Danger Zone

[Fishin4bass723]

I have had a twinpak of boneless butts thawing since last Sunday night on the back porch tonight I took its temp and it was 46* wondering if it should still be good to smoke tomorrow?

[peeps]

Thawing for a week on the back porch? I would toss them! How do you know that this was the first time they were over 40F?

[Fishin4bass723]

It has been cold here and I have had them in a cooler to slow the thawing same as thawing in your fridge.

[Vision]

I would toss them but I don't understand why if they did develop a bug, why that bug isn't killed by cooking it to 200ish.

[smoke ninja]

Except your fridge ain't 46 degrees. Sorry for your loss.

[bigabyte]

That stuff is even more in the danger zone than this...

http://youtu.be/siwpn14IE7E

[Fwismoker]

Gotta throw them away....sorry to hear that. DO NOT cook them! Please don't even think about it.

[Fishin4bass723]

Ok I will not cook them.

[scrub puller]

Yair . . . okay I don't get this "danger zone" thing, can someone please explain. Is it the four hour thing that counts?

For many years in the bush we cut up sheep and stored them in a kerosene refrigerator that would have never got down to 46 degrees in the first place . . . often the legs and shoulders were in there for a week.

It was quite common for unfrozen meat orders from town to be wrapped in newspaper and sent out on a six hour run on the mail truck and then hung in a wet hessian coolsafe.

Can't ever remember anyone getting sick. My Mum had a sensitive nose as to when meat was "off" and even then it was often recovered with a good soak in some vinegar and made into a curry.

Not trying to be a smart ass, just saying how it was.

Cheers.

[Swine Spectator]

Above 40 degrees, bacterial growth occurs rapidly. The sodium level and pH are also important. Bacterial growth is an exponential function, so one grows into 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, etc.

The best read I have found on the subject is The Art of Making Fermented Sausages, by Marianski. He states that bacteria double every 38 hours at 32F, but increase to doubling every 30 minutes at 80F. He has a table showing that one bacteria grows into over 2 million in just 6 hours under ideal conditions.

Most bacteria are killed by the time the meat reaches 148 degree (a few stubborn ones last to ~170). However, some bacteria excrete toxins as they grow.

Back to scrub_puller's point - moisture and pH are huge factors in creating the right environment for bacteria. If they were hung in a fridge, the surface would dry and inhibit growth. Also, a soak in vinegar (an acid) would retard growth.

[Offthehook]

Yair . . . okay I don't get this "danger zone" thing, can someone please explain. Is it the four hour thing that counts?

For many years in the bush we cut up sheep and stored them in a kerosene refrigerator that would have never got down to 46 degrees in the first place . . . often the legs and shoulders were in there for a week.

It was quite common for unfrozen meat orders from town to be wrapped in newspaper and sent out on a six hour run on the mail truck and then hung in a wet hessian coolsafe.

Can't ever remember anyone getting sick. My Mum had a sensitive nose as to when meat was "off" and even then it was often recovered with a good soak in some vinegar and made into a curry.

Not trying to be a smart ass, just saying how it was.

Cheers.

I have heard of leaving meat out all night and eating it the next morning many times and being fine.

[smoke ninja]

Yair . . . okay I don't get this "danger zone" thing, can someone please explain. Is it the four hour thing that counts?

For many years in the bush we cut up sheep and stored them in a kerosene refrigerator that would have never got down to 46 degrees in the first place . . . often the legs and shoulders were in there for a week.

It was quite common for unfrozen meat orders from town to be wrapped in newspaper and sent out on a six hour run on the mail truck and then hung in a wet hessian coolsafe.

Can't ever remember anyone getting sick. My Mum had a sensitive nose as to when meat was "off" and even then it was often recovered with a good soak in some vinegar and made into a curry.

Not trying to be a smart ass, just saying how it was.

Cheers.

Here in America the government has rules for everything. The FDA even has rules for what bbq is.
It is not recommended to eat a rare steak or over easy eggs by government guidelines. We have rules for how many bug parts are allowed in snack food, in some parts of the world bugs are snack food. The food police will raid you if you sell raw milk or save seeds. These are crazy times.

[Mo-Dave]

Trim, season, cook and enjoy. But that is just me. If they smell ok and are not slick or slimy to the feel. Pork always has a smell when first opened up so rinse and then smell, you should be able to tell if they are bad by then.
Dave

[JONESY]

I can understand the thought process of leaving the meat in a cooler to thaw when it's bellow freezing outside, but during the day any sunlight that hits the cooler will warm the inside well above the freezing point. We have a cottage in northern Michigan, and in winter months we would put the beer in a cooler outside to save room in the fridge, during the day the day the beer would get warm, so we added snow and again during the day the snow in the cooler would melt while the snow the cooler sat on would not. Needless to say it was the sun, now the beer stays in the case in a snow bank. Pitch the pork, you don't what temps it was exposed to during the day. Just my two cents.

[scrub puller]

Yair . . . so okay folks, to follow up on the original post.

The man put out some pork to thaw and the ambient temps are such that it took several days to get up to 46F which is what, about 7.5C and the meat is considered unsafe to eat after cooking?

Is it because of the temperature or the time it took to get there?

Cheers.

[smoke ninja]

Like I said here in America we have rules. One rule is "danger zone". Meat between 40 and 140 is considered in this range(hence a rare steak in unsafe). After 4 hours in the danger zone and you meat turns into a pumkin.
A lot of old world pre refrigeration food preservation techniques are invalid here. Either the government disallows it or the American pallet can't handle it.
This is what can happen when food becomes big business. Old methods used by the little guy are deemed unsafe by the conglomerates so they can crush the competition. These mass production meats are loaded with germs (you don't want to know why). If a person doesn't cook the meat long enough and gets sick they will sue for damages, it's the American way.

[Fishin4bass723]

Well I got home from work last night and cut the bag open just to check. ... Well it was rancid. So of to the store I went to find a couple of new butts.

[JONESY]

If he had pulled it out to thaw the night before, forgot to put in the refrigerator and woke up 6 hours later to find it 46*, I'd say eat it without a doubt. What worries me is the time in the cooler and the unknown temps inside of the cooler, who knows maybe 46* was the coolest that piece of meat had been two days. Not worth it.