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View Full Version : Meat Glue, Sous Vide, chicken parts and what have ya


centexsmoker
12-30-2012, 12:10 PM
Did a really fun cook last night and just had to share. I ate at Drago Centro in LA a few weeks ago and they did this chicken dish that was out of this world. I pretty much sniffed it out and vowed to try it. Once the Fabulous Janell got wind of the plan, she essentially ran me off the cook but I didn't mind. The Horns were playing in the Alamo Bowl and she is a way more artistic cook than me. Here is the rundown:

I brined 3 bone in, skin on chicken breast and then was told to go watch football.

Here is what TFJ did with the brined breasts:

Boned and skinned them and scraped all 3 skins.

Meat glued 2 of the breasts together (inverted so the thin part of one is facing the thick part o the other.)

She then glued the scraped skin all the way around both breasts (took all 3 skins)

Then rolled the breast in plastic wrap to form a sphere. We lightly froze it so we could vac seal it for the sous vide without it Losing it's shape. You could drop the plastic wrapped breasts directly in the SV but we were using store bought wrap instead of commercial and didn't trust it.

We cooked them SV for 4 hours, browned with a torch to crisp up the skin and served with TFJ's "all day Marsala Demi", mashed potatoes, and roasted Brussels Sprouts. Really cool take on chicken Marsala with a presentation worthy of a very upscale restaurant. Lot of work but tons of fun. We are doing it again today

A few things we learned:

meat glue is awesome (I've known this for a while but my love has been renewed)

Scraping chicken skin and meat gluing back on is an awesome technique to get perfect skin.

I'll never make chicken without brining again

Sous Vide is the best way to cook chicken. Period.

Here we go:

This is the original meal I had in LA

http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u435/johnoakestx/ABFC9D4A-BF91-4B63-8B3E-4486061B75AF-272-0000002BA0C2A2DE.jpg

Here is how we replicated it:

2 brined, boned, and skinned breasts with a little meat glue sprinkled on (skin side down)

http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u435/johnoakestx/39A89801-CFAF-4B3F-BC80-94E7506AB1AC-6067-000009DBADE81D45.jpg

Scraped skin set aside:

http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u435/johnoakestx/EFF79BE2-823D-4FD2-8C0C-C9977F891DB6-6067-000009DB8D43543D.jpg

If you wonder why scraping is they way to get that perfect bite, here is what came off the back of the skin (nasty but wanted to share the love)

http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u435/johnoakestx/83735921-3432-487F-ADAC-3A6181EC4688-6067-000009DB95165DC8.jpg

Here they are bonded (inverted so the tails are attached to the thick part of the other). Meat glue added to the outside to reattach the skin

http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u435/johnoakestx/832DDCA6-CCDA-4776-A5ED-4AFEB63C3116-6067-000009E0033559F0.jpg

Reattaching the skin:

http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u435/johnoakestx/4F47D45B-11E9-4BC5-BA00-4695B45A5B03-6067-000009DBC7F4C18E.jpg

Wrapping to form sphere and facilitate the bond:

http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u435/johnoakestx/6BBAC612-5D15-4395-A688-BCA0DC6FBC95-6067-000009DBCE6210BF.jpg

We then lightly froze to vac seal (so it didnt get squished in the sealer) for the bath. If you use commercial film, it's wide enough to get a good seal so you can drop that right in the bath without vac sealing.


http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u435/johnoakestx/61B5BEC2-FAC4-4F2B-A25B-6E1A79B56EF3-6067-000009DBD4BB6C0F.jpg

Once out of the bath (4 hrs) she finished with a torch to crisp up the skin


http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u435/johnoakestx/E72B02F2-DAC1-4E58-AF84-50CE9D7BF556-6185-00000CA0F5CA0136.jpg


http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u435/johnoakestx/C7C412C4-4C55-4541-B3F1-3D062868EC8C-6185-00000CA111F64119.jpg

And finally, plated with mashers, Demi, and Brussels sprouts

http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u435/johnoakestx/A88A2732-864E-4BCC-95C0-053CF6C967E3-6185-00000CA1255E9E99.jpg

One of the best home cooked meals I have ever had. Simple ingredients, using modern techniques = awesome food!

I know it's not bbq related but you gotta mix it up once in a while. Even I can only eat so much brisket :becky:

IamMadMan
12-30-2012, 12:29 PM
Looks great, but I would be apprehensive to try it with all the hype about meat glue.

Maybe you can give us the real story on it?

centexsmoker
12-30-2012, 12:46 PM
Looks great, but I would be apprehensive to try it with all the hype about meat glue.

Maybe you can give us the real story on it?


Sure. Transglutaminase (meat glue) is an all natural enzyme found in almost all plants and animals that bond protiens. Your body is full of it and could not live without it. Most of us eat it all the time (deli meat, hot dogs, sausage, chicken nuggets, and in many normal vegetables and plants too). There is absolutely nothing unsafe about using meat glue. The initial outcry was that stores and restaurants were taking scraps and making filet mignon out of it. Thier thought was that gluing the outside of one scrap to the inside of another contaminated the inside of the meat. If this were the case, it would be an accurate statement. However, this is not what it's used for and it's in hundreds of perfectly safe foods you and I eat every day. It is also used for evil (mc rib, chicken mc nuggets come to mind) but it's very common.

landarc
12-30-2012, 04:17 PM
That is an interesting take, and well done. I can see why you had to be stopped and TFJ had to take over :-P

I have no problem with meat glue, it is as natural as blood or meat itself. My biggest issue is that it was being used to re-assemble chunks of meat into other chunks of meat, and then being sold as 'filet' or 'steak' which are meaningless terms. But, it was misleading none the less.

Boshizzle
12-30-2012, 04:27 PM
Looks like a fun cook! My problem with meat glue is, I'm so clumsy I'm afraid I'd inhale the stuff and glue my lungs together. :laugh:

centexsmoker
12-30-2012, 04:27 PM
That is an interesting take, and well done. I can see why you had to be stopped and TFJ had to take over :-P

I have no problem with meat glue, it is as natural as blood or meat itself. My biggest issue is that it was being used to re-assemble chunks of meat into other chunks of meat, and then being sold as 'filet' or 'steak' which are meaningless terms. But, it was misleading none the less.

That was the fear. I don't know that ever really occured. There was an Austrailian "expose" of meat glue where some chef made some janky looking filets and the news lady had this shocked look like it was rampant in the marketplace. yeah, except for all the obvious seams you could plainly see in the filets! If you look at all the youtube meat glue videos people in the comments are all up in arms at people using it like it is this evil additive. They obviously have no idea it's a widely used, natuarlly occuring enzyme that is even in non-processed foods and that if they have ever had a turkey sandwich, they have had meat glue.

it's fun to play with and I can totally see a BBQ team using it for chicken skin. I would for sure if I was a comp guy. Wouldn't think twice about it.

IamMadMan
12-30-2012, 07:12 PM
Sure. Transglutaminase (meat glue) is an all natural enzyme found in almost all plants and animals that bond protiens. Your body is full of it and could not live without it. Most of us eat it all the time (deli meat, hot dogs, sausage, chicken nuggets, and in many normal vegetables and plants too). There is absolutely nothing unsafe about using meat glue. The initial outcry was that stores and restaurants were taking scraps and making filet mignon out of it. Thier thought was that gluing the outside of one scrap to the inside of another contaminated the inside of the meat. If this were the case, it would be an accurate statement. However, this is not what it's used for and it's in hundreds of perfectly safe foods you and I eat every day. It is also used for evil (mc rib, chicken mc nuggets come to mind) but it's very common.


Thanks for debunking the stories I have been given regarding this product.

centexsmoker
12-30-2012, 07:18 PM
Thanks for debunking the stories I have been given regarding this product.

people do get fired up about it but it's everywhere. Sounds like mad science, and i guess it is a little. when you dig into it though, it's just another tool in the tool box :)

Crazy Harry
12-30-2012, 07:49 PM
where can I get some meat glue?

landarc
12-30-2012, 08:43 PM
That was the fear. I don't know that ever really occured. There was an Austrailian "expose" of meat glue where some chef made some janky looking filets and the news lady had this shocked look like it was rampant in the marketplace. yeah, except for all the obvious seams you could plainly see in the filets! If you look at all the youtube meat glue videos people in the comments are all up in arms at people using it like it is this evil additive. They obviously have no idea it's a widely used, natuarlly occuring enzyme that is even in non-processed foods and that if they have ever had a turkey sandwich, they have had meat glue.

it's fun to play with and I can totally see a BBQ team using it for chicken skin. I would for sure if I was a comp guy. Wouldn't think twice about it.
It is quite true, I have both spoken to company reps that do this kind of work and seen the actual cuts. It was not that uncommon. I actually got into it with a butcher, pushing him on the fact that his bacon wrapped filet did not look right.

I do not believe it is an evil additive, and in fact, a couple of friends made a rather cool lobster stuffed tenderloin with it, and you would not have been able to find the seam. I certainly would not hesitate to use it. I even thought it would be fun to mess with it for competition chicken skin. But, I suspect it is not allowed. Although I am not sure they could really tell.

centexsmoker
12-30-2012, 08:52 PM
where can I get some meat glue?

right here: http://www.modernistpantry.com/moo-gloo-rm-transglutaminase.html

centexsmoker
12-30-2012, 09:02 PM
It is quite true, I have both spoken to company reps that do this kind of work and seen the actual cuts. It was not that uncommon. I actually got into it with a butcher, pushing him on the fact that his bacon wrapped filet did not look right.

I do not believe it is an evil additive, and in fact, a couple of friends made a rather cool lobster stuffed tenderloin with it, and you would not have been able to find the seam. I certainly would not hesitate to use it. I even thought it would be fun to mess with it for competition chicken skin. But, I suspect it is not allowed. Although I am not sure they could really tell.

they must be better at it than me. I can see the seams when I do it. Filet seems a good spot to do it though. When you trim a filet, when you get up into the head, it splits into 2 parts. That's where the bacon usually comes in to play (to hold it together to make it look like 1 fillet). Center cut does not need it. I never buy bacon wrapped because I know that's from the head and it has silver skin that runs through the middle. they are always trying to maximize yield with filet and the head is the biggest part. It's a horrible cut of meat though. Full of silver skin and sinew. I bet they use it to stick the bacon to the filet as well.

I think most comps still allow meat glue. I can spot it a mile away on skin though. I actually had it at a restaurant and told my wife that "this skin has been glued back on somehow". It was so thin and crispy- it was awesome. I thought it was corn starch or something like that so I literally googled "meat glue" and voila!

Boshizzle
12-30-2012, 09:37 PM
It’s dangerous to get the powdered enzyme into your lungs because it will react with your lungs just like it does with raw meat. Other than that, it's not a health risk.

But, if you glue together a lot of exterior meat that has some kind of infection like eboli, etc., you need to be careful. The meat product produced is a lot like hamburger in that regard, so only well done is safe to eat.

centexsmoker
12-30-2012, 10:03 PM
Itís dangerous to get the powdered enzyme into your lungs because it will react with your lungs just like it does with raw meat. Other than that, it's not a health risk.

But, if you glue together a lot of exterior meat that has some kind of infection like eboli, etc., you need to be careful. The meat product produced is a lot like hamburger in that regard, so only well done is safe to eat.


you would have to injest a lot in your lungs for it to be an issue. Casual use is not a concern (hmmm, where have I heard that before- I digress).

you are correct that you have to be careful but well done is not the only way to be safe. That's where the sous vide comes in so handy. That chicken was cooked at 147 (way lower than is considered safe for chicken) but for 6 hours. Nothing can live at 147 for 6 hours so it's essentially pasteurized. Same goes for stuff you do with meat glue. I did these short ribs for 5 days (no meat glue but just to prove a point). They were perfectly med rare and perfectly safe after 5 days

http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u435/johnoakestx/f0c25fa4.jpg

so, they do need to be safe, but you can do that with other methods than well done.

fun stuff

martyleach
12-30-2012, 10:37 PM
So, the concensus is that it should be well done because the bacteria on the outer side of the meat could end up getting glued in the middle. That is the concern with beef because we like it rare/med rare and the temp is below 135 and doesn't kill the ugly bugs. That has always been my concern with meat glue. Am I wrong here???

centexsmoker
12-30-2012, 11:16 PM
So, the concensus is that it should be well done because the bacteria on the outer side of the meat could end up getting glued in the middle. That is the concern with beef because we like it rare/med rare and the temp is below 135 and doesn't kill the ugly bugs. That has always been my concern with meat glue. Am I wrong here???

Marty- you are correct if you use traditional cooking methods. I cooked those short ribs (again, not meat glued but at 132 for a week in a SV and would be totally safe with meat glue). You can do the same with the chicken I did.

I use meat glue a lot to bond bacon/prosciutto to whole chicken or whole pork tenderloin and that does not really apply since those are cured, smoked and stay on the outside of the whole muscle.

i"ll dig up some pics

landarc
12-30-2012, 11:22 PM
If you wash the meat, you remove the risk of contamination. In Japan, meat is normally washed prior to use, and they often eat the meat rare. That being said, if you have a real sous vide cooker, if you cooked it at 130F for long enough, the meat is pasteurized and does not present a risk.

All that being said, unless you are doing something exceptional, we can usually get great cuts of meat, so there is little need to use meat glue at home. Unless you want to, in which case, it really doesn't present a risk.

JohnHB
12-31-2012, 09:17 PM
One needs to understand how to pasteurize. Meat can be pasteurised at temperatures below 135. Have a look at table 5.1 in link below:


http://www.douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html#Table_5.1

IamMadMan
12-31-2012, 09:51 PM
where can I get some meat glue?

Also Amazon $12.99

martyleach
12-31-2012, 10:25 PM
That is all great but I have not had Sous Vide that my family or I liked too much. It is very tender and tasty but the meat has been kinda mushy. I /we like it to chew like meat....That being said, we have only had beef, no chicken.

JohnHB
01-01-2013, 12:17 AM
So, the concensus is that it should be well done because the bacteria on the outer side of the meat could end up getting glued in the middle. That is the concern with beef because we like it rare/med rare and the temp is below 135 and doesn't kill the ugly bugs. That has always been my concern with meat glue. Am I wrong here???

Yes you are wrong. Meat can be pasteurised at less than 135. The topic of pasteurisation is complex but table 5.1 in the link below provides a good guide to pasteurisation.

http://www.douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html#Table_5.1