Water VS Sand

[ddog27]

Ok I know that this has probably been discussed several times. My primary smoker is a WSM. When I use my WSM I put water in the water pan. I have read where many others use sand in the water pan. Can you tell me what the advantages are to using sand in your water pan? Does your meat come out moist without the steam from the water? Please let me know all of the pros and cons of sand verses water. Thanks!

[tommykendall]

Here we go again... happy reading...

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12022&highlight=sand

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10817&highlight=sand

And there's probably a whole lot more imbedded in other threads.

[big brother smoke]

Here we go again... happy reading...

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12022&highlight=sand

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10817&highlight=sand

And there's probably a whole lot more imbedded in other threads.

I never saw those threads, they are quite entertaining!:tongue:

[kcquer]

Does your meat come out moist without the steam

Although there may be some marginal benefit to a moister cooking environment, that is not the purpose of the water. The water serves as a thermal buffer to provide indirect cooking temps in a confined space.
The same effect can be had with sand or nothing at all in the "water" pan.

Moist Q comes from proper preparation and not overcooking. It does not come from steam from a waterpan.

Just trying to save you from developing an erroneous preconcieved notion about the effect of moisture in the cooking environment.

[BigAl]

If the old master pit builders and Qer's wanted to use sand, it would be called a "sand" pan.

[The_Kapn]

If the old master pit builders and Qer's wanted to use sand, it would be called a "sand" pan.

Welcome back (again) Big Guy--been missing you.

I can't remember--do you have a WSM??
If so, ever test it with sand or just nothing in the pan?
Just curious.

TIM

[BigAl]

Welcome back (again) Big Guy--been missing you.

I can't remember--do you have a WSM??
If so, ever test it with sand or just nothing in the pan?
Just curious.

TIM

No WSM, and since the air is very dry here, I need as much moisture as I can get, for Briskets here, I have used an extra water pan right on top (on grates) of the fire basket.

[The_Kapn]

No WSM, and since the air is very dry here, I need as much moisture as I can get, for Briskets here, I have used an extra water pan right on top (on grates) of the fire basket.

Al--thanks. That puts your statement into context.

Down here in the "flatlands", I have cooked on WSM with water, sand, and dry.
Dry yields a quality product with lots of moisture and a pleasing bark.
I go only by results, and since I get great results with a dry pan, that is the way I cook.
The ease of cleanup etc is just a bonus. I would be glad to clean up the mess if it added anything to the end product.

On a side note--I do not use a pan of any type in the Dera. Exact same reason as above. Excellent moist product and that is what I am after.

All this may change in the rarified atmosphere at 7000 ft or so where you live, for sure :lol:

TIM

ps- How's your wood supply???? :lol:

[Bigmista]

No water for me either. Don't use it in the barrel or the chargriller and mine comes out moist. Must be the injection...

[Bill-Chicago]

Not to beat a dead horse, but, wow, I'm trying to recollect a few technical threads, by Mark and others, that went along the lines of:

Water, as a heat sink, can only become a heat sink under the meat to 212*. Anything more is burned off in the form of steam, and therefore the "heat sink" remains approx. 212*

Sand, on the other hand, can heat to much higher temperatures, therefore the "heat sink" when using sand can result in a much higher heat under your meat.

I cannot pinpoint the numerous threads on this, but I know I read it here

[parrothead]

Anybody ever try kitty litter?

[rookiedad]

empty pan, foiled for clean up.

phil

[Bill-Chicago]

Anybody ever try kitty litter?

Here's the real definitive answer on water pan contents, per the archives:

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6999&highlight=water+pan+contents

[billm]

sand in the wsm..although i am gonna try that empty pan covered with foil just to see..im all about eliminating steps..
i really dont think water adds anything to the meat or contributes to a moister end product
also, all this pouring of juices, booze and stuff in the pan dont add a thing to the end product either IMO

[Heimelswine]

sand in the wsm..although i am gonna try that empty pan covered with foil just to see..im all about eliminating steps..
i really dont think water adds anything to the meat or contributes to a moister end product
also, all this pouring of juices, booze and stuff in the pan dont add a thing to the end product either IMO

I agree with Billm. I made enough mods to my Pro that the original water pan I installed had to be elimanted. I had tried water, w/spices, & w/beer. I'm at 5000' in high desert. I don't think I ever noticed a difference between water, no water. It's nice not having to maintain, and later clean the water pan out.

[Brauma]

Every time I open my Dera door I see steam coming off the water. Its bound to help with moisture in the chamber. I only put sand in my water pan when Im smoking my garlic. I dont want to add any moisture to the garlic before I dehydrate it.

[Mark]

Not to beat a dead horse, but, wow, I'm trying to recollect a few technical threads, by Mark and others, that went along the lines of:

Bill beats dead horses
Pass it on.

Actually, this was the technical thread:
Why NB, Weber, etc. call it a water pan
http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7261&highlight=call+water+pan

[Smokin Okole]

i was gonna say something funny and then i read the kitty litter post.

i can't remember what i was going to say anymore

[ckkphoto]

Here's da deal. Water will boil away faster as the heat rises helping to control temp spikes. This actually works better in the fire box than the smoke chamber, because salt and grease falling into the water will raise the boiling point of the water higher than the protective benefit.
Sand on the other hand will heat as high as you heat the smoker. The benefit to sand in stabilizing temps is when you forgot to add a log in time. This is why big smokers have a ceramic firebox. Heat will be radiating from the sand keeping the temp from crashing in the smoke box. There might be summer/winter concept here: sand in winter, water in (TEXAS) summer.

[billm]

Every time I open my Dera door I see steam coming off the water. Its bound to help with moisture in the chamber. I only put sand in my water pan when Im smoking my garlic. I dont want to add any moisture to the garlic before I dehydrate it.

thats my point
not sure why you would want or need all that moisture either...

[Mark]

Here's the real deal. Do whatever floats yur boat. Just use the search tool before asking this question again.

[kcquer]

I take a look at the names of those that have posted that they don't use water (in this thread and others) and I consider their knowledge and experience. I firmly believe that if there was any tangible impovement in the finished product using water, more than a couple of those cooks would say water was better and would never cook with out it. I have cookers with and without water, and I have used the BSKD with and without water, a water pan may simplify fire control, and based on that, I recommend using water to beginners.
I also make try to make sure that they don't have the mistaken idea that it makes the meat moister, as it seems once you get that idea in your head that it's impossible to change no matter how wrong it is or what evidence is presented to the contrary.

[kcquer]

We should merge all the water/sand threads together and have the real Never Ending Story thread:wink: :mrgreen:

[bbqinNC]

Whether the water pan adds anything to the cook or not, I use Apple juice in mine just because it smells so good when it is cooking (boiling).

[racer_81]

Of course I cannot stay on the sidelines on this one.

Water is mostly hydrogen.

Sand is mostly silicon.

Pamela Anderson's hooters are mostly silicon.

Hydrogen -> Hindenberg disaster.

You gotta prefer hooters over zeppelin wreckage.

Stable, non-boiling, inert (yet flexible enough to put the fun in funbags) sand. It's the American way to go.

[Wayne]

Liquid water can only be heated to 212 degrees. If more heat is applied the water will convert to water vapor but will remain at about 212 degrees. If the vapor gets below 212 it can condense back to a liquid. In a Bandera most of the vapor probably goes right out the chimney. The temperature of steam (not vapor but steam) can be above 212 but that requires the water and vapor to be in a confined space, like inside a pressure cooker. Most pressure cookers will only hold a pressure of 15 pounds and that allows the steam to get to 250 degrees.

Water takes a long time to heat up and will hold its temperature longer than sand. Sand heats up quick and cools off fast. Quick heating and cooling is not what you want in your BBQ pit because it causes large temperature fluctuations. In a BBQ pit water will hold its temperature longer and not allow the large fluctuations. It also cannot get hotter than 212 which also helps prevent large fluctuations in temperature. When the meat juice drips into the water it contains both oil (fat) and water, but it is mostly water. The dripping water is always at 212 or lower because it is still a liquid. If the meats water gets over 212 degrees it will turn to vapor and head straight for the chimney and the meat will dry out. This is what happens to the meat that turns to a nice crust when it is cooked in a BBQ pit. The water that drips off of the meat will mix with the water in the pan and will still have a boiling temp of 212. The oil that falls in the pan does not mix well with water so I doubt that it has much effect on the waters boiling point. You just wind up with a pan that contains two different liquids that have different boiling points.

I have cooked with and without water in a pan and have not notice too much difference in the moisture content of the meat. I do see the temperature staying more constant when I use a water pan. I even use a water pan in my horizontal NBBD near the opening of the fire box and it helps to keep the temperature constant. I have put fruit, fruit juice, onions and spices in the pan and have not noticed much difference in the taste of the meat, so now I just leave the pan filled with water. If anybody gets good results with sand then that is fine. They have developed their process and if their meat is good then who cares what they used in the pan. Back in '85 I spent three weeks living in a tent on the Sahara, and I am here to tell you that I preferred water to sand back then and I still think that way today. :tongue:

[FatDaddy]

:mrgreen:Water????? i usually go through at least a case of beer during a cook..:mrgreen:

[jt]

Dammit, I really like Racer's explanation!

And I agree (for the 18 millionth time) with KC - look at the names associated with sand or nada - I've got to respect those opinions. I've smoked with water or nada and had the same end result. Someday I'll try sand but that means I've got to go get some. All the stuff around home has been visited by the cats.

[Q_Egg]

ckkphoto .... your comment got my attention .... ceramic cokers are 'sand' albeit very compressed, so are firebricks. Both add thermal mass which seems to be a benefit for long cooks.

Therefore, I don't see this as an "either/or" question. For long cooks I always want the thermal mass. The question of a pan with various fluids is a separate issue.

Intersting though, that wth all the thermal mass of the ceramic cooker, and surely all of the heavy-duty steel cookers, there does seem to be some effect from adding additional mass below the product.

[ckkphoto]

When the meat juice drips into the water it contains both oil (fat) and water, but it is mostly water. The oil that falls in the pan does not mix well with water so I doubt that it has much effect on the waters boiling point. You just wind up with a pan that contains two different liquids that have different boiling points.




Mostly right, however the SALT and RUBS can have a considerable effect on the boiling point of the water in the water pan, as any solute added would. Sugar water (saturated) boils at approx 300 deg.

[Mark]

I have the ultimate solution. Depleted uranium (DU). It's 1.7 times denser than lead.

[Q_Egg]

I have the ultimate solution. Depleted uranium (DU). It's 1.7 times denser than lead.

I'm Ok with this! ... multiple glowing sources in the chamber .....gimme a source link.

Hope they have free shipping!