PDA

View Full Version : Need help with salt cure


amv81
11-18-2015, 02:09 PM
Hey Brethren I need your help. I'm doing a wet cure/brine for a ham I'm going to smoke for Thanksgiving. The only pink salt I found is Cure Salt 813. It says use 4 ounces for 100 pounds of meat. That doesn't seem like much. Has anyone every used this/ should I follow their guidelines? Sorry in advance for sideways pic.

Thanks
Adam

MisterChrister
11-18-2015, 03:14 PM
Edited to defer to IAmMadman

Free Mr. Tony
11-18-2015, 03:26 PM
If it's the exact same as Prague powder, the calculations seem similar but not exactly the same.

1 Oz is 6 tsp
4 Oz is 24 tsp

The typical cure ratio is 1 tsp per five pounds
So 100 lbs divided by 5 equals 20 five pound sections

104timberwolf
11-18-2015, 03:33 PM
My pastrami recipe called for 2 teaspoons of pink salt per gallon of water.

IamMadMan
11-18-2015, 04:51 PM
A Wet Cure (brine) is calculated differently than a Dry Cure, as the final result of a wet cure is calculated in PPM (Parts Per Million).

WET CURES.....

The current USDA Minimum is 125 ppm and the Maximum is 200ppm Nitrite for Brined/Pickled Meats.

It is also recommended that the meat be pumped WITH 10% brine of their initial weight of the meat to insure even curing and prevent "Bone Sour" So for a 10 pound ham (16 oz) 16 ounces of the brine solution should be injected into the meat around the bone as well as deep in the center.

85 Grams of Cure#1 per gallon of water yields and 140ppm nitrite and 113.4 yields 188 ppm nitrite, both are safe. Again I go close to the middle to allow for any loss due to variances/tolerances.

So my basic wet cure is as follows for each gallon.
1 Gallon of Water
9 Grams Cure #1
400 Grams Kosher Salt
150 Grams Sugar

Once the above items are mixed, you can add your spices/flavoring to the brine. Dissolve these ingredients in hot water to make sure they are fully dissolved, then let cool to below 40 degrees before adding the meat.

Again salt and sugar will vary slightly according to the type of meat being cured.
Salt can vary between 200 grams and 600 grams according your taste.
Sugar can vary from 50 grams to 350 grams depending upon your taste.

The main concept one must grasp is that formulations for dry and wet cures drastically differ from each other.

I also highly advocate the use of a good electronic kitchen scale used in the metric mode (grams) for a more accurate measure. Accuracy and Consistency are the two most important item to consider when curing meat and meat products. Accuracy insures a safe consistent product, while consistency insures a quality product each and every time. Why you ask?.... A grain of Kosher salt is larger than that of a grain of table salt. As a result, a teaspoon of Kosher salt does not weigh as much as a teaspoon of table salt. But simply put a gram of kosher salt is equivalent to a gram of table salt because they both weigh the same. Even Kosher salts differ in crystal sizes. Accuracy of the amount of cure to be not only critical to the cure, but to your personal health as well.

amv81
11-18-2015, 07:55 PM
Thanks for all the info, you guys are a huge help. Is 1 day per 2 pounds about the norm for brining a ham?

IamMadMan
11-19-2015, 05:55 AM
IN THE INTREST OF HEALTH AND SAFETY DO NOT USE THIS FORMULATION HERE LISTED ABOVE...... THERE IS A TYPO

Thanks for noticing this Chris.... He Pointed out it should be 9 not 90...

I copied from my file on the computer with remote access I can verify the weights after I get home tonight and check my hard copies.

Here is a recipe you can follow in the interim http://lpoli.50webs.com/index_files/Smoked%20Ham.pdf

I also suggest understanding wet cures by reading this resource... IT WILL ANSWER MANY OF YOUR QUESTIONS.

http://www.meatsandsausages.com/hams-other-meats/hams
(http://www.meatsandsausages.com/hams-other-meats/hams)
This site is where I started my quest on wet cures.....


.

MisterChrister
11-19-2015, 10:23 AM
IN THE INTREST OF HEALTH AND SAFETY DO NOT USE THIS FORMULATION HERE LISTED ABOVE...... THERE IS A TYPO

Thanks for noticing this Chris.... He Pointed out it should be 9 not 90...

I copied from my file on the computer with remote access I can verify the weights after I get home tonight and check my hard copies.

Here is a recipe you can follow in the interim http://lpoli.50webs.com/index_files/Smoked%20Ham.pdf

I also suggest understanding wet cures by reading this resource... IT WILL ANSWER MANY OF YOUR QUESTIONS.

http://www.meatsandsausages.com/hams-other-meats/hams
(http://www.meatsandsausages.com/hams-other-meats/hams)
This site is where I started my quest on wet cures.....


.

I'm still thinking your original formulation may be right, it seems to line up close with Len Poli and the other link provided. I just asked because I wondered and had seen different curing brine recipes ALL over the place from 9 grams/gallon to 90 grams/gallon. I believe the brine in "Charcuterie" lies somewhere between. I'm further confused as to why meat weight doesn't factor into brine formulations. I still defer to your knowledge and experience, but just wish that one of the brethren was a USDA FSIS chemist! Our resident foodie chemist will hopefully step up and edumicate me! You know who you are buddy, chime in any time now :-P

fantomlord
11-19-2015, 11:36 AM
A Wet Cure (brine) is calculated differently than a Dry Cure, as the final result of a wet cure is calculated in PPM (Parts Per Million).

WET CURES.....

The current USDA Minimum is 125 ppm and the Maximum is 200ppm Nitrite for Brined/Pickled Meats.

It is also recommended that the meat be pumped WITH 10% brine of their initial weight of the meat to insure even curing and prevent "Bone Sour" So for a 10 pound ham (16 oz) 16 ounces of the brine solution should be injected into the meat around the bone as well as deep in the center.

85 Grams of Cure#1 per gallon of water yields and 140ppm nitrite and 113.4 yields 188 ppm nitrite, both are safe. Again I go close to the middle to allow for any loss due to variances/tolerances.

So my basic wet cure is as follows for each gallon.
1 Gallon of Water
9 Grams Cure #1
400 Grams Kosher Salt
150 Grams Sugar

Once the above items are mixed, you can add your spices/flavoring to the brine. Dissolve these ingredients in hot water to make sure they are fully dissolved, then let cool to below 40 degrees before adding the meat.

Again salt and sugar will vary slightly according to the type of meat being cured.
Salt can vary between 200 grams and 600 grams according your taste.
Sugar can vary from 50 grams to 350 grams depending upon your taste.

The main concept one must grasp is that formulations for dry and wet cures drastically differ from each other.

I also highly advocate the use of a good electronic kitchen scale used in the metric mode (grams) for a more accurate measure. Accuracy and Consistency are the two most important item to consider when curing meat and meat products. Accuracy insures a safe consistent product, while consistency insures a quality product each and every time. Why you ask?.... A grain of Kosher salt is larger than that of a grain of table salt. As a result, a teaspoon of Kosher salt does not weigh as much as a teaspoon of table salt. But simply put a gram of kosher salt is equivalent to a gram of table salt because they both weigh the same. Even Kosher salts differ in crystal sizes. Accuracy of the amount of cure to be not only critical to the cure, but to your personal health as well.

IN THE INTREST OF HEALTH AND SAFETY DO NOT USE THIS FORMULATION HERE LISTED ABOVE...... THERE IS A TYPO

Thanks for noticing this Chris.... He Pointed out it should be 9 not 90...

I copied from my file on the computer with remote access I can verify the weights after I get home tonight and check my hard copies.

Here is a recipe you can follow in the interim http://lpoli.50webs.com/index_files/Smoked%20Ham.pdf

I also suggest understanding wet cures by reading this resource... IT WILL ANSWER MANY OF YOUR QUESTIONS.

http://www.meatsandsausages.com/hams-other-meats/hams
(http://www.meatsandsausages.com/hams-other-meats/hams)
This site is where I started my quest on wet cures.....


.

I'm still thinking your original formulation may be right, it seems to line up close with Len Poli and the other link provided. I just asked because I wondered and had seen different curing brine recipes ALL over the place from 9 grams/gallon to 90 grams/gallon. I believe the brine in "Charcuterie" lies somewhere between. I'm further confused as to why meat weight doesn't factor into brine formulations. I still defer to your knowledge and experience, but just wish that one of the brethren was a USDA FSIS chemist! Our resident foodie chemist will hopefully step up and edumicate me! You know who you are buddy, chime in any time now :-P

so, that's me, although food chemistry is not my area of expertise by any stretch of the imagination.

I've been trying to wrap my head around the math...as it was a bit confusing for me.

so...what I've found, is that the range of nitrite concentration in curing brines given by IamMadMan (125 - 200 ppm) is accurate. I kept having some difficulty working the math out, however, which was a bit frustrating for me :tsk:

as a scientist, I speak metric, so to me, ppm is mg/kg. So, looking at the 9 g per gallon (3.78 kg), I kept coming up with way too high of a conc.

then, I realized what I was missing...cure #1 is only 6.25 % sodium nitrite :icon_blush:

Also, keep in mind that those limits are for nitrite, not sodium nitrite. The nitrite accounts for 2/3 of the weight of sodium nitrite. So, if I do the math:

9 g * 6.25 % * 2/3 = 0.375 g, or 375 mg nitrite
375 mg / 3.78 kg = 99 ppm nitrite

Plus, if you account for the weight of the salt and sugar, you're really looking at 375 mg / 4.33 kg = 87 ppm nitrite

So, it seems like to get to the 148 ppm IamMadMan was targeting, you would actually need 15 g per gallon:

15 g * 6.25% * 2/3 = 0.625 g, or 625 mg nitrite
625 mg / 4.33 kg = 144 ppm nitrite

Is there something else I'm missing? Wouldn't surprise me...I'm only 3 cups of coffee into the day :heh:

oh, and I PM'd Phrasty since he's something of a ham expert...hopefully he'll chime in

MisterChrister
11-19-2015, 11:54 AM
I'm glad you have time for this at your day job! Hopefully the new gig won't stifle our access to you during the day!

fantomlord
11-19-2015, 12:32 PM
A Wet Cure (brine) is calculated differently than a Dry Cure, as the final result of a wet cure is calculated in PPM (Parts Per Million).

WET CURES.....

The current USDA Minimum is 125 ppm and the Maximum is 200ppm Nitrite for Brined/Pickled Meats.

It is also recommended that the meat be pumped WITH 10% brine of their initial weight of the meat to insure even curing and prevent "Bone Sour" So for a 10 pound ham (16 oz) 16 ounces of the brine solution should be injected into the meat around the bone as well as deep in the center.

85 Grams of Cure#1 per gallon of water yields and 140ppm nitrite and 113.4 yields 188 ppm nitrite, both are safe. Again I go close to the middle to allow for any loss due to variances/tolerances.

So my basic wet cure is as follows for each gallon.
1 Gallon of Water
9 Grams Cure #1
400 Grams Kosher Salt
150 Grams Sugar

Once the above items are mixed, you can add your spices/flavoring to the brine. Dissolve these ingredients in hot water to make sure they are fully dissolved, then let cool to below 40 degrees before adding the meat.

Again salt and sugar will vary slightly according to the type of meat being cured.
Salt can vary between 200 grams and 600 grams according your taste.
Sugar can vary from 50 grams to 350 grams depending upon your taste.

The main concept one must grasp is that formulations for dry and wet cures drastically differ from each other.

I also highly advocate the use of a good electronic kitchen scale used in the metric mode (grams) for a more accurate measure. Accuracy and Consistency are the two most important item to consider when curing meat and meat products. Accuracy insures a safe consistent product, while consistency insures a quality product each and every time. Why you ask?.... A grain of Kosher salt is larger than that of a grain of table salt. As a result, a teaspoon of Kosher salt does not weigh as much as a teaspoon of table salt. But simply put a gram of kosher salt is equivalent to a gram of table salt because they both weigh the same. Even Kosher salts differ in crystal sizes. Accuracy of the amount of cure to be not only critical to the cure, but to your personal health as well.

IN THE INTREST OF HEALTH AND SAFETY DO NOT USE THIS FORMULATION HERE LISTED ABOVE...... THERE IS A TYPO

Thanks for noticing this Chris.... He Pointed out it should be 9 not 90...

I copied from my file on the computer with remote access I can verify the weights after I get home tonight and check my hard copies.

Here is a recipe you can follow in the interim http://lpoli.50webs.com/index_files/Smoked%20Ham.pdf

I also suggest understanding wet cures by reading this resource... IT WILL ANSWER MANY OF YOUR QUESTIONS.

http://www.meatsandsausages.com/hams-other-meats/hams
(http://www.meatsandsausages.com/hams-other-meats/hams)
This site is where I started my quest on wet cures.....


.

I'm still thinking your original formulation may be right, it seems to line up close with Len Poli and the other link provided. I just asked because I wondered and had seen different curing brine recipes ALL over the place from 9 grams/gallon to 90 grams/gallon. I believe the brine in "Charcuterie" lies somewhere between. I'm further confused as to why meat weight doesn't factor into brine formulations. I still defer to your knowledge and experience, but just wish that one of the brethren was a USDA FSIS chemist! Our resident foodie chemist will hopefully step up and edumicate me! You know who you are buddy, chime in any time now :-P

I'm glad you have time for this at your day job! Hopefully the new gig won't stifle our access to you during the day!

ha! I find the time because I care...and because about the only thing I have left to do here is transition my projects to other people.

And I suspect the new gig will limit my daytime brethren availability :rolleyes:

IamMadMan
11-19-2015, 05:18 PM
fantomlord, MisterChrister

Thanks for checking the calculations, I would rather be safe than sorry.

I think one of the issues here for confusion is that one recipe calls for teaspoons, another uses Tablespoons, and yet another calls for ounces as their method of measure. Trying to figure things out calculating backwards into grams would create even more confusion. The metric scale is more accurate and will always give you a more precise measure of ingredients.

Thanks for your time and efforts to work out these calculations for us. I've adjusted my 9 grams to reflect 15 grams as the proper amount.

Thanks again.

so, that's me, although food chemistry is not my area of expertise by any stretch of the imagination.

I've been trying to wrap my head around the math...as it was a bit confusing for me.

so...what I've found, is that the range of nitrite concentration in curing brines given by IamMadMan (125 - 200 ppm) is accurate. I kept having some difficulty working the math out, however, which was a bit frustrating for me :tsk:

as a scientist, I speak metric, so to me, ppm is mg/kg. So, looking at the 9 g per gallon (3.78 kg), I kept coming up with way too high of a conc.

then, I realized what I was missing...cure #1 is only 6.25 % sodium nitrite :icon_blush:

Also, keep in mind that those limits are for nitrite, not sodium nitrite. The nitrite accounts for 2/3 of the weight of sodium nitrite. So, if I do the math:

9 g * 6.25 % * 2/3 = 0.375 g, or 375 mg nitrite
375 mg / 3.78 kg = 99 ppm nitrite

Plus, if you account for the weight of the salt and sugar, you're really looking at 375 mg / 4.33 kg = 87 ppm nitrite

So, it seems like to get to the 148 ppm IamMadMan was targeting, you would actually need 15 g per gallon:

15 g * 6.25% * 2/3 = 0.625 g, or 625 mg nitrite
625 mg / 4.33 kg = 144 ppm nitrite

Is there something else I'm missing? Wouldn't surprise me...I'm only 3 cups of coffee into the day :heh:

oh, and I PM'd Phrasty since he's something of a ham expert...hopefully he'll chime in

I'm still thinking your original formulation may be right, it seems to line up close with Len Poli and the other link provided. I just asked because I wondered and had seen different curing brine recipes ALL over the place from 9 grams/gallon to 90 grams/gallon. I believe the brine in "Charcuterie" lies somewhere between. I'm further confused as to why meat weight doesn't factor into brine formulations. I still defer to your knowledge and experience, but just wish that one of the brethren was a USDA FSIS chemist! Our resident foodie chemist will hopefully step up and edumicate me! You know who you are buddy, chime in any time now :-P

amv81
11-19-2015, 06:00 PM
Once again I appreciate everybody's help with this, you guys are some talented people but I think I am getting confused now. After the calculations, your amount of Cure #1 for your basic brine recipe is 15 grams per 1 gallon if I understand correctly. But then in the link for another brine/ recipe http://lpoli.50webs.com/index_files/Smoked%20Ham.pdf it shows 55 grams of Cure #1 for 2 L. of water for an 8 pound ham. My ham is 18 pounds, I just want to make sure I don't mess this up and get people sick.

IamMadMan
11-19-2015, 09:17 PM
Seems like wet cures are much more complex than we thought.

When referring to the ppm brine content at this webpage, http://www.meatsandsausages.com/hams-other-meats/hams
(http://www.meatsandsausages.com/hams-other-meats/hams)
I also find this tidbit near the end of the page which add more confusion...

Calculation Formula (using % pick-up)

ppm = lb. nitrite x % pick-up x 1,000,000/lb. pickle

Without weighing the meat, the only way to determine % pick-up of cured meat is by an educated guess based on previous experience. It is generally accepted that immersion cured hams (60 SAL) pick-up about 4% weight. If we add 4.2 ounces (120 g) of Cure #1 to 1 gallon of brine, the solution will contain 1973 ppm of sodium nitrite. At first sight it may seem that there is an excessive amount of nitrite in water. The answer is that only a small percentage will be absorbed by meat during the immersion process. At 4% pick-up the ham will absorb 79 ppm which will be just enough for any meaningful curing. At 10% pump (needle pumping) the same ham will contain 197 ppm of sodium nitrite which is in compliance with the government standard of 200 ppm. Pumping more than 10% or increasing the amount of cure in the solution will of course cross the limit.

Based on those findings we can come up with the general formula for 60 SAL brine:
water 1 gal. (8.33lbs.) 3.80 kg
salt 1.32 lbs. 600 g
Cure #1 4.2 oz. 120 g
sugar 1.5 oz. 42 g

If you need stronger or weaker brine change the amount of salt according to the salt tables. The amount of Cure #1 should remain the same. To eliminate the danger of uneven coloring, manufacturers add sodium erythorbate into the solution. This speeds up the nitrite reaction and more nitric oxide will be released. Nitric oxide will in turn react with the meat’s myoglobin and the pink color will be created. By now you should be fully aware that there isn’t one universal brine and many solutions will do the job. Meat placed in a weaker solution will do as good a job as meat placed in a stronger solution as long as a proper curing time is allowed.


.

Any input?

Once again I appreciate everybody's help with this, you guys are some talented people but I think I am getting confused now. After the calculations, your amount of Cure #1 for your basic brine recipe is 15 grams per 1 gallon if I understand correctly. But then in the link for another brine/ recipe http://lpoli.50webs.com/index_files/Smoked%20Ham.pdf it shows 55 grams of Cure #1 for 2 L. of water for an 8 pound ham. My ham is 18 pounds, I just want to make sure I don't mess this up and get people sick.

That would calculate as follows....

To calculate Len's recipe we have 55 grams per 2 liters of water.

Thus 27.5 grams per liter

1 Gallon equals 3.78541 liters

so if we multiply 3.78541 by 27.5 we would require 104.098 grams per gallon which would be just above my original 90 grams...? Yet still under the 120 grams listed in the 60 degree salinity listed above????

I am still looking for my notebook with the calculation worksheets, it's been years since I converted them to text files as needed.

However in reference to amv81, I personally would follow Len Paoli's recipe until we find our notes and formulas to double check our calculations (he has proven his recipes for many years and very unlikely he has made an error as they are in line with all his other brine recipes).

Put your ham in a container that it closely fits in, and see if 2 liters of water will cover it completely. If it does, follow his recipe to the to the letter as far as the water, salt, sugar and cure. Then you can add in your flavoring ingredients/spices if desired.

Hopefully we can find the proper method of calculating the mixture.


.

amv81
11-19-2015, 10:25 PM
Thanks for all of your hard work IamMadMan,fantomlord,MisterChrister. I will go with the
water 1 gal. (8.33lbs.) 3.80 kg
salt 1.32 lbs. 600 g
Cure #1 4.2 oz. 120 g
sugar 1.5 oz. 42 g

and follow the recipe with the addition of some pickling spice. I plan to smoke it for thanksgiving, so I will have a follow up with how everything turned out with some pron. Thanks again,
Adam

IamMadMan
11-19-2015, 10:33 PM
Thanks for all of your hard work IamMadMan,fantomlord,MisterChrister. I will go with the
water 1 gal. (8.33lbs.) 3.80 kg
salt 1.32 lbs. 600 g
Cure #1 4.2 oz. 120 g
sugar 1.5 oz. 42 g

and follow the recipe with the addition of some pickling spice. I plan to smoke it for thanksgiving, so I will have a follow up with how everything turned out with some pron. Thanks again,
Adam


Don't forget to inject along the bone and to allow an ample curing time.

MisterChrister
11-19-2015, 10:43 PM
Thanks for all of your hard work IamMadMan,fantomlord,MisterChrister............Tha nks again,
Adam

Don't thank me, I'm just a dork who questions everything! The other two are the guys with all the brains! You're in good hands with those guys!

amv81
11-19-2015, 10:48 PM
Been reading up on the bone sour too so I am going to inject and put in brine tomorrow and let it go until Wed, wash/rinse it then let the smoke take over.:thumb:

IamMadMan
11-20-2015, 06:07 AM
Been reading up on the bone sour too so I am going to inject and put in brine tomorrow and let it go until Wed, wash/rinse it then let the smoke take over.:thumb:

I just noticed your weight and curing times....... Been so confused with the calculations in the strength of the cure in the brine I didn't see this sooner.

I want your product to be successfully cured so it can be enjoyed and not a failure that will turn you away from future attempts.

You inject 10% of the meat weight in brine along the bone, this prevents bone sour and helps to have an even cure. Your ham is 18 pounds so you would inject 1.8 pounds of the brine. into the meat.

However I do not think injecting and brining today (Friday) and taking out on Wednesday is ample curing time. You have to remember the nitrite takes weeks for these large items to reach equilibrium even when pumping 10%. Nitrite will turn to Nitric oxide over time when it reacts with the meat’s myoglobin during the process of equilibrium and the pink color we associate with ham is created. The length of time a ham is cured will influence the final flavor the most.

The standard is 3 days per pound with 10% pumping (i.e. a 15 pound ham will be cured for 45 days) and larger cuts 20 pounds and over may require 3.5 to 4 days per pound.

The only exception to this would be if you can vacuum the container and create a negative pressure within it. This will decrease the cure time to about 2.5 days per pound with regularly scheduled turning of the container.


However Len's recipe calls for a 48 hour cure on an 8 pound ham, but this is because he de-bones the meat opening it up into a much thinner flatter piece of meat, thus diminishing the thickness and curing time.

Also note that chlorine in water impedes the action of nitrites, so if you have chlorinated city water, maybe use bottled water instead.

amv81
11-20-2015, 12:21 PM
Thanks IamMadMan. I am going to cut the ham in two and inject. I read during more research that some inject at a 20%-30% rate which they said would cut down on brining time. So much good information, just wish I would have researched it earlier.

IamMadMan
11-20-2015, 06:33 PM
Keep us posted on the results..

Note: You can also slightly increase the degree of salinity of the cure (up to salinity of 70 Degree). A slightly higher degree of salinity will also slightly speed up the cure a little, but watch the balance as the product can become too salty.

amv81
11-20-2015, 07:34 PM
I cut the ham in two to cut down on smoke time. They were almost 8 lbs. and 9.5 lbs. with the bone. Injected 26 oz. of brine in the smaller one and 32 oz. in the larger one per the recipe for 60 deg salinity. They are sitting in a brine bag in a bucket in the fridge until Wed. I will keep you guys posted. In the mean time I trimmed a sorry looking brisket and am ready to do the virgin smoke in my new LSG tomorrow. Happy smoking.

amv81
11-27-2015, 05:05 PM
Well I have to say thanks for everyone's help with my issue, the hams turned out great. Followed the recipe, injected 20% by weight, and let in sit in the brine for 5 days. That was plenty of time for the brine to work, looked and tasted like a store bought ham but tasted 10 x's better. Also glazed with a peach brandy glaze. I will be repeating this project again very soon...... And now for your viewing pleasure!!!!

fantomlord
11-27-2015, 05:07 PM
nice job! Mine's getting injected and going into the brine tomorrow for next weekend!

Fattom
11-27-2015, 10:09 PM
I have been looking for a ham brine for sometime and it appears to be a bit complicated.

Originally Posted by amv81 http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3405784#post3405784)
Thanks for all of your hard work IamMadMan,fantomlord,MisterChrister. I will go with the
water 1 gal. (8.33lbs.) 3.80 kg
salt 1.32 lbs. 600 g
Cure #1 4.2 oz. 120 g
sugar 1.5 oz. 42 g

I did a little research and this brine is based on an educated guess if you didn't have the weight of the meat. The nitrite if used exactly as directed, with a 10% injection, would be at the highest end of what is allowed. Any more it would be in the unsafe zone. Injecting at 20% puts it well above the safety limits. Am I missing something here thinking amv81's hams are well above the safe limits for nitrites? Tom

pal156
11-27-2015, 10:36 PM
Looks delicious :thumb:

MisterChrister
11-27-2015, 11:42 PM
That. Is. Beautiful. Ham!

amv81
11-28-2015, 01:01 AM
Fattom I did a little research and this brine is based on an educated guess if you didn't have the weight of the meat. The nitrite if used exactly as directed, with a 10% injection, would be at the highest end of what is allowed. Any more it would be in the unsafe zone. Injecting at 20% puts it well above the safety limits. Am I missing something here thinking amv81's hams are well above the safe limits for nitrites? Tom I may have been mistaken about the recipe I ended up using after looking at what was in your post. I looked at a lot of recipes for brines and did a lot of research... all of the calculations and recipes ran into one. I used 54g of Cure # 1 per ham since I cut it into two separate hams. I wanted to be on the safe side since it was my first time and didn't want to get anyone sick, and figuring if I didn't use enough Cure #1 it would still be safe cooked to an IT of 165 deg. I have another link if the mods would allow it, that seems to take the guess work out of amounts and time. I do know that the amounts I used, the time it sat in brine, and the cooked IT temp all turned some great ham that didn't get anyone sick, which was the goal. Sorry for the confusion.
Adam

IamMadMan
11-28-2015, 06:12 AM
I have been looking for a ham brine for sometime and it appears to be a bit complicated.

Originally Posted by amv81 http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3405784#post3405784)
Thanks for all of your hard work IamMadMan,fantomlord,MisterChrister. I will go with the
water 1 gal. (8.33lbs.) 3.80 kg
salt 1.32 lbs. 600 g
Cure #1 4.2 oz. 120 g
sugar 1.5 oz. 42 g

I did a little research and this brine is based on an educated guess if you didn't have the weight of the meat. The nitrite if used exactly as directed, with a 10% injection, would be at the highest end of what is allowed. Any more it would be in the unsafe zone. Injecting at 20% puts it well above the safety limits. Am I missing something here thinking amv81's hams are well above the safe limits for nitrites? Tom

There is that possibility based on the fact that the meat will only absorb about 4% weight of the brine and if it were trapped in the meat and had no place to go he could have been over the maximum 200 ppm allowed by USDA guidelines.

He said that he read injecting at a 20% or even 30% would speed the curing process up, so I think we assumed he was following different directions and using lesser concentrations of the brine.

As we can see in amv81's post he did use a lesser concentration so everything went well for him according to his recipe.

Congratulations amv81 on a great looking pair of hams.