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View Full Version : What the heck is in my charcoal???


bproffer
03-16-2015, 05:31 PM
It has been an interesting charcoal week for me. I have always heard of finding odds and ends that are not charcoal sometimes, especially if using hardwood lump. I have occasionally found small stones, pieces of un-burnt plywood etc, but this week was fascinating.

First was a bag of Royal Oak lump. I was doing a practice burn playing around with the Assassin, and as I poured the remains of a half used bag of RO lump down the chute, I heard a big clang sound. So I empty the chute and find these sitting there:

http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww279/bproffer/6D5255DF-CC15-4075-9728-5ECF291DD5FD_zps5qaafqxw.jpg

WTH is that (not the white rock...lol). It looks like a meteorite. I am glad I found it before I lit the coals.


Next up, was a bag of Trader Joe's (Rancher) 100% hardwood briquettes. As I was pouring charcoal into the chimney lighter, this caught my eye:

http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww279/bproffer/79C2C49D-A7A8-4815-8C44-DA1298C23E5E_zpscro5odky.jpg

Looks like some companies really need to step up their quality control.

Anyways, I know I am not the only one to find strange items in their charcoal, so post up oddities you have found!

Ol'Joe
03-16-2015, 05:41 PM
Another reason to use the KBB, pretty dependable as to content.

Happy Hapgood
03-16-2015, 05:46 PM
I bought some cowboy lump and it had pieces of door trim and some kind of fiber board looking stuff in it. Like what is swept up from a construction site floor.

stephan
03-16-2015, 05:47 PM
:pop2:

SteveKing
03-16-2015, 05:59 PM
Looks like slag

Larry S
03-16-2015, 06:04 PM
I quit buying Frontier lump because about 1lb. of a 20lb. bag was rocks.

Larry S

jread23
03-16-2015, 06:12 PM
I get one of those white rocks in almost every bag of royal oak lump.

Garrett
03-16-2015, 06:15 PM
It's normal!

Bushman5
03-16-2015, 06:39 PM
i just learned how to make my own charcoal...........cheaper than buying rocks.....

cliffcarter
03-16-2015, 07:20 PM
I remember someone on The Smoke Ring found a melted and mangled cel phone in a bag of RO lump about 5-6 years ago.

mikemci
03-16-2015, 07:27 PM
It looks like a meteorite, or something from Star Trek. I know a guy who always scoops a little dirt in the aluminum cans he picks up to sell :tsk:

Skip
03-16-2015, 08:23 PM
Cowboy and other lump charcoal have been made from construction waste. The other looks like slag. Probably some sort of metal separated in the the production.

1buckie
03-16-2015, 10:05 PM
Looks like slag


It does.....just like copper smelter slag....only made out of lead.....:twitch::loco:

I gave up on the Trader Joe's stuff when I kept getting the nylon thread they use for the bag closure EMBEDDED in the briquettes.....I hope that's a nail & not a bullet......

Doug Crann
03-16-2015, 10:08 PM
I get one of those white rocks in almost every bag of royal oak lump.
Same here. I often find what looks to be fiberglass mesh of sorts as well....

Doug Crann
03-16-2015, 10:56 PM
Perhaps it was a small Boeing Bomb?

Joe Dirt - "Meteor" - YouTube

5string
03-16-2015, 11:24 PM
Love Cowboy lump, it's like a box of CrackerJacks, there's a "prize" in every bag.

Wolverine
03-17-2015, 04:22 AM
I think we all get a rock or chunk of what the hell is that in our bags. And some say its ok and normal live with it and cook on. However i say BS and some are missing the point. Charcoal is sold by the pound, If there is a 1/2 or even 1/4 pound rock in each bag the company is making a huge profit by selling you a farking rock. Just imagine how many 1/2 pennies are floating around in the banking world.

SteveKing
03-17-2015, 08:08 AM
I think we all get a rock or chunk of what the hell is that in our bags. And some say its ok and normal live with it and cook on. However i say BS and some are missing the point. Charcoal is sold by the pound, If there is a 1/2 or even 1/4 pound rock in each bag the company is making a huge profit by selling you a farking rock. Just imagine how many 1/2 pennies are floating around in the banking world.


I thought I'd figure out what volume of rock/steel is required to amount to 0.25lbs. I'm a geostructural engineer who has specializes in support of excavations and tunnels, so I'm qualified to do this type of analysis. I ran the calculations and based on the cubic weight of limestone (those white rocks appear to be that) and steel, the diameter of a sphere for each material to weigh in at 0.25lbs individually are 1.8 inches and 1.2 inches respectively. So yeah, it don't take much for that to add up. A typical rock found in a bag is nearly that size, so they are screwing us. Intentional? Probably, that's for a court to figure out. :mad2:

G$
03-17-2015, 08:24 AM
A typical rock found in a bag is nearly that size, so they are screwing us. Intentional? Probably, that's for a court to figure out. :mad2:

I think it would cost more to add 1 rock to a bag of charcoal than they would see in profit. Intentional? Probably not. Careless? Probably.

SteveKing
03-17-2015, 08:26 AM
I think it would cost more to add 1 rock to a bag of charcoal than they would see in profit. Intentional? Probably not. Careless? Probably.

That's the job for a forensic accountant to look at. But I can tell you rock is cheaper than hardwood lump charcoal by weight.

Either way, it's either intentional or neglect. Both cases the manufacturer is at fault.

Will work for bbq
03-17-2015, 08:29 AM
I once found a copy of the declaration of independence in a bag. :becky:

























Seriously though just rocks and nails here but I think I'd be more upset with finding plywood. The glue in that stuff can't be good for you.

Skip
03-17-2015, 08:31 AM
I think it would cost more to add 1 rock to a bag of charcoal than they would see in profit. Intentional? Probably not. Careless? Probably.

Being in manufacturing and knowing the bagging operation the introduction of one stone would be difficult at best. What you are seeing is an unpaved storage bin for finished product based with a stone product. As the skidsteer or payloader grabs material they will inadvertently pull some of the stone and dump it to the hopper. The material will then load to the bag with the charcoal. The only way to stop this for them is to pave the hopper base with asphalt or concrete. That can be an added cost they are unwilling to utilize since "it works fine as it is".

Enrico Brandizzi
03-17-2015, 08:40 AM
All that stuff is heavy and you paid for it! Not good!

SteveKing
03-17-2015, 08:44 AM
Being in manufacturing and knowing the bagging operation the introduction of one stone would be difficult at best. What you are seeing is an unpaved storage bin for finished product based with a stone product. As the skidsteer or payloader grabs material they will inadvertently pull some of the stone and dump it to the hopper. The material will then load to the bag with the charcoal. The only way to stop this for them is to pave the hopper base with asphalt or concrete. That can be an added cost they are unwilling to utilize since "it works fine as it is".


This sounds like the most realistic scenario. That said, the manufacturer must know that they are not providing a bag of just charcoal. I can see some laborer saying "Hey there are a few rocks in each of my loads, should I pull them out?" and the foreman/super saying "Nah, that'd take too long. Besides, we sell everything by weight!".

Finding slag is strange though, why would they have that lying around? I know I've found slag before... even terra cotta pieces.

Has anyone noticed a disclaimer on the bags that say something like "May contain rocks or construction debris"?

Skip
03-17-2015, 08:53 AM
This sounds like the most realistic scenario. That said, the manufacturer must know that they are not providing a bag of just charcoal. I can see some laborer saying "Hey there are a few rocks in each of my loads, should I pull them out?" and the foreman/super saying "Nah, that'd take too long. Besides, we sell everything by weight!".

Finding slag is strange though, why would they have that lying around? I know I've found slag before... even terra cotta pieces.

Production vs housekeeping. Production wins every time :)

The slag probably isn't from a smelter creating clean metal but rather the separation of an alloy that found itself in the kiln used to create the charcoal.



Has anyone noticed a disclaimer on the bags that say something like "May contain rocks or construction debris"?

Believe it or not I do feel I have read something like that. I believe it stated something along the lines of "(insert name here) charcoal is made from a wood construction debris and as such may contain small errant pieces of construction debris". Those white stones are probably no more than 20 grams at most.

Here is a great resource
http://www.nakedwhiz.com/lumprankpoll.htm

SteveKing
03-17-2015, 09:02 AM
Those white stones are probably no more than 20 grams at most.



What do you think they are made of then? I remember getting them in my bags, but I really haven't used lump in years.

drjiveturkey
03-17-2015, 09:11 AM
A lot of companies use scrap wood so my guess is that it was furniture in its former life. For lump I usually buy on amazon. Amazon.com : Quebracho QHWC40LB 40-Pound Carbon de Lena Hardwood Charcoal Bag : Outdoor Grilling Charcoal : Patio, Lawn & Garden@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/515HDJ67DgL.@@AMEPARAM@@515HDJ67DgL

Never had a problem with rocks. But its pretty expenseive at about $1 per pound

SmokinJohn
03-17-2015, 09:41 AM
A Space peanut?

Skip
03-17-2015, 10:22 AM
What do you think they are made of then? I remember getting them in my bags, but I really haven't used lump in years.

Its probably just quarried stone used as a base for the hopper. I would guess it is probably limestone or granite but possibly a sandstone depending on where in the country it is manufactured.

Doug Crann
03-17-2015, 10:39 AM
I have been using
http://www.lazzari.com/index.html
From Cash & Carry 40 pounds is $14.39. Wife & I cannot tell one smoke from another so it being Mesquite is not a problem. On our 7th or so bag and have found nothing but wood in it. Granted, some pieces are pretty big but ain't nothing a quick smack with an ax won't take care of...

SteveKing
03-17-2015, 10:50 AM
Its probably just quarried stone used as a base for the hopper. I would guess it is probably limestone or granite but possibly a sandstone depending on where in the country it is manufactured.

That white rock doesn't look like metamorphic, granite is out. Def sedimentary. So if it's limestone, sandstone, or even neat concrete those figures I posted above are in the ballpark. Won't be much change in volume to accommodate the weight differences in those types of materials.

ButtBurner
03-17-2015, 10:58 AM
they make the stuff by burning wood in huge concrete basins at super high temps

sometimes the concrete, insulation etc gets into the bags

this has been discussed here many times in the past

YetiDave
03-17-2015, 12:03 PM
Trees will often grow around bits of stone and anything else in their way.. I really wouldn't worry

Skip
03-17-2015, 12:32 PM
That white rock doesn't look like metamorphic, granite is out. Def sedimentary. So if it's limestone, sandstone, or even neat concrete those figures I posted above are in the ballpark. Won't be much change in volume to accommodate the weight differences in those types of materials.


Actually granite is an igneous rock. Marble is metamorphic.

What did you use for the unit weight of limestone in your calculation. I see you do tunneling and wonder if you are figuring the unit weight of a solid block or that of the crushed stone. The volume is different relative to mass. Also I work with multiple sources of aggregate and have found that even the specific gravities of different limestone products can vary greatly. I have seen trap rock and granite with specific gravity near 3.000 and limestone as high as 2.850 while I have had limestone and granite specific gravities of 2.650.

Not that any of this means a hill of beans in relation to charcoal :laugh:

SteveKing
03-17-2015, 01:06 PM
Actually granite is an igneous rock. Marble is metamorphic.

What did you use for the unit weight of limestone in your calculation. I see you do tunneling and wonder if you are figuring the unit weight of a solid block or that of the crushed stone. The volume is different relative to mass. Also I work with multiple sources of aggregate and have found that even the specific gravities of different limestone products can vary greatly. I have seen trap rock and granite with specific gravity near 3.000 and limestone as high as 2.850 while I have had limestone and granite specific gravities of 2.650.

Not that any of this means a hill of beans in relation to charcoal :laugh:
Igneous, my bad. I used 145pcf based upon my professional experience in tunneling and reviewing dozens of data reports of white, unweathered limestone around the US (general found in south central to southeast US). Analysis using a unit weight of crushed stone / gravel would not be appropriate. Specific gravity could be used, but it adds another step to an already simple calculation. My steps for analysis are as followed. Assume unit weight, calculate volume for a specimen weighing 0.25lbs, take volume of sphere equation and solve for diameter using volume of the specimen.

It sounds like others are saying it's concrete, so a unit weight of 150pcf is general practice for that. The difference in size from first analysis is minimal.

dadsr4
03-17-2015, 01:20 PM
Has anyone contacted a manufacturer and gotten a response?

Skip
03-17-2015, 02:28 PM
Igneous, my bad. I used 145pcf based upon my professional experience in tunneling and reviewing dozens of data reports of white, unweathered limestone around the US (general found in south central to southeast US). Analysis using a unit weight of crushed stone / gravel would not be appropriate. Specific gravity could be used, but it adds another step to an already simple calculation. My steps for analysis are as followed. Assume unit weight, calculate volume for a specimen weighing 0.25lbs, take volume of sphere equation and solve for diameter using volume of the specimen.

It sounds like others are saying it's concrete, so a unit weight of 150pcf is general practice for that. The difference in size from first analysis is minimal.

Hmm why would you feel that unit weight of crushed aggregate wouldn't work. Also using the SG doesn't add a step it is the precursor to pcf. pcf/62.4 will give you the SG and visa versa. By using the SG you will garner a more accurate pcf. For instance in my region a test cylinder of concrete is approximately 34 lbs and the cylinder is .2 cf which means that the concrete would be 170 pcf or an SG of 2.724.

I questioned the 145 pcf because it is only a 2.324 SG which is quite low for stone. I would imagine it is a relative bulk specific gravity determined on crushed aggregate using the shoveling method of unit weight. A maximum specific gravity on southeastern limestone tends to be around 160-165 pcf. I am figuring your calculations in tunneling are for volume of excavated material for removal?

SteveKing
03-17-2015, 03:19 PM
Hmm why would you feel that unit weight of crushed aggregate wouldn't work. Also using the SG doesn't add a step it is the precursor to pcf. pcf/62.4 will give you the SG and visa versa. By using the SG you will garner a more accurate pcf. For instance in my region a test cylinder of concrete is approximately 34 lbs and the cylinder is .2 cf which means that the concrete would be 170 pcf or an SG of 2.724.

I questioned the 145 pcf because it is only a 2.324 SG which is quite low for stone. I would imagine it is a relative bulk specific gravity determined on crushed aggregate using the shoveling method of unit weight. A maximum specific gravity on southeastern limestone tends to be around 160-165 pcf. I am figuring your calculations in tunneling are for volume of excavated material for removal?


What do you do for a living? It'll be easier to explain the analysis so we don't keep a back and forth going over this. And my experience goes beyond tunnels, that is only one specialty of mine.

SuburbSlicker
03-19-2015, 10:43 AM
In our area, suburban DC on the Virginia side, white rocks in front of a house mean only one thing: Swingers Inside!

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/409421.page

Late one night, on the fire truck, we moved a number of large white boulders in front of the home of one of our members. Rumors spread.... Hilarity ensued....Until our chief made us remove them....

jcog44
03-19-2015, 11:25 AM
Which Royal Oak is it? There are at least 5 Royal Oak Lump charcoals available (Royal Oak, Royal Oak Steakhouse, Royal Oak Argentinian, Royal Oak Brazilian, and Royal Oak Paraguay).

Check out nakedwhizz.com at http://www.nakedwhiz.com/lumpindexpage.htm?bag for these and many others.

You can click on the bag for reviews. Click on the banner at the top for the home page and other options such as test results and user reviews.

Great resource.