Costco Boneless Pork Shoulder ... a couple questions

[Q_Egg]

.... I'm a bit confused about what I'm smoking today. Costco has cryovac packs of two large boneless pork shoulders weighing a total of ~12 to 15 lbs. The one I'm smoking is a bit larger than the other ~ 8lbs. It looks like a large butt. When I went over this with an expereinced butcher at a local meat market, he showed me his packages of 'Boston butt' and picnic. He held them up and showed how the picnic went against the butt. His Boston butts (bone-in) weigh around 4 lbs. Obviously there's a major difference. ...BTW, there are lots of pig farms in Utah so these guys should be somewhat knowledgeable on the sibject. Nothing he showed me looks remotely like a picnic on the Costco shoulders. What am I smoking today?? ..... no druggie wisecracks please..

I'm open to looking at the diagrams showing various parts of the pigs anatomy, but most that I've seen do not address this specific question.

I'm going with Spice's post some time ago, smoking for 4 1/2 hours at 240*F, lump with pieces of cherry and pecan, ..... foiling to 195*F internal, .... then finishing for ~ 1 1/2 hrs with some Blue Collar glaze at the end.

??? that raises one more question .... if the last 1 1/2 hours unfoiled is to "firm up the bark" , then don't I defeat the purpose if I wrap again and put in a cooler? When using this (Spice's) cooking approach, do I just pull the pork right after removing and not cooler it ??

Obviously I am further behind the learning curve than I thought. It doesn't help my confidence that after all these months I burned the bottom crust on both loaves of bread on the BGE yesterday. Still great to eat, but not too attractive. Ch__t !

[HoDeDo]

Those are pork shoulder - just larger. Sam's butts ( albeit bone-in) are also typically larger than your butcher's butt. I typically buy the bone in at sam's, and butterfly next to the bone for additional rub coverage, but leave the bone. The 4lb-ers you typically can get at the grocery store are nice, but also illegal for comp. You have to cook a minimum of 5lb. for contest. Either should be fine for what you are doing.

[HoDeDo]

Jeff has some good pics showing the different muscles - cooked.... you might look for them in posts here.

[Q_Egg]

Those are pork shoulder - just larger. Sam's butts ( albeit bone-in) are also typically larger than your butcher's butt. I typically buy the bone in at sam's, and butterfly next to the bone for additional rub coverage, but leave the bone. ......
...Thanks Andy, Is there a simple way to sort out (on these specific shoulder cuts) where a typical Boston butt would start and end? Is the remaining piece going toward the tapered end that I see on a 'picnic' ?

Regards,

[Bigmista]

The picnic is the lower part of the front leg. It is the tapered end and usually has fat and/or skin going all the way around it.

The butt is the top part of the leg and usually only has a fat cap on on side.

If you were to pick up a whole front leg of a pig and hold it like a rifle, the butt would be the bigger end that you would put against your shoulder. Hence the name "butt".

The butt of the pig is the ham.

From Mistapedia

[Q_Egg]

The picnic is the lower part of the front leg. It is the tapered end and usually has fat and/or skin going all the way around it.

The butt is the top part of the leg and usually only has a fat cap on on side.

If you were to pick up a whole front leg of a pig and hold it like a rifle, the butt would be the bigger end that you would put against your shoulder. Hence the name "butt".

The butt of the pig is the ham.

From Mistapedia
Hey, that's a good visual image! I guess I'm trying to sort out why some are packaged as Boston butt (the ones I see are usually smaller ~4 to 5 lbs) and these larger ones called 'shoulder' .... BUT not tapering that much and definitely not having any of the 'picnic' appearance. Maybe I'm just seeing something I'm not used to because they are boneless and the shape is very different ?? Sorry, I'm not trying to be so ignorant ...

Thanks for helping

[thirdeye]

Hey, that's a good visual image! I guess I'm trying to sort out why some are packaged as Boston butt (the ones I see are usually smaller ~4 to 5 lbs) and these larger ones called 'shoulder' .... BUT not tapering that much and definitely not having any of the 'picnic' appearance. Maybe I'm just seeing something I'm not used to because they are boneless and the shape is very different ?? Sorry, I'm not trying to be so ignorant ...

Thanks for helping

Tom,

The names can be confusing. A full size bone-in butt will usually weigh in between 7 and 9 pounds. Picnic's can go heavier. The largest whole shoulder I have done came in around 22 pounds. Below is a cross section photo of steaks I cut from a butt. The yellow lines show possible choices the cutter has when cutting out a smaller roast. They typically separate them along the muscle division lines.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/thirdeye2/Barbecue%203/d6ab48e9.jpg

[Q_Egg]

The names can be confusing. A full size bone-in butt will usually weigh in between 7 and 9 pounds. Picnic's can go heavier. The largest whole shoulder I have done came in around 22 pounds. Below is a cross section photo of steaks I cut from a butt. The yellow lines show possible choices the cutter has when cutting out a smaller roast. They typically separate them along the muscle division lines.

Hi Wayne,

Thanks for these pics which help me better see the impact of removing the bone. These Costco 'shoulders' must be a combination of larger pigs, 'longer' cuts down the leg, but not so far that I see the clear taper toward the bottom.

With help from these posts I can really vizualize what these Costco cuts are and why they are so different from my past expereince at the local butcher shop.

Many thanks gentlemen

[beerguy]

Tom,

The names can be confusing. A full size bone-in butt will usually weigh in between 7 and 9 pounds. Picnic's can go heavier. The largest whole shoulder I have done came in around 22 pounds. Below is a cross section photo of steaks I cut from a butt. The yellow lines show possible choices the cutter has when cutting out a smaller roast. They typically separate them along the muscle division lines.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/thirdeye2/Barbecue%203/d6ab48e9.jpg


"John Madden" mod...

[Q_Egg]

OK ... when I can use words instead of pics, I understand better. Starting at the bottom of the leg, there is the picnic, then the butt, then the shoulder. Pigs are younger/older ... bigger/smaller .... so there is variation of size and weight for these different cuts. Is it accurate to say " a shoulder can contain a butt, but a butt does not indlude the shoulder"? Also, can more than one butt be cut from a large shoulder? For the best pulled pork, is the butt always preferable, or can the whole shoulder produce a similar quality of P-P product? What is the preference at comps for P-P?

I may beat this to death here, but then I'm done with it!

[jminion]

Chances are that what you got was two butts and not a whole shoulder, they package two butts that would average 6 to 8 pounds a piece.

I got a case of Bealers cryo'd square cut butts the other day, one of the packages went 22 pounds, those were some big butts.

The shoulder consists of the picnic (lower portion of the front leg) and the Butt, the top of the portion of the front leg. You can purchase in a few forms, the whole shoulder, the picnic alone and the butt alone. Both picnic and butt can be purchased bone in or removed.

Here is a picture of a whole shoulder (skin removed) it is about a quarter of the way down the page. http://www.paynecountyrust.com/How-To/How-ToEntries/Backyard%20Series%20WholeShoulder.htm

Bigmista the term boston butts comes from the 1700's when pork shoulder was packed in salt and placed in wooden kegs called "butts" for shipment by boat, but I like your verision better.

[thirdeye]

... For the best pulled pork, is the butt always preferable, or can the whole shoulder produce a similar quality of P-P product? What is the preference at comps for P-P? I may beat this to death here, but then I'm done with it!

Hands down, I don't think anything beats a whole shoulder when it comes to pulled pork. Something that size produces an amazing finished product. The problems are the physical size, the long cook time and availability.

I would think butts are more popular than picnics, but the picnics have some darker muscles and more bone which gives you a broader range of flavors and a slight texture change from a butt.

[HoDeDo]

Hands down, I don't think anything beats a whole shoulder when it comes to pulled pork. Something that size produces an amazing finished product. The problems are the physical size, the long cook time and availability.

I would think butts are more popular than picnics, but the picnics have some darker muscles and more bone which gives you a broader range of flavors and a slight texture change from a butt.

I like cooking whole shoulder also..... but to help with the size and time.... our butcher sells what are called BRTs. (Boned, rolled, Tied) so you geta whole shoulder, skin on the still - but boned and tied together to reduce the space it takes up in the cooker. we untie, season, retie... and cook away. for contests, we inject butts, to reduce cooking time and control the cut a little better. (that and we dont need 15lbs of meat for turn in)

So to go to the analogy Q was going for.... You have a whole shoulder... it is made up of a butt and a picnic. so " a Whole shoulder can contain a butt, but a butt does not contain a whole shoulder.... A Whole shoulder contains a picnic, but a not vice versa. so a picnic does not contain a butt, and vice versa :)
:icon_clown

[Q_Egg]

Chances are that what you got was two butts and not a whole shoulder, they package two butts that would average 6 to 8 pounds a piece. ..............(edit)

Here is a picture of a whole shoulder (skin removed) it is about a quarter of the way down the page. http://www.paynecountyrust.com/How-To/How-ToEntries/Backyard%20Series%20WholeShoulder.htm

Bigmista the term boston butts comes from the 1700's when pork shoulder was packed in salt and placed in wooden kegs called "butts" for shipment by boat, but I like your verision better.
Thanks for your comment and the link. I now think you are correct ..... ie 2 Butts, boneless, ~ 7-8 lbs each. What I have looks very different from the pics in the link and I feel I would have had no problem indentifying the (lower) picnic portion if it was present ... even with the bone removed.

Lot's to learn .........

[Q_Egg]

.... this is what I'm smoking today. 4 1/2 hrs in at ~250*F. Just removed to foil and back in 'til 195*F internal. I think this one is going to be my best yet!

[SmokeInDaEye]

OK ... when I can use words instead of pics, I understand better. Starting at the bottom of the leg, there is the picnic, then the butt, then the shoulder. Pigs are younger/older ... bigger/smaller .... so there is variation of size and weight for these different cuts. Is it accurate to say " a shoulder can contain a butt, but a butt does not indlude the shoulder"? Also, can more than one butt be cut from a large shoulder? For the best pulled pork, is the butt always preferable, or can the whole shoulder produce a similar quality of P-P product? What is the preference at comps for P-P?

I may beat this to death here, but then I'm done with it!

The picnic and the butt combine to create the "shoulder" (see below). I have never actually seen a whole, unseperated shoulder but would love to cook one someday.

http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/porkbuttselect_photos/porkselect_diagram.jpg

[SmokeInDaEye]

Also, check out the WSM site on pork butt selection. Great pix, descriptions and diagrams. http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/porkbuttselect.html

http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/porkbuttselect_photos/porkbutt8_sm.jpg (http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/porkbuttselect_photos/porkbutt8.jpg) http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/porkbuttselect_photos/porkbutt1_sm.jpg (http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/porkbuttselect_photos/porkbutt1.jpg)
http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/porkbuttselect_photos/porkbutt2_sm.jpg (http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/porkbuttselect_photos/porkbutt2.jpg)
Whole, Untrimmed Pork Butt In Cryovac
At the supermarket, whole or partial pork butts are sold individually, usually boneless and with much of the exterior fat removed.
Picture 1 shows a typical pork butt from a supermarket. The package contains one boneless roast weighing 3.99 pounds, probably a half portion of a whole butt. It is labeled, "Pork Shoulder - Blade Boston Butt Roast Boneless" and is priced at $2.79 per pound, or $1.99 per pound with the store's club card.
At the wholesale warehouse store, whole pork butts are usually sold in Cryovac packaging, two to a package, with the exterior fat intact. In the past, warehouse stores typically carried bone-in butts, but boneless butts are becoming more common.
Pictures 2 and 3 show a typical package of pork butts from a warehouse store. It contains two boneless roasts weighing a total of 19.23 pounds. Each roast weighs over 9 pounds. It is labeled, "Boneless Pork Shoulder" and is priced at $1.35 per pound. After trimming a total of 4.5 pounds of fat, these roasts cost the equivalent of $1.75 per pound.

[Q_Egg]

http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/porkbuttselect_photos/porkbutt1_sm.jpg (http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/porkbuttselect_photos/porkbutt1.jpg)
http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/porkbuttselect_photos/porkbutt2_sm.jpg (http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/porkbuttselect_photos/porkbutt2.jpg)
Whole, Untrimmed Pork Butt In Cryovac
At the supermarket, whole or partial pork butts are sold individually, usually boneless and with much of the exterior fat removed.
Picture 1 shows a typical pork butt from a supermarket. The package contains one boneless roast weighing 3.99 pounds, probably a half portion of a whole butt. It is labeled, "Pork Shoulder - Blade Boston Butt Roast Boneless" and is priced at $2.79 per pound, or $1.99 per pound with the store's club card.
At the wholesale warehouse store, whole pork butts are usually sold in Cryovac packaging, two to a package, with the exterior fat intact. In the past, warehouse stores typically carried bone-in butts, but boneless butts are becoming more common.
Pictures 2 and 3 show a typical package of pork butts from a warehouse store. It contains two boneless roasts weighing a total of 19.23 pounds. Each roast weighs over 9 pounds. It is labeled, "Boneless Pork Shoulder" and is priced at $1.35 per pound. After trimming a total of 4.5 pounds of fat, these roasts cost the equivalent of $1.75 per pound.

ALLRIGHTY NOW !!! That's what I have from Costco. I was so accustomed to seeing the "half portion of a whole butt" at the market that this cut got me way off track. Thanks much for taking time to post the pics and the link!

[big brother smoke]

Q:

Nice pics and happy eats! Good thing I had my coffee prior to this conversation.

[thirdeye]

.... this is what I'm smoking today. 4 1/2 hrs in at ~250*F. Just removed to foil and back in 'til 195*F internal. I think this one is going to be my best yet!

That should be very tasty Tom. You sure your vent settings are correct, because the BBQ satellite fly-by didn't detect any smoke in St. George other than a tailgater at the ball fields on Park View Dr. He had a Smokey Joe with some brats going.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/thirdeye2/Landscapes/f11f2b7f.jpg

[Q_Egg]

.... well, that area is near the land fill (dump) and the polution police are often snooping about. My 'bluesmoke' doesn't attract much attention, especially since I'm inhaling most of it as it comes off the dome.

This has been more informative for me than I anticipated. I'm definitely switching to Costco for much of my BBQ meat from now on.

Take care and thanks for good info.

Regards,

[Q_Egg]

Just a final pic after unfoiling. Internal temp is 203*F, half glazed with Blue Collar and half with Sweet Heat. It comes off in one hour to pull and PORK OUT !!!!

[Arlin_MacRae]

Good Lawd, Tom - that is one FINE looking piece of pork!

[thirdeye]

Whoa, that looks great. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/thirdeye2/Misc/dab4ce6c.gif

How did that get done so quick? I thought your first pic was only 4 hours into it.

[Q_Egg]

I was surprised as well ..... 4 1/2 hours smoke, foiled for another 3 1/2 hours and temp was aleady at 203*F when I poked the probe in. I unfoiled it, brushed the glaze on, put it back in the cooker for the final hour and took this pic. I watched the dome temp very closely and it never got to 300*F ..... much of the cook was an indicated 270*F dome. Since I rotated the dome about 90* CW, it is only about 15-20* above the main cooking grate temp. Does 8 hours seem way too fast for a boneless 8 lb butt ?? It was also fridge temp when it went in.

[Q_Egg]

Good Lawd, Tom - that is one FINE looking piece of pork!
Thank-you Arlin! This is one of those neat days when I learned a bunch and everything seemd to come together really well. This Forum never fails to help me 'crank it up a notch' .

Regards,

[thirdeye]

I was surprised as well ..... 4 1/2 hours smoke, foiled for another 3 1/2 hours and temp was aleady at 203*F when I poked the probe in. I unfoiled it, brushed the glaze on, put it back in the cooker for the final hour and took this pic. I watched the dome temp very closely and it never got to 300*F ..... much of the cook was an indicated 270*F dome. Since I rotated the dome about 90* CW, it is only about 15-20* above the main cooking grate temp. Does 8 hours seem way too fast for a boneless 8 lb butt ?? It was also fridge temp when it went in.

Hey, it seems to me your combination of time, temp & foil time was just about right if the butt told you it was done. Since were going to glaze it, and since it was boneless, I think you made the perfect call foiling it when you did. Let us know how you judge the flavor and the moistness.

[condy]

I've also learned a lot by reading this thread, porn looks great!
One quick queston though, it's clear what comes from the front leg, what about the back legs? How are those cut and sold/ packaged?

[Q_Egg]

.... as I said earlier, it's tough non ever having been privvy to 'quality' BBQ and there's definitely not much around here. With that as a qualifier, this butt was about as good as I could hope for ... at least at this stage of my education and experience. The bark was great ... not mushy or chewy or hard, and good flavor. My wife kept stirring in the bowl to find more bark. The meat itsrlf was competely cooked, but still moist and flavorful. Ended up with a large P-P (homemade bread) dinner for two, 2 ea. _1 lb Foodsaver bags for the freezer, and a 1.25 lb bag for our first, local Eggfest tomorrow.

Given that the next butt may cook differently, I will start the same, smoke longer (~5 to 5 1/2 hrs instead of 4 1/2), foil amd watch more closely to 195*F and then finish the same (~1 1/2 hrs with a late glaze). The combination of slightly high cooker temps (~ 250*F) and allowing the foiled internal temp to get to 205*F causes me to want to figure out if I can do better. This cook is a very good benchmark for me.

Thanks for hanging in there for the entire day

[Kevin]

The hind quarter is ham. Not much to eat below that.

[Plowboy]

I personally don't like the Costco boneless butts. The bone adds flavor and keeps the moisture in. I don't know why they went to boneless.

[Q_Egg]

I personally don't like the Costco boneless butts. The bone adds flavor and keeps the moisture in. I don't know why they went to boneless.
Can't disagree, but small town limits choices. Smiths, Albertsons, Harmons (Utah chain), WalMart (Superstore), Costco. Harmons has a 'real' butcher shop ... their butts are small <5lbs bone-in. I'll make another visit to see if they can sort out and hold larger ones for me. I'm learning and it's worth a try.

Thanks

[Plowboy]

Can't disagree, but small town limits choices. Smiths, Albertsons, Harmons (Utah chain), WalMart (Superstore), Costco. Harmons has a 'real' butcher shop ... their butts are small <5lbs bone-in. I'll make another visit to see if they can sort out and hold larger ones for me. I'm learning and it's worth a try.

Thanks

What was the price per pound in your area?

[Q_Egg]

What was the price per pound in your area?
Costco sells these 2-packs of boneless for $1.59 / lb.

Local butcher shop usually gets $2.49/lb .... sales anywhere from $1.79 to $2.29 / lb. I like their pork and personal help, but need to get them to provide larger butts.

[Rockaway BeachBQ]

Talk to your butcher. Give him two days lead time and you can get anything you want at most shops.