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WareZdaBeef
06-20-2017, 12:41 PM
Let me start by saying, yes smoke ring does not make meat taste any better or worse (well maybe to an extent) but it does make it look better, and when you are happy with taste, why not go for looks right?

Anyway, one thing i have noticed when putting on a nice layered rub to build a nice bark, i am sacrificing a nice smoke ring. If i go all natural with a simple S&P I get a great dark red ring but barely any bark. My theory behind this is the rub is preventing the ring from penetrating into the meat the same way leaving a thick fat cap prevents it.

Now i have from time to time came across pics of briskets with that nice dark red ring and what i would consider a thick bark.

So am i wrong in my theory, or is there some "trickery" at play here?

This image is what really caught my eye:
http://newyork.seriouseats.com/images/2012/08/20120806-daniel-delaney-brisketlab-brisket-barbecue-6.jpg

JS-TX
06-20-2017, 01:20 PM
Does this layered rub you use have salt? I layer my rubs with brisket and my base rub is on the salty side, if not some type of seasoned salt. IMO brisket can take a lot of salt. Salt helps with smoke rings, as does putting the meat on the pit straight from the fridge/cooler. What are you cooking on? Kamados and other cookers that don't use much fuel don't contribute much to a smoke ring.

Cat797
06-20-2017, 01:25 PM
Sprinkle some Morton's tenderquick on first, then layer your rubs......you will have a nice smoke ring then! :tape: :doh:

...I'm kidding of course, but if you really want that smoke ring, that will guarantee it every time. I also agree with JS-TX, you will see more of it with saltier rubs and especially if you season over night or for a few hours prior to putting on the cooker.

WareZdaBeef
06-20-2017, 01:39 PM
Sprinkle some Morton's tenderquick on first, then layer your rubs......you will have a nice smoke ring then! :tape: :doh:

...I'm kidding of course, but if you really want that smoke ring, that will guarantee it every time. I also agree with JS-TX, you will see more of it with saltier rubs and especially if you season over night or for a few hours prior to putting on the cooker.

Ive tried the MTQ "trickery" a long time ago and i will point out that not only does it affect taste (not in a good way) it also does not produce a nice dark red ring (it always turned pink)

Does this layered rub you use have salt? I layer my rubs with brisket and my base rub is on the salty side, if not some type of seasoned salt. IMO brisket can take a lot of salt. Salt helps with smoke rings, as does putting the meat on the pit straight from the fridge/cooler. What are you cooking on? Kamados and other cookers that don't use much fuel don't contribute much to a smoke ring.

Usually my first layer is salt and coarse pepper. Its enough to borderline being too salty for most. I let that sort of rest for a few hours in the fridge, then i will add other layers of spices without salt. This allows me to build flavors without adding more salt. After a few hours and a few layers it goes in the fridge overnight.

As far as cooking, i use KBB with wood chunks. I start the meat right out of the fridge then into the smoker at a low temp like 200F for two hours then i raise the temp up to 225-250F until probe tender.

I have repeated this method dozens of times and its always the same results, nice bark=not so nice ring, nice ring= not so nice bark.

Nuco59
06-20-2017, 01:41 PM
My bark is never very thick or set (I wrap in foil usually). I get a good pink ring every time. Did not know there was a connection between bark and smoke ring. I'm interested in reading the answers.

WareZdaBeef
06-20-2017, 01:45 PM
My bark is never very thick or set (I wrap in foil usually). I get a good pink ring every time. Did not know there was a connection between bark and smoke ring. I'm interested in reading the answers.

Well, i am not sure there is a connection. I am just tired of theorizing if there is. I want answers damnit!

Btw, this was just a recent chuck i did that as an example of great ring, not so great bark.
https://s16.postimg.org/3m7nccq91/100_6979.jpg
https://s17.postimg.org/b2uzq9anj/100_6982.jpg

SirPorkaLot
06-20-2017, 01:49 PM
Here is a photo of a brisket I did over Memorial Day.
No rub. Just a S&P based seasoning. I consider this a decent bark and smoke ring.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170620/016070f6a3dadf404d5637411bb78788.jpg

JS-TX
06-20-2017, 01:57 PM
As far as cooking, i use KBB with wood chunks. I start the meat right out of the fridge then into the smoker at a low temp like 200F for two hours then i raise the temp up to 225-250F until probe tender.


That isn't very hot, I don't think you are getting enough combustion. Have you tried going 225* or hotter right from the start?

WareZdaBeef
06-20-2017, 01:57 PM
Here is a photo of a brisket I did over Memorial Day.
No rub. Just a S&P based seasoning. I consider this a decent bark and smoke ring.



Its hard to tell with it already slice and close up shot. What did it look like whole?

WareZdaBeef
06-20-2017, 02:00 PM
That isn't very hot, I don't think you are getting enough combustion. Have you tried going 225* or hotter right from the start?

I always got a better ring starting off low. When starting off hot it reaches 140F faster and from my own tests and many others tests from online searches, its seems to suggest the longer the meat stays below 140F w/smoke, the better the ring.

Remember, the ring isnt the issue, getting both ring and bark is. And i dont have an issue with getting either, its getting them both at the same time.

JWACKS
06-20-2017, 02:07 PM
I'm not aware of any direct connection between bark and smoke ring. The best explanation of a smoke ring that I've seen is by Meathead on Amazing Ribs.
http://amazingribs.com/tips_and_technique/mythbusting_the_smoke_ring.html
But, there may be some indirect connection. Smoker type, cooking temp, mopping/basting/spritzing, wrapping, etc. will affect the smoke ring and bark in different ways. Maybe there's something else you're doing different beyond the layered rub vs. S&P? If not, maybe we can all learn something here.

WareZdaBeef
06-20-2017, 02:12 PM
I'm not aware of any direct connection between bark and smoke ring. The best explanation of a smoke ring that I've seen is by Meathead on Amazing Ribs.
http://amazingribs.com/tips_and_technique/mythbusting_the_smoke_ring.html
But, there may be some indirect connection. Smoker type, cooking temp, mopping/basting/spritzing, wrapping, etc. will affect the smoke ring and bark in different ways. Maybe there's something else you're doing different beyond the layered rub vs. S&P? If not, maybe we can all learn something here.

In my opinion, most mopping is done at later stages in the cook where most likely the ring has already formed for the most part. I personally dont spritz,mop..ect..ect but now thinking about it, maybe mopping is contributing to a thicker bark when initially a thin rub is used?

SirPorkaLot
06-20-2017, 02:14 PM
Its hard to tell with it already slice and close up shot. What did it look like whole?

As it was being wrapped in BP

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170620/7c098bec22a5b80eda88a9a333243907.jpg

JS-TX
06-20-2017, 02:45 PM
I always got a better ring starting off low. When starting off hot it reaches 140F faster and from my own tests and many others tests from online searches, its seems to suggest the longer the meat stays below 140F w/smoke, the better the ring.

Remember, the ring isnt the issue, getting both ring and bark is. And i dont have an issue with getting either, its getting them both at the same time.

You may need some more seasoning, in this case you have enough salt, so maybe turbinado sugar. That is true with the smoke ring being more prevalent when starting slow but combustion is also important, cooking hotter helps with the malliard reaction and getting more bark. Any pics of the brisket before it goes on the pit?

WareZdaBeef
06-20-2017, 03:22 PM
You may need some more seasoning, in this case you have enough salt, so maybe turbinado sugar. That is true with the smoke ring being more prevalent when starting slow but combustion is also important, cooking hotter helps with the malliard reaction and getting more bark. Any pics of the brisket before it goes on the pit?

I don't. Atleast none of anything recent. I tend to forget to take pics at 6am in the morning when im rushing half asleep to get everything going. Plus, when im not happy with looks i tend not to care to take pics. I will take some pics before next weekends cook if this thread isn't buried by then.

btw, I have used tubinado in layered rubs, I suppose next time i will try a more coarse rub. I am thinking i may be adding too much finer spices that are creating a barrier that smoke can't get through. (well nitrate gases or w/e)

bam
06-20-2017, 04:12 PM
Remember, the ring isnt the issue, getting both ring and bark is. And i dont have an issue with getting either, its getting them both at the same time.

How is your taste and tenderness? Have you tried injecting?

THoey1963
06-20-2017, 04:23 PM
I almost never get a smoke ring, and if it is there, it's really light. I always have a good bark. I heavily salt my briskets with K. Salt, then heavily pepper it, then lightly sprinkle it with onion and garlic powders. Every once in a while, I'll add some paprika or chipotle powder just for color, but not sure it helps. I have tried rubbing and wrapping in saran wrap, back into the fridge, then on the pit. I have tried out of the fridge, rubbed and directly onto the pit. Not much difference besides the saran wrap seems to pull some of the rub off. Even heard to use celery powder. Sprinkled a little celery salt on my last briskets, no difference, but I was afraid to use too much.

I know my briskets tastes pretty good, it's tender and juicy, and I am happy with that, but would love to find a way to get at least some consistent ring...

JS-TX
06-20-2017, 04:26 PM
I don't. Atleast none of anything recent. I tend to forget to take pics at 6am in the morning when im rushing half asleep to get everything going. Plus, when im not happy with looks i tend not to care to take pics. I will take some pics before next weekends cook if this thread isn't buried by then.

btw, I have used tubinado in layered rubs, I suppose next time i will try a more coarse rub. I am thinking i may be adding too much finer spices that are creating a barrier that smoke can't get through. (well nitrate gases or w/e)

Yea.. it's crazy that we lose sleep over cooking some good Q :wink:

I often use up to 3 rubs in my layered approach. I can definitely say the first 2 rubs are your typical grind. My top rub is often course salt and pepper. As of this moment my plan is to cook 2 briskets this Saturday for my b-day party. I'll try to remember to take pics as well.. :mrgreen:

WareZdaBeef
06-20-2017, 04:38 PM
How is your taste and tenderness? Have you tried injecting?

Honestly, taste is great when i am sticking to simple S&P. Its when i get a little crazy with layers upon layers of spices trying to build a thick bark i feel i should have used less of this, more of that...As far as tenderness, I have soo many gadgets, its impossible to under/over cook. I am happy in that department.

Injecting, yeah ive tried it, that wouldn't help the bark or ring, but my cooks turn out great flavor and tenderwise without injecting. If i do inject its just homemade beef stock. Stuff is like jello until brought to room temp.

bam
06-20-2017, 04:49 PM
If you got taste and tenderness down I say you win. :thumb:

WareZdaBeef
06-20-2017, 04:53 PM
If you got taste and tenderness down I say you win. :thumb:

Yeah no doubt, im not complaining in that department, except when i go overboard sometimes with trying new rub recipes.

I just want that elusive bark/dark red ring combo.

pjtexas1
06-20-2017, 05:16 PM
i like this thread. i have never cooked a brisket without a smoke ring. it must be some kind of voodoo magic because i am not doing anything unheard of. insulated cabinet, vertical, stick burner all make a smoke ring. the insulated cabinet has the weakest ring. i have never cooked low and slow in anything but a stick burner so if low and slow does not produce a ring in my cookers i would not know. the only thing consistent in my charcoal cookers is i use all natural briqs and 90% of the time i use pecan chunks and a lot of them by most standards. looking forward to this discussion.

WareZdaBeef
06-20-2017, 05:25 PM
i like this thread. i have never cooked a brisket without a smoke ring. it must be some kind of voodoo magic because i am not doing anything unheard of. insulated cabinet, vertical, stick burner all make a smoke ring. the insulated cabinet has the weakest ring. i have never cooked low and slow in anything but a stick burner so if low and slow does not produce a ring in my cookers i would not know. the only thing consistent in my charcoal cookers is i use all natural briqs and 90% of the time i use pecan chunks and a lot of them by most standards. looking forward to this discussion.

Sarcasm detector is going off like crazy reading this post. I never said i had a problem creating a smoke ring or a thick bark, i said i get one or the other. And both turn out great low and slow.

JS-TX
06-20-2017, 05:27 PM
Forgot to ask.. are you wrapping in anything?

THoey1963
06-20-2017, 05:33 PM
WareZ, I don't think Paul was being sarcastic. I think he is truly interested in the discussion. We'll see...

JS, I am sure you were talking to WareZ, but since I listed what I do above, I'll say I used to wrap, but not any longer. Since I got the LSG cabinet, I let them run nekkid the whole way and only open the door to probe for tenderness. (no spritz)

WareZdaBeef
06-20-2017, 05:39 PM
Forgot to ask.. are you wrapping in anything?

Yeah i wrap in BP when i hit the stall (usually 180ish) By then whatever bark i have is set. I dug up a pic of a brisket cook which i felt was a nice bark but no smoke ring.
https://s30.postimg.org/595juzjtt/100_6678.jpg

pjtexas1
06-20-2017, 06:11 PM
Sarcasm detector is going off like crazy reading this post. I never said i had a problem creating a smoke ring or a thick bark, i said i get one or the other. And both turn out great low and slow.

Most of the time I am a sarcastic farker so that is a good assumption. I am interested because I love a great bark and smoke ring. Looking forward to hearing what everyone does to get both. This thread is interesting as I've never heard the question on if one has an impact on the other.

WareZdaBeef
06-20-2017, 06:24 PM
Most of the time I am a sarcastic farker so that is a good assumption. I am interested because I love a great bark and smoke ring. Looking forward to hearing what everyone does to get both. This thread is interesting as I've never heard the question on if one has an impact on the other.

My apologies then. I usually rub (pun intended) people the wrong way with my posts so im quick to assume the worst.

m-fine
06-20-2017, 06:28 PM
Fuel matters. Burning wood with a visible flame creates more NOx than charcoal and glowing coals will. So, to maximize the smoke ring, use a stick burner and try to keep the temp low for as long as you can before the meat hits the magic 130-140 where the ring formation is halted. If you don't have a stick burner, try more wood chunks. Keeping the surface moist in this phase is supposed to help capture the smoke.

Bark seems to do better with higher temps and less moisture. After the ring is no longer forming because you hit 140, up the heat and airflow. Perhaps start at 200 for a few hours and then bump to 275-300. You can add spice but try basting in oil only and not water if at all at this point. I don't think you need a thick layer of spices to get what I consider a good bark, but if that is what you want and you think it is blocking smoke penetration after further testing, try adding it mid cook after staring the cook with a simpler salt based rub.

WareZdaBeef
06-20-2017, 06:36 PM
Fuel matters. Burning wood with a visible flame creates more NOx than charcoal and glowing coals will. So, to maximize the smoke ring, use a stick burner and try to keep the temp low for as long as you can before the meat hits the magic 130-140 where the ring formation is halted. If you don't have a stick burner, try more wood chunks. Keeping the surface moist in this phase is supposed to help capture the smoke.

Bark seems to do better with higher temps and less moisture. After the ring is no longer forming because you hit 140, up the heat and airflow. Perhaps start at 200 for a few hours and then bump to 275-300. You can add spice but try basting in oil only and not water if at all at this point. I don't think you need a thick layer of spices to get what I consider a good bark, but if that is what you want and you think it is blocking smoke penetration after further testing, try adding it mid cook after staring the cook with a simpler salt based rub.

This sounds interesting. Do you have any experience adding a more rub mid cook? i have considered something like this at the 130F mark, basicly just pulling it and doing a shake and bake type method with a mild flavor sugar based rub , then putting it back on the pit.

m-fine
06-20-2017, 06:47 PM
This sounds interesting. Do you have any experience adding a more rub mid cook? i have considered something like this at the 130F mark, basicly just pulling it and doing a shake and bake type method with a mild flavor sugar based rub , then putting it back on the pit.

Not dry, but I have done various seasoned mops and oils, some nearly a paste. I now prefer to keep the rub simple on brisket, so for my tastes I would not add any sugar mid cook, but adding sugar and upping the heat will blacken things up.

jsperk
06-20-2017, 07:11 PM
For whatever reason, if I use Meat Church holy cow on my brisket, I am sure to get a really nice smoke ring.

WareZdaBeef
06-20-2017, 07:13 PM
Not dry, but I have done various seasoned mops and oils, some nearly a paste. I now prefer to keep the rub simple on brisket, so for my tastes I would not add any sugar mid cook, but adding sugar and upping the heat will blacken things up.

Well i was thinking S&P only for the initial few hours to reach 130F (that should develop the smoke ring, then add a coarse sugar like turbinado. I am just trying to think of idea's to build a bark that doesn't impact too much flavor. Maybe some coarse activated charcoal. lol

WareZdaBeef
06-20-2017, 07:15 PM
For whatever reason, if I use Meat Church holy cow on my brisket, I am sure to get a really nice smoke ring.

Is nitrate/nitrite an ingredient in this holy cow you speak of? Or red food coloring powder?

pjtexas1
06-20-2017, 07:17 PM
Fuel matters. Burning wood with a visible flame creates more NOx than charcoal and glowing coals will. So, to maximize the smoke ring, use a stick burner and try to keep the temp low for as long as you can before the meat hits the magic 130-140 where the ring formation is halted. If you don't have a stick burner, try more wood chunks. Keeping the surface moist in this phase is supposed to help capture the smoke.

Ok. Interesting comment. I've heard to leave them on top of the charcoal so they will burn cleaner and I do this. Never heard that it would help the smoke ring. I lay my charcoal down and put my chunks on top. I also don't use big or even medium size chunks. I use 4"-6" chunks that are longer than they are thick. They look like a miniature split vs a square block. Do my chunks actually burn instead of smoldering? I've never thought to look at therm mid cook.

IXL
06-20-2017, 07:31 PM
Yeah i wrap in BP when i hit the stall (usually 180ish) By then whatever bark i have is set. I dug up a pic of a brisket cook which i felt was a nice bark but no smoke ring.
https://s30.postimg.org/595juzjtt/100_6678.jpg

That looks delicious. How come there's no smoke ring?.......

WareZdaBeef
06-20-2017, 07:38 PM
That looks delicious. How come there's no smoke ring?.......

Thats what im trying to figure out! LOL

Thanks btw

mattmountz94
06-20-2017, 07:53 PM
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a221/mattmountz94/1AAEAAB0-C07D-44E9-9910-DEF3D95BD9B5_zpsvrlzqdz6.png (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/mattmountz94/media/1AAEAAB0-C07D-44E9-9910-DEF3D95BD9B5_zpsvrlzqdz6.png.html)
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a221/mattmountz94/C17B6DB5-059E-4AC1-970C-06C3322B3FCC_zpsjmwqcozc.png (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/mattmountz94/media/C17B6DB5-059E-4AC1-970C-06C3322B3FCC_zpsjmwqcozc.png.html)
Both of these were cooked on a yoder 640. I have always heard pellet give awesome smoke rings. Let me say though I absolutely hate smoke rings. I think it looks so fake. I would much rather not have one. I have used the simple salt and pepper and also a variety of rubs. All give the same result for me.

WareZdaBeef
06-20-2017, 08:03 PM
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a221/mattmountz94/1AAEAAB0-C07D-44E9-9910-DEF3D95BD9B5_zpsvrlzqdz6.png (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/mattmountz94/media/1AAEAAB0-C07D-44E9-9910-DEF3D95BD9B5_zpsvrlzqdz6.png.html)
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a221/mattmountz94/C17B6DB5-059E-4AC1-970C-06C3322B3FCC_zpsjmwqcozc.png (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/mattmountz94/media/C17B6DB5-059E-4AC1-970C-06C3322B3FCC_zpsjmwqcozc.png.html)
Both of these were cooked on a yoder 640. I have always heard pellet give awesome smoke rings. Let me say though I absolutely hate smoke rings. I think it looks so fake. I would much rather not have one. I have used the simple salt and pepper and also a variety of rubs. All give the same result for me.

That is one heck of a ring. I agree, it does look fake. Why is it so pink? I strive for that 1/8" dark red ring. Its subtle, but pronounced.

mattmountz94
06-20-2017, 08:12 PM
The light pink one was salt and pepper. The darker one was holy cow

WareZdaBeef
06-20-2017, 08:18 PM
The light pink one was salt and pepper. The darker one was holy cow

They would have to disclose nitrites if it was an ingredient right? I mean in the past ive dabbled with using MTQ and cure#1 in quick brines just for fun, but that looks a lot like my results i got when testing.

jsperk
06-20-2017, 09:02 PM
Is nitrate/nitrite an ingredient in this holy cow you speak of? Or red food coloring powder?

Not sure what's all in it. Ingredients: Salt, spice, dehydrated garlic & spice extractives. Gluten free. No MSG.

More peppery to me than anything.

It looks more red.

WareZdaBeef
06-20-2017, 09:07 PM
Not sure what's all in it. Ingredients: Salt, spice, dehydrated garlic & spice extractives. Gluten free. No MSG.

More peppery to me than anything.

It looks more red.

I don't know of any "spice" that would bleed red into the meat except red beet. I suppose a company could get away with dried red beet labeled as "spice"

JWACKS
06-20-2017, 09:12 PM
This sounds interesting. Do you have any experience adding a more rub mid cook?
I normally rub my briskets just before going on the smoker, but there was this one time during sleep deprivation when about an hour into the smoke I looked in on my beef and realized it was totally naked. I promptly added a rub and in the end couldn't tell a difference.

jsperk
06-20-2017, 09:14 PM
Pic of the rub. It's very good rub.

WareZdaBeef
06-20-2017, 09:19 PM
Pic of the rub. It's very good rub.

Thats some nice coarse rub. Alot more coarse then what i have been layering my meats.

jermoQ
06-20-2017, 10:05 PM
Meathead does a fabulois job explaining that. Past that, I went to a comp with someone who normally makes choppwd brisket which he injects with mortons. At this comp, he decided to slice brisket and one judge accused him on a comment card of trying to inject smoke into the meat because the slices had large red spots where the mixture was injected. So the "smoke ring" ended up being "smoke spots". The chemical reaction in thw meat I believe is what makes your smoke ring. Bark, is not related but other people know about that

SirPorkaLot
06-20-2017, 10:13 PM
Meathead does a fabulois job explaining that. Past that, I went to a comp with someone who normally makes choppwd brisket which he injects with mortons. At this comp, he decided to slice brisket and one judge accused him on a comment card of trying to inject smoke into the meat because the slices had large red spots where the mixture was injected. So the "smoke ring" ended up being "smoke spots". The chemical reaction in thw meat I believe is what makes your smoke ring. Bark, is not related but other people know about that



I don't put much stock into anything Meathead says unfortunately, but I can speak from experience

Yes..you can create an artificial smoke ring using a variety of different ingredients in a rub.

However, a smoke ring can be created from only smoke, temperature and time.

I don't use any commercial rubs and the seasonings I do use are mainly sea salt.
I use a stick burner and I get a smoke ring......every single time. Sometimes it is brighter than others, but I get one every time I use my stick-burner and most times on my WSM.

This was a Pork butt smoked on a 14.5" WSM.
Seasoned with only salt.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170621/a6b964980a48d0062b9c7e31459d43c2.jpg

WareZdaBeef
06-20-2017, 10:21 PM
Meathead does a fabulois job explaining that. Past that, I went to a comp with someone who normally makes choppwd brisket which he injects with mortons. At this comp, he decided to slice brisket and one judge accused him on a comment card of trying to inject smoke into the meat because the slices had large red spots where the mixture was injected. So the "smoke ring" ended up being "smoke spots". The chemical reaction in thw meat I believe is what makes your smoke ring. Bark, is not related but other people know about that

I said this early in my thread, but i will repeat it. You can tell the difference by the color. Pink= fake or just a crappy natural ring. Dark red = the real deal. My whole point of this thread, and the very first picture i posted is that crazy dark red ring and thick bark. I can create both, but not together.

SirPorkaLot
06-20-2017, 10:26 PM
I said this early in my thread, but i will repeat it. You can tell the difference by the color. Pink= fake or just a crappy natural ring. Dark red = the real deal. My whole point of this thread, and the very first picture i posted is that crazy dark red ring and thick bark. I can create both, but not together.



I keep showing you photos of meat with great bark and smoke ring....

Here is another.

If can do this all night https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170621/ddcac03f7492761fe5feaea6f43f86fe.jpg

SirPorkaLot
06-20-2017, 10:32 PM
Some more pork butt (all photos from one butt)

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170621/cd850e2641f1fdf1f543d85f4ebba245.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170621/5c89e7866bfffccc01727cc7d0b97cef.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170621/b2c4027f39f1c74256656466782651ea.jpg

Nothing but salt was used to season it

SirPorkaLot
06-20-2017, 10:35 PM
Last one (I promise, no pinkie swears)

Back to brisket
(Little blurry, I think the lens may have had Beef fat on them. ;)
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170621/f6efe15c51342efe2e09be33f07cce44.jpg

Notorious Q.U.E.
06-20-2017, 10:38 PM
Aaron Franklin has some great videos and he talks about aerodynamics of his briskets (no kidding). I think there's truth there as I find best results with high air flow and clean heat. I feel like franklins aerodynamics go a long way in forming both smoke ring and bark

pjtexas1
06-20-2017, 11:01 PM
One from an insulated cabinet and one from my shirley. I'm not saying airflow isn't important but my cabinet has very little compared to the shirley. Are these too pink? Is the bark thick enough? Just some of my examples. Trying to get an idea of what you want to see in your briskets.

145093

145094

Clay-b-que
06-20-2017, 11:34 PM
It seems to me the one constant where people are getting good smoke rings and good bark is stick burners or at least using more wood than anything. If it's any consolation, when you judge you are not supposed to take smoke ring into consideration. Taste and tenderness is what it is all about!!! Mmmmmm brisket!

WareZdaBeef
06-20-2017, 11:43 PM
I keep showing you photos of meat with great bark and smoke ring....

Here is another.

If can do this all night https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170621/ddcac03f7492761fe5feaea6f43f86fe.jpg

This one looks like "Money" damn good bark, nice "dark red" ring . I swear i am not trying to down play any ones Q it all looks great. I am just after that dark red ring with a thick pitch black bark. I thought the pic in the first post nailed it. Its not mine of course. But thats what my ideal "look" is.

jermoQ
06-21-2017, 08:18 AM
I said this early in my thread, but i will repeat it. You can tell the difference by the color. Pink= fake or just a crappy natural ring. Dark red = the real deal. My whole point of this thread, and the very first picture i posted is that crazy dark red ring and thick bark. I can create both, but not together.

For what it's worth, if the taste and texture is good on your BBQ, you shouldnt worry about it. I like bbq, I like bark. If it has a smoke ring fine, if not fine.

Hopefully, actually, I know someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that the bark on meat comes from time at a high enough temp, maybe with smoke too? Reading Franklins bbq book, he talks about bark with only SP, and he uses wood cookers only at around 275 so it could be determined that wood is the key. However, I have gotten bark on my pellet pooper and my UDS. In my experience, it seems like the slower you cook, the better the smoke ring and I have used SPOG and a SSPPOG (salt, sugar, pepper, paprika, onion, garlic) mixture. I guess, you have to find the happy medium in your cooking to get both?

Norm
06-21-2017, 08:44 AM
It's always been my guess that the amount of smoke with a simple salt and pepper rub gives a better smoke ring.

smoke ninja
06-21-2017, 08:47 AM
Oh! Were spamming the thread with brisket pics....can i play

http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l520/smokeninjabbq/brisket/20170604_143004_zpsjkow3etv.jpg (http://s1121.photobucket.com/user/smokeninjabbq/media/brisket/20170604_143004_zpsjkow3etv.jpg.html)

http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l520/smokeninjabbq/brisket/2014-08-10%2018.05.18_zpslk3yzldk.jpg (http://s1121.photobucket.com/user/smokeninjabbq/media/brisket/2014-08-10%2018.05.18_zpslk3yzldk.jpg.html)

http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l520/smokeninjabbq/brisket/20150802_102735_zpsukcz60gp.jpg (http://s1121.photobucket.com/user/smokeninjabbq/media/brisket/20150802_102735_zpsukcz60gp.jpg.html)

WareZdaBeef
06-21-2017, 09:25 AM
Oh! Were spamming the thread with brisket pics....can i play



Sure why not. Thats some nice bark/ring combo.

WareZdaBeef
06-21-2017, 09:29 AM
So from what ive gathered so far is #1, stick burner seems to produce a better bark/ring. I will need to research this further.#2 Higher temp should produce a better bark. I will have to try starting off low, then crank it up higher then 250F next time.

JS-TX
06-21-2017, 10:28 AM
Cooked on a WSM at about 275*, wrapped in BP.

jonfromjersey
06-21-2017, 11:24 AM
I'm the least organized cook I know and I've started my cooks while the meat was still cold from the fridge, at room temperature, slathered with mustard under a thick amount of rub, no mustard with a thin amount of rub and I've always had a nice smoke ring. I have no idea why but I do. Agreed though that the ring DOES make the food look better. Best of luck.

Notorious Q.U.E.
06-21-2017, 11:52 AM
So from what ive gathered so far is #1, stick burner seems to produce a better bark/ring. I will need to research this further.#2 Higher temp should produce a better bark. I will have to try starting off low, then crank it up higher then 250F next time.

Meadow Creek is right there in your neck of the woods. Those TS-120s are mighty fine looking smokers and they offer an insulated firebox!!

Qkooker
06-21-2017, 01:02 PM
Great thread with good information. I don't cook competition, but do about 20 briskets a year. I have a gas vertical cabinet, Yoder stick burner, and a 30 inch pipe beast where I shovel coals under the meat (old School pit). Best smoke ring is from the stick burner cooking slow with temps ranging 250 to 275, wrapped with BP. The best tasting meat is from the fire underneath (my beast) the average cooking temp is 300, has small pinkish ring, great bark, no wrap. The vertical cooker at 275, has least visible ring good bark, no water pan, and not wrapped. I use the same home made rub: salt, black pepper, red pepper, paprika, garlic powder,and brown sugar. The picture is one I cooked on the vertical smoker, which has a decent bark. I will take pictures the next time for sliced.