Any Stir Fry Masters Available?

[tortaboy]

Recently bought a big ole heavy duty Wok when I bought my Spyder for my Big Green Egg. I wanna give it a try tomorrow evening because today, I'm still eating this
http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=143557

I want to marinade my chicken overnight.

I'm also going to be using corn starch for the first time.

So...here's my question.

Should I just marinade the chicken as normal and dip the pieces in corn starch tomorrow night before cooking?

Or

Should I dip the chicken the pieces in corn starch today, and then marinade all day?

Which should I do and why? Novice Stir Fry guy needs to learn.

[backyardchef]

You don't need to dip in cornstarch at all. But, if you want to use it to thicken your dish, dilute it one-to-one or so with cold water, rice wine or sherry, broth or reserved, unused marinade, etc... and add it by the teaspoon full a minute or so before you are done with the dish. Bring it to a boil (to thicken) and serve. Don't use too much, if you are not familiar with cornstarch as thickener, because it will get thicker as it cools and turn slightly gloppy if you use too much. A little goes far. Feel free to fire any other questions you have....


You can also add cornstarch into your marinade. That is another way to go.

[tortaboy]

You don't need to dip in cornstarch at all. But, if you want to use it to thicken your dish, dilute it one-to-one or so with cold water, rice wine or sherry, broth or reserved, unused marinade, etc... and add it by the teaspoon full a minute or so before you are done with the dish. Bring it to a boil (to thicken) and serve. Don't use too much, if you are not familiar with cornstarch as thickener, because it will get thicker as it cools and turn slightly gloppy if you use too much. A little goes far. Feel free to fire any other questions you have....


You can also add cornstarch into your marinade. That is another way to go.

Thanks for the comments. Very helpful!

How would you do it? Cornstarch at very end of cook or in the marinade?

[backyardchef]

Probably at the end for this dish-- no need to add cstarch now. In many cases, these types of dishes marinate more briefly (1/2 hour), since the sauces that pull them together are so flavorful and the pieces are cut so small. In the case of a quick marinade, the starch is in the marinade, which might become the sauce at the end. Not a major cross contamination issue since that sauce will ultimately be boiled for a few minutes.

[Stoke&Smoke]

Kind of depends on what you want the cornstarch to do. Chicken can be lightly "floured" in either corn starch or rice flour, and then fried in a little peanut oil for a lightly crispy outside. But if you just want the cornstarch as a thickener, make a slurry with a little (no more than a TBSP) cornstarch and some water. Then if you have some liquid in your wok (stock for example) you can thicken it by adding just a little of the slurry at a time until it's the consistency you're looking for. If you aren't planning on frying the chicken in oil (which could be done in the wok) than do what others have already said

[Al Czervik]

I wanna give it a try tomorrow evening because today, I'm still eating this
http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=143557

The one on the plate, or number two through nine?

[leanza]

You need very high heat on your wok. If your going stove top you need to think your cook trough and have all your prep done ahead of time and remember not to overcrowd. Too much meat will turn into a steam cook instead of a stir fry. Cook in batches bring the wok back up to temp each time, set half cooked items aside until the finale. Add everything back and the end with your last ingredient, usually that quick cooking leafy item. I use peanut oil to cook with because of it's heat tolerance. I usually finish with some broken dry roasted peanuts on top for flavor and texture.

[backyardchef]

Yes, make sure you are ready to go when it is time to cook. All prep in place, patiently pre-heat the wok, then add oil and brown your protein. Set it aside and then do the longer cooking veggies-- carrots, etc... proceed like this adding the quickest cooking items at the end before you return the meat and its juices into the wok. Next add your sauce and thickener.

I did this red miso chicken and pea shoot dish a few weeks ago....you're making me hungry for it again! Note that I didn't even use the wok :icon_blush:
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/225131_10151115381690816_603132187_n.jpg

You need very high heat on your wok. If your going stove top you need to think your cook trough and have all your prep done ahead of time and remember not to overcrowd. Too much meat will turn into a steam cook instead of a stir fry. Cook in batches bring the wok back up to temp each time, set half cooked items aside until the finale. Add everything back and the end with your last ingredient, usually that quick cooking leafy item. I use peanut oil to cook with because of it's heat tolerance. I usually finish with some broken dry roasted peanuts on top for flavor and texture.

[Stoke&Smoke]

If you have one, the burner from a turkey fryer makes an outstanding (outside) wok burner, BTW

[Woodmonkey]

I marinade chicken in a little sherry, white/black pepper tad of cornstarch for no more than 30 minutes.
Here is a dish I like:
http://www.greeneggers.com/index.php?option=com_simpleboard&func=view&id=1223343&catid=1

[backyardchef]

Sounds good, Woodmonkey! I do something similar. Roughly, ground ginger, five spice powder, a little cracked szechuan pepper, rice wine, soy, a few red pepper flakes, white pepper, and a skosh of cornstarch (if I'm using). 1/2 hour or so marinate time, as well. At the very end of cooking, I might add black vinegar, oyster sauce, or fermented black bean paste, if the flavor is warranted.....Mmm-mmm. So quick and easy! I'm also a big fan of sprouts, scallion whites, or pea shoots, something like that added when it comes of heat to provide a cool, crisp, crunch.....

I marinade chicken in a little sherry, white/black pepper tad of cornstarch for no more than 30 minutes.
Here is a dish I like:
http://www.greeneggers.com/index.php?option=com_simpleboard&func=view&id=1223343&catid=1

[caseydog]

SmokinAussie is the Wok master...

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2101118#post2101118

Hopefully he will chime in here.

CD

[backyardchef]

If you want to learn about wok cooking, you should check out my friend, Grace Young. She is a James Beard Award-Winning stir-fry rockstar!

Michelangelo of Wok Hay! (http://www.graceyoung.com/)
http://www.graceyoung.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/stir-fry-sky-edge.png

[landarc]

What are you planning on making? I have never heard of marinading in cornstarch for a long time. Most of the folks I know marinade for no more than an hour or two. It does change the texture of the meat.

For thickening, Stoke&Smoke has it right.

[buccaneer]

To get an answer on what step to take, we need a clear idea of the destination.
That is also true if you want to follow Mise En Place advice.
http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x370/IBuccaneer/Food%20Shots/KungPowChickenFriedRice.jpg
The thickening agent went in last for this Kung Pow Chicken(Never farkin cornstarch either)

[landarc]

arrowroot?

[landarc]

BTW, Bill is not the Wok master.

[landarc]

dangitall, Buccs, now I want that

[tortaboy]

What are you planning on making? I have never heard of marinading in cornstarch for a long time. Most of the folks I know marinade for no more than an hour or two. It does change the texture of the meat.

For thickening, Stoke&Smoke has it right.

I've never noticed marinade changing the texture of my meat. Flavor yes.

[tortaboy]

To get an answer on what step to take, we need a clear idea of the destination.
That is also true if you want to follow Mise En Place advice.
http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x370/IBuccaneer/Food%20Shots/KungPowChickenFriedRice.jpg
The thickening agent went in last for this Kung Pow Chicken(Never farkin cornstarch either)

What's wrong with cornstarch?

[backyardchef]

Cornstarch is the most common thickener used in very commercial chinese food and isn't the most refined thickener possible. Many chefs don't use thickeners at all.

[buccaneer]

Cornstarch is the most common thickener used in very commercial chinese food and isn't the most refined thickener possible. Many chefs don't use thickeners at all.
Yes, it is the most common.
Doesn't mean it is a smart choice, just an economical and convenient one.:wink:

BTW it isn't used in kitchens where you are paying top dollar and eating haute cuisine Asian...unless hey are a large outfit running on past reputations well...that happens a lot.
There is PLENTY wrong with that choice (cornstarch) but I'm here to help, not argue.

When I know the destination, I can offer more help tortles...

[backyardchef]

I think we are saying the same thing, Buccaneer. I was trying to be a bit more diplomatic. ha!

[buccaneer]

arrowroot?
Is there any topic you don't know about? :clap:

Arrowroot I use a lot of, except with dairy.
It stands up well to acids and is the most neutral of the thickening agents, lots of plusses!

[buccaneer]

I think we are saying the same thing, Buccaneer. I was trying to be a bit more diplomatic. ha!
:bow:


psssst....its tortaboy....he isn't going to accept anything anyway...you KNOW he's gonna cook it like a stew...:becky:

[leanza]

To get an answer on what step to take, we need a clear idea of the destination.
That is also true if you want to follow Mise En Place advice.
http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x370/IBuccaneer/Food%20Shots/KungPowChickenFriedRice.jpg
The thickening agent went in last for this Kung Pow Chicken(Never farkin cornstarch either)

Your dish looks spot on. Clear, not overcrowded, colors are good. Well done! Corn starch would have mucked up the dish.

[tortaboy]

Yes, it is the most common.
Doesn't mean it is a smart choice, just an economical and convenient one.:wink:

BTW it isn't used in kitchens where you are paying top dollar and eating haute cuisine Asian...unless hey are a large outfit running on past reputations well...that happens a lot.
There is PLENTY wrong with that choice (cornstarch) but I'm here to help, not argue.

When I know the destination, I can offer more help tortles...

Who is arguing anything? I didn't even know about using arrowroot for a thickener until this afternoon. Why is arrowroot better than cornstarch?

[tortaboy]

:bow:


psssst....its tortaboy....he isn't going to accept anything anyway...you KNOW he's gonna cook it like a stew...:becky:

:butt::butt::butt::butt:

[buccaneer]

:laugh:

[buccaneer]

Who is arguing anything? I didn't even know about using arrowroot for a thickener until this afternoon. Why is arrowroot better than cornstarch?

Depends on the dish, in a minority of dishes it isn't.
What were you using arrowroot for before?

[tortaboy]

I've never used arrowroot.

I've never even done a stir fry before.

I'm just collecting info before my first wok adventure tomorrow.

Just a basic stir fry. Some veggies and boneless chicken breast.

[landarc]

Okay, since nobody is being helpful...

cornstarch does get used in Chinese and other Asian cooking because it does change the texture of the meat, and this is one of the reasons it is not preferred for use by better cooks. It is, however, commonly used to change cheap crappy meat into tender meat. It also aids in moisture retention when cooking with chicken breast. When you go to most mid- and low- priced Chinese places, the meat is often soaked in a corn starch and cooking wine solution which creates a tenderness. I can pick it out instantly.

Corn starch also creates thicker sauces, very quickly and predictably. But, it is cloudy when it is thickened. It also lacks shine. This is a very undesirable trait in most Asian cuisines and especially Chinese cuisines. The Cantonese really frown upon dull or thick sauces. What you see in the dish Buccaneer cooked in the shine and clarity in the sauce of a properly thickened Wok dish. This is most easily reproduced with Arrowroot, the Japanese call it Kuzu, it is a very refined starch. And, it is nearly clear when lightly heated and shines like glass.

Most Chinese ready made sauces already have thickeners in them, and it is most often a cornstarch or cornstarch derivative. Some also use guar gum in combination. Point in fact, corn is not at all a part of traditional Asian cookery, thus cornstarch is not ideal.

Now, a real good cook, working with time, will not use much arrowroot either, as they will use the wok to reduce the sauce down, thus making it unnecessary to have much, if any, thickener at all. But, that takes time and it is, quite frankly, nicer to add a little arrowroot. Oh, arrowroot does not clump and can make a very fine thickener for gravies and sauces as well.

[landarc]

The biggest thing about wok cooking, is that there is a process and order in which ingredients are cooked and this varies from region to region. I was taught by Cantonese cooks, from California. They heat the wok extremely hot, add the aromatics, including the garlic to the oil, toss to scent the oil and remove them. Then they add the meat, fry until part way done. Then they remove the meat, and add the vegetables and very quickly fry them. The aromatics and onions go back in. It is all finished off. Now, if you have a big wok, the better cooks never remove the aromatics or meat, they shove it up near the edge, where it will stay. Then pull if down as needed. If I was you, I would have a little liquid ready, maybe 1/2 cup to 1 cup, and when the veggies and meat are nearly done, shove them up the side of the wok, or remove them to a warm bowl. Add the liquid and sort of rinse the wok, then reduce for a few minutes, if you added a little arrrowroot or cornstarch to water, add it and it will thicken. I would not add any more than 3 tablespoons of water with 1/4 tablespoon of cornstarch or arrowroot. It will be fine, pull and toss the ingredients and serve. This should all take 5 to 10 minutes at the maximum.

[tortaboy]

Thanks much Bob.

Wok cooking is definitely more complex than I originally thought. It's not just throwing everything into a pan and cooking for a few minutes. I've picked up a lot this weekend. Hopefully I'll do it justice tomorrow night.

[buccaneer]

Bob, I was perfectly willing to help, I asked multiple times what the dish was so I would know what to advise.
What are we supposed to do, write a 5 page tutorial on the use of wok techniques and the chemical interactions of certain starches, acids, heat and fats???
FFS give us a break...:mad2:

[landarc]

I was just poking at you Buccs. :tongue:

Another thing, a lot of successful wok cooking is about preparation of the food. You are cooking it fast, so the food needs to be sliced thin. Now, lots of Chinese places serve it chopped into a dice shape, and many chop things up small. I find this to be stupid, as it is farking annoying trying to eat things with sticks if they are tiny cubes. If you look at that dish Buccs showed off, the items are not diced to oblivion. I prefer to slice things thin, but, long enough that they can be easily picked up with two sticks. Plus, they will cook better and more evenly that way.

[T-Man]

Some really good info passed on . Ready to break the wok out ... Thanks...

[caseydog]

I've never used arrowroot.

I've never even done a stir fry before.

I'm just collecting info before my first wok adventure tomorrow.

Just a basic stir fry. Some veggies and boneless chicken breast.

Okay, I'm not the Wokmaster, and in spite of what the platypus says, Bill is the Wokmaster, IMO.

I have the Weber cast iron wok, and I use it to stir fry. I'm sure my stir fry is not authentic by Landarc or Australian standards, but I like how it tastes.

I use my Mise en Place skills to get everything ready, and heat my wok to a high temperature, and ad my oil, then one-by-one, my ingredients, in the order of cooking time they need.

It always tastes awesome, even if bucc says is done wrong, which I'm sure he would. I don't give a fark what mister duck-bill thinks. :becky:

CD

[landarc]

CD is the Wokmaster, say, it's hot in here, can you go open a window CD :tongue:

I am no wok master either.

[Hook_Line_and_Sinker]

I'm glad this got all wok out

[SmokinAussie]

Awwwww looks like I'm not the wok master....;)

Well actually, I'm not bad on a wok, but seeing this discussion between Buccs and Bob, it looks like I've got a bit to learn:what:

But thats what the forum is for. I'll add more later when I can get off this farking Android phone....

Sent from my XT910 using Tapatalk 2

[SmokinAussie]

Yes, I have a great deal to learn... Thanks CD, for posting my Wok thread.

But really, most everything has been addressed. MAINLY Get your sh!t together and have abslolutely everything ready... That's your Mise En Place.

I don't even say "Mise En Place" I say "Get MY MEEEZ Together"... same thing...

Everything Landarc and Buccs said is pretty much in front of me. Honestly, I knew about arrowroot, but never used it. That's the way I learned, and I've never used anything but cornflour, other than times when I already had a thick sauce. You can make a perfectly decent satisfying WOK dish withough trying to please the Emporer, so start out simple, and as your technique improves, then maybe you can start finessing a bit more. Just make sure you start out with a hot wok, but DONT BURN THE GARLIC! In the way I was taught, meat is fried first very quickly and set to drain on the flower. Previously blanched Veges are then stirfried in a dryish wok, using the remains of the oil for frying the meat. WHen nearly done, the drained meat is added back into the wok. A quick toss, add sauces, stock, condiments etc in a very quick progression, and thicken with cornflour only if required. Serve on a hot plate, clean the wok, and start again (as you usually have to do this quite a few times).

This is by no means the only way, but one way and the way I use the most as it was the way I was taught in a fast food chinese restaurant. Hope this is OK!

Cheers!

Bill

[backyardchef]

Great info, guys. Torta, as you get more familiar with the ingredients that go into asian cooking, you will be amazed how simple it can be-- with or without thickening agents. The down and dirty dish I posted had no corn starch and was just leftover grilled chicken and some other ingredients-- a little chili paste, a little miso paste, etc....

Most important, as stated by others above, is being ready when the time comes- everything cut uniformly and starting the longer cooking items before the faster cooking ones. Simple. All you need is a game plan and confidence! :cool:

A little chicken thigh diced up, a diced onion, diced pepper, some shrooms, minced garlic and ginger, scallions. Add a tiny splash of some flavoring liquid-- just a little and it will evaporate fast and concentrate the flavor-- soy, chili paste, woostershire, rice wine....a splash of each. Dinner in 15 minutes. Start the rice just a few minutes before you preheat the wok. When you master that, try the more involved dishes and thickeners. Let me know what time to come over! :twisted:

[landarc]

My favorite wok dish.

1 pound of baby manila clams
1 bunch of celery, sliced thin
1/4 cup ocean water
1 tablespoon garlic, minced very fine

Fire up wok really hot. Toss in a couple tablespoons peanut oil (must be peanut oil, will smoke, you should have been prepared). Toss in celery toss to coat for 1 to 2 minutes, toss in clams, toss until open, toss in garlic and ocean water, toss until water is nearly gone, serve.

A nice add to this, 2 tablespoons hot fermented black beans

[caseydog]

Thanks much Bob.

Wok cooking is definitely more complex than I originally thought. It's not just throwing everything into a pan and cooking for a few minutes. I've picked up a lot this weekend. Hopefully I'll do it justice tomorrow night.

It doesn't have to be complicated. You can do a simple stir fry with some meat or seafood and veggies. That's what I do. It may not be authentic, but it tastes good. I just stir up some peppers, onions, mushrooms -- whatever I feel like eating. I love to toss shrimp in the wok at the end of the cook (they cook very fast in a wok).

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=516&pictureid=5906

For a first attempt, you may want to keep it simple so you can lear how to use a wok. And, yes, mise en place is VERY important, because things can happen pretty fast.

CD

[caseydog]

My favorite wok dish.

1 pound of baby manila clams
1 bunch of celery, sliced thin
1/4 cup ocean water
1 tablespoon garlic, minced very fine

Fire up wok really hot. Toss in a couple tablespoons peanut oil (must be peanut oil, will smoke, you should have been prepared). Toss in celery toss to coat for 1 to 2 minutes, toss in clams, toss until open, toss in garlic and ocean water, toss until water is nearly gone, serve.

A nice add to this, 2 tablespoons hot fermented black beans

I sure won't be using water from the Gulf of Mexico. :shock:

CD

[tortaboy]

My favorite wok dish.

1 pound of baby manila clams
1 bunch of celery, sliced thin
1/4 cup ocean water
1 tablespoon garlic, minced very fine

Fire up wok really hot. Toss in a couple tablespoons peanut oil (must be peanut oil, will smoke, you should have been prepared). Toss in celery toss to coat for 1 to 2 minutes, toss in clams, toss until open, toss in garlic and ocean water, toss until water is nearly gone, serve.

A nice add to this, 2 tablespoons hot fermented black beans

Hmmm...

I don't have ocean water, but I can get some Bay Water.

Nevermind, I'll just use some water from the toilet. Same thing. :shocked: