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McEvoy AZ
09-29-2012, 06:20 AM
If I listen to most people in here the flavor profile in brisket is not as important as how moist you can have your brisket come out. With this it seems I have the results I have seen in pictures or even in a few resturaunts I have tried. I am asking the brethren for some tips that can improve how moist my brisket finishes.

fivelombardis
09-29-2012, 06:37 AM
Just a few things really:

+ DO NOT overcook it...pull when it reaches the optimal temp.

+ cook at a nice and steady temp.

+ try to get your briskets up to about room temp before you slap them in the pit.

+ wrap in foil/butcher paper after a few hours in the smoke.

+ let it rest in an old ice chest at least 40 mins-1 hour before slicing into it!

+ a lot of guys in here swear by injecting and/or mopping their briskets before and during the cook.

+ lastly, and most sadly, the majority of the time it depends on the quality/grade of the brisket you purchased. I say sadly because many times when you're really craving brisket, you buy what you can find and sometimes those packers lack a lot to be desired.



Good luck.

GreenDrake
09-29-2012, 08:34 AM
I believe people over think their brisket. It's not a temp thing when done, but rather a probe for butter thing. Wrap at 165 and rest when butter tender. Basic is better, don't really need to over trim or inject or take the fat cap down to nothing. I learned the expensive way by trying to do too much to the meat.

Teamfour
09-29-2012, 08:38 AM
If I listen to most people in here the flavor profile in brisket is not as important as how moist you can have your brisket come out.

I have to disagree to some extent. From a competition standpoint, and at least in my house, I want brisket to taste like beef. If I have a juicy slice that tastes like maple syrup injection then I won't like it. On the flip side, a beefy tasting piece of shoe leather won't work. So I would say flavor profile and moistness are equal.

Bludawg
09-29-2012, 10:12 AM
I cook brisket at 275 - 325 until probe tender. I don't wrap, anything below Choice I inject with a cup of canolla oil. I don't wrap or put into a cooler, I put it on a rack with a drip pan under it and tent it with foil when the IT drops into the 140's its ready to serve.
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae164/Bludawg51/DSCF0017.jpg
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae164/Bludawg51/DSCF0019.jpg

HickoryJ
09-29-2012, 10:29 AM
I cook brisket at 275 - 325 until probe tender. I don't wrap, anything below Choice I inject with a cup of canolla oil. I don't wrap or put into a cooler, I put it on a rack with a drip pan under it and tent it with foil when the IT drops into the 140's its ready to serve.do u do anything with the drippings?

Tool SmokinBBQ
09-29-2012, 11:46 AM
do u do anything with the drippings?

I like to collect the drippings and let them rest in the fridge. It makes it super easy to skim the fat off and use the remaining drippings for a BBQ sauce or mop recipe. :thumb:

Bludawg
09-29-2012, 02:36 PM
do u do anything with the drippings?I skim of the fat and dredge the slices in the liquid love.

Pitmaster T
09-29-2012, 02:52 PM
On this advice...

"Just a few things really:

+ DO NOT overcook it...pull when it reaches the optimal temp.

LOL which can be anywhere from 175 to 205. So by all means, make sure you look on the wrapper to see exactly what they temp is.

+ cook at a nice and steady temp.

The Nice temp.... LOL Not too nice... or all you'll absorb is smoke, and not too aggressive, or you will burn your bridges.... like the guy in Roadhouse says... "Just be Nice."

+ try to get your briskets up to about room temp before you slap them in the pit.

Irrelevant see this...

Pitmaster T's Quickies - Basics of Brisket (Official Nubee) - YouTube


Note the care I take in placement of the brisket at 1:35

+ wrap in foil/butcher paper after a few hours in the smoke.

after what? No way... he did not say that

+ let it rest in an old ice chest at least 40 mins-1 hour before slicing into it!

and we all know who gets it to jiggle right?

+ a lot of guys in here swear by injecting and/or mopping their briskets before and during the cook.

Please... lots of people swear BECAUSE they mopped their sad Assed brisket

+ lastly, and most sadly, the majority of the time it depends on the quality/grade of the brisket you purchased. I say sadly because many times when you're really craving brisket, you buy what you can find and sometimes those packers lack a lot to be desired.

Hah.... give me a select cut, learn on that and after you burn your first quality cut you will be ready.

Good luck."

Comment

landarc
09-29-2012, 03:03 PM
I am finding I have better success with mositure in my brisket cooks, when I cook hotter. I have done selects and choice packers this year at a higher temperature (280F to 300F) and both wrapped or not. The meat has been moist more consistently, I believe this is due to the higher heat.

I do not bother with temperature of meat going onto the cooker. Nor do I normally inject or otherwise play with the meat. I do remove as much hard fat as I can until I lose interest, thus there is usually a 1/8 to 1/4 inch thick fat cap, sometimes more, or less, or both.

I have been wrapping with butcher paper this year, and I have no idea if it matters, but, I like the results so far, so I keep doing it. The bark, color and moisture have been excellent.

I am not convinced that meat grade matters, as the brisket is not graded on it's own, it is graded relative to the carcass, so each brisket is it's own puzzle. Unlike something like Wagyu, which is graded on each cut, most U.S. packers are graded as a carcass, I have had some excellent select packers this year.

McEvoy AZ
09-29-2012, 04:24 PM
I recently had someone tell me they slice their brisket right on the smoker, dredge the slices in it's own juices and then wrap and hold. Is this possible you can get a very moist brisket slice this way. I have always just held for a hour to four hours before slicing. Just wanted to know if anyone has tied this and if so did it work, before I ruin a brisket.

landarc
09-29-2012, 04:31 PM
You will get wet brisket that way, not moist, wet.

well, that was cryptic, the reality is, that when a brisket is first done cooking, it has a lot of fluid heated to a high temperature. As you let the meat rest, the temperature comes down and the fluid equalizes with the surrounding meat. It allows you to slice more easily, the fiber of the meat are more stable and the moisture is cooled to a point it will stay in the meat fibers better. You are better off resting at least an hour, and either wrapping or doing what Bludawg says will work as well. Cutting immediately and running through the moisture that leaked out will just leave the meat wet on the outside.

McEvoy AZ
09-29-2012, 05:02 PM
I think I know what you mean about wet as I have done something like this with pork in a comp before. Although I did place 3rd overall, one judge made a comment that it was wet and I knew what he ment. At the same time I thought maybe if I just toned it back just a little it would have been perfect. I know that brisket is different then my pork slices, but when wet was mentioned it seemed to be what I visioned.

Now how about spritzing or mopping, have tried that before with not much luck. What about injection, it seams that maybe that has helped when I have tried, but like most of the breathern I would not really want to change the flavor so much, but if it makes a moist product then by al means I will do it.

I have cooked plenty of briskest, but just need that one or two clues that takes my brisket over the top. Here is some of the things I have been doing.

1. Buying choise RD 13 LBS briskest with as loose as possible totes.

2. Trim to 1/4" fat cap, trim blue skin and fatty spots and almost trim the point from the flat( around 3/4 of the way thru.

3. I make a beef boulion paste that I slather on to a right out of the fridge or cooler brisket. I cover with a rub that has little to no suger then right on to a 250 degree WSM.

4. I let the brisket cook for hours before I look at it. I use the scratch test to tell if the bark has set, before wrapping in tin foil. That is usually around 165 degrees.

5. I try to cook just under what I would consider fork tender, if my brisket is going to hold in a camero at a comp that it will share with hot pork. At home I try to shoot for fork tender.(usually between 205 to 210 degrees)

I think my exact ingredients and wood choice is irellivent for this conversation, but the change lately in ingredients have lately helped me with a better smoke ring.

Now with what I have laid out, is there anything that can help me take my brisket over the top being moist?

McEvoy AZ
09-29-2012, 05:08 PM
Five I do thank you for your imput, and I do respect other opinions, even if they are argumentative. I believe in helping as much as I can if I can help someone cook a great item. It's just good BBQ karma. This is what this forum seems to be about, breathern helping breathern to achiev the best possible BBQ.

Bludawg
09-29-2012, 05:13 PM
I think I know what you mean about wet as I have done something like this with pork in a comp before. Although I did place 3rd overall, one judge made a comment that it was wet and I knew what he ment. At the same time I thought maybe if I just toned it back just a little it would have been perfect. I know that brisket is different then my pork slices, but when wet was mentioned it seemed to be what I visioned.

Now how about spritzing or mopping, have tried that before with not much luck. What about injection, it seams that maybe that has helped when I have tried, but like most of the breathern I would not really want to change the flavor so much, but if it makes a moist product then by al means I will do it.

I have cooked plenty of briskest, but just need that one or two clues that takes my brisket over the top. Here is some of the things I have been doing.

1. Buying choise RD 13 LBS briskest with as loose as possible totes.

2. Trim to 1/4" fat cap, trim blue skin and fatty spots and almost trim the point from the flat( around 3/4 of the way thru.

3. I make a beef boulion paste that I slather on to a right out of the fridge or cooler brisket. I cover with a rub that has little to no suger then right on to a 250 degree WSM.

4. I let the brisket cook for hours before I look at it. I use the scratch test to tell if the bark has set, before wrapping in tin foil. That is usually around 165 degrees.

5. I try to cook just under what I would consider fork tender, if my brisket is going to hold in a camero at a comp that it will share with hot pork. At home I try to shoot for fork tender.(usually between 205 to 210 degrees)

I think my exact ingredients and wood choice is irellivent for this conversation, but the change lately in ingredients have lately helped me with a better smoke ring.

Now with what I have laid out, is there anything that can help me take my brisket over the top being moist?
Cook it hotter 275+ no need to wrap in foil I can't speak to butcher paper as I haven't fully vetted it. At 275 + there is no stall. Forget meat temp probe tender in the point & flat is winner winner brisket dinner.

McEvoy AZ
09-29-2012, 06:06 PM
Interesting, from a science point a view I don't get, not wrapping the brisket in foil. Any one that agrees I should not wrap please help me understand why. I would think by using the Texas Crutch it would keep the moist goodness basting your brisket.

Now hotter does make some sence to me, as when making jerky you cook at very low temps. Also I really like the texture of my ribs much better at a 275 cook rather then a 250 or under cook. So cooking the brisket faster help prevent all the juice from cooking out. I can buy that and will give it a try.

Now at comps I have thought maybe I don't know what I am doing with holding my brisket. Like I have said in the past, I try to shoot just under fork tender so it does not over cook in the cambro. I also now am trying to let the brisket get to 170 before I put it in the cambro. Because I one have one cambro to use I have to put my other meats in so I am afraid the heat from the other meats will over cook my brisket. Can any one help me here?

Bludawg
09-29-2012, 06:28 PM
Put it in a pan open in the cambro if you wrap it it will keep cooking. At home I tent with foil and let it rest on the counter until the IT drops into the 140's. When you wrap during the rest( holding) period as I said it will continue to cook depending on how hot it is when your doing your box if to hot it hasn't had a chance to relax you will loose moisture when you cut it.
If it is temp form the other meat your worried about that is an easy fix. Cook the brisket to probe tender and tent it on the table put your thermo in and set the alarm to go off when the temp drops to 160 the put it in the cambro.

McEvoy AZ
09-29-2012, 06:55 PM
Thanks Bludawg, I will do.

Now can some one tell me the advantage to not wrapping the brisket once the bark sets. I would think by then you would want to keep smoke off the meat?

JS-TX
09-29-2012, 07:30 PM
I was gonna make a comment about post #2, but PT pretty much summed up what was on my mind. Where do people get this stuff from? Never mind, I know. The farking internet.

To include this place.

While many may say this guy's post wasn't spot on, he had some good points. IMO this forum needs to stop anointing certain individuals as "the authority" of certain topics. Yes, they have lots of experience, offer good advice and are great pitmasters.. but IMO it's getting out of hand when we start blasting people when they give their opinion/advice. It's really not necessary.

JS-TX
09-29-2012, 07:31 PM
Thanks Bludawg, I will do.

Now can some one tell me the advantage to not wrapping the brisket once the bark sets. I would think by then you would want to keep smoke off the meat?

The bark doesn't turn to mush and you save yourself the trouble of breaking out the foil.

Tool SmokinBBQ
09-29-2012, 07:32 PM
Thanks Bludawg, I will do.

Now can some one tell me the advantage to not wrapping the brisket once the bark sets. I would think by then you would want to keep smoke off the meat?

When meat reaches around 140 degrees it will stop absorbing smoke. On the other hand, I know you'll end up with bitter bark if it takes on too much smoke.
I prefer to not wrap mine until I pull it from the smoker. I only put enough hardwood in with my lump to last about half the cook. I like the nice crunch you get on the bark. It's just my opinion but I find the bark gets soggy whenever I've had brisket that's been wrapped. Honestly you won't know which method you'll like until you've tried each for yourself. :cool:

landarc
09-29-2012, 08:18 PM
There is no benefit, just differences, between wrapping and not wrapping. There are some here who are adamant against wrapping, others who won't do without. I will do either method, and have done all three successfully.

You do not want to be rolling a lot of smoke after the first couple of hours, but, that is a matter of taste as well. I don't like a real strong smoke on my meats, I prefer it be a part of an overall flavor, others want a stronger smoke flavor. A lot of this ends up being experience.

I happen to prefer the bark of a paper wrapped brisket for now. But, I am not against cooking without wrapping, especially if I am going to be around 250F for the cook.

Tool SmokinBBQ
09-29-2012, 09:45 PM
To include this place.

While many may say this guy's post wasn't spot on, he had some good points. IMO this forum needs to stop anointing certain individuals as "the authority" of certain topics. Yes, they have lots of experience, offer good advice and are great pitmasters.. but IMO it's getting out of hand when we start blasting people when they give their opinion/advice. It's really not necessary.

Agreed. I haven't been here for long. But after having read the welcome and rules section of this forum, I'm shocked to have already have seen this kind of belittling of another member's advice on technique.


"We are a lighthearted, respectful bunch, with a common passion. BBQ. But our board is more than a knowledge base, its a place to hang out, a community."

*shrug*

Anyways, it looks like that brisket turned out GREAT! :thumbup:

El Ropo
09-29-2012, 09:47 PM
When meat reaches around 140 degrees it will stop absorbing smoke. . :cool:

A fine example.

Bludawg
09-29-2012, 09:59 PM
When meat reaches around 140 degrees it will stop absorbing smoke. On the other hand, I know you'll end up with bitter bark if it takes on too much smoke.
I prefer to not wrap mine until I pull it from the smoker. I only put enough hardwood in with my lump to last about half the cook. I like the nice crunch you get on the bark. It's just my opinion but I find the bark gets soggy whenever I've had brisket that's been wrapped. Honestly you won't know which method you'll like until you've tried each for yourself. :cool:That is a bit of bad information. The Smoke ring stops forming when the surface temp reaches 140 the meat will continue to adsorb smoke as long as it is on the pit. This is a misconception that folks get farked up all the time. If you don't believe me start one out wrapped in foil and put the temp probe in 1/2" when the temp his 140 remove the foil and continue the cook applying smoke it will open your eyes smoky meat and no smoke ring.

Boshizzle
09-29-2012, 10:03 PM
Wrapped in foil after about two hours in smoke. Great bark.

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=450&pictureid=6491

You need to settle on a cooking method. There are many methods that call for wrapping and others that don't. Both can give you a good product. Just don't start mixing and matching methods together. That's a path to failure.

El Ropo
09-29-2012, 10:23 PM
2 hours at 325-350 is a lot different than 2 hours at warming meat to death temps. I think this point is missed.

Boshizzle
09-29-2012, 10:27 PM
Mine was cooked for two hours at 275* then wrapped for about another 2.5 hours.

Tool SmokinBBQ
09-30-2012, 12:12 AM
That is a bit of bad information. The Smoke ring stops forming when the surface temp reaches 140 the meat will continue to adsorb smoke as long as it is on the pit. This is a misconception that folks get farked up all the time. If you don't believe me start one out wrapped in foil and put the temp probe in 1/2" when the temp his 140 remove the foil and continue the cook applying smoke it will open your eyes smoky meat and no smoke ring.

Yes, thank you for pointing that out - I should have been more specific...

Ron_L
09-30-2012, 08:11 AM
Mod Note:

Stop bickering like children! Everyone is allowed to express their opinion, regardless of how long they have been here. Tenure on the forum does not necessarily equal BBQ knowledge or experience! As stated, there are many different way to get to the end result of good BBQ. We all have something to contribute. Some may say it in a direct manner and others may be gentler about it, but it is not personal when someone posts an opinion or advice that is different than yours. If you feel that it is worth discussing do it in a mature, polite manner and you'll probably get a response with a similar tone.

thillin
09-30-2012, 12:18 PM
I cook hot & fast and wrap with foil because it makes me the $. :thumb:

Q-Dat
09-30-2012, 12:26 PM
That is a bit of bad information. The Smoke ring stops forming when the surface temp reaches 140 the meat will continue to adsorb smoke as long as it is on the pit. This is a misconception that folks get farked up all the time. If you don't believe me start one out wrapped in foil and put the temp probe in 1/2" when the temp his 140 remove the foil and continue the cook applying smoke it will open your eyes smoky meat and no smoke ring.

I am glad I'm not the only one that believes the old meat stops absorbing smoke philosophy. At his class someone asked Paul Kirk about that very thing. He said that whenever he hears someone say that, he says "prove it".

A perfect example is the "burnt ends" that I make for comps. After the bark sets i cube the point and put them in a covered pan to cook in their own juice and fat until they are almost falling apart. Then I put them back on the grate to re set the bark and then set a sauce on top if that. If I add ANY smoke wood to the coals during this stage, the nuggets will be ridiculously smoky.

El Ropo
09-30-2012, 01:22 PM
Smoke ring color stops developing around 140, smoke flavor never stops. A common misunderstanding.

Seen some high profile websites with the same misinformation. If it was posted on the internet it must be true. :biggrin1:

BobBrisket
09-30-2012, 02:51 PM
Wrapped in foil after about two hours in smoke. Great bark.

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=450&pictureid=6491

You need to settle on a cooking method. There are many methods that call for wrapping and others that don't. Both can give you a good product. Just don't start mixing and matching methods together. That's a path to failure.

I'll disagree here a little bit. I think that when we look at the methods we use, sometimes there is mixing and matching going on and it helps us create a method that is best for our personal needs. If one goes and researches this forum close enough, you will notice that years back, you were ridiculed for using FOIL at all. Back then low and slow was the ONLY way to cook. Then hot and fast came in. Then we are seeing butcher paper. Who knows what is next. Some will say using foil or paper at all is not necessary. Some like a few hours of smoke, some leave em in smoke for the entire cook. In the end, you really do need to pick and choose from one method or another and create your own. This comes down to rubs, injections, etc. I can tell you that my own method has evolved over time. I can now see the benefits of a simple rub of just salt and pepper. Do I still like to add powders and full on rubs, yes. I will probably no longer use low and slow. I can't see the benfits of cooking for MORE hours when I can get the same results with higher heat and less time. SR's are nice to look at, but it's not a big deal for me if there is one or not. I'd rather have a killer bark. Your NON MEAT(rub) flavor should come from the bark, BUT there is a lot to be said about the MEAT(Brisket) flavor. And the beauty of the flat and point is that you get a different MEAT flavor from each. I know the flat is prized, but I'll take brisket point ANYDAY!! I love the flavor of a brisket smoked for the duration in heavy smoke, my wife, not so much. My kids, they just know it's bbq and eat it either way. I've found a nice mid ground which gives me the smoke flavor I like, and the flavor my wife will enjoy as well. I will say that I've learned that briskets ARE NOT all the same. I still under or over cook some. That's the one thing I'm now trying to learn is cook each one individually and learn how to read that one brisket. You can kinda fix and under or over cooked brisket, but the idea is to learn when it's REALLY done. The other problem is that I don't cook them often enough to give dead on info. There are members here that have cooked a lifetime of briskets and have the knowledge to give specifics down the smallest detail. I've learned a GREAT deal from their advice and experience. Even then, you won't really learn it yourself unless you practice and log what you have done with one cook and what your results were. From there, you can adjust one way or the other.
Bob

Mattman
09-30-2012, 02:58 PM
Bob Brisket is the Brisket Whisperer, a new show coming to the Food Network this fall. 8-)

In all seriousness, you are right Bob. Nice summary!

Ron_L
09-30-2012, 04:08 PM
Mod Note:

This is ridiculous! STOP THE BICKERING and STAY ON TOPIC!

BobBrisket
09-30-2012, 04:24 PM
Thanks for the extra work. Scrub on the way.

THREAD STERILIZATION ON THE WAY!

BobBrisket
09-30-2012, 05:13 PM
FARK!!! Where do I start? It's takes quite a bit to make me reach my BS threshold. But it's been accomplished. BTW Ron's, Bull's, etc that have been babysitting this thread since yesterday have reached their limits as well. But here it goes. Thread scrubbed. OT chit scrubbed. I got my panties bunched up chit scrubbed. Subtle jabs and pokes SCRUBBED! Some fun, mine included, SCRUBBED.

Some suggestions:
1. If you don't like someone, use the "IGNORE" option. Just click their user id and it pops up. (I'll give you step by step instructions if you need them.)
2. If you don't want to use the "Ignore" option, then DON'T read their posts.
3. GROW A THICKER SKIN!
4. Number of years as a member does not get you special attention. Sorry, but it does NOT! I've seen NEW members offer more to the forum in ONE post than members who have been here for years, lurkers or whatever. If you have thin skin, go back to #1 or #2. Also, keep in mind that your history (good or bad) is documented all over this forum in its achives. Even back to Day 1. While I may not know what your history was prior to when I joined, the Senior Mods and Phil do!
5. When you have been told to cut your chit out, cut your chit out. Don't keep jabbing someone. THAT chit makes more work for us.
6. This is why we really farking hate having to scrub a thread AFTER REPEATED MOD NOTES, because it's work. It takes time out of our day, Sunday, family time etc to change your farking diapers. Plus, a scrubbing really screws up a thread and it's never the same after that. BUT, if it needs to be done, then it needs to be done. You guys know me, I don't mince my words. Even in PM exchanges I don't mince my words. NOW, it stays on topic, if you want to push the envelope, be my guest, this thread has reached the 3 Post Rule, at this point, Phil takes over and if a Ban is necessary, he will hand it out. I'm going to enjoy what is left of my Sunday. Going to grill and hang out in the backyard and enjoy our great Southwest Texas weather with my family. You decide where you want to go from here on out or where you may NOT want to go.

MOD TEAM

charray
09-30-2012, 05:28 PM
Need additional opinions on the following points - not that this will bring me clarification, but one can hope.

1. I have been under the impression that smoke is no longer absorbed (smoke ring) after 4 hours because the meats viscosity (pores) closes up. I can easily accept that it's not 4 hours but a temp of 140º.

2. That smoke after this time really just adds carbon to the outside which can be bitter besides a great inducer of belching and indigestion.

3. After 4 hours (now I'm thinking 140º) you might as well go to higher temps to finish your cook. I'm not implying north of 300º on hunks, but am on steaks, etc.

4. That additional smoke can be gleamed once you glaze because it's not the meat but the glaze that's absorbing the smoke flavor.

Thanks in advance for logical, experienced... do I dare say it - scientific feedback.

landarc
09-30-2012, 05:38 PM
Don't confuse smoke ring with smoke flavor, they are different. The smoke ring develops early in the cook. There are some that feel that smoke flavor continues to be absorbed by the meat well into, or all the way through a cook. I have not really ever thought to test this, as I prefer a lighter smoke flavor, so after 2 to 3 hours, my charcoal will have no more wood in it.

Carbon occurs on the surface of the meat when the fire is not burning correctly, which releases creosote and other chemicals into the smoke. This creates the bitter flavor and other undesirable traits in the meat. Regardless of whether you are wanting more or less smoke, using wood throughout of switching to coals, you want a clean fire. If you have a small clean hot fire in any cooker, than the smoke will be clean and the meat will taste good. A large snuffy fire, or a poorly burning fire will give you the bad smoke.

Bludawg
09-30-2012, 06:23 PM
As I explained some where on here today: Foil up a brisket and put a temp probe into the meat 1/2" and cook to 140 remove the Farking Foil add some wood and finish the cook. It will be nicely smoked with no ring. Cook a chunk of critter in the oven chill it over night, fire up the pit toss on some wood and put the cold meat on to warm it up to 160 or so it will have a smoke ring and a nice flavor. There lies your scientific proof.I know the out come.

charray
09-30-2012, 06:35 PM
As I explained some where on here today: Foil up a brisket and put a temp probe into the meat 1/2" and cook to 140 remove the Farking Foil add some wood and finish the cook. It will be nicely smoked with no ring. Cook a chunk of critter in the oven chill it over night, fire up the pit toss on some wood and put the cold meat on to warm it up to 160 or so it will have a smoke ring and a nice flavor. There lies your scientific proof.I know the out come.

So if I understand you correctly, regardless of whether a piece of is meat is cooked or not, put it on and it will develop a smoke ring up to 140º. After 140º no smoke ring but the meat will continue to absorb smoke flavor, regardless of the length or temp of the cook?

McEvoy AZ
09-30-2012, 08:14 PM
One of the things I have done to induce a smoke ring was pull a brisket from a cold source right to the smoker. Now I have been told on here that some people advise to let the meat come to room temp before putting on the smoker. Now since I have changed to this technique I have had a nice smoke ring. Now it could be I am adding more celery salt or the fact I have used Butchers brisket injection.i cook on WSMs so this might be why I got away from cooking hotter and faster, but I think this will be my new method.
I watched the local news this morning where they have a chef you can email questions to. It was quite interesting the question that was answered today. The question was that the person said when ever he eats chicken at a Chinese resturant over chow mien the chicken is always the juiciest chicken no matter which Chinese resturant he eats at. The chef said that the meat is most likely marinated, but the fact it is cooked to temp very fast in a wok was most likely why he experiences this chicken always being moist. This being said, cooking hot and fast with brisket makes a lot of sence.

Boshizzle
09-30-2012, 08:21 PM
I'll disagree here a little bit. I think that when we look at the methods we use, sometimes there is mixing and matching going on and it helps us create a method that is best for our personal needs. If one goes and researches this forum close enough, you will notice that years back, you were ridiculed for using FOIL at all. Back then low and slow was the ONLY way to cook. Then hot and fast came in. Then we are seeing butcher paper. Who knows what is next. Some will say using foil or paper at all is not necessary. Some like a few hours of smoke, some leave em in smoke for the entire cook. In the end, you really do need to pick and choose from one method or another and create your own. This comes down to rubs, injections, etc. I can tell you that my own method has evolved over time. I can now see the benefits of a simple rub of just salt and pepper. Do I still like to add powders and full on rubs, yes. I will probably no longer use low and slow. I can't see the benfits of cooking for MORE hours when I can get the same results with higher heat and less time. SR's are nice to look at, but it's not a big deal for me if there is one or not. I'd rather have a killer bark. Your NON MEAT(rub) flavor should come from the bark, BUT there is a lot to be said about the MEAT(Brisket) flavor. And the beauty of the flat and point is that you get a different MEAT flavor from each. I know the flat is prized, but I'll take brisket point ANYDAY!! I love the flavor of a brisket smoked for the duration in heavy smoke, my wife, not so much. My kids, they just know it's bbq and eat it either way. I've found a nice mid ground which gives me the smoke flavor I like, and the flavor my wife will enjoy as well. I will say that I've learned that briskets ARE NOT all the same. I still under or over cook some. That's the one thing I'm now trying to learn is cook each one individually and learn how to read that one brisket. You can kinda fix and under or over cooked brisket, but the idea is to learn when it's REALLY done. The other problem is that I don't cook them often enough to give dead on info. There are members here that have cooked a lifetime of briskets and have the knowledge to give specifics down the smallest detail. I've learned a GREAT deal from their advice and experience. Even then, you won't really learn it yourself unless you practice and log what you have done with one cook and what your results were. From there, you can adjust one way or the other.
Bob

Thanks for the clarification, bro. And, I agree generally speaking.

My advice was for people who are just beginning the journey. I have seen too many people here pick and choose different portions of different methods during their first few cooks and fail miserably wondering what they did wrong. I think they should follow a proven method until they are comfortable with it and then branch out trying different things once they have more experience under their belts so they can make adjustments with a better chance of fending off disaster.

BBQchef33
09-30-2012, 08:46 PM
FARK!!! Where do I start? It's takes quite a bit to make me reach my BS threshold. But it's been accomplished. BTW Ron's, Bull's, etc that have been babysitting this thread since yesterday have reached their limits as well. But here it goes. Thread scrubbed. OT chit scrubbed. I got my panties bunched up chit scrubbed. Subtle jabs and pokes SCRUBBED! Some fun, mine included, SCRUBBED.

Some suggestions:
1. If you don't like someone, use the "IGNORE" option. Just click their user id and it pops up. (I'll give you step by step instructions if you need them.)
2. If you don't want to use the "Ignore" option, then DON'T read their posts.
3. GROW A THICKER SKIN!
4. Number of years as a member does not get you special attention. Sorry, but it does NOT! I've seen NEW members offer more to the forum in ONE post than members who have been here for years, lurkers or whatever. If you have thin skin, go back to #1 or #2. Also, keep in mind that your history (good or bad) is documented all over this forum in its achives. Even back to Day 1. While I may not know what your history was prior to when I joined, the Senior Mods and Phil do!
5. When you have been told to cut your chit out, cut your chit out. Don't keep jabbing someone. THAT chit makes more work for us.
6. This is why we really farking hate having to scrub a thread AFTER REPEATED MOD NOTES, because it's work. It takes time out of our day, Sunday, family time etc to change your farking diapers. Plus, a scrubbing really screws up a thread and it's never the same after that. BUT, if it needs to be done, then it needs to be done. You guys know me, I don't mince my words. Even in PM exchanges I don't mince my words. NOW, it stays on topic, if you want to push the envelope, be my guest, this thread has reached the 3 Post Rule, at this point, Phil takes over and if a Ban is necessary, he will hand it out. I'm going to enjoy what is left of my Sunday. Going to grill and hang out in the backyard and enjoy our great Southwest Texas weather with my family. You decide where you want to go from here on out or where you may NOT want to go.

MOD TEAM


To the innocent bystanders that were being productive in this thread, sorry for the following rant, but i just got to a real computer and typing this on my phone would have been pretty cryptic in its result.


ive been offline all day and a good part of yesterday getting for the American Royal without time to deal with this crap.. i see the thread has gotten back on track, and im a little late to the game, but i need to add something... Just in case someone is considering starting up again.

its pretty pathetic that some of you choose to ignore repeated moderator warnings. To those involved in this chit, WTF makes any of you think its ok to ignore the mods, piss on our shoes and drag us into this crap because you cant have a civil conversation without taunting each other and crapping in each others cheerio. Its not right, its not fair and its unacceptable that we have to take time away from our lives to referee childish crap like this coming from grown adults..

Like Bob said, if you dont like it, dont read it, if you disagree, state your case like a mature adult and offer alternatives,without belittling others techniques.. that crap is getting old REAL FAST, and get it thru your thick farking skulls that your way is NOT the only way.. If you honestly believe it is.... NEWS FLASH...You're farking wrong, get over yourselves. I dont give a crap if your Jesus H. Brisket, there is someone on this planet that can do it better and badder.. and it can be a newcomer that just hit the BBQ scene.. think not? Too bad.. shut up and continue to learn from others WHILE you teach what you know as well...

so heres one more warning to enforce what bob said... next one to chit stir, bitch, instigate or digress to the behavior of a 6 year old will be locked out for 7 days. The next one to follow goes to 30 days, then 60...

BobBrisket
09-30-2012, 11:23 PM
Bump!

Pitmaster T
10-01-2012, 06:34 AM
Totally agree with Shizzle and have been saying it for years. Don't mix and match until you KNOW why you are doing what you are doing. I just saw a guy say he likes to start his brisket meat side down to the fire BECAUSE he likes to "char up the meat side" a bit because that's what he likes. Bamn! Perfect, a reason for doing something.

Yet on the flip side is the guy who does stuff just because he read it here, then reads and uses another tip from someone else not intended to be used together... and then does NOT know why he is doing it other than he saw it on here or elsewhere. Then the guy may not like his results and you have to pick apart his tackle box to figure out what went wrong.

Don't do chit unless you know why you are doing it. The guy that uses the foil BECAUSE he wants to speed it up and or protect the color... bam! A reason. The guy that uses butcher paper because he likes the bark better... Bamn! A reason... but some guy in Kansas may not like it that way. The guy that injects his briskets with the old smokey, collagen soaked drippings of his last brisket doing so because he likes the results.. Bamn... a reason. The guy that mixes Olive oil and Popcorn butter (actually Coconut oil enhanced with fake butter flavor) and popcorn salt in his final oil dunk before cooking his Chris Lilly style chicken does it because of the richness of flavor....bamn, he does it for a reason. The Guy that splits a brisket, cuts it in such a way that BOTH sides of the brisket have a fat cap by inverting the flat in such a way its covered by the inner fat that once was within.. bamn.. a reason... a bound double sided brisket...

As far as people doing it better and badder... they will only continue to do so until they meet with the vat of liquid nitrogen or a frozen projectile made from the body of the Franklin BBQ Guy.

charray
10-01-2012, 09:54 AM
As far as people doing it better and badder... they will only continue to do so until they meet with the vat of liquid nitrogen or a frozen projectile made from the body of the Franklin BBQ Guy.


:clap::crazy::clap:

Arlin_MacRae
10-01-2012, 12:15 PM
"Jesus H Brisket"? BAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!