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View Full Version : Temp overshoot with no water !


Jesseroberge
07-21-2014, 08:05 PM
I have a WSM 18" 1/2 and was told to not put water in the pan because I was not able to get passed 225 degrees even with an ATC...

While waiting for my puffy white smoke to stop and get this thin blue smoke to get my ribs going, (give or take 45 mims to an hour) the pit probe over shot to 303 degrees before I panicked and added a half pan of tap hot water and then the ribs... At 225 I was back in the dang rat race again...

If I would have added just the meat still keeping my water pan empty would it have stabilized to 250?

I understand that the more things I have to heat IE: water,meat and drum, the more energy i'm asking my WSM, stabilizing my smoke before adding my meat seems to mean instant overshoot if there is no water in the pan, but then if I add water the temp can't jump passed. 225 degrees.... Plz help me :)

Vince RnQ
07-21-2014, 08:08 PM
Please tell me what kind of fuel you are using (charcoal or lump) and how you are building your fire (Minion Method, etc.).

Don't worry, we'll get you squared away.

NOHENS
07-21-2014, 08:10 PM
I never use water in mine? Jus foil wrap it. Catch the temp on the way up and shut the vents starting about 50 degrees under your target temp. It should cruise for good once you get it dialed in. If its a new one it takes some cooks to gunk up the leaks and then your set.

Jesseroberge
07-21-2014, 08:18 PM
I am using the 2 chimney unlit for one chimney lit charcoal, I have to say that I have not tried the minion method since I stopped using water in the pan...

I have to say that even thow I catch the temp going up, I still have ALL bottom vents closed and my ATC connected to the bottom with top vent 100% open to get a clean draft...

Maby minion method would be less aggressive than scattering all the chimney of lit coals over the top of the unlit ones

grantw
07-21-2014, 08:31 PM
too much lit, unless you are shooting for 300, i use like a 1/4 bucket max on top of unlit. Also your atc does it have a damper on it? if so you may need to close it down. If you want to use a full bucket flip it over and fill the lower part of the bucket, thats a nice amount of coals for lower temp cooks

Jesseroberge
07-21-2014, 08:50 PM
too much lit, unless you are shooting for 300, i use like a 1/4 bucket max on top of unlit. Also your atc does it have a damper on it? if so you may need to close it down. If you want to use a full bucket flip it over and fill the lower part of the bucket, thats a nice amount of coals for lower temp cooks

If I use less lit coals in my chimney do you use the minion method or standard throw over unlit method ?

grantw
07-21-2014, 08:55 PM
Put your unlit in the bottom, then the lit goes on top, but not alot of lit, as you now know a bucket of lit will run your wsm at 300. You dont need to get fancy at making hole or whatever to put lit in, just put it evenly on top

Ron_L
07-21-2014, 08:59 PM
I always use the minion method in my WSMs. Fill the ring, leaving a depression in the middle and add 10-12 lit briquettes. I wouldn't engage the draft controller until you are close to your target temp, but I've never used one on my WSMs.

grantw
07-21-2014, 09:04 PM
When i pack my ring right up, i do that then take 15-20 out and light them, that way it dont overflow and it doesnt touch the bottom of the pan

Bebe
07-21-2014, 09:21 PM
you can drop a 12" clay saucer, (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Norcal-Pottery-12-25-in-Terra-Cotta-Saucer-100043043/100153493) wrapped in foil, inside the bowl...
or replace the bowl all together with an 14" clay saucer.

Happy Hapgood
07-21-2014, 10:23 PM
To the OP. Dude. Here's the gig. I too have a 18.5 WSM. If you have a 2009 WSM or later with the large water pan fill it to within two inches from the top. I do temps for a living and it never ceases to amaze me why water or not in the pan is such a big deal.

Here's how it works. There is no such thing as cold. Only the absence of heat. 1* Kelvin is -476*F. This is the point where only a small trace of heat remains in the atmosphere. Heat energy cannot be added. It can only be moved.

Water boils at 212*F @ sea level. Water boils at 194*F one mile above sea level as in Denver, Colorado.

Knowing these two facts let's consider the Mighty WSM. The WSM is an uninsulated smoker. This means it is vulnerable to three things in this order.

1. Wind
2. Outdoor Air Temperature
3. Direct Sunlight.

The point here being that external influences affect it more than internal ones do. The wind removes heat at a higher rate than temp. OAT comes in second. Direct Sunlight will add heat.

Water in the pan provides a constant. Fuel below hits the water pan which eventually boils. This is not added heat but a buffer. The remaining hot gases (and wood smoke) travel around the edges of the WP raising the temp at grill level.

If you go with an empty foil wrapped WP, one filled with sand or a flowerpot saucer, or a foil wrapped brick etc., the substrate will always assume the temp of the fire down below. Water on the other hand will boil and maintain a relatively consistent temp at grill level.

I've watched this argument go on for years now. Looking at folks and the hundreds of locations they live, on average it's the ones that live in colder climes want more heat and the ones further South want less heat. Here is the magic of the water pan.

Sorry for the ramble but it's really easy.

THoey1963
07-21-2014, 11:15 PM
No water in the pan, just a saucer. Start with a full load of KBB charcoal, use flame thrower to light the coals in the center, put her all back together and let her start coming to temp. Catch her when she gets to 30* from my target temp. Mine runs a stable 280*ish with top vent open, two bottom vents closed and the other half way closed. Haven't tried to run much lower once I learned that the food cooks faster and just as good at 280* as it does at 225*.

I sometimes have an issue running higher temps for chicken, but I have recently been hitting high 300*'s and even a 400* once.

shirknwrk
07-22-2014, 07:44 AM
When using a Guru/Stoker/whatever, close the top vent most of the way to prevent natural "drafting" ... otherwise the temp can continue to rise even if the fan is not running. On my Big Green Egg, I only open the top vent a sliver... The WSM is a different animal... it may need a little more exhaust open but the principle is the same. An automatic temperature controller can only control temperature if it is the only significant source of air to the fire.
On the Guru, you want to close the slide on the intake to 1/4 or 1/2 (max) to minimize the amount of air sucked through due to natural convection. Some other ATC's have a flap to prevent drafting.

Fwismoker
07-22-2014, 07:56 AM
Don't worry so much about a ATC and learn to control your smoker with air intakes. If i can keep steady temps with my food 12" over lump charcoal with no diffuser then you can in your WSM.

DaveAlvarado
07-22-2014, 08:13 AM
Water ain't magic.

You can hit 300 with water in the pan if you try hard enough.

You can hit 225 with no water in the pan real easy.

The problem isn't the water, it's that you left your dampers too open for too long and your temps shot up. If you had just closed them down and waited a bit, your temps would have dropped. A WSM is all about the air control.

charrederhead
07-22-2014, 08:46 AM
A full lit chimney is overkill, unless you're shooting for 350ish.

For 250ish, I fill the ring w/ lump and hit it in the center w/ the weed burner for about 30 seconds. I leave the bottom section uncovered (unless it's a windy day) for about 10 mins, then assemble the unit w/ all vents wide open.

When it gets to around 220, I close 2 vents all the way and leave the 3rd about 1/8th open.

This is the general method I use. Minor adjustments may be necessary. :wink:

Cayman1
07-22-2014, 01:20 PM
There are many methods to accomplish the same result. You had way too many lit pieces of charcoal to start it. We cook at 275 and start with 13 lit coals spread fairly evenly over the unlit. Try the clay flower pot base in the pan. It really helps to keep temp steady and any spikes from opening the cooker will be less and the WSM will recover to the set temp quicker. Water also works, it's just such a mess to clean up.

THoey1963
07-22-2014, 02:04 PM
When using a Guru/Stoker/whatever, close the top vent most of the way to prevent natural "drafting" ... otherwise the temp can continue to rise even if the fan is not running. On my Big Green Egg, I only open the top vent a sliver... The WSM is a different animal... it may need a little more exhaust open but the principle is the same. An automatic temperature controller can only control temperature if it is the only significant source of air to the fire.
On the Guru, you want to close the slide on the intake to 1/4 or 1/2 (max) to minimize the amount of air sucked through due to natural convection. Some other ATC's have a flap to prevent drafting.

I know this gets into "personal opinion", but the directions and videos I have seen for my Pitmaster IQ 120 say to have the top vent all the way open. When I hook mine up (long cooks only), I have the top vent open, All lower vents open until I get the fire established. Once established, I close the other bottom vents and let the IQ bring it up to temp. There is usually a little over shoot, but by the time I see TBS, I am usually back to temp.