to keep my lump grouped together for better burning. I light 1/2 chimney of lump initially with a small wood chunk on bottom and one on top of the lump. when my coals are ignited and burning good they go into the smaller diameter ring. My temps run about 250 to 275 degrees. I add prelit lump and a prelit chunk of smoke wood periodically thru the door to hold these temps. This method gets the smoke flavor and smoke ring I desire. I am just using lump charcoal as my heat source. It needs fuel added periodically just like a sticky burner. My substitute for a stick burner. Thank You

One Drop
12-08-2017, 11:47 AM
I am new on this forum, but have frequented it numerous times over the past couple of years. I am just a backyard enthusiast and my only cooker is an 18.5 WSM. I am responding to this post, because I have often thought I would like to have a stick burner, but my determination to make good bbq on what I already own (18.5 WSM) has kept me plugging on with it. I wanted to get away from briquettes and the Minion method and just go with lump charcoal.
My method in the WSM is top and bottom vents fully open, and use lump charcoal which gives me a clean burn (nice blue smoke) and add my smoke wood in small chunks, not large chunks to the lump charcoal bed. I prefabbed a smaller diameter charcoal ring to keep my lump grouped together for better burning. I light 1/2 chimney of lump initially with a small wood chunk on bottom and one on top of the lump. when my coals are ignited and burning good they go into the smaller diameter ring. My temps run about 250 to 275 degrees. I add prelit lump and a prelit chunk of smoke wood periodically thru the door to hold these temps. This method gets the smoke flavor and smoke ring I desire. I am just using lump charcoal as my heat source. It needs fuel added periodically just like a sticky burner. My substitute for a stick burner. Thank You

Interesting approach!

baconator
12-08-2017, 12:08 PM
I have a small Chargriller cheap offset smoker at home. It is very labor intensive to maintain temperature control. I end up using hardwood chunks about the size of two fists and just monitoring it continuously. It is fun when I have time and I get pretty good results. About once a year I do a large cook for a group of people at church. We rent a Bubba grill (250g I think)and cook about 45 racks of ribs. I am amazed at how stable the temperatures are on the Bubba grill. It needs very little input. It turns out some great BBQ with pretty consistent smoke. I would love to buy one for home use someday!
Mike

bcm1947
12-08-2017, 12:51 PM
I use white oak and hickory for smoking wood mostly. That clean burn I get with the vents fully open and the lump for a heat source, pretty much alleviates the white smoke. I had problems at first keeping my temps down, but now that i've learned how much lump to light each time I add charcoal, my results have improved. Just trying to get what I believe tastes more like bbq cooked on a stick burner without having a stick burner. I do mostly pulled pork for my family and church friends.

pjtexas1
12-08-2017, 01:09 PM
i am very surprised that so many are burning separate fires of lump just to add to their charcoal cookers. not that it is wrong but i just did not realize people did this. i learn new stuff here all the time. :thumb:

W.I.T.W.A.G?
12-08-2017, 01:12 PM
Personally I love that stick burning takes all of the extra attention. To me it makes BBQ an active thing rather than just set it and forget it. I like managing a fire AND the flavor that comes with it. I see where you're coming from though it's not easy, and if you cant tell the flavor difference I could see where it would be tough to keep struggling.

bcm1947
12-08-2017, 01:49 PM
Aaron Franklin talks about the importance of good air flow in bbq pits. He keeps his pit drafting good with that blue smoke coming out the stack. That's why I keep all my vents wide open and just add enough already lit lump charcoal to the smoker to keep a good bed of coals working for me. It burns very clean.

4ever3
12-08-2017, 07:41 PM
BUILD A UDS!!!!


(well chit, someone had ta say it:becky:)

el luchador
12-08-2017, 10:28 PM
You are correct. The Akorn is not ceramic, it is metal.

thanks for clarifying that

I think Gravity Feeds produce some of the cleanest blue smoke there is. If you like light smoke flavor, these do the trick. IMO

thanks.

My understanding is that charcoal is almost 100% carbon, it's called char.

When wood burns with more oxygen present, it creates char, which continues to burn, and also volatile gases, which at certain temperatures impart different more or less desirable flavours to the meat that is exposed to it.

Those embers burning still have some volatile gases present to impart flavour to the meat, the burning char does impart flavour ss well, but far less, and less complex.

So charcoal is a purer form of carbon than embers from burning logs.

copy. this is something I definitely would like to try out to compare. I can see how there may be some additional flavor components in wood embers vs lump embers.

Karau: "The key point is that wood is not a fuel, it is a fuel source. When wood is heated, it decomposes into two fuels: charcoal (a solid fuel that burns in a surface oxidation) and smoke (a gaseous fuel that either burns as flame or escapes the firebox unburned to re-condense in the cook box as creosote). I say again, smoke is a fuel. It contains about half of the total caloric content of wood. It burns as a flame with sufficient heat and oxygen presentÖ."

https://amazingribs.com/model/smoker/karubecue-c-60-pit

pretty interesting tidbit about the nature of wood fuel

is he saying smoke is good , or smoke is not good? Im not sure.

This post has been great to follow. I have not been persuaded to sell my stick burner. It is the process that I love to do, always has been for me. The process goes way back for me to when we would pull a pig off the feed floor and smoke it for friends. The food and the gathering were nice but the enjoyment really was the over night hanging out with the skeleton crew. Now that I am retired the long cooks come more often.

:thumb:
Im counting down the years till Im able to retire. only 30 or so more to go now :)

el luchador
12-08-2017, 10:31 PM
I am new on this forum, but have frequented it numerous times over the past couple of years. I am just a backyard enthusiast and my only cooker is an 18.5 WSM. I am responding to this post, because I have often thought I would like to have a stick burner, but my determination to make good bbq on what I already own (18.5 WSM) has kept me plugging on with it. I wanted to get away from briquettes and the Minion method and just go with lump charcoal.
My method in the WSM is top and bottom vents fully open, and use lump charcoal which gives me a clean burn (nice blue smoke) and add my smoke wood in small chunks, not large chunks to the lump charcoal bed. I prefabbed a smaller diameter charcoal ring to keep my lump grouped together for better burning. I light 1/2 chimney of lump initially with a small wood chunk on bottom and one on top of the lump. when my coals are ignited and burning good they go into the smaller diameter ring. My temps run about 250 to 275 degrees. I add prelit lump and a prelit chunk of smoke wood periodically thru the door to hold these temps. This method gets the smoke flavor and smoke ring I desire. I am just using lump charcoal as my heat source. It needs fuel added periodically just like a sticky burner. My substitute for a stick burner. Thank You

great post! Welcome to the board.

so you are still burning "stick" but you have created a nice base of embers with lump charcoal and you just burn small sticks for flavor.

have you had a chance to try it with the lump only and no wood chunks?

bonz50
12-08-2017, 10:32 PM
thanks for clarifying that

is he saying smoke is good , or smoke is not good? Im not sure.

I think he's saying simply that smoke and charcoal are two fuel sources produced by wood. not that the wood itself is the fuel but that wood is the source of the fuel (fine line I know). I found it an interesting tidbit about how the smoking/heating processes work. different than I expected that's for damn sure.

el luchador
12-08-2017, 10:39 PM
I use white oak and hickory for smoking wood mostly. That clean burn I get with the vents fully open and the lump for a heat source, pretty much alleviates the white smoke. I had problems at first keeping my temps down, but now that i've learned how much lump to light each time I add charcoal, my results have improved. Just trying to get what I believe tastes more like bbq cooked on a stick burner without having a stick burner. I do mostly pulled pork for my family and church friends.

how much burn time do you get with half a chimney?

i am very surprised that so many are burning separate fires of lump just to add to their charcoal cookers. not that it is wrong but i just did not realize people did this. i learn new stuff here all the time. :thumb:

you know that many of the old school bbq joints had a separate burn barrel and shoveled the wood embers under the food .

now as far as burning lump, its a revelation for me. I had used it in my uds before because it didnt keep temp as well as briquettes so I switched back to briquettes, but after seeing how clean it is from the get go, and how dirty briquettes are until white hot, I dont know how I will ever be able to go back to briquettes again. the thought of all that junk slowly burning onto my food in a uds is scary.

how do harry soo and others do so well with briquettes. mind boggling.

Personally I love that stick burning takes all of the extra attention. To me it makes BBQ an active thing rather than just set it and forget it. I like managing a fire AND the flavor that comes with it. I see where you're coming from though it's not easy, and if you cant tell the flavor difference I could see where it would be tough to keep struggling.

I also see where you are coming from. I think it can be said that , for some, managing that fire, is part of the hobby for them.

BUILD A UDS!!!!


(well chit, someone had ta say it:becky:)

I knew someone was going to say that . a UDS is not all its cracked up to be. TWO UDSs? now were cooking with fire :becky:

for the record, I have TWO uds's and I really should build a third one for hotdogs and fish
and fourth one to replace my weber kettle

UDS LIFE :rockon::rockon::rockon:

overeasy
12-08-2017, 10:48 PM
Wow... what the hell are U all talking about?

el luchador
12-08-2017, 11:24 PM
I think he's saying simply that smoke and charcoal are two fuel sources produced by wood. not that the wood itself is the fuel but that wood is the source of the fuel (fine line I know). I found it an interesting tidbit about how the smoking/heating processes work. different than I expected that's for damn sure.

got it. that IS interesting. it threw me off when he said smoke fuel was creosote, almost like he didnt like the idea of the smoke actually touching the food.

I plan to continue experimenting with only lump embers for now. to make it even more traditional, I think I will remove my diffuser and let the fat drop right on the fire.

good times.

el luchador
12-08-2017, 11:27 PM
Wow... what the hell are U all talking about?

lets see.

1. cheap stick burners are hard work
2. some find the stick burning labor enjoyable and a vital part of the process.
3. large and/or heavy stick burners are not as hard to work as the cheap ones

bonus - build a UDS!

hey you have a pecos. thoughts?

bcm1947
12-09-2017, 02:07 PM
great post! Welcome to the board.

so you are still burning "stick" but you have created a nice base of embers with lump charcoal and you just burn small sticks for flavor.

have you had a chance to try it with the lump only and no wood chunks?


Perhaps I have confused some people. I only use lump charcoal. In fact i have been using this technique with B&B lump charcoal only. I have never tried it with briquettes, but I'm certain it would work using briquettes if you let them ash over first.

bcm1947
12-09-2017, 02:20 PM
Perhaps I have confused some people. I only use lump charcoal. In fact i have been using this technique with B&B lump charcoal only. I have never tried it with briquettes, but I'm certain it would work using briquettes if you let them ash over first.

This whole idea of trying to get the authentic taste that a stick burner offers has led me to use lump charcoal instead of briquettes in my WSM. I wanted the purest form of wood char that I could get. As stated above briquettes could be used, but I chose to go with lump for the entire smoking process.

I don't own a stick burner, but I get great bbq taste by using B&B Oak lump and adding small chunks of hickory & white oak for smoke taste during the cook on my WSM.

bcm1947
12-09-2017, 03:41 PM
El Luchador,
You asked about how much burn time i got out of 1/2 chimney of lump. The 1/2 chimney is my initial charge and it is prel-lit to start up the WSM.
Normally i get 30 to 45 minutes before the smoker temp drops to 225 degrees. Then I add a small amount of lump after that initial charge, which is usually about 1/4 chimney of lump and I pre light it as well. I do pre light the lump each time I add it to the smoker. I also add my small smoke chunks to the chimney as I am pre lighting the lump. This technique alows me to keep that blue smoke i am looking for in my smoker..

smoke ninja
12-09-2017, 04:10 PM
This whole idea of trying to get the authentic taste that a stick burner offers has led me to use lump charcoal instead of briquettes in my WSM. I wanted the purest form of wood char that I could get. As stated above briquettes could be used, but I chose to go with lump for the entire smoking process.

I don't own a stick burner, but I get great bbq taste by using B&B Oak lump and adding small chunks of hickory & white oak for smoke taste during the cook on my WSM.

I moved off a wsm and to a stick burner as i preferred the cleaner light smoke. I figured its a factor of the minion burn and did consider adding lit fuel only. Lately if i want a no fuss cook its on the kettle with a snake setup and that silly wood infused charcoal. Gives that lighter flavor.

bcm1947
12-09-2017, 04:16 PM
I moved off a wsm and to a stick burner as i preferred the cleaner light smoke. I figured its a factor of the minion burn and did consider adding lit fuel only. Lately if i want a no fuss cook its on the kettle with a snake setup and that silly wood infused charcoal. Gives that lighter flavor.

I appreciate your comment, and I totally agree with you concerning the Minion method
I have friends that use briquettes and I like their bbq, but I prefer the taste of bbq cooked with a clean burning fire.

el luchador
12-09-2017, 04:20 PM
I moved off a wsm and to a stick burner as i preferred the cleaner light smoke. I figured its a factor of the minion burn and did consider adding lit fuel only. Lately if i want a no fuss cook its on the kettle with a snake setup and that silly wood infused charcoal. Gives that lighter flavor.

I submit that it is a factor of both the minion method and the use of briquettes.

Since I was starting my stick burner with briquettes, I would light them up in the chimney. white, hard smelling smoke for days!

having that in a charcoal smoker and having cold briquettes slowly light off and give off that smoke, is not a good thing in my book.

Royal oak lump gives off almost zero smoke from the get go, and almost no dirty wood smell either.

bcm1947
12-09-2017, 05:52 PM
I would use RO if B&B was not available at my local Walmart. I can usually get 3 cooks from a 20 lb bag. I don't know that it is better than RO though.

Eric In STL
12-09-2017, 06:00 PM
has anyone tried to minion with lump in a wsm and how long of a burn time did u get?

Bob C Cue
12-09-2017, 06:10 PM
I do so enjoy the process. Even cooking inside, I enjoy the long cooks. Spaghetti day at my house starts in the early morning and lasts most of the day

Boy you must really like overcooked pasta! :grin:

smoke ninja
12-09-2017, 07:39 PM
has anyone tried to minion with lump in a wsm and how long of a burn time did u get?

Lumps a different animal. Burn times vary due to irregularities in the pieces. When using lump in a wsm try and pack tightly, breaking large pieces if needed. Burn times are slighty less per volume but comparable if done properly

Brew Crew
12-10-2017, 10:07 AM
Be it as may, but you just can't beat a stick burner. Out of most of my fellow bbq buddies I am the only sticker left. Funny how they love my q...

ChrisBarb
12-10-2017, 11:36 AM
Reading through this thread, I am amazed at the stick burner snobbery. It is the cook, not the cooker that truly matters. I would put Harry Soo and his WSM's up against anyone and their $10,000 Shirleys (not a knock on Shirley's, just making a point).

smoke ninja
12-10-2017, 12:07 PM
Reading through this thread, I am amazed at the stick burner snobbery. It is the cook, not the cooker that truly matters. I would put Harry Soo and his WSM's up against anyone and their $10,000 Shirleys (not a knock on Shirley's, just making a point).

Wow. I I've read this thread differnt. Lots of open minds. Many have stated they think wood beats charcoal without being a snob about it. Im a wood guy but it was cold last night and i was lazy so ran charcoal. I doubt my brisket will be my personal favorite but it was a compromise to me. Ive considered that Harry soo and the likes are just better at running a wsm on charcoal then me. Ill make up my short coming by burning sticks until i can get on their level

And yes that was a jab at Shirley owners. Actually they are priced fairly i think a patio model could be had for under $2000. They are a deal when you consider how well they hold value. The go for retail and above on the secondary market, probably a factor of wait times

JokerBroker
12-10-2017, 12:11 PM
Reading through this thread, I am amazed at the stick burner snobbery.

It's funny how different people can read through the same thread and get a totally different takeaway. I didn't sense any snobbery on behalf of stick burners. I got the impression, along with my own personal experience, that if you are willing and able to take the time to tend to a wood fire, you can achieve results that the majority of people in the BBQ world would concede are, at a minimum, a little bit better than any other type of cooker available and in some cases, quite a bit better. That overall belief from numerous sources is what enticed me to invest in an offset and now that I own one, I'm convinced it's true even more. My other takeaway is that a well designed stick burner is easier to maintain temps than a poorly designed one, which I already knew.

ChrisBarb
12-10-2017, 12:29 PM
Maybe I shouldn't have said "snobbery". My point was that stick burners are not inherently better than charcoal burners. It always comes down to the skill of the cook.

smoke ninja
12-10-2017, 12:53 PM
Maybe I shouldn't have said "snobbery". My point was that stick burners are not inherently better than charcoal burners. It always comes down to the skill of the cook.


Dont back pedal too fast.

i think a # of us do have the opinion that for our tastes all things being equal wood is better.

One plus for charcoal is being able to focus more on things instead of fire management, something that can help in comp settings where true wood bbq flavor may not be the most important.

These are of couse opinions. I feel that stick burners with indirect heat are better for certain types/styles of bbq. Same goes for pits with direct fire heat. The pit is imperative to the style. Im not making texas brisket the same on a weber or carolina pork shoulder on an egg. Many say its the cook not the cooker but the cooker has an effect on the bbq.......imho

JokerBroker
12-10-2017, 01:05 PM
Charcoal is for heat and wood is for flavor. Having said that, the quality of the raw food and the seasonings are far more important than the heat source and the biggest thing is getting the food off of the heat at the right internal temperature.

el luchador
12-10-2017, 01:33 PM
Be it as may, but you just can't beat a stick burner. Out of most of my fellow bbq buddies I am the only sticker left. Funny how they love my q...

I wonder if they would still love your Q if you used a charcoal burner. my guess would be yes :wink:

Maybe I shouldn't have said "snobbery". My point was that stick burners are not inherently better than charcoal burners. It always comes down to the skill of the cook.

I think I understood where you were coming from. the thread has been positive so far but one could get the impression that the general consensus is that wood is a better flavor than charcoal. I would agree that wood is probably better than charcoal briquettes, but maybe not better than roaring embers.

Dont back pedal too fast.

i think a # of us do have the opinion that for our tastes all things being equal wood is better.

One plus for charcoal is being able to focus more on things instead of fire management, something that can help in comp settings where true wood bbq flavor may not be the most important.

These are of couse opinions. I feel that stick burners with indirect heat are better for certain types/styles of bbq. Same goes for pits with direct fire heat. The pit is imperative to the style. Im not making texas brisket the same on a weber or carolina pork shoulder on an egg. Many say its the cook not the cooker but the cooker has an effect on the bbq.......imho

of the five esses that make up smoked food (salty, spicy, savory, sweet, smoky) I think you are saying that the smoky flavor of wood burners is better than charcoal burners. many agree with you and its a valid opinion.

here is my thinking- the holy grail of smoked food is to be barely able to taste the smoke. wood burners win this battle vs briquettes( which make up 95% of the charcoal sold in the US)
but it also seems that, while it is a lot of work, pure burning wood embers have a better flavor than using wood.

Ive always found it interesting that a lot of the global smoked food in other parts of the world use charcoal and not wood. could it be that wood smoked food is an acquired taste?

Moose
12-10-2017, 01:34 PM
Dont back pedal too fast.

i think a # of us do have the opinion that for our tastes all things being equal wood is better.

One plus for charcoal is being able to focus more on things instead of fire management, something that can help in comp settings where true wood bbq flavor may not be the most important.

These are of couse opinions. I feel that stick burners with indirect heat are better for certain types/styles of bbq. Same goes for pits with direct fire heat. The pit is imperative to the style. Im not making texas brisket the same on a weber or carolina pork shoulder on an egg. Many say its the cook not the cooker but the cooker has an effect on the bbq.......imho

I couldn't agree more, Ninja. ssv3 really got my curiosity piqued when he told me the flavor profile he got from his stickburner was totally different than that from a drum or kamado. This led me to purchase an Oklahoma Joe Highland that I made some mods to. First cook was ribs, and I can say the flavor was indeed different than my other cookers, in addition to being significantly better, IMHO.

After reading through enough threads about stickbuners, I've come to the realization that a stickburner simply won't provide the kind of temp control that other cookers do, and that's not only OK, but part of the fun. I like the intimacy I get from tending a fire regularly vs a set and forget kind of cooker.

Rockinar
12-10-2017, 01:38 PM
Maybe I shouldn't have said "snobbery". My point was that stick burners are not inherently better than charcoal burners. It always comes down to the skill of the cook.


You said "Its the cook, not the cooker" and "It ALWAYS comes down to the skill of the cook".


Everyone is going to cheerlead for whatever cooker they have and claim their smoker is just as goos as an offset. I get that. But the fact is nobody is lining up for BBQ at 3AM at any place that does not use offsets. And thats for a reason.

SmokePigTails
12-10-2017, 01:43 PM
This entire conversation make me wonder if we will see more Hybrid Cookers, like the M1 and Ironside Smokers. Not sure if there are any other pit builders making them yet. Then again some pellet units sound like they are producing some amazing and easier Q.

pjtexas1
12-10-2017, 02:13 PM
I'll add my experience...
I've owned nearly every type of charcoal cooker and I always will. They produce some really good stuff. That being said the most compliments I get come off my stick burner. Nobody has ever complained about food from any cooker though.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

jasonjax
12-10-2017, 02:24 PM
vinyl = stick burner
cassette = charcoal
CD = gas
blu-ray = pellets

:-P

Beentown
12-10-2017, 02:38 PM
Ive always found it interesting that a lot of the global smoked food in other parts of the world use charcoal and not wood. could it be that wood smoked food is an acquired taste?

They use charcoal out of convienance just like everyone else who uses charcoal, even bbq'ers.

Just to be clear what is your definition of "embers" again?

I have large cookers of almost every type. Stick burner, insulated cabinet, and uninsulated charcoal smokers.

In general, everyone loves the "Q" no matter which cooker I use. I have blind tested stick burner vs cabinet many times and stick burner has won almost every single time. We are at over a 50 test subjects (more than that but being conservative) and can only remember a handful (less than 10, for sure) preferring the charcoal cookers. I may do this semi-scientifically to get real numbers since I cook on both many times, same meat/prep/temp.

Does this mean I wanna get rid of my charcoal cookers? No. They have their place and that is a HUGE place. Convienance is awesome especially when sleep is concerned.




Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Jason TQ
12-10-2017, 02:41 PM
But the fact is nobody is lining up for BBQ at 3AM at any place that does not use offsets. And thats for a reason.

Good marketing, having prior exposure on television and being in an awesome hipster foodie clique that enjoys people that don't shave and drink craft beer?? :-P :bow:

el luchador
12-10-2017, 06:48 PM
Good marketing, having prior exposure on television and being in an awesome hipster foodie clique that enjoys people that don't shave and drink craft beer?? :-P :bow:

There goes my theory. I thought it was because all the line up and wait places wrapped their brisket in foil/paper and braised it tender :becky:

el luchador
12-10-2017, 06:51 PM
They use charcoal out of convienance just like everyone else who uses charcoal, even bbq'ers.

Just to be clear what is your definition of "embers" again?

I have large cookers of almost every type. Stick burner, insulated cabinet, and uninsulated charcoal smokers.

In general, everyone loves the "Q" no matter which cooker I use. I have blind tested stick burner vs cabinet many times and stick burner has won almost every single time. We are at over a 50 test subjects (more than that but being conservative) and can only remember a handful (less than 10, for sure) preferring the charcoal cookers. I may do this semi-scientifically to get real numbers since I cook on both many times, same meat/prep/temp.

Does this mean I wanna get rid of my charcoal cookers? No. They have their place and that is a HUGE place. Convienance is awesome especially when sleep is concerned.




Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Wood embers are embers from wood
Lump embers are embers from lump

In your comparisons were you comparing wood vs briquettes or wood vs lump, and in either case was the charcoal roaring or oxygen deprived?

breez
12-10-2017, 08:38 PM
vinyl = stick burner
cassette = charcoal
CD = gas
blu-ray = pellets

:-P

8 track ?

Clay-b-que
12-10-2017, 08:47 PM
Sorry to say but I am trying to replicate the best I have ever had and that was franklins. My first job was at a BBQ joint in central Texas and I can't get away from that smell of wood fire. To each his own, but for me wood is the way to go. If franklins tasted that good on charcoal I would be trying to copy that. But it isn't.

Beentown
12-10-2017, 10:25 PM
Wood embers are embers from wood
Lump embers are embers from lump

In your comparisons were you comparing wood vs briquettes or wood vs lump, and in either case was the charcoal roaring or oxygen deprived?Me thinks no matter what variables I say were compared there would be a "reasoning" no matter the results. I think it's just you or the very few like you that prefer coals over true stick burning not figuring the other factors (cost, ease of use, etc....). Based on flavor most would prefer foods produced by a properly ran stick burner, in my and seems many heres experience.

We use lump in our charcoal burners. All hot and fast cooks (plenty of O2). Almost everyone still prefers wood, real wood, with moisture in it....12-15% is our happy place for most species.

The last cook was chuck roasts. Lump only, no wood added vs. cherry in a stick burner. Both cooking at 300 degrees.

The taste subjects all preferred the stock burner food. Said something was missing from the "lump only" sample.

Just as an FYI we are doing these tests because we are taking our show bigger, much bigger. So to make the best choices for us, including cooking equipment and materials we are testing recipes and said equipment/materials. We are taking the outcomes to produce a new menu and finalize all of our equipment choices.

The outcome is we are going to keep using both charcoal cookers and stick burners.

Set and forget (blower controlled) charcoal burners using wood chunks for sleeps sake. Stickburner for short cooks and times when we can take the time to tend the fire.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

OklaDustDevil
12-10-2017, 10:50 PM
I've always been a stick burner, and still am. But El Luchador has a point: many forms of grilling and smoking traditionally make use of glowing embers/charcoal for the cook rather than burning wood.

For example, a traditional North Carolina pit for cooking pork has two parallel chambers, one for burning wood down into embers, and one in which to shovel the embers under the pork. All the cooking is done by the embers, not by burning wood.

bcm1947
12-11-2017, 03:52 PM
Maybe some of you stick burners can help me out here. If lump charcoal is lump because it is wood that is not completely burned to ash, then it should still give you a smoked taste in your bbq similar to burning stick wood. If you are burning lump charcoal made from white oak it should still have some of what makes it white oak. I realize that it is not the same as the complete process of burning sticks of wood in your smoker, but it will flavor your bbq, somewhat like the wood it was made from. Not trying to really make a point with my posts on this thread, just trying to learn something here. Thanks

EdF
12-11-2017, 05:42 PM
Charcoal is for heat and wood is for flavor. Having said that, the quality of the raw food and the seasonings are far more important than the heat source and the biggest thing is getting the food off of the heat at the right internal temperature.

I'm not disagreeing with any of your points. It's interesting though that I just got a Uuni Pro pizza oven. What they recommend is put down some charcoal to get a steady heat basis. Then when you're getting ready for a Neapolitan pizza (900F), throw on some small splits to bring the fire up.

Beentown
12-11-2017, 06:01 PM
Maybe some of you stick burners can help me out here. If lump charcoal is lump because it is wood that is not completely burned to ash, then it should still give you a smoked taste in your bbq similar to burning stick wood. If you are burning lump charcoal made from white oak it should still have some of what makes it white oak. I realize that it is not the same as the complete process of burning sticks of wood in your smoker, but it will flavor your bbq, somewhat like the wood it was made from. Not trying to really make a point with my posts on this thread, just trying to learn something here. ThanksMoisture in the wood is the main difference but also when you burn a log of hardwood you have chemicals being burnt off that have already been burnt off in lump during the process to make it charcoal.

Alcohols
Benzene
Zinc
Methane
Potassium
Sulfur
Sodium
Magnesium
ETC...

Basically, wood burns and some chemicals dissolve and some chemicals attaches to other chemicals present in the meat (myoglobin and such). Some of those important hardwood chemicals are aromatic polymers. Love me some cherry and hickory aromatic polymers....;)


Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Smokeymagoo
12-11-2017, 06:15 PM
yes, ive been cooking with wood recently, trying to love it, but cant.

El,

I couldn't agree more. A few years ago purchased a Lang, so excited I could hardly stand it. The Honeymoon wore off real fast when I had to wake up every couple of hours to feed it wood.

Smokey

bcm1947
12-11-2017, 06:21 PM
Thank you for taking the time to share this information.

I smoked a pork butt on my 18.5 WSM Using B&B oak lump charcoal only. I wrapped it when the internal was @ 170 degrees. Took it to 200 degres, removed it from the smoker, and let it sit wrapped for a couple of hours before pulling. It had that great white oak taste, but overall wasn't much bark on it. I actually liked the flavor it had but one of my family members stated that it needed more smoke so I am now adding very small chunks of white oak & hickory to the lump embers. My family members seem to like it much better. Anyway, as I stated I'm only a backyard guy. Thanks

OklaDustDevil
12-11-2017, 07:21 PM
Talkin about the differences between sticks and charcoal, I often see a similar tension just amongst stick burners on this site (like me).

What I mean is that many of us stickburners focus on minimizing El Luchador's issues with sticks -- getting a bigger pit, making it out of thicker steel, including a bigger firebox, insulating the firebox, etc. All with the goal of getting more stable temps, having to add wood less frequently, being able to sleep longer, or at least fuss with the pit less frequently, at night. Sometimes also with the goal of using less wood.

But all these pit attributes work to create a more stable temp by creating a bigger thermal mass. In other words, the bigger, thicker steel maintains a more stable temp as against the sticks that are tossed in from time to time. So I keep wonderin, doesn't that mean the hot steel is serving as an oven and cookin the meat apart from the smoke of the sticks? In other words, as we increase the size, thickness, and efficiency of our smokers, aren't we cookin more with an oven and less with a smoker?

I don't know the answer, but I'd sure like to understand it. I'm guessing it's probably a matter of balance, as with most things in life. Using a cheap, thin steel smoker that consumes lots of wood probably isn't the answer; but using a super-insulated, super-efficient pit likely isn't the answer either. As Aaron Franklin says, you need good air and smoke flow thru the pit.

pjtexas1
12-11-2017, 07:29 PM
OklaDustDevil..
I have the cooker I think you are referring to. It drafts very hard. No stale air.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Q_Done_Right
12-11-2017, 09:19 PM
I’ve only cooked on my new stick burner a few times (ribs, wings and brisket); it’s a Pecos by the way. For $400 not perfect but pretty well made IMO. I’ve burned post oak splits in it from B&B each time. I also have three WSM’s (one of each size model). I personally don’t really care what others think as it’s all about what I like as well as my guest. The WSM’s are soooooo much easier to use between the two. Pecos requires a ton of effort but I don’t mind if I’m dedicated to the cause. Could never do an overnighter on a stick burner though. Personally, I thought the brisket I made on the Pecos was better than any I’ve ever made on my WSM’s. At the same time, my wife, sister and I all preferred the ribs I make on the WSM over those I made on the Pecos. Wings tasted exactly the same but I got much crisper skin on the WSM because of the vertical heat with water pan removed. I still need to cook a lot more on my stick burner and it can be a huge liability if I’m not mentally up for it. However, I have zero issue with any of the BBQ made on my charcoal smokers (w/ wood chunks); in fact, I’ve vended with just WSM’s and people raved about the food I made on them. Good thread.

el luchador
12-11-2017, 10:16 PM
Me thinks no matter what variables I say were compared there would be a "reasoning" no matter the results. I think it's just you or the very few like you that prefer coals over true stick burning not figuring the other factors (cost, ease of use, etc....). Based on flavor most would prefer foods produced by a properly ran stick burner, in my and seems many heres experience.

We use lump in our charcoal burners. All hot and fast cooks (plenty of O2). Almost everyone still prefers wood, real wood, with moisture in it....12-15% is our happy place for most species.

The last cook was chuck roasts. Lump only, no wood added vs. cherry in a stick burner. Both cooking at 300 degrees.

The taste subjects all preferred the stock burner food. Said something was missing from the "lump only" sample.

Just as an FYI we are doing these tests because we are taking our show bigger, much bigger. So to make the best choices for us, including cooking equipment and materials we are testing recipes and said equipment/materials. We are taking the outcomes to produce a new menu and finalize all of our equipment choices.

The outcome is we are going to keep using both charcoal cookers and stick burners.

Set and forget (blower controlled) charcoal burners using wood chunks for sleeps sake. Stickburner for short cooks and times when we can take the time to tend the fire.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

thanks for posting this. Obviously you have diligently tested and found wood to be better. I will not dispute that at all.

Maybe some of you stick burners can help me out here. If lump charcoal is lump because it is wood that is not completely burned to ash, then it should still give you a smoked taste in your bbq similar to burning stick wood. If you are burning lump charcoal made from white oak it should still have some of what makes it white oak. I realize that it is not the same as the complete process of burning sticks of wood in your smoker, but it will flavor your bbq, somewhat like the wood it was made from. Not trying to really make a point with my posts on this thread, just trying to learn something here. Thanks

Im wondering about this too. Ive done two cooks now with just the burning lump and it does give a smoke flavor that you can taste and smell, and it is very clean, but it is very light. Im thinking the wood definitely has heavier flavoring components. I would love to burn actual wood embers one day just to see how big the difference is.

El,

I couldn't agree more. A few years ago purchased a Lang, so excited I could hardly stand it. The Honeymoon wore off real fast when I had to wake up every couple of hours to feed it wood.

Smokey

:thumb:

thanks for posting this. The stick burner was definitely a lot of work. and not enjoyable to look forward to.

el luchador
12-11-2017, 10:28 PM
Thank you for taking the time to share this information.

I smoked a pork butt on my 18.5 WSM Using B&B oak lump charcoal only. I wrapped it when the internal was @ 170 degrees. Took it to 200 degres, removed it from the smoker, and let it sit wrapped for a couple of hours before pulling. It had that great white oak taste, but overall wasn't much bark on it. I actually liked the flavor it had but one of my family members stated that it needed more smoke so I am now adding very small chunks of white oak & hickory to the lump embers. My family members seem to like it much better. Anyway, as I stated I'm only a backyard guy. Thanks

so somethng happened today that kinda opened my eyes to a different way. at work bring bbq on mondays to taste. I brought some chicken smoked with lump only and 1 guy could taste and smell the smoke and the other two could not. chicken was only on the cooker 1.5 hours so it really didnt have a lot of time to absorb that much smoke.

the guy who could taste and smell the smoke does not bbq.
one guy who could not taste any smoke brought wings cooked with lump and mesquite wood (ack!!!) I only had one wing and it tasted great but I could taste that chemical mesquite flavor on my tongue for 2 hours. Obviously this guy likes his food drenched in smoke.
its definitely interesting how different people perceive smoke.

the eye opener for me was this - the guy I sold the smoker to works with me and he brought some ribs he cooked on the pecos and let me have a taste. well, damn were they delicous. very present smoke flavor but not overpowering so I asked him how he used the cooker. he used RO lump for heat and added about two sticks of pecan over a 5 hour period for flavor. It probably had the best balance of smoke that Ive had.

so now thats got me thinking lump for heat, wood for flavor (I think thats the first time thats been mentioned here ? :becky:)

I plan to experiment with different amounts of wood until I can dial in that perfect flavor.

Talkin about the differences between sticks and charcoal, I often see a similar tension just amongst stick burners on this site (like me).

What I mean is that many of us stickburners focus on minimizing El Luchador's issues with sticks -- getting a bigger pit, making it out of thicker steel, including a bigger firebox, insulating the firebox, etc. All with the goal of getting more stable temps, having to add wood less frequently, being able to sleep longer, or at least fuss with the pit less frequently, at night. Sometimes also with the goal of using less wood.

But all these pit attributes work to create a more stable temp by creating a bigger thermal mass. In other words, the bigger, thicker steel maintains a more stable temp as against the sticks that are tossed in from time to time. So I keep wonderin, doesn't that mean the hot steel is serving as an oven and cookin the meat apart from the smoke of the sticks? In other words, as we increase the size, thickness, and efficiency of our smokers, aren't we cookin more with an oven and less with a smoker?

I don't know the answer, but I'd sure like to understand it. I'm guessing it's probably a matter of balance, as with most things in life. Using a cheap, thin steel smoker that consumes lots of wood probably isn't the answer; but using a super-insulated, super-efficient pit likely isn't the answer either. As Aaron Franklin says, you need good air and smoke flow thru the pit.


thats really interesting. but my thought is the meat has to be exposed to all the smoke at some point so even though there is residual cooking from absorbed heat, its still getting all the wood smoke

JS-TX
12-11-2017, 10:32 PM
I've done about a half dozen experiments using lump and small splits in my Assassin 36 grill. So far only a few cooks have had any noticeable difference in smoke flavor than when I use lump/wood chunks in the Assassin or my WSM. The mini-splits I'm using are B&B brand and not kiln dried like other brands like Western Wood that I find at Academy. However the Western Wood chunks I'm using are kiln dried. Granted it's not a stick burner by design and perhaps each piece of wood is a little different. The burning wood embers does give off an awesome smell that's hard to get from a WSM on most days. Small hot fire is the method I'm sticking to. Also so far I've found bark makes little difference in the smokiness of it all. But my research continues...:)

bcm1947
12-12-2017, 10:19 AM
I like lump for my heat source, because I believe it will provide a cleaner burn than any briquette. The smoke from lump is not as intense as you would get from using roughly the same amount of briquettes, but you can add some small chunks of smoke wood to intensify the smoky taste in your bbq.

Our church recently had a fellowship meal, and one of the members picked up the BBQ from a local restaurant. This place is famous for good BBQ in our area and he has won several competitions over the years, if that means anything. I thought what a great opportunity to do a taste comparison between his and mine. Well, I knew after the first bite, he had a clean burn with no creosote or other foul tastes going on. I thought He had used all white oak, so I asked him, and he shared his secret concerning his choice of smoking wood in his offset. Which was as you might guess mostly white oak and hickory. I have tasted BBQ smoked with white oak and hickory a bunch over the years and that is what most people in our neck of the woods call good BBQ.

I wanted that taste from my WSM and pre-lighting my lump and adding small chunks of smoke wood have given me a very close taste. Every time I add lump I pre-light it and add small smoke chunks. I believe this whole process on my WSM is similar to burning sticks in an offset. It is amazing what we can accomplish with what we have if we just don't give up. Thanks

el luchador
12-12-2017, 12:38 PM
Iíve only cooked on my new stick burner a few times (ribs, wings and brisket); itís a Pecos by the way. For $400 not perfect but pretty well made IMO. Iíve burned post oak splits in it from B&B each time. I also have three WSMís (one of each size model). I personally donít really care what others think as itís all about what I like as well as my guest. The WSMís are soooooo much easier to use between the two. Pecos requires a ton of effort but I donít mind if Iím dedicated to the cause. Could never do an overnighter on a stick burner though. Personally, I thought the brisket I made on the Pecos was better than any Iíve ever made on my WSMís. At the same time, my wife, sister and I all preferred the ribs I make on the WSM over those I made on the Pecos. Wings tasted exactly the same but I got much crisper skin on the WSM because of the vertical heat with water pan removed. I still need to cook a lot more on my stick burner and it can be a huge liability if Iím not mentally up for it. However, I have zero issue with any of the BBQ made on my charcoal smokers (w/ wood chunks); in fact, Iíve vended with just WSMís and people raved about the food I made on them. Good thread.

I agree. for $500 I don't think the pecos can be beat in the offset category. burning wood just takes a lot of dedication .

CptKaos
12-12-2017, 01:24 PM
I agree. for $500 I don't think the pecos can be beat in the offset category .

Thats funny right there :)

Larry

ferdelious
12-12-2017, 01:28 PM
I recently purchased an Old Country Brazos as I was tired of trying to get great smoke flavor from my Green Egg. It's been a real learning curve but I think I've honed my technique enough to make good BBQ. The true key for using a stick burner is becoming a fire technician; knowing when and how much wood to use, moving sticks and embers around and proper air flow(even if that means blowing into the firebox yourself).

I've come to the realization that long cooks like brisket and pork butt are always going to be at dinner time because I'm not going to stay up all night. I also only have the meat in the smoker for a max of 5 hours. If I'm going to wrap the meat at that time there is no point of wasting money on fuel and time on tending the fire when it can just go in a set it and forget it oven.

You can't beat the smoke flavor from burning wood IMO so it's worth it to me to use a stick burner.

smoke ninja
12-12-2017, 01:30 PM
so somethng happened today that kinda opened my eyes to a different way. at work bring bbq on mondays to taste. I brought some chicken smoked with lump only and 1 guy could taste and smell the smoke and the other two could not. chicken was only on the cooker 1.5 hours so it really didnt have a lot of time to absorb that much smoke.

the guy who could taste and smell the smoke does not bbq.
one guy who could not taste any smoke brought wings cooked with lump and mesquite wood (ack!!!) I only had one wing and it tasted great but I could taste that chemical mesquite flavor on my tongue for 2 hours. Obviously this guy likes his food drenched in smoke.
its definitely interesting how different people perceive smoke.

the eye opener for me was this - the guy I sold the smoker to works with me and he brought some ribs he cooked on the pecos and let me have a taste. well, damn were they delicous. very present smoke flavor but not overpowering so I asked him how he used the cooker. he used RO lump for heat and added about two sticks of pecan over a 5 hour period for flavor. It probably had the best balance of smoke that Ive had.

so now thats got me thinking lump for heat, wood for flavor (I think thats the first time thats been mentioned here ? :becky:)

I plan to experiment with different amounts of wood until I can dial in that perfect flavor.




thats really interesting. but my thought is the meat has to be exposed to all the smoke at some point so even though there is residual cooking from absorbed heat, its still getting all the wood smoke



The issue with using lump or briquettes in a true stick burner is cost. You can go through 10-20 lbs plus for a cook. Running all or at least mostly wood will be more economical. Not saying it wont work just that its against the grain

pjtexas1
12-12-2017, 01:50 PM
so somethng happened today that kinda opened my eyes to a different way. at work bring bbq on mondays to taste. I brought some chicken smoked with lump only and 1 guy could taste and smell the smoke and the other two could not. chicken was only on the cooker 1.5 hours so it really didnt have a lot of time to absorb that much smoke.

the guy who could taste and smell the smoke does not bbq.
one guy who could not taste any smoke brought wings cooked with lump and mesquite wood (ack!!!) I only had one wing and it tasted great but I could taste that chemical mesquite flavor on my tongue for 2 hours. Obviously this guy likes his food drenched in smoke.
its definitely interesting how different people perceive smoke.

the eye opener for me was this - the guy I sold the smoker to works with me and he brought some ribs he cooked on the pecos and let me have a taste. well, damn were they delicous. very present smoke flavor but not overpowering so I asked him how he used the cooker. he used RO lump for heat and added about two sticks of pecan over a 5 hour period for flavor. It probably had the best balance of smoke that Ive had.

so now thats got me thinking lump for heat, wood for flavor (I think thats the first time thats been mentioned here ? :becky:)

I plan to experiment with different amounts of wood until I can dial in that perfect flavor.




thats really interesting. but my thought is the meat has to be exposed to all the smoke at some point so even though there is residual cooking from absorbed heat, its still getting all the wood smokeDidn't realize that you worked with BigSwole. :heh:

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

pjtexas1
12-12-2017, 01:53 PM
I recently purchased an Old Country Brazos as I was tired of trying to get great smoke flavor from my Green Egg. It's been a real learning curve but I think I've honed my technique enough to make good BBQ. The true key for using a stick burner is becoming a fire technician; knowing when and how much wood to use, moving sticks and embers around and proper air flow(even if that means blowing into the firebox yourself).

I've come to the realization that long cooks like brisket and pork butt are always going to be at dinner time because I'm not going to stay up all night. I also only have the meat in the smoker for a max of 5 hours. If I'm going to wrap the meat at that time there is no point of wasting money on fuel and time on tending the fire when it can just go in a set it and forget it oven.

You can't beat the smoke flavor from burning wood IMO so it's worth it to me to use a stick burner.

I tried the blowing into the fire box thing you recommended. I'm not sure if my beard is gonna grow back. Maybe I didn't do it right???

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

el luchador
12-12-2017, 02:16 PM
Thats funny right there :)

Larry

that went right over my head. Can you expound?

Didn't realize that you worked with BigSwole. :heh:

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

I don't know my colleagues nicknames - one of them may be bigswole- if you describe him maybe it'll come to me :-D

The issue with using lump or briquettes in a true stick burner is cost. You can go through 10-20 lbs plus for a cook. Running all or at least mostly wood will be more economical. Not saying it wont work just that its against the grain

I guess that would depend on the size of the smoker and whats being cooked but that was not my experience with the pecos. I honestly also expected that it would be much less efficient than my stick-burner uds ,but it only used about 25% more wood.

so I would assume it would only consume about 25% more charcoal than a charcoal burner as well, assuming a well made offset (like the pecos) and a similar size to a uds(also like a pecos)

CptKaos
12-12-2017, 02:20 PM
You said a $500 cooker can't be beat by any other offset. That's just funny

Larry

el luchador
12-12-2017, 02:24 PM
You said a $500 cooker can't be beat by any other offset. That's just funny

Larry

lol. no. I said I don't believe you can find a better offset for under $500 than the Pecos.

at least that's what I should have said :-D

a Shirley 30x96 dual axle's got to be at least a little better than the pecos, no ? :becky:

CptKaos
12-12-2017, 02:27 PM
I know, just couldn't pass on a hanging curveball :)
This has been a fun thread to read

Larry

smoke ninja
12-12-2017, 02:31 PM
that went right over my head. Can you expound?



I don't know my colleagues nicknames - one of them may be bigswole- if you describe him maybe it'll come to me :-D



I guess that would depend on the size of the smoker and whats being cooked but that was not my experience with the pecos. I honestly also expected that it would be much less efficient than my stick-burner uds ,but it only used about 25% more wood.

so I would assume it would only consume about 25% more charcoal than a charcoal burner as well, assuming a well made offset (like the pecos) and a similar size to a uds(also like a pecos)


Charcoal fueled cookers tend to not be offset but the heat flows direct. You cant compare different cookers fuel mileage. My 007 live fire drum is efficient compared to the stick burner offset. Charcoal cookers work off a controled burn, stick burners work off of draft. Unless you choke down the stick burner is gonna burn fast with charcoal and even then the offset nature will not be as effiecent.

Choking down will possibly give bitter or over smoked....but since you want more it would have been an idea, even if it were expensive to do

pjtexas1
12-12-2017, 03:03 PM
I don't know my colleagues nicknames - one of them may be bigswole- if you describe him maybe it'll come to me :-D

BigSwole is a member here that can never get enough smoke flavor and he talks about it all the time. i guess he hasn't been around recently or you would know the reference i was making.

smokeswirl
12-12-2017, 03:13 PM
Thats why I have two pellet grills

el luchador
12-12-2017, 03:31 PM
Charcoal fueled cookers tend to not be offset but the heat flows direct. You cant compare different cookers fuel mileage. My 007 live fire drum is efficient compared to the stick burner offset. Charcoal cookers work off a controled burn, stick burners work off of draft. Unless you choke down the stick burner is gonna burn fast with charcoal and even then the offset nature will not be as effiecent.

Choking down will possibly give bitter or over smoked....but since you want more it would have been an idea, even if it were expensive to do

now Im getting away from my knowledge base here, but doesn't a mass of carbon have the same energy whether burned slow or burned fast? ie wont it deliver the same btus?

BigSwole is a member here that can never get enough smoke flavor and he talks about it all the time. i guess he hasn't been around recently or you would know the reference i was making.

now that's funny cos my mesquite using friend is a big dude too). he may be bigswole. I'll ask :becky:

Thats why I have two pellet grills

for ease of use?

IXL
12-12-2017, 03:48 PM
BigSwole is a member here that can never get enough smoke flavor and he talks about it all the time. i guess he hasn't been around recently or you would know the reference i was making.

I truly believe that BigSwole chews creosote-flavored gum.

sudsandswine
12-12-2017, 05:41 PM
Lordy....15 pages

Beentown
12-12-2017, 05:46 PM
Lordy....15 pages🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

pjtexas1
12-12-2017, 05:49 PM
Lordy....15 pages... Of awesomeness!

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

2stroke250
12-12-2017, 09:27 PM
Gas Grill with a smoke canister filled with hardwood sawdust nice flavor

JokerBroker
12-13-2017, 06:24 AM
Lordy....15 pages

It started going off the tracks 7 pages ago. :deadhorse:

travismagee
12-13-2017, 07:50 AM
Honestly, thats what I love about the M1, M36, and M48.

If I'm in the mood for stick burning, I can smoke a whole brisket or anything for that matter with nothing but wood. If I don't feel like baby sitting as much, I will load it up with lump with a few small chunks of wood and go that method. I can throw wood in the firebox and lump up top and do some awesome reverse searing.

LordRiffenstein
12-13-2017, 08:15 AM
Lordy....15 pages

And a lot of food for thought for somebody like me who's on the stick-burner-edge. So thanks for all the comments on this thread!

el luchador
12-13-2017, 08:19 AM
And a lot of food for thought for somebody like me who's on the stick-burner-edge. So thanks for all the comments on this thread!

food for thought- you will notice that most of the stickburner guys also have a charcoal burner for their "easy" cooks :becky:

IXL
12-13-2017, 10:12 AM
food for thought- you will notice that most of the stickburner guys also have a charcoal burner for their "easy" cooks :becky:

Most definitely. There's the easy cooks, the fun cooks, and the funnerest cooks. At least one of these types uses charcoal.....:thumb:

smokeswirl
12-13-2017, 10:17 AM
el luchador. Yes for the ease of cooking, cleaning and firing up. I def use it much more because of the convenience

70monte
12-13-2017, 11:24 AM
Honestly, thats what I love about the M1, M36, and M48.

If I'm in the mood for stick burning, I can smoke a whole brisket or anything for that matter with nothing but wood. If I don't feel like baby sitting as much, I will load it up with lump with a few small chunks of wood and go that method. I can throw wood in the firebox and lump up top and do some awesome reverse searing.

This is one of the reasons I would like to eventually get this grill so I can try smoking with wood on a smaller scale but also smoke with lump if I want to and to also use this as a regular charcoal grill. Seems like the best of both worlds.

Wayne

cowgirl
12-13-2017, 11:32 AM
I saw that one too --but you were burning wood! - and I didnt see any best ever comments on that one so.... :-D

lol I need to clarify. That was the best tasting block pit pig they had tasted. Given the choice, friends prefer underground pigs. They just take more work..the block pit is a lot easier to mess with.
I still agree... nothing wrong with a good hot bed of coals. :thumb: :-D

JimmyR1Rider
12-13-2017, 11:59 AM
food for thought- you will notice that most of the stickburner guys also have a charcoal burner for their "easy" cooks :becky:

Food for thought. Many of us don't. I haven't touched my wsm since a week before I got my Shirley home. I don't give a damn. I'll fire that big girl up for a single pork loin.

Best cologne on the market. The women love it.

pjtexas1
12-13-2017, 12:12 PM
food for thought- you will notice that most of the stickburner guys also have a charcoal burner for their "easy" cooks :becky:Just because I have both doesn't imply anything. I still prefer my stuck burner.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

el luchador
12-13-2017, 12:26 PM
lol I need to clarify. That was the best tasting block pit pig they had tasted. Given the choice, friends prefer underground pigs. They just take more work..the block pit is a lot easier to mess with.
I still agree... nothing wrong with a good hot bed of coals. :thumb: :-D

aww man. there goes my theory that coals taste better than wood :-D :thumb:

Food for thought. Many of us don't. I haven't touched my wsm since a week before I got my Shirley home. I don't give a damn. I'll fire that big girl up for a single pork loin.

Best cologne on the market. The women love it.

ahh, but you haven't sold it , and that speaks volumes :thumb:
btw, how long have you had the Shirley. Ive heard the honeymoon period can last a while :boxing:
Just because I have both doesn't imply anything. I still prefer my stuck burner.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

I didn't say it wasn't preferred but its important for a newbie to know that a lot of "stickburners" also have a charcoal burner that's easier to use and still turns out great Q

12ring
12-13-2017, 10:05 PM
This is a great thread. I have kept up since page 1. I am so close to finishing up my offset build. Sand blasting and paint. Then I’ll see just how hard or easy it is to cook on one. I have been building it a little at a time for 5 months. I’m so ready to light a fire.

DBBQ
12-13-2017, 10:14 PM
I've had all the style smokers, and now have whittled mine down to just a WSM, Performer and Shirley. I loaned my WSM out, and prefer the Shirley overall. I just have a hard time finding affordable wood splits where I live. That is my only complaint.

PnkPanther
12-14-2017, 09:43 AM
I'm thinking my next grill will be englebrecht 1000

Santa Maria-Check
Charcoal-Check
Firebox-Check


https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0243/7857/products/1000_background_large.jpg?v=1479746539

Czarbecue
12-14-2017, 11:35 AM
So I did a 5 hour cook on the offset last night while watching the kids. It wasn't any more work than with my WSM, honestly. But I don't wrap my ribs and spritz them every 45 minutes to form that sweet glaze on top of the bark... like I do with the WSM. If the temp got down to 225, I threw another split on during the spritzing time. None of the kids were hurt nor did a fight break out when I stepped away for 5 minutes.

Maybe I will talk about it differently when I have to do this during the stall of a brisket.

Beentown
12-14-2017, 04:55 PM
So I did a 5 hour cook on the offset last night while watching the kids. It wasn't any more work than with my WSM, honestly. But I don't wrap my ribs and spritz them every 45 minutes to form that sweet glaze on top of the bark... like I do with the WSM. If the temp got down to 225, I threw another split on during the spritzing time. None of the kids were hurt nor did a fight break out when I stepped away for 5 minutes.

Maybe I will talk about it differently when I have to do this during the stall of a brisket.What's this "stall" you speak of? Lol

300-325 or I crutch it anymore.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

4ever3
12-14-2017, 06:09 PM
This thread is still goin?

It’s like the energizer bunny!

Czarbecue
12-14-2017, 06:20 PM
What's this "stall" you speak of? Lol

300-325 or I crutch it anymore.

I'm from Texas so I can't crutch it.

Beentown
12-14-2017, 06:31 PM
I'm from Texas so I can't crutch it.I like it both ways. I live in Ohio and Bludawg gave me a permission slip for HF.

BTW where has Bludawg been?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Czarbecue
12-14-2017, 06:36 PM
I like it both ways. I live in Ohio and Bludawg gave me a permission slip for HF.

BTW where has Bludawg been?

Seems Blu has not been here since 09/15. And you go both ways huh? :heh:

el luchador
12-14-2017, 06:37 PM
Last brisket I did stalled at 150 for over 8 hours. I finally said f it (forget it) and crutched it. It went from 150 to 209 in two hours

JokerBroker
12-14-2017, 07:03 PM
Last brisket I did stalled at 150 for over 8 hours. I finally said f it (forget it) and crutched it. It went from 150 to 209 in two hours

You should try cooking a brisket with a grate temp of 275ļ. You'll get through the stall in a fraction of the time.

WareZdaBeef
12-14-2017, 07:26 PM
You just joined the Thoey63 Club - now sell the stickburner and buy an LSG IVC.

How do i join this club? Do they get group discounts on KBB?

pjtexas1
12-14-2017, 07:40 PM
Last brisket I did stalled at 150 for over 8 hours. I finally said f it (forget it) and crutched it. It went from 150 to 209 in two hoursIt was the charcoal. Maybe you should try a stick burner. :pound:

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Czarbecue
12-14-2017, 07:46 PM
It was the charcoal. Maybe you should try a stick burner. :pound:

Burn. :mad2:

Beentown
12-14-2017, 08:15 PM
It was the charcoal. Maybe you should try a stick burner. :pound:

Sent from my SM-G955U using TapatalkEmbers, embers, not charcoal...

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Pappy Q
12-15-2017, 03:47 AM
Some folks can cook on a stick burner and some canít

Rusty Kettle
12-15-2017, 05:00 AM
17 pages.... LMAO.

I don't get it.

Cook on a stickburner if you like. Cook with whatever you want.
Cook with electric or gas or pellets or charcoal or wood. Who really cares? Different people have different situations and different needs. At the end of the day does it really matter? As long as you have a good time and have a cold beer and have thin blue smoke does it matter?

I have always wanted a stickburner. I would love to spend hours tending a fire. Imo it looks to be an art. I have dreamed of owning a reverse flow off set for years.

The thing is that I am a Yankee in the North and it gets cold. A pit in my price range is not going to hold heat well enough. Its going to be a struggle.

Sourcing wood around here would be a pain. Storing wood is the hard part imo. We rebuilt a termite damaged house. Wood would attract them back. Not something I am willing to do. I have got too much into our home to take a risk for food.

An insulated cabinet smoker fits my needs perfectly. Charcoal is easy to store. Wood chunks are easy to store. My cooker is very fuel efficient and has a small foot print but has a huge amount of cooking space. I don't have to baby sit it. I have two kids, a 4 year old and a 2 year old. It runs itself if I get up before the kids wake up I can cook when my wife is at work.

A stick burner in my situation would be idiotic. I can't dedicate the time and money and storage space for one. I don't have room for a wood pile.

I need a set it and forget it cooker. I don't want to have to use a guru. I want large cooking space but a small foot print. I want to be able to cook all day but dedicate myself to being involved in my kids' lives.

Right now my 270 Sumo fits the bill. Bonus is it cooks faster. I can get up at 2am instead of 11pm the day before. It significantly cuts down on cook time. I get a bit of extra sleep, cook great bbq, and I get to be involved in my kids lives.

A stickburner doesn't allow me the time I need. A cabinet does. A stickburner imo is for when I retire.

I don't have a clue if a stickburner puts out better food. My 270 puts out good food and fits my life.

If a stickburner puts out better food then I am going to need super strech pants when I retire.

Whole point is cook on what works for you. As long as you have fun then its all good.

pjtexas1
12-15-2017, 06:07 AM
Rusty... Let us know how you really feel. :heh:
Just kidding. I get what you are saying and that was probably the consensus on the first page or 2. I like that we have gone this far without the mods having to separate us.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

el luchador
12-15-2017, 09:11 AM
You should try cooking a brisket with a grate temp of 275ļ. You'll get through the stall in a fraction of the time.

I started at 225 for a few hours,with water in a pan( in the offset cooker). hit stall at 151į and wouldnt move. then I removed water pan and the internal temp actually dropped a couple of degrees to 149.
I bumped up temp to 275 and it still wouldnt budge. then I bumped to 300, still no go.

finally, I foiled it and cranked up the heat and it finally cooked.

Im starting to notice in my logs that it seems to take a certain temp differential to push through the stall and you will actually see internal temp drop if the cooker goes below a certain temp. even if its 80 degrees hotter than IT


It was the charcoal. Maybe you should try a stick burner. :pound:

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

I dont want to burst your bubble so... :boxing:

Embers, embers, not charcoal...

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

ah a convert :laugh:

Some folks can cook on a stick burner and some can’t

thank goodness for UDS and the likes else many would be out of this hobby. also thank goodness that not just stick burners win at bbq comps

JokerBroker
12-15-2017, 10:03 AM
By comparison to your 8 hour stall, I can cook a 15 pound prime brisket trimmed down to 11 pounds in 7 1/2 hours at 275į without wrapping. I don't know what grade of meat you were using but prime obviously cooks faster than a lower grade of meat and in addition to other attributes, a good offset has really good air flow.