Bad chicken or bad judging?

[EverettBBQ]

We just finished a KCBBQS competition this weekend.
Got our score card and was floored by our chicken score. :doh:
We got a 154.2744 :confused:
One judge gave us 5's for taste and tenderness :cry:
Started to understand what went wrong.
We average a 170 for our chicken.
The chicken this weekend was as good as what we had turned in at past events.
We stated to look at the place other teams got with this same table..

54 Teams

Chick Ribs Pork Brisket
1 14 28 27 7
2 39 32 31 21
3 42 41 33 25
4 48 48 34 34
5 49 50 47 45
6 53 54 51 49

AVE 41 42 37 30

Would you consider this table as trained and qualified judges?
Should KCBBQS give these judges feedback?
Where was the table captan?
Has this ever happened to you?

We are convinced to keep on track with our chicken:mod:
We will not be changing our method or taste profile.

Sorry for the drama:drama:
Just needed to get some therapy from my brethren :caked:

[sitnfat]

Saw it a couple weeks ago. The table of death. I think 13th was the highest anyone came off that table. And it was top notch people landing on it.

[Jason TQ]

We finally hit a table of death this year and after probably being as upset as you are got over it (kind of :becky:) and chalked it up to "it eventually happens to everyone". We over analyzed it to death, but realize there isn't much that can be done.

KCBScore is tracking judges scores, but it won't be actionable until they get a large data set. Yeah the table captain could have suggested for them to fill out comment cards, which I'm guessing you didn't get. What were your scores? 5 to me says you need the comment cards to see why they thought it was awful, but most judges will agree that 6-7's don't necessitate comment cards since that is average and above average. So if you got 6-7's the table captain might not have thought much was off.

[EverettBBQ]

We finally hit a table of death this year and after probably being as upset as you are got over it (kind of :becky:) and chalked it up to "it eventually happens to everyone". We over analyzed it to death, but realize there isn't much that can be done.

KCBScore is tracking judges scores, but it won't be actionable until they get a large data set. Yeah the table captain could have suggested for them to fill out comment cards, which I'm guessing you didn't get. What were your scores? 5 to me says you need the comment cards to see why they thought it was awful, but most judges will agree that 6-7's don't necessitate comment cards since that is average and above average. So if you got 6-7's the table captain might not have thought much was off.

Our scores

888
887
855
777
988
887

Not one comment card:drama:

We have gotten all 9 in appearance many times.
I think the 855 judge needed coaching
The 777 judge did not know what to do

Any comments from judges:grin:

I know there is always the possibility that you get the table of death, but it rally stings when it happens to you:wacko::sad:

Thanks for your comments:wink:

[Lake Dogs]

I'm not defending the judge so much as I'm explaining why sometimes the score is accurate. Particularly chicken, but to some degree ribs too, different pieces can have completely different characteristics of tenderness and taste. It starts with the diet of the animal it was taken from. Perhaps this one piece came from a peculiar bird... If the chicken was enhanced, perhaps this one piece either missed most of it, or perhaps it got a heavier than normal dose. If there was skin, perhaps this skin wasnt quite as bite through as the others... If you're choosing a rub or sauce with some bite to it, perhaps it got a little more than the others...

Anyway, try as best you can to not read too much into it. You're right; a comment card would've REALLY helped and IMHO should've been required in this situation.

Best of luck in the future.

[Jason TQ]

Our scores

888
887
855
777
988
887

Not one comment card:drama:

We have gotten all 9 in appearance many times.
I think the 855 judge needed coaching
The 777 judge did not know what to do

Any comments from judges:grin:

I know there is always the possibility that you get the table of death, but it rally stings when it happens to you:wacko::sad:

Thanks for your comments:wink:

The 855 is the only one I'd hope to get a comment card on. All the other scores are about the same. But since you can't bite into each piece of chicken to taste one piece can definitely cook weird. I've had more scores like this in chicken. After our chicken is turned in I bite into each remaining piece to see how they all stack up. Many times 1 or 2 will not be as juicy as the others.

If you post the box pic you can get some good feedback here on appearance. Something could have been off.

[ewchippe]

I kind of had a different experience with the table of death this weekend. I took 9th in ribs at a table where 9th was the best in any category. The next closest was a 16th place. They also had the bottom 3 in brisket. Its kind of cool and kind of frustrating at the same time. I wonder how much better I could have been at a different table.

[Podge]

I got 2 judges who gave me 999 on pork.. one judge gave me a comment card that said they wanted to spit it out.

[Wampus]

I got 2 judges who gave me 999 on pork.. one judge gave me a comment card that said they wanted to spit it out.

THAT makes no sense at all.


You can almost understand something like that on chicken, since there are individual pieces that came off of individual birds and all (unless you're turning in pulled of course), but for something like pork or brisket, that kind of thing always confuses the heck out of me. :tsk:

[Ron_L]

Our scores

888
887
855
777
988
887


Here's my take on the scores...

I'm NOT saying you didn't hit a bad table or a rogue judge, but, every piece of chicken is unique. It is entirely possible that the piece that judge number 3 grabbed was a bad piece. Again, I'm not saying that it was a bad piece, but it is possible.

Unless there is a history of that judge scoring out of line, we just don't know where the problem was.

[EMTTLC]

Yes, every piece of chicken is different, but sometimes you just gotta wonder. I just got a 998, 998, 987, 656, 879, 877 on chicken after two back to back 3rd place calls in chicken. Strange scores. Judge 4 was low score on 19 of the 24 meats scored. I'm ready for kcbs to start using the data they have.

[Gowan]

If you are happy with your product, never change it based on the result of a single contest. Ever.

There is at least one flyer in every box of cartridges.

[302smoke]

I think judges should be given refresher courses once a year. Giving out a 5 to me means the chicken was BAD and I don't think any pro teams turn in bad samples. I just hope judges understand how bad a 5 score is. Just my .02 cents

[rob g]

Our scores

888
887
855
777
988
887

Not one comment card:drama:

We have gotten all 9 in appearance many times.
I think the 855 judge needed coaching
The 777 judge did not know what to do

Any comments from judges:grin:


I am new to judging KCBS this year but have judged a number of competitions here in Canada last year. I think some judges give higher scores than the product rates. The scorecard says a 7 is "above average". I don't see that as a bad thing. Different judges have different opinions on what "average" is.

At my first competition I had a couple of rib samples that were overcooked so most of the meat on one side came away with my bite. I rated that a 5. I did fill out a comment card to let the team know why. The issue I seen was the discussion that followed after the cards were in. I asked one of the experienced judges what they would have done. They told me they had the same condition and they gave it a 7. Their reasoning was that a 7 would knock the team out of the running anyway. I don't feel that properly reflected the sample and the score was being given to appease the team. The team is not getting the feedback they need to improve their product.

The comment cards are another issue. Here in Canada we ask the judges to make a comment on their scorecards every time a certain threshold isn't reached in any given category. We then give the scorecards back to the teams after the awards ceremonies so they can see how they did and what they need to improve for next time. At the KCBS event I judged the judges had to ask for a comment card when needed. They were told not to let the comment cards slow down the judging process or they may be replaced. So my impression was the comment cards were there but not encouraged.

[billygbob]

I got 2 judges who gave me 999 on pork.. one judge gave me a comment card that said they wanted to spit it out.

At a 2013 contest I gave 3's on pork taste and tenderness while everybody else gave 8's and 9's. After score cards were in several of us compared what was left on our plates and all agreed I had some really bad pulled pork (mushy and grainy with a nasty, metallic taste). The other plates had nice samples (based on what was left on plates). What happened? I have no clue; I can speculate about injections and/or bad trimming and/or bad box building. But in the end I had really bad pork on my plate.... (Yes. I completed a comment card - without anything snarky about spitting it out.) So it can happen.

[jcog44]

Two years ago our table had a pork entry, with the first 3 judges getting meat that was ok and the last three of us had rotten samples (smelled bad and came back out of the mouth faster than it went in). We knew there would be questions, and called over the rep who examined the bad samples and agreed. After that, none of these stories surprise me. If a box can be half good and half rotten, another can surely have one poor sample out of 6.

[jcog44]

Regarding the score of Average.....the rules don't define average, and without limits it extends to be average in the entire universe of BBQ, and does NOT mean average competition BBQ. To me a 6 is what you would expect from an ok backyard cook, or worse.

[Mikeinctown]

Two years ago our table had a pork entry, with the first 3 judges getting meat that was ok and the last three of us had rotten samples (smelled bad and came back out of the mouth faster than it went in). We knew there would be questions, and called over the rep who examined the bad samples and agreed. After that, none of these stories surprise me. If a box can be half good and half rotten, another can surely have one poor sample out of 6.

That sounds absolutely nasty.

However, given the scores for all meats, it seems that it wasn't just one slice or bone. One judge rated every category in total as almost the worst or the of the contest, and a second judge wasn't so far behind.

What are the odds that two judges get such bad product from so many different teams in every single category as compared to everyone else?

In looking at another contest web page that had all the judged listed that were signed up, I noticed that there were an overwhelming number of husband and wife teams. At contests are these people typically broken up so they are not at the same table? If not, then why not? Logic would assume that they have both gained a similar taste for foods over time.

[MikeJ65]

That sounds absolutely nasty.


In looking at another contest web page that had all the judged listed that were signed up, I noticed that there were an overwhelming number of husband and wife teams. At contests are these people typically broken up so they are not at the same table? If not, then why not? Logic would assume that they have both gained a similar taste for foods over time.

In KCBS the husband/wife teams are split up.

[bbq.tom]

I think judges should be given refresher courses once a year. Giving out a 5 to me means the chicken was BAD and I don't think any pro teams turn in bad samples. I just hope judges understand how bad a 5 score is. Just my .02 cents

I totally agree that there needs to be refresher courses for judges.

The biggest problem that I see with inconsistent judging is that there is NO STANDARD being enforced by KCBS on judging. As was mentioned in another thread - there are at least four different ways of judgiing that have been taught over the past 10 years in CBJ class:
start at 9 and deduct as needed
start at 6 and adjust up or down as needed
start at 7 and adjust up or down as needed
give the score that the description represents (currently being taught).

The other "problem" is that there are judges that only use 7-8-9, meaning that no matter how bad the entry is the lowest score that judge will give is a 7. Other judges are using the whole scope of scoring 2-9, meaing that for the same entry it might only score a 3. Until KCBS brings these schools of thought into one, or utilizes the KCBScore system to "handicap" or "average score" the judges, there will always be the TOD and TOA.

A "5" is "Below Average", and while it is a "bad" score in your mind and will most likely blow any chance for GC or RGC, it is NOT necessarily a "bad" score in some judge's minds = "bad" is a "3"!

[Burnt at Both Endz]

I think judges should be given refresher courses once a year. Giving out a 5 to me means the chicken was BAD and I don't think any pro teams turn in bad samples. I just hope judges understand how bad a 5 score is. Just my .02 cents

I've had Bloody chicken before, not pink, bloody....IMHO, that's BAD chicken.:shock:

I've had brisket that was next to impossible to pull apart....IMHO, that's Bad brisket.:shocked:

I've had ribs that the meat came off the bone picking it up out of the box....IMHO, that's BAD ribs....:shock:

I've had samples that had soooo much cayenne pepper on them that parsley wouldn't even clear the palate.


Now the question is, do you give those product poor scores(3,4), or do you just give them a 5 or 6 and try not to embarrass a cook? Those scores will already take them out of any chance of winning.

[rob g]

Now the question is, do you give those product poor scores(3,4), or do you just give them a 5 or 6 and try not to embarrass a cook? Those scores will already take them out of any chance of winning.

My opinion, as a judge, I should be giving the sample the score it deserves and not worry about the feelings of the team but to be consistent the whole day. It is only fair to the other teams. If I give a bad score I certainly want to fill out a comment card to explain why. Otherwise the team has no idea why they are losing points and have no way to correct it. The teams have a difficult task trying to hit the sweet spot for 6 judges on a table.

I am one of the judges that starts at 6 or 7 and works in either direction. At the same time after judging a number of competitions my standard of "average" has changed. When I first started judging almost everything tasted great and was judged accordingly. A lot of that meat has moved to average because I see it all of the time. If you want a high score you need to serve me meat I will guard like a dog.

I think the KCBS judging course was little lax in defining what makes a great sample of a particular meat vs an average sample. I agree that the training for the judges needs to drive a more consistent standard to make it easier for the teams to find the sweet spot. Maybe it should be necessary for judges to go thru a refresher course every so often so the KCBS can try to get some uniformity.

[Kave Dweller]

[QUOTE=

I've had ribs that the meat came off the bone picking it up out of the box....IMHO, that's BAD ribs....:shock:

[/QUOTE]

I have a problem with this. You had an over done rib, not a bad rib. It could have still tasted great and looked great, the cook should have been hit on the tenderness, but 4/7th's of the score is the taste and 1/7th the appearance. the fact it fell of the bone should have only impacted the tenderness score.

[Burnt at Both Endz]

I have a problem with this. You had an over done rib, not a bad rib. It could have still tasted great and looked great, the cook should have been hit on the tenderness, but 4/7th's of the score is the taste and 1/7th the appearance. the fact it fell of the bone should have only impacted the tenderness score.

An over cooked rib will not be juicy like a proper cooked rib, so it will effect the taste of this judges palate, sorry!

[jcog44]

Again, the rules don't say that the scoring ranges apply to competition bbq. They are purposely without limits so as to include the entire world of bbq. This was confirmed by conversations with several Reps and KSBS Board Members. Looking at the entire world of bbq, it seems that average would be somewhere around an ok backyard cook. Typical competition bbq is certainly much better than average when compared to everything else, which would put average competition bbq around at 7. Unfortunately, we also get entries that are not up to competition quality either due to ability, or something went wrong. Also notice that 9 doesn't say perfect. It says excellent.

[EverettBBQ]

First of all, thanks for all of the thoughts and comments!
This is what makes this site so great:mod:

Someone asked for a photo.
The 6 thighs that we sampled all had perfect bite through skin!


http://i1348.photobucket.com/albums/p729/Everettku/a7f4af314a37beb26b2ce89c15589090_zps0a10ffdf.jpg

[EverettBBQ]

Please look at the following for this table.
There were 54 teams

For Chicken the following is the place the 6 teams took from this table of judges.
1 14
2 39
3 42
4 48
5 49
6 53
AVE 41

So maybe 5 out of the six teams were below the average:cool:

Now the ribs, six new teams:blah:
1 28
2 32
3 41
4 48
5 50
6 54
AVE 42
Ok, these teams were worse than the chicken (we placed 4th in ribs:tape:)

How about pork? Same table of judges! Different teams!
1 27
2 31
3 33
4 34
5 47
6 51
AVE 37

Only one team again at or above 27th, the mid point for 54 teams

Now for brisket

1 7
2 21
3 25
4 34
5. 45
6 49
AVE. 30

Very nice, 3 teams above the mid point of 27:doh:

I am not blaming the judges.
But is evident that the judges are not using the same criteria.:drama:

I have been on both sides of the table, as a judge or a cook..
As a cook I get a ton of information on the scoring. ( just look at the above data):grin:

When I judge, I get no feedback.
I have no idea what my scores were compared to my fellow judges..

So.......
Here is my point.......judges have to get data on their scores as compared to their table and the other tables..

As a team I take home lots of data..
As a judge I go home with NO feedback:sad:

KCBS......give judges feedback :mod:

[ewchippe]

Everett, I just realized we were at the same contest. I noticed there were a couple tables that were really high scores and a couple tables that were really low scores. Its what we're going to get at every contest. Until they analyze the judges and set up the tables based on previous scores (which would be next to impossible) its what we have to expect. I like getting all the table detail with the new score sheets, but at times I think it makes us overanalyze it.

[drbbq]

We all know the 855 score was tossed out. IMO that is the system working. Everyone else gave you 7-8-9 and you finished poorly. Doesn't anyone see a problem with the scores all being so high? What will we re-train the judges to do? Only use 8 and 9? Then all 8s will be the death score? We might as well just score our own entries.

I'm not saying you didn't get screwed, you did and it's been that way forever. It just wasn't on the printout. But the 3 (or 2) point system isn't ever going to solve the problem.

[MikeJ65]

Looking at that table's scores, they had a median of 159.4. That's basically 8's across the board for their 'middle of the road' box. The regional average here is about a 643, so they were just a point and change under the regional average. In addition, the GC (with a 700), and the 3rd place team both crossed this table. Based on all of this, I would have trouble finding fault with this table of judges other than maybe the 855 judge. He/she might have gotten a bad bite or might be a very low scoring judge. If he/she was handing out 5's to everyone there is probably an issue with that one judge.

Now, throw them into a contest with a couple of tables that are handing out 9's to everyone and they are going to have more than their share of lower half entries. Is that their fault or the fault of the other tables? I don't doubt that you had better than 49th best chicken, but it was 5th at the table, so it probably wasn't 170's material.

BTW, what's with the two Park Avenue Pork listings on the score sheet? That always makes be wonder.

[Podge]

All I know is, is when a judge gave me a comment card pork that said they wanted to spit it out, and gave me a 7 in taste anyway, is screwed up... should've been a 2 or 3.

[Candy Sue]

Once upon a time last year, my BR scores were
8 6 7
5 4 4
7 7 6
7 6 7
7 6 5
7 7 7
Needless to say, I was last on the table and with a score of 130.2400 and nearly last at the contest. Frankly, I was ashamed to turn it in. It tasted like liver and it truly deserved the 544 score or lower. I was more concerned about the judges giving it a higher score, honestly. It deserved DAL! Not 518/531, the 13 teams below me must have been really, really bad.

This was at the open in the Royal last year and in spite of statistical improbability, I landed on that same table twice in chicken and brisket. Chicken was 456/535. Both categories judge 2 was toss out as the lowest score.

[bbq.tom]

All I know is, is when a judge gave me a comment card pork that said they wanted to spit it out, and gave me a 7 in taste anyway, is screwed up... should've been a 2 or 3.

Classic observation of a judge that only gives 7-8-9, with a 7 as "bad".
These judges skew the TOD/TOA as much as a "low scoring judge".

[EMTTLC]

Judges should get the same feedback as the teams are now getting. I think I'm a pretty good judge, but I base that on how much I've judged and how much I've cooked. However, I could be the low guy whos score is thrown out every time. I have no way of knowing. I table captained with a master judge at my table with 43 contest who was consistantly 2-3 points below everyone else. As conversation ensued, I found that this person seemed to agree with the consensus of the table but was scoring lower than everyone else. I'm sure he left feeling he was a pretty good judge, I kinda disagree .

[peterz]

Judges should get the same feedback as the teams are now getting. I think I'm a pretty good judge, but I base that on how much I've judged and how much I've cooked. However, I could be the low guy whos score is thrown out every time. I have no way of knowing. I table captained with a master judge at my table with 43 contest who was consistantly 2-3 points below everyone else. As conversation ensued, I found that this person seemed to agree with the consensus of the table but was scoring lower than everyone else. I'm sure he left feeling he was a pretty good judge, I kinda disagree .

Yes, yes, yes.
Me as a judge can tell u that judges should get feedback . How alse are we to know how we doing ? KCBS should think about that !

[BoneDaddy's]

My opinion, as a judge, I should be giving the sample the score it deserves and not worry about the feelings of the team but to be consistent the whole day. It is only fair to the other teams. If I give a bad score I certainly want to fill out a comment card to explain why. Otherwise the team has no idea why they are losing points and have no way to correct it. The teams have a difficult task trying to hit the sweet spot for 6 judges on a table.

I am one of the judges that starts at 6 or 7 and works in either direction. At the same time after judging a number of competitions my standard of "average" has changed. When I first started judging almost everything tasted great and was judged accordingly. A lot of that meat has moved to average because I see it all of the time. If you want a high score you need to serve me meat I will guard like a dog.

I think the KCBS judging course was little lax in defining what makes a great sample of a particular meat vs an average sample. I agree that the training for the judges needs to drive a more consistent standard to make it easier for the teams to find the sweet spot. Maybe it should be necessary for judges to go thru a refresher course every so often so the KCBS can try to get some uniformity.

I have to disagree with your judging if this is true. If I eat a great steak at Del Frisco's three times in a month, does that mean that it is no longer a good steak on the 3rd visit. You are screwing the BBQ teams with your logic.

[djqualls]

I got 2 judges who gave me 999 on pork.. one judge gave me a comment card that said they wanted to spit it out.


Probably because they liked it so good they wanted to take it home in their cooler and have it again for supper!

[rob g]

I have to disagree with your judging if this is true. If I eat a great steak at Del Frisco's three times in a month, does that mean that it is no longer a good steak on the 3rd visit. You are screwing the BBQ teams with your logic.

Please explain your logic as I am trying to learn. I have tried to get people to tell me what is good bbq at the training course and they refuse to do so. I always get "it is up to you". I found the KCBS training even less informative about what makes good bbq. They didn't spend much time on what constitutes good texture in the meat samples or even what to look for in appearance. A lot of it was left to the individual. We discussed the samples a bit after we graded them but with the variation that can be found coming from 1 box it is hard to define average to good to excellent.

I don't feel that just because I am judging professional teams that everyone should get no less than a 7 due to the fact they are "pro". I have tasted a whole range of product while judging and good meat still gets a good score but if you want a 9 it better be some of the best I have tasted. My idea of average competition meat has changed from the first event I judged. When I took my first training course I was given slightly burnt ribs and they still tasted great to my palate at the time. Over the course of a number of competitions my palate and expectations have changed.

I don't fell I am screwing the teams but giving an honest grade for the meat put in front of me. Maybe some time should be spent looking at the judges that give a 7 as their low score just because it will knock a team down in score but not embarrass them. I feel if everyone started from the middle and worked both ways it gives the teams something to aspire to and rewards those that do turn in excellent product. Having a couple points separating an excellent box and a mediocre box isn't doing anyone any favors.

If I am out of line please educate me.

[Bourbon Barrel BBQ]

I don't feel that just because I am judging professional teams that everyone should get no less than a 7 due to the fact they are "pro". I have tasted a whole range of product while judging and good meat still gets a good score but if you want a 9 it better be some of the best I have tasted.

Just curious. How often do you hand out a 9?

[rob g]

Most of my nine's have been in appearance. At my first KCBS event a few weeks ago I probably scored about 8 - 9's. I had one box 9-9-8. A lot of the samples were in the 7 & 8 range with some going into the 5-6 range. If half a rib peels off with a bite then it gets a 5 for being overcooked.

[Uomograsso]

If you can quantify what "good BBQ" should taste like I will gladly judge all samples against that standard, but as the judges oath says, judging is both objective and subjective. The example I always give is salt. I was raised in a household where salt was never used due to my father having high blood pressure. I rarely if ever salt my food. Now take another judge who was raised in a household were salt was poured on food (I'm exagerating but you get the point). Now if we were to judge the same BBQ the other judge would give low scores to entries with little salt and high scores to entries with a lot of salt. I on the other hand would give low scores to entries with a lot of salt and higher scores to those with less salt. The same could be said for spicy versus non-spicy or sweet versus savory entries. I try to remember I have this bias when judging entries, but how are you going to retrain a judges palate that was developed over a lifetime.

I agrees that judges should be able to see what other judges on a table have scored. I also think that some judges never score lower than a 7 so that they won't appear to ge out of the norm or have to fill out a comment card. KCBScore has only been out for a short while and much more data needs to be collected before any relevant analysis can be done on the data. Looking at just one or two or even ten contests is just not large enough sample size to be meaningful.

[SmokieOkie]

What I have seen at the events I have judged is a group of prima donna judges who are cocky and act as if they possess some great skill set. .... I think all judges should be required to cook a few events. ... really cook, not just hang around and take out some trash for another a team as most cmj's do. Another thing. ... they should not be allowed to take the left overs home.... they seem more interested in filling their coolers than judging bbq. It just gripes me. .. never cooked an event in their life. . Probably don't even own a smoker. .. but yet they are so called judges! What they really want is a free lunch and something to snack on the next couple of days. ...

[ModelMaker]

What I have seen at the events I have judged is a group of prima donna judges who are cocky and act as if they possess some great skill set. .... I think all judges should be required to cook a few events. ... really cook, not just hang around and take out some trash for another a team as most cmj's do. Another thing. ... they should not be allowed to take the left overs home.... they seem more interested in filling their coolers than judging bbq. It just gripes me. .. never cooked an event in their life. . Probably don't even own a smoker. .. but yet they are so called judges! What they really want is a free lunch and something to snack on the next couple of days. ...


The same thing could be said of "cooks" that have the opinion that their offerings are always spot on and if they don't walk in every catagory complain about the obviously inadequate judges who only travel and give up their weekends just to sneak home some of that always excellent BBQ.
If I knew how to put that "dead horse" icon here ......, I would.
Ed

[bbq.tom]

What I have seen at the events I have judged is a group of prima donna judges who are cocky and act as if they possess some great skill set. .... I think all judges should be required to cook a few events. ... really cook, not just hang around and take out some trash for another a team as most cmj's do. Another thing. ... they should not be allowed to take the left overs home.... they seem more interested in filling their coolers than judging bbq. It just gripes me. .. never cooked an event in their life. . Probably don't even own a smoker. .. but yet they are so called judges! What they really want is a free lunch and something to snack on the next couple of days. ...

I've not judged in OK, but have in ten other states and Puerto Rico. Sounds like there might be a problem isolated there. MOST judges that I've run into and talked with are NOT just in it for a "free lunch and something to snack on the next couple of days". I will agree that there are a few out there that tarnish the image of all the rest of us, but that is a VERY SMALL percentage! AGAIN, MOST of the Master judges that I've met and talked with have also done more than "just hang around and take out the trash". MOst do own smokers and many have competed more than just once!

Your generalizations are indicative of a cook that truly doesn't know what goes on inside a judge's tent. To think that you are a judge with these opinions is disheartening.

[peterz]

What I have seen at the events I have judged is a group of prima donna judges who are cocky and act as if they possess some great skill set. .... I think all judges should be required to cook a few events. ... really cook, not just hang around and take out some trash for another a team as most cmj's do. Another thing. ... they should not be allowed to take the left overs home.... they seem more interested in filling their coolers than judging bbq. It just gripes me. .. never cooked an event in their life. . Probably don't even own a smoker. .. but yet they are so called judges! What they really want is a free lunch and something to snack on the next couple of days. ...


WOW really ? lets see........YOU must be one of the cooks that never wins so all you got is blame judges for your poor BBQing skills.

[Mikeinctown]

Guys, he said

What I have seen at the events I have judged

how do you get

YOU must be one of the cooks that never wins
and
Your generalizations are indicative of a cook that truly doesn't know what goes on inside a judge's tent.
:confused::confused::confused:

He related his experiencs as a JUDGE, not a cook.

[Burnt at Both Endz]

I'm not even gonna get into this, other than to say, lots of 700's given out in Oklahomia by those judges that goes for a takeout.:confused: