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MadCityJim
04-03-2013, 10:49 AM
Hey Guys:
As the snow slowly melts from my backyard, the wife and I are starting to plan a remodel of the deck in our backyard. The whole area immediately outside our back door is either wood deck or swimming pool. The deck is low, only 1-1.5 feet off the ground. Right now in a corner between the house and the porch, I have set a 3 x 6 area of brick pavers directly on the wood deck and this is where I use my smoker and kettle grill pretty much year round. Putting the pavers on top of the wood really shortens the life of the wood deck as they keep a layer of moisture on the woods that rarely drys. Not a big issue up to now since the deck was at the end of its life and we just moved in a couple of years ago.

So this year we are going to remodel this section of the deck, and I'm looking for suggestions for materials to do a larger section with a fire resistant material to make grilling safer and less likely to end up with burn marks from dropped coals etc. I have an area that sort of defines itself that's about 10 x 12 that I'm looking at. I'd still like it framed so it's at the same level of the rest of the deck.

Do any of you guys have any suggestions for me?

Jim

Toney Marconi
04-03-2013, 10:57 AM
Pics may help

Thermal Mass
04-03-2013, 11:06 AM
Pics may help

Got an idea from your suckling pig thread what the area is like, but some perspective shots of the area would be great.

Got a few ideas, just don't want to shoot from the hip...:idea:

MadCityJim
04-03-2013, 11:20 AM
New House form the Suckling Pig Incident:
Here's the big view:
http://emcnhcc.ehost-services150.com/images/deck/img_0441.jpg

Here's the area I'm thinking for the Cooking area:
http://emcnhcc.ehost-services150.com/images/deck/img_0442.jpg
http://emcnhcc.ehost-services150.com/images/img_0441.jpg

Toney Marconi
04-03-2013, 11:29 AM
I don't know how expensive this is, but it may not be too bad for a small area:

http://www.fsihp.com/products/decking/nextdeck-aluminum-decking

Designed for the life of your deck, NextDeck® aluminum decking is fireproof, pest resistant and will not rust, rot, sag, splinter, warp or crack in freezing temperatures.

HankB
04-03-2013, 11:29 AM
I cringe when I look at pictures like that. Having cookers with live fire inside them puts you one mishap away from burning down your house. It's one thing for grilling where you are going to be tending the cook and right there, but for smoking this thing will be there a long time w/out close supervision, perhaps even overnight while you sleep. I can't speak for you but a layer of brick on top of the deck would not be sufficient for me.

My suggestion - not what you want I'm sure - would be steps as close to the back door as possible to take you to ground level where you could situate cookers in absolute safety.

Wampus
04-03-2013, 11:37 AM
I'm not exactly sure how fire resistant the "Trex" or "engineered wood" decking planks are, but I'd guess moreso than regular wood. They're at least the same thickness and look of your current wood planking. Just an idea.

Only other thing I can think of is to perhaps cut out and remove the portion of the wood planking that you want to replace, use a marine grade plywood (read water resistant) that would be thinner than the current decking planks, then lay in dry fit tiles or pavers or something. You could drill holes in the plywood to get rid of collecting water after rains.

I assume you have the 5/4" boards (which have probably dried/shrank to a pretty consistent 1" thick? If that's so, then you could use 3/4" marine plywood, then lay in 3/16" terra cotta tiles or something like that. Just lay them in there dry, then you can remove to clean if you want.

OR, you COULD actually use thinset mortar or mastic to actually adhere the tiles to a substrate and then grout in between them if you want to go to that extent.



Just my first thoughts.

Thermal Mass
04-03-2013, 11:48 AM
Have to a agree with HankB on the proximity to the house. I appears (maybe just from the shadow) the there may already be some heat damage to the siding?

Either way it is kind of a odd space with the larger deck attached.
You could:
Remove the 10x12 deck area, block it up (perimeter) fill with compacted soil to about 10" from the top, add Compacted TB, and do a brick paver finish (herring bone pattern)?
In the event the rest of the existing deck is remodeled, you could lower the new part to closer to pool level and the paver patio would be a accent area and slight step up.
OR-
Frame up a "grill/smoker" holding area out of treated lumber and top with Durock and ceramic tile. The whole unit would rest on 1" treated furring strips so not to hold moisture/ice.
I think this may look pretty cool if placed by the ginormous brick chimney with beer holder ledge?

Will keep ideas coming, Thoughts?

Vision
04-03-2013, 11:50 AM
I cringe when I look at pictures like that. Having cookers with live fire inside them puts you one mishap away from burning down your house. It's one thing for grilling where you are going to be tending the cook and right there, but for smoking this thing will be there a long time w/out close supervision, perhaps even overnight while you sleep. I can't speak for you but a layer of brick on top of the deck would not be sufficient for me.

My suggestion - not what you want I'm sure - would be steps as close to the back door as possible to take you to ground level where you could situate cookers in absolute safety.


If you use a maverick you'll know if there is a temperature drop aka if something is seriously wrong.

gruene smoke
04-03-2013, 11:56 AM
Is that vinyl siding or hardy board? I would never put a heat source that close to vinyl and it makes me uneasy even if it's hardy board. I'd be much more concerned with the closness to the house than I would about the deck surface. Smokers and grills should be 12 ft from structure.

New Pal Frank
04-03-2013, 12:10 PM
Sorry. I'm with the move it away from the house group, then talk about what to set them on.
I about shat when I saw the pictures.

Wampus
04-03-2013, 12:15 PM
I can't see the 3rd photo, which must be the one everyone's reacting to. I'm only seeing the first two.

MadCityJim
04-03-2013, 12:22 PM
As the project progresses, the siding on the back of the house will be replaced with something more heat resistant. I've already warped it in a couple of spots. The ginormous Chimney is going to be framed into wood shed with deck above. A corner of the chimney will remain exposed.

I'm sketching up the area and will send for a quote on the aluminum decking. I don't know if that will make the budget. On one site, an 8ft aluminum deck board was $72.

I'm also interested in some sort of tile. I'm hoping to here from someone with experience with underlaying the tile in a cold climate like Wisconsin.

Thermal Mass
04-03-2013, 12:28 PM
If your budget is near enough for Aluminum decking, tear it (all) out and pour the whole thing (or the area in question) in stamped concrete??

Motley Q
04-03-2013, 01:22 PM
You use that smoker next to the siding??

Why???

Do you have a hotline to the fire dept?.

Aluminum decking > buy a piece and put it in the sun for a while and see how scorching hot it gets. Bad option

Trex or engineered decking......add your name to the lawsuits filed.

Stucco next to the deck......wil absorb water unless installed correctly and maintained.

Best option......cheap and easy

Stop being careless.

Oldbob
04-03-2013, 01:24 PM
Here is a Picture of the Stamped Concrete we had done last summer on the Patio area








http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r174/bob_indy/E5333008-0305-49A7-B8EF-FA5D442F16FA-2518-00000666FFBB73A9.jpg

Oldbob
04-03-2013, 01:27 PM
A Little closer view of the concrete


http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r174/bob_indy/EE354B71-C37D-4617-920B-0FAB50F5269D-2518-00000666FD9AFFDF.jpg


I hope this helps You...it is a big decision to redo all that area...but might be well worth it for Safety Sake !!

MadCityJim
04-03-2013, 01:34 PM
I really want to keep the smoker & grill close to the house. I'm planning on making the deck and siding a lot more fire resistant. I use the grill throughout the winter and know if it gets moved to the other side of the deck it won't get used in the winter for sure. Probably not very much in the summer either.

Early research puts wood deck at $6/sqft installed; composite at $10/sqft installed; aluminum at $12 installed. Total cost of ownership after 4-5 years is almost dead even regardless of material.

I'm thinking of going to stucco for the walls of the back of the house.

MadCityJim
04-03-2013, 01:39 PM
I love the look of that stamped concrete, but it will quadruple the scope of work involved in this project. I'm still curious though, what was the cost per square foot on that project?

Oldbob
04-03-2013, 01:51 PM
I will have to see if I can find the contract on the concrete Jim...not sure of the square footage....but it was in the 2K range for the deck and a back walk that is not shown !

I also agree with Motley on the Aluminum...we bought an aluminum patio table last year and it get so Hot You can hardly touch it...just a thought on that !!

I think an aluminum deck would be Unbearable

and just plain concrete would be cheaper that the stamped...the stamped in Very Labor Intensive !!

Motley Q
04-03-2013, 01:51 PM
i think many posters on this board use charcoal on their decks with no problems

They also have unmelted/unburned siding.

Your problem isn't the material used in the siding or decking

It''s the person who lights the grill

N8man
04-03-2013, 01:51 PM
I'm wondering about how the close proximity of your cookers in relation
to the house affects the coverage/liability of your home owners insurance....
you do have insurance right?


I have a covered porch in front and a covered deck in the rear....and you won't
see my cookers on either.....sacrificing safety for convenience's sake is a bad idea
in my opinion......

New Pal Frank
04-03-2013, 01:53 PM
Note the GREAT distance between the house and all sources of FLAME.

P.S. If you do have an accdent with your equipment and have a fire, Mr. insurance may not come thruogh for you.:shocked:



Here is a Picture of the Stamped Concrete we had done last summer on the Patio area








http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r174/bob_indy/E5333008-0305-49A7-B8EF-FA5D442F16FA-2518-00000666FFBB73A9.jpg

N8man
04-03-2013, 02:05 PM
I just went back and looked at your photos....
I don't see a fire extinguisher anywheres.....


just saying....

J-Rod
04-03-2013, 02:05 PM
I'm wondering about how the close proximity of your cookers in relation
to the house affects the coverage/liability of your home owners insurance....
you do have insurance right?


I have a covered porch in front and a covered deck in the rear....and you won't
see my cookers on either.....sacrificing safety for convenience's sake is a bad idea
in my opinion......

Agreed.

...or install a bunch of these-https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRvpjdCEqqW4tgOYxYpcuLVKBvRNir6E E718P5sNf57DhUKOxaw:razz:

Oldbob
04-03-2013, 02:12 PM
The Deck itself looks to be in good shape...You might want to consider tearing part of the deck there by the Brick wall out and have a section of concrete put in just there to set the cookers on and use the brickwall as the backdrop...that would be a lot cheaper than tearing the whole deck out !! Just my .$02

Grillman
04-03-2013, 04:50 PM
I found the Madison Wisconsin Fire Department website. I copy & pasted the section that probably applies to you.
============================


Outdoor & Open Burning

The Madison General Ordinance and the State Fire Code prohibit outdoor and open burning without a permit. A license is required for the kindling or maintaining of an open fire or a fire on any public street, alley, road, or other public or private ground. Go to Open Burning License Information (http://www.cityofmadison.com/fire/documents/Burn-GeneralBurningLicenseApplication-2007%20$50.pdf) (PDF).

For supplemental information on campfires, outdoor fireplaces, clay fireplaces, LP-assisted ignition fireplaces, home-built fireplaces, cooking fires, charcoal & LP-gas grills and other open-flame cooking devices, go to Outdoor & Open Burning Informational Bulletin (http://www.cityofmadison.com/fire/documents/OutdoorandOpenBurningGuide.pdf) (PDF).

For a summary of information specific to grills (open-flame cooking devices), go to Grills - City of Madison Ordinance (http://www.cityofmadison.com/fire/documents/Grills.pdf) (PDF).

Grill Safety Tips

The National Fire Protection Agency (NFPA), US Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC), and City of Madison Fire Department recommend the following grill safety tips:

General Grill Safety Tips (http://www.cityofmadison.com/fire/prevention/safety/home/grills.cfm#general)
Gas Grill Safety Tips (http://www.cityofmadison.com/fire/prevention/safety/home/grills.cfm#gas)
Charcoal Grill Safety Tips (http://www.cityofmadison.com/fire/prevention/safety/home/grills.cfm#charcoal)



General Grill Safety Tips



NEVER use a grill indoors (home, tent, vehicle, etc.). The toxic gas produced by charcoal or gas grilling are extremely dangerous and can kill without warning.
Always follow the manufacturer's instructions. Perform an annual safety inspection prior to the first seasonal use of a grill.
Never allow children to use the grill. Create a safety zone of at least 3 feet around the grill and place the grill a safe distance from play areas.
Place the grill at least 10 feet from combustible materials such as siding, decks, tree branches, etc.
Avoid Burns: Use proper utensils with long handles that allow the chef plenty of clearance from the heat and flames.
Do not wear loose clothing while cooking.
Never leave cooking unattended.
Periodically remove grease buildup from the grill surfaces and the trays below the grill so the grease is not ignited by the hot grill.
Keep a fire extinguisher nearby and accessible.



Gas (LP or propane) Grill Safety Tips



Check the tubes that lead into the burner for any blockage from insects, grease, or other debris.
Check grill hoses and fittings for cracking, brittleness, holes, scratches, or leaks. Replace as necessary.
Move gas hoses as far away as possible from hot surfaces and dripping hot grease. Install a heat shield if necessary.
If you smell gas when you reconnect the grill to the LP gas container check for leaks following the manufacturer's instructions. If you detect or suspect a leak, immediately turn off the gas and don't attempt to light the grill until the leak has been fixed.

In many cases, a light soap and water solution applied to the fittings and hoses can help detect gas leaks by the appearance of bubbles from the escaping gas.


Keep lighted cigarettes, matches, or open flames away from a leaking grill.
Do not attempt to repair the tank valve or appliance yourself. See an LP gas dealer or qualified appliance repair person.
Consumers should use caution when storing LP gas containers. Keep containers upright and do not store them near the grill or indoors. Never store flammable liquids, like gasoline, near the grill.
LP gas containers should be transported in a secure upright position – never keep a filled tank in a hot car or trunk.


Note: All propane cylinders manufactured after April 2002 must have overfill protection devices (OPD). OPDs shut off the flow of propane before capacity is reached, limiting the potential for release of propane gas if the cylinder heats up.

Charcoal Grill Safety Tips



Charcoal produces carbon monoxide (CO) when burned. CO is a colorless, odorless gas that can accumulate to toxic levels in closed environments.

Never use a grill indoors!


Make sure charcoal has been completely extinguished before disposing of the ashes and storing the grill – ashes may reignite 48 to 72 hours after use.
If using a fluid to start the charcoal grill, use only starter fluid intended for this purpose. It is extremely dangerous to use any other combustible liquid to start the coals.
Never apply charcoal lighter (starter) fluid after the charcoal has been lit.
Store starter fluid away from heat sources and out of reach from children.


http://www.cityofmadison.com/fire/prevention/safety/home/grills.cfm

.

dwfisk
04-03-2013, 05:32 PM
First, that's a really nice deck and patio (and from what we can see a nice house), you and the spousal unit should be proud of what you have put together. Be a damn shame to have an avoidable accident. If it were mine, I'd figure out some way to get a fireproof base to my cook toys (concrete) with at least a 3-5 ft perimeter to anything that could melt or burn. Maybe move to the "patio" area and add some kind of cover to keep that white chit off. But I acknowledge I'm one of those guys that have had a grease fire or two after 40+ years of outdoors cookin so I'm kinda parinoid about fire.

Smoothsmoke
04-03-2013, 05:35 PM
The Deck itself looks to be in good shape...You might want to consider tearing part of the deck there by the Brick wall out and have a section of concrete put in just there to set the cookers on and use the brickwall as the backdrop...that would be a lot cheaper than tearing the whole deck out !! Just my .$02

+1

:thumb:

MadCityJim
04-04-2013, 10:52 AM
We're going to have to tear up the deck in front of the chimney to get the woodshed built. At that point we'd be able to see what we are up against for putting a ground level patio in. I know there will be a bunch of issues: the 50 year old concrete deck around the pool and maybe a 40 year old in-ground spa. 20 years ago the previous owners put the wood deck there for a reason. We'll find out later this summer.

Jim

tb80
04-04-2013, 01:00 PM
Re: Fire safety issues and grills close proximity to the house.
Couldn't he just move the grills to where they are next to the chimney and then place some fireproof stones/mats under the grills. That way they are away from the siding and they have protection underneath. Or is this still a bad idea?

Kave Dweller
04-04-2013, 01:38 PM
http://products.construction.com/Manufacturer/Hoover-Treated-Wood-Products--Inc--NST2450/Products/Exterior-Fire-X--Exterior-Fire-Retardant-Treated-Wood-NST46533-p

We use this stuff all the time on exterior decks that come within 4' of the unit next door. This is in chicago, don't know if they have it everywhere.