Calling all meat slicer experts. Need help troubleshooting old berkel sharpening assembly.

[CakeM1x]

So I got that old berkel gc from like 1960s all cleaned up enough for now and working (I'll probably give it a paint job in the spring). Two things I can't figure out is the sharpening assembly and is making me a sand panda.

These are pics before I cleaned up the body

Front
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5744/23890057625_e75a51edc3_b.jpg

Back
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5835/23522143469_2766804b13_b.jpg

Model?
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5660/23863969096_22549c5f24_b.jpg


1. The lever to press is really firm no matter how much I kroil/lube it. Its to the point its functional but I need to put some real pressure on it to go. Not something I'm too pumped about while a 12" blade is spinning 4 inches from my hand. Any ideas at all how to make that level less resisting? It seems like the resistance is in the sprint area or beneath it where the 2 metal plates combine. kroil then lube hasn't made it much better. Was thinking of applying heat but don't know if that would damage anything or even help.

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/589/23889944085_22e930e211_b.jpg

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/669/23863829216_4e8756c9c0_b.jpg
2. The sharpening assembly unit is at the wrong angle or the blade was custom sharped to a new angle. When I sharpen with the stones it is sharpening the blade about 3mm from the actual edge as shown in pic below if I lower it enough to hit both the grinding and truing stone.

pic

If I only lower the grinding stone to just when it hits the blade about 3mm then the truing stone like like an inch from hitting the blade. And it doesn't look like it works well at all unless both the grinding and truing stones are hitting the blade. Does anyone have any ideas on a remedy for these two things?

sharpening unit raised
http://farm1.staticflickr.com/614/23522032539_6422923c71_b.jpg

lowered to grind
http://farm1.staticflickr.com/779/23781607662_4d9d3cd405_b.jpg

Notice the freshly ground blade about 3mm from the actual edge. Only way to actually grind the edge is to have it in the utmost position when the truing stone doesn't hit.
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5672/23781604932_d3a072b485_b.jpg

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Can't find anything on this slicer since it is soooo old.

[Yellowhair42]

All the old school slicers I have used you grind the beveled side first,then lightly use the truing stone to get rid of burrs. I've never seen one where they both grind at the same time. Does this help?

[CakeM1x]

I would have to remove the grinding stone to do that though which doesn't seem like a very good design at all?

[AldenMiller]

I have that same slicer, I will have to take a look when I get home.

-Alden

[CakeM1x]

Thanks Alden, much appreciated. First time I've seen someone with my middle name.

[Pyle's BBQ]

All the old school slicers I have used you grind the beveled side first,then lightly use the truing stone to get rid of burrs. I've never seen one where they both grind at the same time. Does this help?

I have an old Globe that both stones hit the blade at the same time. His is a much older model than mine, so the design changed between these models.


Did you try moving the assembly while the stones were removed? That might show where the problem is. Hopefully Alden has an answer.

[airedale]

I know nothing about slicers but I have been working on little machines all my life. Everything from semiautomatic pistols to racing engines. So I will go out on an extremely risky limb here and make some guesses from the photos.

The way the lever is arranged, my guess is that there is a spring that holds the shaft in a "neutral" position and that the direction the lever is pushed determines which stone touches the cutter blade. Think of it as a teeter-totter with a centering spring.

The knurled knob looks like the height adjuster for the stones. When you lock the adjuster in place at a good height, the blade should be roughly centered in the gap between the stones.

If my guessing is right so far, then you are setting the stones too low if they both contact the blade at the same time.

The lever should move smoothly and easily, not requiring much force before a stone touches, then force on the lever is the grinding pressure. Penetrating oil is a tool for the extreme optimist. I am not an optimist. I would suggest taking everything apart, cleaning in brake cleaning solvent, lacquer thinner, or another favorite solvent of yours, then reassembling with food-grade grease lubricating everything that looks like it wants some.

I don't see anything that would be damaged by heat. If you have screws that seem to be frozen you could try putting the assembly in an oven, maybe 250deg, then wear a pair of gloves while trying to unscrew the offender. Sometimes an optimist is rewarded by submerging a hot assembly into a dish of penetrating oil. Not too hot, though, or the penetrating oil will boil (or catch fire!).

I have no idea about the stone angles, but since there would be little reason for someone to alter them, I'll guess that they are correct and things will work out when the rest of the assembly is set properly.

Have I marched off the edge of the cliff yet?

[AldenMiller]

The grinding stone on the right is different on mine. Both of mine are fine grit and have the bevel on the edge. They drop down on the blade and make full contact.

Good middle name you have!

-Alden

http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx259/aldenmiller/Mobile%20Uploads/20151221_192315_zpsxw2ldoly.jpg

[Garyclaw]

Wow. You guys are way ahead of me. I can't even get the grinding assembly out of the storage position! I'll be watching this the ad. Thanks

[airedale]

... Both of mine are fine grit and have the bevel on the edge. ... Yeah. As I was driving around tonight I was thinking about those stones. There's no reason that one side of the blade should be ground with a coarser stone than the other. I think the OP is in the market for one or a pair of stones.

[ebijack]

That coarse stone is for flatting/reshaping/dressing the finer grit stone. I'd have to believe like mentioned above, your missing the proper second stone for sharping both sides of the blade. That grit would not be used to sharpen the blade. You can compare the wheel stone to this for a visual.
http://www.pjtool.com/dressingstick.aspx?gclid=CKbB3aKT78kCFYUYHwodPXkPn A

[Murray in N.Z.]

check out my old post here for foters of how my blade sharpener sit on the wheel

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=182455

Maybe yours is similar. There is also some listings for parts a bit further down the page.

Muzza.

[captndan]

IMHO sharpeners on slicers do more harm than good. Take the blade off and take it or send it to a company that specializes in that sort of thing. Once the edge is sharpened correctly it will last may years.

[CakeM1x]

The stones that came with the unit are the same ones I bought from an online dealer that has a ton of hobart/berkel/globe pieces. I emailed them and they suggested to get the stones that I bought. They match up perfectly to what was in the slicer to begin with so I'd assume these are the right ones.

The grinding stone is to form the burr and the truing stone to remove. All pics that look like my old slicer have a grinding and a truing stone when I do the googles.

@airedale
I want to take it completely apart but I can't figure out how to take apart that assembly around the shaft. There are no screws for it. Maybe soaking the entire thing in a solvent might finally penetrate and break up some of the gunk?
@pyles
The assembly only moves up and down. And yes I tried multiple heights. The only time the grinding stone hits the actual edges is when it is at the highest point but then the truing stone doesn't connect.

I emailed a cutlery sharpening service but they haven't gotten back to me. Looks like a phone call is in order.

[airedale]

@airedale
I want to take it completely apart but I can't figure out how to take apart that assembly around the shaft. There are no screws for it. Maybe soaking the entire thing in a solvent might finally penetrate and break up some of the gunk?It's hard for me to say without holding the thing in my hands. To the extent I have had any success with magic fluids it is with "PB B'blaster, which is sold many places including Home Depot. You could immerse the assembly in that stuff and heat it as much as you dare, then let it sit even for a couple of days. Don't set yourself on fire, though. It's flammable.

I'm not sure what you mean by "assembly around the shaft" but one other trick if you have, for example, a bolt screwed into something is this: Heat the assembly and then quickly cool (shrink) the bolt with some ice or dry ice and try to turn it. Or do the heat/cool some other way. For steel/steel this is marginal but if the threaded thing is steel and the something is aluminum this can be effective because the temperature coefficient of expansion (TCE) for aluminum is much larger than the TCE of steel. This means the aluminum something expands more than the thing threaded into it, loosening the fit.

[DiamondMarco]

You might try a google search for the operating manual. Type something like this with your model number - "berkel bc 808 pdf". That's how I got mine working correctly.

[AldenMiller]

If anyone knows how to remove the blade from one of these beasts I'd like to know how. I tried loosening the center disc that has two holes in it because that appeared to be the way to go and I couldn't get it to budge.

-Alden

[CakeM1x]

You might try a google search for the operating manual. Type something like this with your model number - "berkel bc 808 pdf". That's how I got mine working correctly.

I've tried and haven't had any success finding a manual for this thing.

If anyone knows how to remove the blade from one of these beasts I'd like to know how. I tried loosening the center disc that has two holes in it because that appeared to be the way to go and I couldn't get it to budge.

-Alden

I bought this and removed my blade with ease.
Tooluxe® 02006L Universal Adjustable Pin Pliers | Changing or Replacing Backing Pads on Angle Grinders - Spanner Wrench - Amazon.com@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41D1h2ha1HL.@@AMEPARAM@@41D1h2ha1HL

[AldenMiller]

Thanks! I added it to my shopping cart for the next time I purchase something...

How did you hold the blade still and which direction is the threading? Is it lefty loosie, righty tighty?

-Alden

[Budman1]

Thanks Alden, much appreciated. First time I've seen someone with my middle name.

Heck, I grew up and went to school in Alden.

[dadsr4]

If you have a model number, try here for a manual.
https://my.vulcanfeg.com/resourcecenter/vulcanwolfberkel/Pages/SearchByModelNumber.aspx

[MikeB52]

Reviving an older thread but others may have an older Berkel slicer with built in sharpener still so I offer the following from my own experience.
That lever is on a strong spring by design and is meant to move the two stones against the blade from either side of the blade, simultaneously as you press the lever. Sharpening the main blade face with the coarse stone, and removing the wire edge on the back side with the finer beveled wheel.
When pressing the lever both stones are supposed to move towards each other and when released they move away from each other opening that gap between them.
What happens over time is the two stone slides seize up from being predominantly held against their wide open detents.
The fix is to unload the lever by moving it inwards and shimming the gap between the arm and one of the two stone wheel slides. This allows you to free up the other one so it moves in and out again. Then repeat for the other one. Once both stones slide in and out as the lever is engaged you can then reset the sharpener in the slicer and clean up your blade.
I have the 1500 Berkel from the early 50s and it still works like a champ!
Hope the above makes sense and if I can figure out how to add pictures I will.
Cheers men. Happy cooking.
Mike.

[seattlepitboss]

Don't lubricate anything with vegetable oil!

[ModelMaker]

You must have a deli, grocery meat case, processer near you per chance there may be a similar machine you could see how things work.
Ed

[SmokinAussie]

I bought an old 12 inch slicer with a sharpener. It was in such bad shape I discarded it out of hand.

I use a circular axe stone instead

https://www.amazon.com.au/Sharpening-Diameter-Norton-Campers-Tomahawks/dp/B077RRJG96

For the amount of use it get's this is a reasonable solution to consider.

Cheers!

[Demosthenes9]

It's an old thread, but discussion is new so I'll chime in.

can't speak to the much older Berkel HC model, but later models like the 808, 818, 909, and 919 kind of had a 2 stage lever. You drop the stones down on each side of the blade and then pull/press the lever part way to engage the rear stone. Do that a few times. Then, push/pull the lever the rest of the way and it engages the front stone as well to deburr.


If you have a commercial slicer, you absolutely need to have a working sharpener, or some other way to sharpen the blade somewhat frequently. Removing the blade and taking it to get it sharpened once a year just doesn't really work. Even if you have it razor sharp with a freshly sharpened blade, it will start to dull on the very first slice. If I'm slicing up 40lbs of meat, I'll usually touch my Berkel up 2 or 3 times during the slicing session. Mostly it's just to deburr the edge that has rolled over.


Also, FWIW, most slicers are single bevel with the bevel being on the back side of the blade. That uses the angled coarse stone to grind the blade. Fine stone goes flat against the front side of the blade to deburr.