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rgrizzle
04-29-2013, 07:15 PM
I am working on a special menu for a local bar and grill locally, they want me to come in on Sundays and special event to do bbq. We are going to do a 75% to 25% split of all bbq sales. I don't want to out price myself but I do need to make it worth my time.

I will be doing two meats per Sunday. For example Baby Backs and chicken. or Pulled Pork and chicken, or brisket and chicken. the sides will be baked beans and cole slaw. for ribs I was thinking 1/2 rack platter for $15.00 whole rack platter for $28.00 chicken platter for $10.00. on the pulled pork I am thinking $5.00 sandwhiches $8.50 with fries or sides. pulled pork platter for $12.00. brisket sanwhiches for $6.50,brisket combo fries or sides $9.50 brisket platter for $15.00

The owner is giving me free run of the kitchen on those days and his cook.
any thought or suggestion please HELP!!!!!

Bbq Bubba
04-29-2013, 07:21 PM
25% to the bar will pretty much be ALL your profit. Why give them so much?

Just the fact that you will be bringing in more drinkers should be compensation enough!

landarc
04-29-2013, 07:48 PM
Normally, I look at 4x food costs for total food price to customer. However, if you give away 25%, then you are looking at 3x food costs. 3x food costs, assuming you are buying at restaurant wholesale is going to return marginal profits to you, and a huge profit to the bar owner. To me, this is a walk away.

I think Bubba is right, and he is a pro, that going with a 25% courtesy fee to the bar owner, who is getting additional draw from you, that is generous. Unless you want to work for free, to build business. Will you get to market and give out your name and materials, sell your catering or party cooking? What would be the upside?

IamMadMan
04-29-2013, 08:27 PM
I agree with BBQ Bubba.....

Definitely too high of a split with the owner. To adjust your prices to make it profitable for you at that ratio would make you look like a crook charging too much.

Bottom line, the blame will be on you for high prices and no one will consider you for catering.

rgrizzle
04-29-2013, 09:35 PM
what would you guys suggest on this then. the split be 80% to 20% or 90% to 10% help me out here this is new to me. what about the pricing does is look par for the course. From what I can tell looking at other menus and doing some math I figured I was at least heading in the correct direction. the reason I was looking at the 25% was the bar is going to supply all of the plates and utinsels.

HBMTN
04-29-2013, 09:35 PM
I'd go there and drink the beer and let someone else do the barbecue. I'd figure out what you want to make and tell him to pay you that and you will cook for him. Let him assume all the risk.

rgrizzle
04-29-2013, 09:39 PM
all I have to do is show up fix the meat and baked beans and cole slaw and sit and drink cold beer all day listening to the band. the bar is going to do all the order taking and serving. he is paying all that labor.

landarc
04-29-2013, 09:43 PM
You're going about this backwards, you cannot succeed in the food business basing on other folks menu prices. You will go broke doing that.

1. Set what you are going to serve. Be complete in this, account for all the food on the plate, from main to sides and condiments.

2. Make an estimate of how much food you expect to sell each day, break it down to the point you know all of the components.

3. Find out where you will be buying the foods.

4. Build a detailed shopping list and find out your hard food costs. From there, you can figure out how much each menu item costs you to produce, include fuel, charcoal, wood, spices, your time. From there, figure out how much you can charge using the rule of 3x or 4x food costs. That will tell you what your profit is. From there, you split profit, not gross.

5. Beware, and I mean, do not enter into, any agreement that has you splitting off a share of your gross. Even a 10% share of gross really can mean you make no money. Do your leg work, estimate profit and let him know what you will share of profit.

rgrizzle
04-29-2013, 09:54 PM
Sorry I probably should have explained that I have done the leg work and done some math, on food cost and used the 3x and 4x costing. I have a supplier of meats at wholesale, the best prices I can find around here. I what I was meaning is, does the pricing look in line with what everyone else is doing. the plus side is that I would be the only show in town doing bbq.

landarc
04-29-2013, 10:05 PM
Ohhhh....then yeah, you look a little low to me, but, I am in California.

rgrizzle
04-29-2013, 10:20 PM
thanks landarc. seeing that your in Cali. Then they should be good. Now to figure out the % thing with the owner. I do know that on a nice sunday, with good weather out, that bar can pack in around 2-300 people. this is a big biker bar here locally. I know that I am not going to be able to retire doing this only on Sundays but hope to atleast make a few bucks :clap2:

BigBellyBBQ
04-30-2013, 01:06 AM
5 dollar sandwiches is way low...

toadhunter911
04-30-2013, 08:15 AM
5 dollar sandwiches is way low...

I was thinking more like $7.00 for PP and $8.00 for brisket sammies, but it really depends on how much your paying for the meat?

Cayman1
04-30-2013, 08:57 AM
I'll let the others discuss prices, but from a legal perspective, there are numerous areas that need to be addressed, i.e. are you covered as an Additional Insured under his liability policies, will there be an Indemnity and Hold Harmless Agreement, etc.
Get some legal advice so you don't end up in a big mess for very little profit.

cynfulsmokersbbq
04-30-2013, 10:57 AM
You're going about this backwards, you cannot succeed in the food business basing on other folks menu prices. You will go broke doing that.

1. Set what you are going to serve. Be complete in this, account for all the food on the plate, from main to sides and condiments.

2. Make an estimate of how much food you expect to sell each day, break it down to the point you know all of the components.

3. Find out where you will be buying the foods.

4. Build a detailed shopping list and find out your hard food costs. From there, you can figure out how much each menu item costs you to produce, include fuel, charcoal, wood, spices, your time. From there, figure out how much you can charge using the rule of 3x or 4x food costs. That will tell you what your profit is. From there, you split profit, not gross.

5. Beware, and I mean, do not enter into, any agreement that has you splitting off a share of your gross. Even a 10% share of gross really can mean you make no money. Do your leg work, estimate profit and let him know what you will share of profit.

OUTSTANDING Advice!!!
Thank You for sharing!

cynfulsmokersbbq
04-30-2013, 10:59 AM
I'll let the others discuss prices, but from a legal perspective, there are numerous areas that need to be addressed, i.e. are you covered as an Additional Insured under his liability policies, will there be an Indemnity and Hold Harmless Agreement, etc.
Get some legal advice so you don't end up in a big mess for very little profit.

Might add to this, is your business licensed with the city? Does it need to be? If your business is licensed/approved for one location, can you use "His kitchen" and still be covered by the Health Department?

cynfulsmokersbbq
04-30-2013, 11:08 AM
I do something similar for a local bar. We worked hard to cover all of our bases.

I keep all income from the BBQ. It is my baby. I am the top BBQ cook in town, (it's a small town. :-D ) Honestly though, I've built a solid regional reputation that is followed by many of our local and regional BBQ fans. I wouldn't cook for less. HE gets to use my name in his advertising. Much like the bands he hires he gets to use me for a draw to his bar. We will fill the place up, and on a Saturday night that he would normally have a couple dozen pool players and bar sitters, he has a full crowd, buying drinks.

rgrizzle
04-30-2013, 02:41 PM
I do something similar for a local bar. We worked hard to cover all of our bases.

I keep all income from the BBQ. It is my baby. I am the top BBQ cook in town, (it's a small town. :-D ) Honestly though, I've built a solid regional reputation that is followed by many of our local and regional BBQ fans. I wouldn't cook for less. HE gets to use my name in his advertising. Much like the bands he hires he gets to use me for a draw to his bar. We will fill the place up, and on a Saturday night that he would normally have a couple dozen pool players and bar sitters, he has a full crowd, buying drinks.
I am actually in a similar situation, except ths place will pack in around 200 on Sundays during the spring summer and fall.

rgrizzle
04-30-2013, 04:40 PM
if anyone else has any suggestions hints or anythng that could help me please post

Bourbon Barrel BBQ
04-30-2013, 05:28 PM
I would only consider a 75% 25% split if it was profits not sales.

ButtBurner
04-30-2013, 06:02 PM
I am not in this line of work but did own my own auto repair shop for 15 years so I do have some experience

As long as you have all the legal angles covered, I say just give it a try one time how you think it would work best for you

If it does not work, then you know. either change the arrangement or dont do it anymore.

If it does work, great

Sometimes you just gotta take a chance

IamMadMan
05-01-2013, 06:49 AM
You're going about this backwards, you cannot succeed in the food business basing on other folks menu prices. You will go broke doing that.

1. Set what you are going to serve. Be complete in this, account for all the food on the plate, from main to sides and condiments.

2. Make an estimate of how much food you expect to sell each day, break it down to the point you know all of the components.

3. Find out where you will be buying the foods.

4. Build a detailed shopping list and find out your hard food costs. From there, you can figure out how much each menu item costs you to produce, include fuel, charcoal, wood, spices, your time. From there, figure out how much you can charge using the rule of 3x or 4x food costs. That will tell you what your profit is. From there, you split profit, not gross.

5. Beware, and I mean, do not enter into, any agreement that has you splitting off a share of your gross. Even a 10% share of gross really can mean you make no money. Do your leg work, estimate profit and let him know what you will share of profit.

Might add to this, is your business licensed with the city? Does it need to be? If your business is licensed/approved for one location, can you use "His kitchen" and still be covered by the Health Department?

I'll let the others discuss prices, but from a legal perspective, there are numerous areas that need to be addressed, i.e. are you covered as an Additional Insured under his liability policies, will there be an Indemnity and Hold Harmless Agreement, etc.
Get some legal advice so you don't end up in a big mess for very little profit.


These are all professionals, listen to their advice...

If not legally covered and protected you could lose your home and everything you own because someone makes a false claim and sues you...

toadhunter911
05-01-2013, 09:54 AM
I am not in this line of work but did own my own auto repair shop for 15 years so I do have some experience

As long as you have all the legal angles covered, I say just give it a try one time how you think it would work best for you

If it does not work, then you know. either change the arrangement or dont do it anymore.

If it does work, great

Sometimes you just gotta take a chance

Kinda hard to change an agreement with a bar owner after the fact. Make sure you have it right first, and if your gonna do it, do it with all you have.

ButtBurner
05-01-2013, 12:15 PM
Kinda hard to change an agreement with a bar owner after the fact. Make sure you have it right first, and if your gonna do it, do it with all you have.

not if you agree to do it once in on a trial basis

chachahut
05-01-2013, 03:02 PM
When discussing any split with the bar - you must (as Landarc pointed out) make it a split of the profits NOT sales. Unless the bar is kicking in a % for at least the supplies, then your % will be covering material costs PLUS your time PLUS a VERY marginal profit (maybe). Meanwhile, the bar gets pure profit for their %. Better might be to make a decision on how much you think you'll make in profit - let's say you're clearing $3 per item x 200 people = $600 & offer the bar $100 as "rent" for the day.

bizznessman
05-02-2013, 04:27 PM
A great deal of advice in this thread. I will only add. From the legal aspect.

Get EVERYTHING in writing. i.e. Signed Contract with the bar owner. Just as in any catering gig the contract can save you if it comes to he said/he said should disagreements arise.

rgrizzle
05-02-2013, 04:39 PM
I dropped off a proposal today, I proposed and 80-20 split on profit, not net sales. I also recapped some of our conversation like he will order the meats and suppies for sides and I will pay him back. He will keep his cook on for that day to help serve along with his staff and that he would be paying me like an employee under his business, so that I am covered legally under the corporation. hope I covered everythng. I also hope to hear back from him today or by the end of the weekend.

themidniteryder
05-02-2013, 11:56 PM
I am not sure I would of went with the "he will order the meats and suppies for sides and I will pay him back". You lose quality control here. If he orders $1.50/lb brisket vs. $3.50/lb then the quality suffers, yet you are going to be blamed for putting out an inferior product. And it is your reputation on the line. Will he show you the actual invoice to back up the cost claim? By the same token, are you able to show a convincing breakdown of your cost and actual profit? That includes salt down to the last grain, charcoal/wood, your fuel getting to and from the bar, taxes and insurance you may be paying, your time doing the paperwork...lots of things to consider when figuring costs and "profit".

cynfulsmokersbbq
05-03-2013, 11:56 AM
I dropped off a proposal today, I proposed and 80-20 split on profit, not net sales. I also recapped some of our conversation like he will order the meats and suppies for sides and I will pay him back. He will keep his cook on for that day to help serve along with his staff and that he would be paying me like an employee under his business, so that I am covered legally under the corporation. hope I covered everythng. I also hope to hear back from him today or by the end of the weekend.



Good luck!!! Please let us all know how it goes! I love to hear success stories, and I am sure yours will be very successful.

Something for future consideration is him ordering the meats. I assume he uses a Sysco type supplier. I have found that in smaller quantities, it is easier and cheaper for me to use Sam's or Costco, I also get some quality control over what I use. If he is ordering large quantities or has a good vendor agreement with his supplier than his way may very well be the way to go.

landarc
05-03-2013, 01:40 PM
For the record, I am not a professional cook anymore. I didn't find it suited me.

txschutte
05-03-2013, 06:44 PM
Work for the TOTAL sales angle.

Serve nothing but saltier wings and ABT's.

Salt and spice drive up beverage sales. Keep account of ALL sales during your serve time, then re-negotiate.

Breads do what beer does, and that fills people up. He wants sales? Salt and spice.

rgrizzle
05-03-2013, 09:12 PM
I am not sure I would of went with the "he will order the meats and suppies for sides and I will pay him back". You lose quality control here. If he orders $1.50/lb brisket vs. $3.50/lb then the quality suffers, yet you are going to be blamed for putting out an inferior product. And it is your reputation on the line. Will he show you the actual invoice to back up the cost claim? By the same token, are you able to show a convincing breakdown of your cost and actual profit? That includes salt down to the last grain, charcoal/wood, your fuel getting to and from the bar, taxes and insurance you may be paying, your time doing the paperwork...lots of things to consider when figuring costs and "profit".
we had a long talk about meat quality before he even said to run some numbers see what I need perctenage wise to make it work for me. i told him That I do not serve low quality meats, I would rather pay a higher price for better meats then sell subpar ribs or brsket.

PorkQPine
05-04-2013, 06:24 PM
I do something similar for a local bar. We worked hard to cover all of our bases.

I keep all income from the BBQ. It is my baby. I am the top BBQ cook in town, (it's a small town. :-D ) Honestly though, I've built a solid regional reputation that is followed by many of our local and regional BBQ fans. I wouldn't cook for less. HE gets to use my name in his advertising. Much like the bands he hires he gets to use me for a draw to his bar. We will fill the place up, and on a Saturday night that he would normally have a couple dozen pool players and bar sitters, he has a full crowd, buying drinks.

Exactly right. He gets increased liquor sales and you get the BBQ. Asking for your you to give 25% is a winner for him but a loser for you.

BigBellyBBQ
05-05-2013, 03:26 AM
I did a special event at a night club 2 weeks ago, I did not want any part of projected sales and had them order what they thought the sales would be, let thier kitchen serve it. They ordered brisket and pulled pork, so I set them up with 1/2 tins. If they sold out great, if crowd was small or sales were slow, they paid me for product ordered beforehand. I was there to help promote sales and answer questions from the patrons.
I rather make a little less, and guareentee what I cooked will not be back in the fridge as it cost lots when you have un-sold product.

cynfulsmokersbbq
05-06-2013, 02:51 PM
I did a special event at a night club 2 weeks ago, I did not want any part of projected sales and had them order what they thought the sales would be, let thier kitchen serve it. They ordered brisket and pulled pork, so I set them up with 1/2 tins. If they sold out great, if crowd was small or sales were slow, they paid me for product ordered beforehand. I was there to help promote sales and answer questions from the patrons.
I rather make a little less, and guareentee what I cooked will not be back in the fridge as it cost lots when you have un-sold product.

What did you charge, if you don't mind us asking?

Teltum
05-14-2013, 07:57 AM
Here is Medina/Barberton ohio.

Your full rack prices are about 2$ higher then most othe the places around here. And the ribs for 23$/rack are a life changing experience.

The rest of the prices are a little wacky because they are either kinda high (pulled pork normally 15$ for a hand full of pork, some cornbread and some fries) the brisket sandwich could go up 2$.

Bear in mind that Medina is kind of rural upscale. And Bullies is kind of upscale casual dining. It is not an "Outback" but it is close.

http://www.bulliesbbq.com/menu1.html If I am not making my own BBQ this is where I go and they are by far and above the best place in the whole of Medina Ohio.

www.lagerheads.us/ (http://www.lagerheads.us/) is another local establishment to me, they are the other non chain Q place in Medina. and they are way more biker friendly. No one in B-town does Q that I know of. Medina has a Lowerys BBQ and near b-town they have Old Carolina BBQ comapny (both are chain stores).

So long and short - some prices are a little high or a little low but from what I can tell for a one off a week they are pretty in line.

rgrizzle
05-20-2013, 09:35 PM
An update. I agreed to a deal with the owner and fixed alot of the pricing thanks for all the input everybody. We will be setting a start date here soon. I will let everyone know how is goes.