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View Full Version : Too much smoke? Not convinced.


thunter
08-08-2013, 07:19 PM
I have read other posts and I keep hearing the phrase "too much smoke". When I hear this its usually in reference to a bitter tasting meat. The only time I have had bitter taste was in my novice days of putting meat on the smoker with billowing smoke blasting from it, and keeping that heavy white smoke going the whole cook or at least most of it. But now that I know about the goodness of that thin blue smoke, and cooking with that clean heat, the meat is smoky but not bitter when I cook without foiling. On BBQ pitmasters for example, I constantly hear the judges refer to the meats not being smoky enough, and my thoughts are if they didn't wrap, the smoke flavor would be there.

So, I'm of the opinion that there is no such thing as too much smoke if the smoking is done correctly. If the meat comes out bitter tasting then the cooking process being used should be adjusted.

What do y'all think?

Happy Hapgood
08-08-2013, 07:44 PM
I can sure see what you are saying. I too cook on a WSM and can tell you that the meat can be oversmoked. Depending on the type of meat and type of wood, and the temp of the meat and the seasonings etc.

Looking at your sig, I see you are a former CBJ. Brother, comp BBQ and backyard BBQ seem like two different worlds to me.

RevZiLLa
08-08-2013, 07:54 PM
Smoke it to your taste and enjoy it. This ain't high precision rocket science...

Newenglandbbqer
08-08-2013, 07:57 PM
I generally smoke the entire process and I smoke butts up to 20 hours for a 16 pounder never had a bad outcome but they generally are slightly drier than some may like but I have a hard time remembering to use a mop sauce.

2dumb2kwit
08-08-2013, 08:00 PM
I tend to think of smoke as an ingredient. Kind of like salt. Salt makes stuff taste better, and I like salt, but you can easily have too much of it. (Just like smoke.)

frognot
08-08-2013, 08:08 PM
Cook to your own taste. My wife and 88 year old MIL are the primary people that i cook for so my aim is tenderness and a light smoke and spice flavor profile.

PekingPorker
08-08-2013, 08:16 PM
I tend to agree with the OP, in my opinion you can never have too much smoke when done right. However, over the years and as I've started learning competitive BBQ I've found out that I like more smoke flavor than most people.

coastal
08-08-2013, 08:44 PM
I like a heavy smoke flavor. Most people don't. I guess its a taste I developed from eating a lot of turkey smoked in a smoke house growing up.

I have only had really bitter bbq a couple of times and it was at a bbq resturant.

Q-Dat
08-08-2013, 08:59 PM
To this day my best pork has been when I smoked butts unwrapped at 225* over lump with pecan chunks for 12 hours and then finished in foil.

letdasmokeroll
08-08-2013, 09:11 PM
Honestly I can say I have never tasted any food thats OVER smoked ..that being said if not for the smoke flavor why not just cook on gas or in a oven ...again Im not sure about over smoked as I have never tasted it

IamMadMan
08-08-2013, 09:24 PM
I have read other posts and I keep hearing the phrase "too much smoke". When I hear this its usually in reference to a bitter tasting meat. The only time I have had bitter taste was in my novice days of putting meat on the smoker with billowing smoke blasting from it, and keeping that heavy white smoke going the whole cook or at least most of it.

So, I'm of the opinion that there is no such thing as too much smoke if the smoking is done correctly. If the meat comes out bitter tasting then the cooking process being used should be adjusted.



I agree, I used to cook the time with wood on my old offset without foiling, never too much smoke. I too think when a person complains of too much smoke they are referring to poor combustion in the cook with microscopic particles of creosote and tar which form on the food.

Also some woods like hickory and mesquite have a heavier smoke flavor, but do not taste over smoked.

.

oldbill
08-08-2013, 09:26 PM
I have read other posts and I keep hearing the phrase "too much smoke". When I hear this its usually in reference to a bitter tasting meat. The only time I have had bitter taste was in my novice days of putting meat on the smoker with billowing smoke blasting from it, and keeping that heavy white smoke going the whole cook or at least most of it. But now that I know about the goodness of that thin blue smoke, and cooking with that clean heat, the meat is smoky but not bitter when I cook without foiling. On BBQ pitmasters for example, I constantly hear the judges refer to the meats not being smoky enough, and my thoughts are if they didn't wrap, the smoke flavor would be there.

So, I'm of the opinion that there is no such thing as too much smoke if the smoking is done correctly. If the meat comes out bitter tasting then the cooking process being used should be adjusted.

What do y'all think?
You're absolutely correct! There are people who are afraid to use certain kinds of wood or wrap very early in the cook because they don't want "too much smoke" and bitter food when all along it's been their fire management skills that has been the problem. Hickory and mesquite are two examples of woods that some people run away from because they produce stronger smoke than other varieties but if they were really that difficult to use I could just about guarantee that restaurants wouldn't be using them, but some of the best Q joints in the country use one or the other, especially hickory! Over-smokiness and bitterness is caused by creosote and creosote is caused by poor fire management.

SimcoBBQ
08-08-2013, 09:36 PM
Amen! Proper fire management = good smoke flavor

Bludawg
08-08-2013, 10:31 PM
I have read other posts and I keep hearing the phrase "too much smoke". When I hear this its usually in reference to a bitter tasting meat. The only time I have had bitter taste was in my novice days of putting meat on the smoker with billowing smoke blasting from it, and keeping that heavy white smoke going the whole cook or at least most of it. But now that I know about the goodness of that thin blue smoke, and cooking with that clean heat, the meat is smoky but not bitter when I cook without foiling. On BBQ pitmasters for example, I constantly hear the judges refer to the meats not being smoky enough, and my thoughts are if they didn't wrap, the smoke flavor would be there.

So, I'm of the opinion that there is no such thing as too much smoke if the smoking is done correctly. If the meat comes out bitter tasting then the cooking process being used should be adjusted.

What do y'all think?I totally agree with this except for mesquite it is possible no matter how clean use to much it gets bitter.

TheBill
08-08-2013, 10:34 PM
I have read this many times...but have never experienced a "too much smoke" flavor.

Maybe it's the type of smoker???

I have only used offsets...

Bdub
08-08-2013, 10:39 PM
I do think it is possible to put too much smoke. For me personally I have to be careful when using oak. I guess its just a matter of taste but I love hickory but have had a couple of cooks turn out different than desired when using the same amount of oak that I would have used if I was cooking with hickory.

mbshop
08-08-2013, 10:40 PM
yep, to some the heavy amount is ok. to me i can't stand to much smoke. so as mentioned, smoke to what level you like.

thunter
08-08-2013, 10:40 PM
Awesome comments and lots to think about everyone! :grin:

thunter
08-08-2013, 10:49 PM
Honestly I can say I have never tasted any food thats OVER smoked ..that being said if not for the smoke flavor why not just cook on gas or in a oven ...again Im not sure about over smoked as I have never tasted it

I agree. To me, smoked meats means smoky flavor and if I can't taste the smoke in a very pronounced way (not bitter though), I am not satisfied.

martyleach
08-08-2013, 10:59 PM
You can definitely oversmoke things. Cheese takes a delicate smoke, depending on the texture of the cheese. Fish as well. Each meat, potato, cheese, nut, egg, etc. that you smoke will suck it in differently. The only way to know is to try. Oversmoking a delicate scallop will ruin it. Have fun and enjoy the fun of trying different stuff smoked. I certainly have!

thunter
08-08-2013, 11:30 PM
So, I'm hearing that some like more smoke than others, and that's cool. The ways I know of now to control smoke flavor are 1) Foil the meats during the cook, 2) Cook with charcoal and add the amount of wood chunks you want to provide the level of smoke flavor you want, or 3) Finish a cook in the oven, and I'm not being funny here either because I believe some people actually do this.

Are there other options for controlling smoke flavor that I have not listed? BTW, this is a great discussion! :-D

YetiDave
08-09-2013, 03:46 AM
For me there can definitely reach a point where the smoke taste becomes too 'raw'. I've never experienced any kind of bitterness but I find that smoke flavour needs to mellow during a cook, and keeping the smoke going right til the end (for a big cut that's had a lot of smoke) doesn't give it a chance to do so

Hawg Father of Seoul
08-09-2013, 04:06 AM
I can sure see what you are saying. I too cook on a WSM and can tell you that the meat can be oversmoked. Depending on the type of meat and type of wood, and the temp of the meat and the seasonings etc.

Looking at your sig, I see you are a former CBJ. Brother, comp BBQ and backyard BBQ seem like two different worlds to me.

Do you use the blue bag in your WSM?

oldbill
08-09-2013, 07:22 AM
Having read a lot of the posts, I think that there are more problems with strong smoke when the cooker is a charcoal burner rather than a stick burner. It makes sense because in an Egg, UDS or WSM you are trying to maximize the burn time and choking down on dampers or perhaps even using an automatic temp control device such as a Guru which entails closing dampers all together. That set up is great for burning the charcoal but any raw wood that is present won't combust like it should and just sit there and smolder, creating white, puffy smoke and creosote. The challenge with one of those cookers is to find exactly the right amount of wood and in what form (chips, chunks) that will give smoke but not too much. Probably there are also a lot of people who are soaking their wood chips or chunks and that in itself will cause the creosote problem in any cooker let alone a charcoal burner. If you're running an Egg, UDS or any cooker in that style and having bitter smoke problems, experiment with different sizes of chunks or chips and for heavens sake don't soak them!:wink::grin: P.S. After three hours or so into the cook the meat, (weather it is a large cut or small) has taken in about all the smoke that it will take and adding wood for the entire cook is not necessary. When using the minion or whatever method being used, add just enough wood at the beginning of the burn to last those three hours and then finish the cook with charcoal.:wink:

dbq
08-09-2013, 09:09 AM
I totally agree with this except for mesquite it is possible no matter how clean use to much it gets bitter.
+1 I think you can use too much mesquite.

ICDEDTURKES
08-09-2013, 09:29 AM
Having read a lot of the posts, I think that there are more problems with strong smoke when the cooker is a charcoal burner rather than a stick burner. It makes sense because in an Egg, UDS or WSM you are trying to maximize the burn time and choking down on dampers or perhaps even using an automatic temp control device such as a Guru which entails closing dampers all together. That set up is great for burning the charcoal but any raw wood that is present won't combust like it should and just sit there and smolder, creating white, puffy smoke and creosote. The challenge with one of those cookers is to find exactly the right amount of wood and in what form (chips, chunks) that will give smoke but not too much. Probably there are also a lot of people who are soaking their wood chips or chunks and that in itself will cause the creosote problem in any cooker let alone a charcoal burner. If you're running an Egg, UDS or any cooker in that style and having bitter smoke problems, experiment with different sizes of chunks or chips and for heavens sake don't soak them!:wink::grin: P.S. After three hours or so into the cook the meat, (weather it is a large cut or small) has taken in about all the smoke that it will take and adding wood for the entire cook is not necessary. When using the minion or whatever method being used, add just enough wood at the beginning of the burn to last those three hours and then finish the cook with charcoal.:wink:

That is part of the reason I use chips in the akorn instead of chunks. I normally get the white plumy smoke the first 30 minutes or so while bringing it up, after that I get thin blue the whole day with maybe a minute here or there with some thicker smoke.. Either know the dampners are closed down pretty good I feel as if I get a pretty clean burn with the lump/chip combo..

As far as smoky flavor, I feel I get a deeper smoke flavor on the stickburner.

16Adams
08-09-2013, 09:37 AM
If everybody liked and did the same things, nobody would ever leave home. Smoke on Brothers to your hearts desire and your palate's taste.

jestridge
08-09-2013, 09:40 AM
Lot of time it not too much smoke it because people use those God awful square charcoal thingy and a little piece of wood.

moontz
08-09-2013, 09:45 AM
Way back when I started with my old chargriller offset I remember trying to figure this all out and remember the smoke pouring out of all cracks and crevices of that thing. I also remember taking those ribs out afterwards and biting into them and almost feeling my tongue go numb because of the amount of bad smoke "flavor".

So I dont know if I would define that as oversmoked or just poorly smoked :) Probably the latter ;)

Since then, I load my ceramic and/or my uds up with a ton of chunks of whatever wood I have on hand (and have not been wrapping), make sure all white smoke is gone before putting the food on and the smoke taste is great for my preference. And there is always unburned wood remaining.

BB-Kuhn
08-09-2013, 09:47 AM
Like many have said, it's just a matter of preference. I like a heavy smoke flavor, and you almost can't have too much. BUT, I recognize that not everybody agrees. If i'm cooking for myself, i get as much as I can, but if I am cooking for comp or for other people, I give it a medium-hit.

Terry The Toad
08-09-2013, 10:01 AM
I definitely like a strong smoky flavor (especially to pork butts.) I often wonder how some folks achieve it. I have never wrapped a butt... I generally smoke at about 250 for about an hour per pound. I like my pulled pork, but I sometimes wish it had more smoke.

There is a BBQ place near me that cooks with gas and logs (using a Southern Pride, I think) - and he manages to produce some pretty darned good pork. He cooks for a LONG time at 225 on a rotisserie. I wonder if that is part of the secret?

Lake Dogs
08-09-2013, 10:33 AM
So, I'm hearing that some like more smoke than others, and that's cool. The ways I know of now to control smoke flavor are 1) Foil the meats during the cook, 2) Cook with charcoal and add the amount of wood chunks you want to provide the level of smoke flavor you want, or 3) Finish a cook in the oven, and I'm not being funny here either because I believe some people actually do this.

Are there other options for controlling smoke flavor that I have not listed? BTW, this is a great discussion! :-D

Your original piece about creosote and bitterness is 100% correct, but as you're finding out, even when cooked correctly with thin blue, everyone has a different opinion about what is and isn't the right amount. For example, on BBQ Pitmasters (as you evidenced), the judges are cooks, who work with and around smoke all the time. They've become de-sensitized to it. It takes more for them to notice it. Whereas someone else that doesn't work with smoke all the time might be very sensitive to the taste. That's why in cooking for competitions you need to find that mid-point, but err on the side of slightly undersmoked. Cooking for yourself; let 'er rip.

I've done all 3 techniques that you describe above. Most of the time we do #1.

jlane
08-09-2013, 03:53 PM
My first cook I kept adding wood every 20 minutes and the final product was horrible. I still remember the look my wife gave me after her first bite. I could see it in her eyes that she felt sorry for me. After that I shied away from using too much wood and was not happy with the results that way either. It took a few tries before I was happy with the smoke flavor. I will say that I've smoked cheese I felt was over done, but everyone else loved it.

talbrecht
08-09-2013, 04:47 PM
I have also heard about the "too much" smoke theory. Well until last night I didn't even know what they were referring to. I got a 2 meat brisket/rib plate. Well all i could taste was smoke. Not sour or bitter smoke but just an overwhelming taste of smoke and nothing else. It reminded me of being around a campfire too long where all your clothes smell like smoke and you can't get away from the smell of smoke.

letdasmokeroll
08-09-2013, 05:02 PM
Having read a lot of the posts, I think that there are more problems with strong smoke when the cooker is a charcoal burner rather than a stick burner. It makes sense because in an Egg, UDS or WSM you are trying to maximize the burn time and choking down on dampers or perhaps even using an automatic temp control device such as a Guru which entails closing dampers all together. That set up is great for burning the charcoal but any raw wood that is present won't combust like it should and just sit there and smolder, creating white, puffy smoke and creosote. The challenge with one of those cookers is to find exactly the right amount of wood and in what form (chips, chunks) that will give smoke but not too much. Probably there are also a lot of people who are soaking their wood chips or chunks and that in itself will cause the creosote problem in any cooker let alone a charcoal burner. If you're running an Egg, UDS or any cooker in that style and having bitter smoke problems, experiment with different sizes of chunks or chips and for heavens sake don't soak them!:wink::grin: P.S. After three hours or so into the cook the meat, (weather it is a large cut or small) has taken in about all the smoke that it will take and adding wood for the entire cook is not necessary. When using the minion or whatever method being used, add just enough wood at the beginning of the burn to last those three hours and then finish the cook with charcoal.:wink:

IMO hit the nail on the head right here :clap2: