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View Full Version : Experiments in Brisket #1 - Franklin v Lewis


Brew n Que
07-26-2014, 12:57 PM
New smoker arrived this week! 24 x 48, 1/4" main chamber, 3/8" firebox.
http://i.imgur.com/dTfcKH0l.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/fnzDTc6l.jpg

Since I am a brisket man, I am experimenting to see what I like best. First up, I am experimenting to see whose rub I like better, the standard S&P rub advocated by Franklin, or John Lewis' mustard/pickle juice slather with Lawrys, S&P, and garlic.

First, here is a good example of why you can't judge a brisket on grade alone. The choice in this case had more marbling than the prime.
http://i.imgur.com/Bf273mxl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/9sKCup4l.jpg

Franklin brisket (14 lb choice) trimmed to 10.5 lbs. I trim aggressively because I don't want me or my guests to be scraping off fat and bark after cooking. So, I tried for 1/8" ish of fat on the flat. This will give the flat slices a good flavor boost and moisture.
http://i.imgur.com/nPi2RwLl.jpg

Rubbed
http://i.imgur.com/Qcp6zO5l.jpg

Lewis Brisket (11.5 lb prime) trimmed to 8.5 lbs.
http://i.imgur.com/qR1nOBwl.jpg

Slathered and rubbed
http://i.imgur.com/Z8wqXtQl.jpg

And I had a third brisket, so I trimmed and rubbed with this:
http://i.imgur.com/WDLpwZIl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/1r1bI4kl.jpg

I plan on cranking up the pit this evening and going 250ish using post oak only. Will wrap in BP if color starts to get too dark. More pics to come later!

voidecho
07-26-2014, 01:01 PM
Looking forward to the final pics....and results.

That's a lot of beef. Probably over $300 here.

pjtexas1
07-26-2014, 02:44 PM
Looks like about $3/LB. That is what HEB charged me for my last couple of primes ($2.78/LB). Marbling looks really good. Can't wait to see the end results and sliced pics.

thunter
07-26-2014, 02:46 PM
I can't wait to see the results! :grin:

mchar69
07-26-2014, 02:49 PM
Can't wait as well - at Costco here - it's $7.99/lb.

JoSal73
07-26-2014, 03:00 PM
Very nice! Thank you very much for sharing your experiment !!

tortaboy
07-26-2014, 04:49 PM
Looking forward to the final pics....and results.

That's a lot of beef. Probably over $300 here.

Where are you buying your meat?

voidecho
07-26-2014, 05:12 PM
Where are you buying your meat?

Not to hijack the thread, but I was going to post a thread about best places to buy brisket in the Bay Area. I've had a hard time finding full packer briskets. The one I bought in Pleasant Hill was $7.99/lb for Choice. Every place else I check only has flats. I know some of the places I've checked will order packers, but I'm not sure on the price.

tortaboy
07-26-2014, 05:15 PM
Not to hijack the thread, but I was going to post a thread about best places to buy brisket in the Bay Area. I've had a hard time finding full packer briskets. The one I bought in Pleasant Hill was $7.99/lb for Choice. Every place else I check only has flats. I know some of the places I've checked will order packers, but I'm not sure on the price.

Have you ever bought at Smart and Final? They don't have choice, but Select works just fine for me at like $3.89-$4.19lb.

morgan-que
07-26-2014, 06:15 PM
Brisket...............nuf said

pjtexas1
07-26-2014, 07:19 PM
And I had a third brisket, so I trimmed and rubbed with this:

http://i.imgur.com/WDLpwZIl.jpg

I need to know where you bought the Bevo Burn. I have this Sooner brethren that I need to send this to.:heh:

dummy que
07-26-2014, 07:40 PM
Looks like about $3/LB. That is what HEB charged me for my last couple of primes ($2.78/LB). Marbling looks really good. Can't wait to see the end results and sliced pics.
you halve got to be chiting me 2.78/lb. her we halve same numbers just not in same order by way NICE PIT :thumb::thumb::thumb:

pjtexas1
07-26-2014, 07:51 PM
you halve got to be chiting me 2.78/lb. her we halve same numbers just not in same order by way NICE PIT :thumb::thumb::thumb:

Got them 3 times this year for $2.78/lb. Also paid $3.97/lb once. I try to buy at least 2 each time. I have a hard time thinking about cooking those selects I got at Wal-Mart for $1.67/lb and I still have 6 left.

landarc
07-26-2014, 08:42 PM
Voidecho, go to Cash and Carry if you have one near you, they carry both Angus and Excel packers in Select and Choice, prices are good and you can always find packers.

Brew n Que
07-26-2014, 09:05 PM
I need to know where you bought the Bevo Burn. I have this Sooner brethren that I need to send this to.:heh:

I got it as a gift, but i have heard you can get it through Aggieland outfitters.

SlowSmoked
07-26-2014, 09:46 PM
That Franklin brisket is rubbed WAY TOO LIGHT.....

Brew n Que
07-26-2014, 10:01 PM
That Franklin brisket is rubbed WAY TOO LIGHT.....

No, it's not. I've done the Franklin brisket many times before, and it always turns out great. The thing about salt and pepper only is that you don't need as much as with a rub that has lots of other components.

Enrico Brandizzi
07-27-2014, 04:24 AM
Which final IT are you looking for?. I'm in 196 now with mine 10 lbs packer. i' m looking for 201

Brew n Que
07-27-2014, 05:21 AM
Which final IT are you looking for?. I'm in 196 now with mine 10 lbs packer. i' m looking for 201

I'll start probing for tenderness around 195, but i expect it to be above 200 by the time it's done. Briskets have been on 10 hours now. IT is currently at 167.

Brew n Que
07-27-2014, 08:14 AM
After 11.5 hours of smoke, the briskets are starting to get pretty dark, so I decided to wrap them up in butcher paper. All 3 rubs produced basically the same bark. Internal temps are around 180 right now.

The Lewis Brisket:
http://i.imgur.com/bZak2yDl.jpg

The Franklin Brisket:
http://i.imgur.com/dJErzVXl.jpg

The Bevo Burn Brisket:
http://i.imgur.com/pVEn6qXl.jpg

frognot
07-27-2014, 08:38 AM
Great thread here. Looking forward to results.

Last time I had brisket done 3 different ways was the North Texas Spring Bash.

PappaOscar
07-27-2014, 08:58 AM
Nicely done Brew.

aks801
07-27-2014, 09:34 AM
The bark along with patches of the brown coloration look fantastic! Anxious to get the full report.

landarc
07-27-2014, 02:51 PM
Interesting progress pictures, I expected at least a little difference.

pjtexas1
07-27-2014, 03:25 PM
Nice bark. Can't wait to see the sliced pics.

sliding_billy
07-27-2014, 04:37 PM
Nice looking so far.

Sallenthornton
07-27-2014, 05:34 PM
Looking good!

Brew n Que
07-27-2014, 06:02 PM
Will post pics tomorrow. I didn't sleep at all so I am a little delirious and am on my way to bed. Long story short, new smoker is incredible, made my 2 best briskets ever. Perfect bark, perfect tenderness and rendering.

SlowSmoked
07-27-2014, 06:20 PM
No, it's not. I've done the Franklin brisket many times before, and it always turns out great. The thing about salt and pepper only is that you don't need as much as with a rub that has lots of other components.

looks great on the exterior! I personally use more pepper (having grown up in central TX). Looking forward to the sliced pics!

mikemci
07-27-2014, 09:28 PM
That Franklin brisket is rubbed WAY TOO LIGHT.....[/QUOTE]

looks great on the exterior! I personally use more pepper (having grown up in central TX). Looking forward to the sliced pics![/QUOTE]

I've been in San Antonio since 1950. Still here! Not in Colorado. That Franklin rub is right on!

https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A2KLqIMgtdVTXG4A3937w8QF;_ylu=X3oDMTByZW c0dGJtBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQDBGdwb3MDMQ--?p=aaron+franklin%2C+the+cook&vid=ad72db6c41d909c71781d2bd4b5d4e79&l=6%3A58&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts4.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DVN.6 07994685892791275%26pid%3D15.1&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DpG Z39yYxeBk&tit=BBQ+with+%3Cb%3EFranklin%3C%2Fb%3E%3A+%3Cb%3ET he+Cook%3C%2Fb%3E&c=0&sigr=11a1n2fud&sigt=119h4socc&age=0&&tt=b

AaronPo
07-27-2014, 11:41 PM
Got them 3 times this year for $2.78/lb. Also paid $3.97/lb once. I try to buy at least 2 each time. I have a hard time thinking about cooking those selects I got at Wal-Mart for $1.67/lb and I still have 6 left.

Don't think, just send them to me. I'll PM you my address! :roll:

tsimm15
07-28-2014, 01:05 AM
Man what a bark.

Brew n Que
07-28-2014, 07:29 AM
Ok, now that I am all caught up on sleep, here are the results:

First off, the smoker. It worked like a champ. Overnight, it stayed pretty rock solid at around 250 with a log every 45-50 minutes. In the morning, the wind picked up a bit and blew directly at the intake vents, so the smoker settled in around 285-300 for the last part of the smoke. I didn't worry about it and just let it ride. The only thing I don't like about the smoker is that it leaks quite a bit out the main door, so I am going to see about getting some gasket material to install around the lip of the door. Even with the leak, it still gets a great draft out of the chimney. The temp does vary somewhat from one side of the chamber to the other, but I like that because it allows me to set up so different sized meats finish roughly at the same time.

Now for the briskets.

The Lewis brisket (8.5 lbs trimmed weight, prime) was done first after 15.5 hours.
http://i.imgur.com/5koNh9Wl.jpg

Next, the Franklin brisket (10.5 lbs trimmed weight, choice) came off after 16 hours.
http://i.imgur.com/ttEDYXLl.jpg

Finally, the Bevo Burn brisket (12 lbs trimmed weight, select) came off after 16.5 hours (sorry, I didn't get any pics of it at this point or beyond)

Here are flat and point slices side by side. Left side is Franklin, right side is Lewis.
http://i.imgur.com/S6dubbnl.jpg
As you can see, the 2 are indistinguishable by looks. bark was the same on both. Also, notice on the flat slices that you can barely see the fat cap. This is what I was going for. It was there and you could definitely taste it, but it was not so much that you were tasting a gooey glob of fat.

The Franklin brisket was cooked to a slightly more done tenderness and also had more marbling. It was almost on the verge of falling apart. Perfect!
http://i.imgur.com/hVwN7Skl.jpg

The Lewis brisket was still nice and tender and juicy.
http://i.imgur.com/x9Otr8tl.jpg

And one more gratuitous shot to show that lovely bark. This is the Franklin brisket.
http://i.imgur.com/joO3lGSl.jpg
I have heard people say that you can't get a good bark on top of the fat cap. Please stop saying that. Here is your proof that you can.

OK, so how do the 2 taste? Well, I might have to go back and try them again tonight. I think my taste buds were shot after being in smoke for so long. I just barely tasted a difference in the 2. The Lewis brisket tasted just a bit "smoother", whereas the Franklin one had a nice sharp "bite" to it. Again, it was just the slightest of differences, and I honestly could not pick a favorite. The 15 guests I had over also could not tell a difference or pick a favorite. I'll report back after I taste again tonight.

One final note on bark. I hear a lot of people talk about a crunchy or crispy bark. Personally, I don't like that. Even though the bark was meteorite black, it was not crispy. It is what I have heard people describe as "snappy". It was sticky, had some nice texture, and had a good bit of pull to it. I think the BP definitely helps to achieve this.

In all, it was a great weekend! Thanks for looking!

Single Malt Slacker
07-28-2014, 07:56 AM
Great report, Brew. All of the brisket looks great. Definitely reinforces the fact that there are many ways to produce quality Q! Thanks for sharing.

daninnewjersey
07-28-2014, 07:57 AM
Bravo sir.....

peeps
07-28-2014, 07:59 AM
Nice work...but why leave out the results of the Bevo Burn brisket? Would like to see how it compares if you have the pics and how you thought it compared in taste.

code3rrt
07-28-2014, 08:16 AM
Looks beautiful, thanks for sharing your experiment!

KC

Brew n Que
07-28-2014, 08:28 AM
Nice work...but why leave out the results of the Bevo Burn brisket? Would like to see how it compares if you have the pics and how you thought it compared in taste.

A couple reasons. First, I smoked the Bevo Burn brisket for a friend, so I didn't slice it and serve it. Also, I was very tired at this point, so I just wanted to finish up. I have had the Bevo Burn before, and it definitely tastes different. It is more spice based than black pepper based. I think I prefer S&P or the Lewis rub more than the Bevo Burn, but that's just personal preference. In terms of looks, the Bevo Burn one really looked no different than the other 2.

unixadm
07-28-2014, 10:06 AM
Nicely done. Looks great and you did a hell of a job keeping us informed! :)

landarc
07-28-2014, 11:41 AM
Came out nice from what I see, and interesting the differences you found

Novass
07-28-2014, 01:01 PM
you can seal the door with high temp rtv, just make sure you use wax paper so you don't seal the door to the pit while it cures. lol

JoSal73
07-28-2014, 03:43 PM
So no real difference between the more complex Lewis rub and just plain old S&P? Less ingredients to worry about would be a winner for me and I'll be sticking to that for brisket rubs.

Thanks for the updates!

Brew n Que
07-28-2014, 09:45 PM
Ok, so I went back tonight and tried both briskets again. Honestly, this time I didn't taste any difference at all. I was really surprised. Just out of curiosity, I did some math on the Lewis rub, and it works out to the following by-weight percentages: 51% salt, 28% pepper, 21% other spices. I would think that the 21% would give some kind of additional flavor, but maybe it just can't compete with the amount of strong pepper flavor and beef flavor.

wladrules
07-28-2014, 11:02 PM
Nicely done!

SlowSmoked
07-31-2014, 03:56 PM
That Franklin brisket is rubbed WAY TOO LIGHT.....

looks great on the exterior! I personally use more pepper (having grown up in central TX). Looking forward to the sliced pics![/QUOTE]

I've been in San Antonio since 1950. Still here! Not in Colorado. That Franklin rub is right on!

https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A2KLqIMgtdVTXG4A3937w8QF;_ylu=X3oDMTByZW c0dGJtBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQDBGdwb3MDMQ--?p=aaron+franklin%2C+the+cook&vid=ad72db6c41d909c71781d2bd4b5d4e79&l=6%3A58&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts4.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DVN.6 07994685892791275%26pid%3D15.1&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DpG Z39yYxeBk&tit=BBQ+with+%3Cb%3EFranklin%3C%2Fb%3E%3A+%3Cb%3ET he+Cook%3C%2Fb%3E&c=0&sigr=11a1n2fud&sigt=119h4socc&age=0&&tt=b[/QUOTE]


::starts slow clap::

easy there old timer. I spent 35 years in central TX. I've only been in CO for 3 years. Loosen up a little ;)

gtr
07-31-2014, 05:42 PM
Nicely done all around sir! Everything looks great.

mikemci
07-31-2014, 07:45 PM
Thank you for all your work on this comparison brewncue! I guess I will stick to my "WAY TOO LIGHT" Franklin rub!

mikemci
07-31-2014, 08:17 PM
looks great on the exterior! I personally use more pepper (having grown up in central TX). Looking forward to the sliced pics!

I've been in San Antonio since 1950. Still here! Not in Colorado. That Franklin rub is right on!

https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A2KLqIMgtdVTXG4A3937w8QF;_ylu=X3oDMTByZW c0dGJtBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQDBGdwb3MDMQ--?p=aaron+franklin%2C+the+cook&vid=ad72db6c41d909c71781d2bd4b5d4e79&l=6%3A58&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts4.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DVN.6 07994685892791275%26pid%3D15.1&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DpG Z39yYxeBk&tit=BBQ+with+%3Cb%3EFranklin%3C%2Fb%3E%3A+%3Cb%3ET he+Cook%3C%2Fb%3E&c=0&sigr=11a1n2fud&sigt=119h4socc&age=0&&tt=b[/QUOTE]


::starts slow clap::

easy there old timer. I spent 35 years in central TX. I've only been in CO for 3 years. Loosen up a little ;)[/QUOTE]

The WAY TOO LIGHT quote was yours. In your reply you have made it look like mine. Let's keep it real kiddo. :mrgreen:

TailGateJoecom
08-01-2014, 12:46 AM
That Franklin brisket is rubbed WAY TOO LIGHT.....

looks right to me. That looks like a course grind black pepper, you can't coat it like you do with a commercial rub. I think the OP is on the right track.

Is It Ready Yet?
08-01-2014, 01:14 AM
Thanks for sharing!

JT's Smokehouse
08-01-2014, 06:57 AM
Man nicely done on all three! I'm gonna do my first brisket in the Lang tomorrow. I may post some pics here too! :grin: