Hot n' Fast Water Cooker vs. Non-water cooker

[jasonjax]

So I am in the middle of doing a hot n fast cook, and I am no where near the times as demonstrated in Myron Mixon's class.

Myron didn't seem to think it would make much of a difference, but I'm thinking a water-cooker cooking at 300+ is obviously producing a significant amount of steam.

Well, steam conducts heat a hell of a lot more efficiently than air, so I am wondering if that is part of the equation.

Anyone have experience with this and or thoughts?

[pjtexas1]

You running faster or slower?

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[jasonjax]

Slowwwwwwwerrrrr

[pjtexas1]

One of the reasons I don't like water. I find that I waste more fuel boiling water. Only way to know what works in your cooker is to try the next cook without water. Direct or indirect heat also makes a difference.

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[jasonjax]

Yeah ... and mine is indirect ... I'm still cooking way faster than usual when I do my 250-275, but nowhere near the time to doneness Myron was rocking out.

I also managed to catch some fat on fire screwing around.... experimenting is supposed to be fun except when you have a bunch of people coming over for dinner!

[Rusty Kettle]

If it's not the same cooker it won't cook the same. Try water. A lot of folks frown on using water. Thing is it changes it. I cook with water every time. It stabilizes temp. The meat isn't more moist. I prefer water cookers using water. You aren't going to replicate Myron by changing things. Do it his way or your going to have to change the process to get the results you want. Try water and see if you get closer.

[dadsr4]

Basic physics. It takes energy to convert liquid to gas, in this case heat energy. That heat energy is not going to the meat. Less heat energy leads to a longer cooking time.
Is the 300 deg temperature reading taken next to the meat? I'm guessing that the temp next to the meat is lower.

[jasonjax]

it should be. The thermocouple is next to the grate where the meat is. I’ll double check with my extra Maverick.

[JS-TX]

I'm thinking it should cook faster with steam, like you said it conducts heat better than air. A hot moist towel penetrates muscles better than just a hot dry towel is the way I think of it.

[OklaDustDevil]

Once I started using water I never looked back. Yes it can slow down the initial temp build in the smoker -- because you're having to heat the water -- but from that point on I believe it moves faster because the steam conducts heat more efficiently. I also believe it stabilizes the temp throughout the smoker and over time, and I find the wet heat does leave the meat moister than dry heat.

But I don't try to cook fast. Many cuts of meat I cook regularly -- like briskets and pork shpoulder -- require time at specific temp's to break down collagen and fats in the meat. It's not a matter of getting the meat done faster or slower, it's a matter of keeping the meat within a certain temp range for some time, due to the make-up of those specific cuts. Cooking fast is likely to blow through that temp range too quickly, so I don't do it.

[el luchador]

guys I looked up the conductivity of steam and it is less than the conductivity of air.

where are you guys seeing that steam conducts better than air?

[cfrazier77]

Think of a food steamer. It cooks veggies faster that in a dry oven at the same temp.

[jasonjax]

guys I looked up the conductivity of steam and it is less than the conductivity of air.

where are you guys seeing that steam conducts better than air?

Most of the stuff you see is in reference to industrial applications and not food cooking. Check out "latent heat of condensation"... steam definitely cooks faster than air.

There are even some specialized ovens that use steam to cook.

[Smoking Piney]

I cooked a brisket (just a flat) Myron style last weekend in my Assassin. I just put a full serving pan of water on the bottom rack and got it steaming.

Worked like a champ - 300 for 2 hours uncovered to get some color, 300 tightly covered in a serving pan with the brisket sitting on a rack to 205 IT and probe tenderness. I pulled the brisket at just under 5 hours to rest in the Cambro for a couple of hours. It rocked.

No more low and slow briskets for me anymore. :-D

[pjtexas1]

I cooked a brisket (just a flat) Myron style last weekend in my Assassin. I just put a full serving pan of water on the bottom rack and got it steaming.

Worked like a champ - 300 for 2 hours uncovered to get some color, 300 tightly covered in a serving pan with the brisket sitting on a rack to 205 IT and probe tenderness. I pulled the brisket at just under 5 hours to rest in the Cambro for a couple of hours. It rocked.

No more low and slow briskets for me anymore. :-DThat's a great feeling, right? Can't believe how many hours I spent up all night and all I had was a stick burner back then.

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[jasonjax]

I'm going to keep experimenting. If I really want to cook this way I may just need a different type of cooker.

[Notorious Q.U.E.]

I cooked a brisket (just a flat) Myron style last weekend in my Assassin. I just put a full serving pan of water on the bottom rack and got it steaming.

Worked like a champ - 300 for 2 hours uncovered to get some color, 300 tightly covered in a serving pan with the brisket sitting on a rack to 205 IT and probe tenderness. I pulled the brisket at just under 5 hours to rest in the Cambro for a couple of hours. It rocked.

No more low and slow briskets for me anymore. :-D

Nice! I’ve gotta go Myron style cause I’ve always worried that it would dry it out and make it tough. Evidently , that’s not the case here

[Springram]

I use a small water pan in my LSG vertical offset. I always put hot water in the pan before lighting the fire. If the water is not hot to begin with, the cooking chamber takes longer to heat heat up. Does using the water make a difference?....maybe not... but I have no reason to stop using it since the I am very satisfied with the results.

[pjtexas1]

Nice! I’ve gotta go Myron style cause I’ve always worried that it would dry it out and make it tough. Evidently , that’s not the case hereI've cooked brisket at 400 with no water and it was not dry. Done in 4 hours. Is Myron style with or without water?

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[Smoking Piney]

I'm going to keep experimenting. If I really want to cook this way I may just need a different type of cooker.

Maybe a dumb question here, Jason, but what are you using for water and steam? The full serving pan I used wasn't boiling, but it sure was producing some steam. At the class, Michael Mixon told me that I wouldn't be able to get the steam they're getting with their water cookers, but it's worth a try.

I get enough to match Myron's cook times fairly close.

[Smoking Piney]

I've cooked brisket at 400 with no water and it was not dry. Done in 4 hours. Is Myron style with or without water?

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Myron cooks with water cookers.

[pjtexas1]

Maybe a dumb question here, Jason, but what are you using for water and steam? The full serving pan I used wasn't boiling, but it sure was producing some steam. At the class, Michael Mixon told me that I wouldn't be able to get the steam they're getting on a gravity feed, but it's worth a try.

I get enough to match Myron's cook times fairly close.I'd put the pan on the heat diverter as that should be the hottest spot.

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[Smoking Piney]

I'd put the pan on the heat diverter as that should be the hottest spot.

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Mine sits on the bottom rack right above the baffle - the hottest part of the cooker.

[jasonjax]

Maybe a dumb question here, Jason, but what are you using for water and steam? The full serving pan I used wasn't boiling, but it sure was producing some steam. At the class, Michael Mixon told me that I wouldn't be able to get the steam they're getting with their water cookers, but it's worth a try.

I get enough to match Myron's cook times fairly close.

I've tried a couple of different things so far with varying sized disposable pans.

So far I've either had too much water or too little. I evaporated a smaller pan pretty fast (had put some fat trimmings in it that then caught fire after the water was gone... doh)

I'm going to keep testing. I think with my pellet cooker it is a little more difficult to get the right balance.

[Pstores]

If your cooking above 212..... Your steaming the food. Thus using a steam cooker and not a smoker. So I guss you have to decide. Steam the food or smoke it?

[Smoking Piney]

I've tried a couple of different things so far with varying sized disposable pans.

So far I've either had too much water or too little. I evaporated a smaller pan pretty fast (had put some fat trimmings in it that then caught fire after the water was gone... doh)

I'm going to keep testing. I think with my pellet cooker it is a little more difficult to get the right balance.

I think pellets are your problem. Myron mentioned this at the class, and you might have been the one to ask the question?

Use a the biggest pan you can fit in the cooker, You don't want to run out of water or have to refill it mid-cook. When the water is gone, the temp will spike out high. I use a full sized serving pan filled about 3/4 of the way up with water. After 5 hours in my cooker at 300, it just below half full.

PM me, class mate......we can figure this out. :-D

[Smoking Piney]

If your cooking above 212..... Your steaming the food. Thus using a steam cooker and not a smoker. So I guss you have to decide. Steam the food or smoke it?

Tell that to Myron Mixon. Jason and I just got back from his class, and his brisket was world class awesome.

[Pstores]

Tell that to Myron Mixon. Jason and I just back back from his class, and his brisket was world class awesome.

Water boils and turns to steam at 212.... Simple as that. But it seems he prefers steaming food. Which if you can make it turn out awesome. Then that's all good. That's what's fun about this hobby. What works for you works for you. Didn't say it was wrong. Just a different method.

[Smoking Piney]

Water boils and turns to steam at 212.... Simple as that. But it seems he prefers steaming food. Which if you can make it turn out awesome. Then that's all good. That's what's fun about this hobby. What works for you works for you.

The combination of steam and smoke can be great, as Jason and I just experienced at Myron's class. His briskets were hands down great - cooked at 300 and in steam. He uses stick burning water smokers. We're both here trying to duplicate what we learned in the class....on different cookers. :-D

[overeasy]

Why do we wrap or cover meats in a cook? To tenderize them of course. Its the juices that create steam in a closed environment that speeds up the cooking process.

[Smoking Piney]

Why do we wrap or cover meats in a cook? To tenderize them of course. Its the juices that create steam in a closed environment that speeds up the cooking process.

Totally agree.:thumb:

I've cooked beef short ribs for years this way - open to the the smoke a while for color and smoke, covered in a pan to let the steam and moisture finish them.

Myron's brisket method is just slightly different. The difference is using steam from the start of the cook with a water pan steaming away in your cooker, or using one of Myron's big, badass water cookers. I don't have the bucks or the space for one of Myron's cookers, but I think I've found a method to adapt this to my Assassin GF cooker. :-D

[overeasy]

I'd like to take that class! Heck Yeah!