Old Timers! Brisket in Decline?

[Boshizzle]

To the Brethren that have been cooking brisket for 15 to 20 years or more, have you noticed a decline in the quality of briskets in recent years? What are the differences and how can we overcome them?

[bigabyte]

I think the main problem I tend to hear from folks is that it needs to be more like tri-tip.

Seriously though...I'm not sure I've noticed a difference.

[Gore]

I've noticed they get really dried out, but it doesn't take 15-20 years for that. Just a couple days and they're pretty much jerky.

[Boshizzle]

I talked to a source for Wagyu brisket and was told they are having trouble nowadays getting Wagyu briskets over 10 or 12 pounds. They also told me that prime briskets were hard to come by because 80% of the market is controlled by the restaurant business. I talked to someone else who said that today's choice briskets aren't any better than the select briskets they used to get 10 years ago.

So, I was wondering what others were noticing.

[bigabyte]

Well, to be honest, I grew up on Select briskets, and that's what I started with. It wasn't until several years ago when I first started talking with comp folks and finding online BBQ forums and such that I learned about preferences for Choice packers, and CAB and all that. Before all that, I would have laughed at the idea of paying extra for a cheap, tough piece of meat like brisket.

I am sure that the increased demand from the increased exposure to BBQ is putting a pinch on things. I just haven't noticed. The Choice briskets I am getting at Sam's today seem as good as the ones I've had the last several years, but I can't compare to 15 to 20 years ago because back then I wasn't looking for Choice or Prime packers.

[El Ropo]

The local HEB grocery by me has a whole stockpile of CAB choice briskets for the same price as ungraded/select tonight. $2.18/lb, and they range from 11-14 lbs. Flop over the forearm like a wet lasagna noodle, and flats are pretty evenly trimmed. I guess I'm in brisket nirvana.

I posted the heads up in the sales forum. Austinknight, are you around? You be missing out!

[landarc]

In my opinion, there are cycles. I grew up on select meat as well, but, often saw better stuff at the butcher. I don't think the meat has changed for the worse in say the past 5 years. There was a move to slaughtering younger animals around 15 years ago to get leaner meats, that led to smaller briskets.

I think there is a strong influence of the restaurant business on the meat market, with a lot of the better cuts going to the trade. There are also just a lot more restaurants in the past 5 years or so that are selling beef dishes more prominently on their menus.

[Bbqin fool]

I talked to a source for Wagyu brisket and was told they are having trouble nowadays getting Wagyu briskets over 10 or 12 pounds. They also told me that prime briskets were hard to come by because 80% of the market is controlled by the restaurant business. I talked to someone else who said that today's choice briskets aren't any better than the select briskets they used to get 10 years ago.

So, I was wondering what others were noticing.

Who did you talk to? Last brisket I did came from Olde Towne Butcher. Quality was great and at 14 lbs it had plenty of meat!

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2

[landarc]

I have heard same from various competition cooks, that their sources for good choice and prime packers by the case have dried up, lots of 10 to 12 pounders with thin flats. I believe that may well be the case, as these guys are often looking to buy caes early in the year, they feel the pinch more.

[tish]

So, Joe, if you think there's a difference between the meat you see today, and the meat that was available 20 years ago, or even 5 years ago, is there really anything you could do about it? :confused:

[AustinKnight]

What HEB El ropo ? I got one aging now May 5 cant come soon enough!

@Boshizzle
"I talked to someone else who said that today's choice briskets aren't any better than the select briskets they used to get 10 years ago"

That might have been true back then, cause I vaguely remember select briskets with some freaking marbling in them not these days.

[Boshizzle]

Who did you talk to? Last brisket I did came from Olde Towne Butcher. Quality was great and at 14 lbs it had plenty of meat!

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2

Yep, everything I get from Lee is first rate stuff. The CAB brisket I cooked today came from OTB and the quality was very good.

[Boshizzle]

So, Joe, if you think there's a difference between the meat you see today, and the meat that was available 20 years ago, or even 5 years ago, is there really anything you could do about it? :confused:

Nothing but buy the higher quality stuff. I'm just curious about it.

[Boshizzle]

The person I talked to about getting some Wagyu said that it's becoming too expensive for growers to keep cattle around long enough to develop 18 to 20 pound Wagyu briskets due to the fabulous and "green" cult-like doctrine of "green energy" and corn ethanol. It's causing corn prices to rise too much.

What kind of society decides to burn food, anyway? Oh, never mind. Our elected officials seem to think it's a good idea to burn up food as fuel in a world with millions of people who go without even though the U.S. has more oil in the ground than Saudi Arabia (sorry for the rant).

[RoadHawgBBQ]

The quality has changed due to the government grading of protein... Proteins are graded up to increase the price per pound given to the producers because the cost of grain has increased with all the bio fuel crap

[BigButzBBQ]

I know it sounds messed up but, they dry out super fast and I think that it's on purpose. I think they are flooding the market with inferior quality brisket to drive up the price of "prime" briskets. Also, I think with the twisted trend of high end hamburgers going on, we're losing alot of good briskets to this.

[Boshizzle]

I know it sounds messed up but, they dry out super fast and I think that it's on purpose. I think they are flooding the market with inferior quality brisket to drive up the price of "prime" briskets. Also, I think with the twisted trend of high end hamburgers going on, we're losing alot of good briskets to this.

U serious?

[landarc]

Or, the other possibility, avoiding all of the 'our government is evil' crapola, is that the market has driven the desire for fatty meats down for so long, due to people shopping for leaner beef, that ranchers have found it is more advantageous in the market, to slaughter animals younger, producing a leaner animal that is still more tender. And whole there is a sub-culture of folks who are willing to pay $100 for a Wagyu brisket, the reality is, the very small amount of demand for a 14 pound Wagyu brisket is offset by the larger market force asking for a totally different product on the market.

Further, even as you consider that Wagyu is a premium product, as is Prime grade beef, even the market for that is currently smaller, as people prefer a smaller cross section of steak with a thicker cut. Hence, again, a younger animal is preferred. At one time, I can remember that a 16 ounce t-bone covered a standard serving platter, now that same amount of t-bone is cut much thicker, but, only cover 1/2 to 3/4 of the plate. Our perception is that the thicker steak is a better steak.

I do not but the idea that it is bio-fuel that is fueling the loss of feed and the higher cost of corn. The truth is, it is the corn lobby that forced the legislation that required that all ethanol fuels in the U.S. be corn based. In other coutries, where corn is not as readily grown, ethanol is produced from other oil seeds. If corn is what is required for higher quality beef, there is the ability in this country to grow it. Last I looked, there are plenty of smaller farmers that could still use a hand.

I choose to believe that the change, if there has been one, has been driven by market forces and not some perception of government incompetence.

[Utah Jake]

I think I was getting better meat when brisket and tri-tip was headed for the hamburger grinder. Since the world discovered what we always knew, seems like I can only find second best and then the butcher sell me thick fat caps at 2.25 a pound, be lucking get 50% of it I can actually use.

[BigButzBBQ]

U serious?

Yes!

I have to admit, I do believe that Landarc is right that consumerism driving the trend towards leaner overall cuts of meat had brought about a leaner line of brisket as well. But! Think about it like this. The trend now-a-days has gone towards "cheap is crap, expensive is good" people are demanding higher quality for their dollar and the producers of higher end goods are getting hit from all sides. Fuel cost, feed expenses, processing license fees, transporting, shipping, you name it! Because of this, the cheap stuff is worse than ever and the actual quality stuff is costing more to make.
Most people are still hurting from the economy dropping through the bottom and can't neccessarilly afford the high end steak that they used to get but will settle for buying a high end burger. It's that whole shabby chic thing.

[El Ropo]

What HEB El ropo ? I got one aging now May 5 cant come soon enough!

@Boshizzle
"I talked to someone else who said that today's choice briskets aren't any better than the select briskets they used to get 10 years ago"

That might have been true back then, cause I vaguely remember select briskets with some freaking marbling in them not these days.


I'm in Jollyville north, so the HEB that I shop is at 183/lakecreek on west side of 183. All they had in stock was CAB choice. Odd, cuz I was in there two days ago, and all they had were USDA inspected, ungraded. Huge difference in quality, but same price.

The flats were fairly large and pretty uniform on these, with a decent sized point. I was droolin', but just don't need another brisket ATM, or I would of picked one up.

FWIW, I did pick up a cryopack Smithfield Farms pork loin that was tightly trimmed for $1.99/lb. I've already eaten 1/4 of it lol. Really nice stuff.

[El Ropo]

U serious?

He's FOS and BS IMO.

All the high end restaurants get the highest quality meats because they're willing to pay the price, and the suppliers are willing to sell to 'em because they like a regular customer.

No conspiracy BS. Just supply and demand in the free market.

[landarc]

I am not wizard of commodity watcher, here is what I know and why.

1. In 1978, I went to Idaho and visited my uncle, he had several lots out on the back of his farm that held cattle. They were a mix of brown and black cattle, one had a arrow in it's haunch. Don't ask. Anyway, he also grew many acres of feed corn, to feed these cattle in his lots. When I asked him why he did this, here was his answer.

"I am required to bring these animals to market, through a jobber, at a given weight. He wants them all at once, and all in one range of carcass wieght. This assure him of a certain liklihood of getting the grading he needs, so I can get the price I need, to make it all pay off. The longer feed time I keep these cattle on corn, the fatter they get at the time of sale, this means higher grading and more money"

2. Some 12 to 15 years passed, and we ventured up to Idaho for my aunt's funeral, I noticed that there were no cattle. I also noticed that there was no corn in the fields. I knew they still were in the cattle business so I asked what the deal was. Because there is no time like your uncle's wifes funeral to ask about your food interests. He said this:

"While I still raise cattle, in fact, more than ever, they never come back to the lots here anymore, there is no need. My jobber is not being pressed for leaner meats and smaller cuts as that is what you folks in California and New York want, lean, dry meat. Since I graze my cattle on BLM land in Idaho, Utah and Montana, I sell them straight from roundup to the jobber. We don't fatten them up anymore. I don't grow the corn anymore because I dont' feed the cattle anymore. I can sell all the sugar beets I can grow to Pepsi, so we grow sugar beets"

I will say this, my uncles steaks, that he raised the cattle for the family, they could be cooked to well-done and still be eaten and considered fairly tender. He hated the way I ate steaks, said it wasn't healthy to eat raw meat (medium at the time). He fed his cattle a special corn silage, with oats, grass (I believe wheat) and barley in it. It smelled of beer.

The last time we spoke, before he passed on, he was telling me how he didn't understand the market anymore, that folks seemed to want very young animals, he called them some name, it meant just past yearling, as they were moving towards a 2 year slaughter. This would lead to a carcass with marketable but very lean steaks and smaller cuts from the shoulders and haunches. He also spoke about hybrids, that would have the tendency to bulk lean and have better market cuts.

[bigabyte]

I don't think the beef market is as simple as "this one problem is everything that's wrong".

Farmers are going to do whatever they can to make the best results they can that meets demand. I think modern day demands where basically every consumer is asking for the top quality stuff, as in what used to be the top 10% of product, is causing a problem, because now the vast majority of the product is being made to meet those demands.

I also believe farmers are impacted by feed prices, corn being one most commonly fed to cattle, which further complicates the issue.

It's a little bit of everything, really. And the only way it will change is if demand changes. Currently, people want the best price on premium lean beef. To do that, well, do the math.

I do believe that using a different biofuel source, other than food (particularly corn), will help prices.

[frohe]

So, Joe, if you think there's a difference between the meat you see today, and the meat that was available 20 years ago, or even 5 years ago, is there really anything you could do about it? :confused:

Us little backyard smoker guys can't do anything other than look for the best chunk of meat we can find, buy it and cook it. Now that BBQ is well known and the incresed number of BBQ restaurants, the demand had made it tough to find bigger cuts since the suppliers are hustling to try and meet the demand.

[frohe]

I know it sounds messed up but, they dry out super fast and I think that it's on purpose. I think they are flooding the market with inferior quality brisket to drive up the price of "prime" briskets. Also, I think with the twisted trend of high end hamburgers going on, we're losing alot of good briskets to this.

Let's not forget that the price of deisel influences the cost of everything. Suppliers, truckers, distribution centers, they all are dealing with the higher cost of fuel. They pass their costs on to the stores who do the same to us buyers.

[frohe]

We've failed to consider the losses of the 2011 drought.

Here's a report from Texas where losses for livestock was $3.23 billion. You bet the pickings will be slim now and in the near future.

[2dumb2kwit]

We've failed to consider the losses of the 2011 drought.

Here's a report from Texas where losses for livestock was $3.23 billion. You bet the pickings will be slim now and in the near future.

I was thinking this very thing. I was thinking about what shape the beef must be in when it gets to the feed lots, and with the high prices of corn, how much can they afford to fatten them up. With corn prices up, there must be a point of diminishing returns, from feeding them corn in the feed lots. (And the price of fuel, is going to make all prices go up.)

[jacksedona]

boshizzle
i have noticed both more lousy brisket meat but have also found some good cuts which are more expensive,
i agree with roadhawgbbq but you just have to get a higher quality brisket to cook and complain to the food manager about the stuff you are using now if you don't like whats in the store-i let them know what i want. maybe tell them to get the same meat that HEB gets.
the best brisket i ever ate was in amarillo texas the heart of meat country!

best wishes
alan jacksedona

http://thebarbecuemaster.net (http://thebarbecuemaster.net/)

[chachahut]

Have to say - restaurants are hurting as well - especially small joints like mine. Just had to switch suppliers as I started getting cases with "full packers" in the 8 - 10# range. Literally wanted to hurl them at my sales rep. Had it explain to him we are a Q joint & brisket is our specialty. Light briskets are only good for grinding into sausage (or making our house Sloppy Brisket - a kind of brisket sloppy joe). Switched over to a new supplier this week & got nice big cases averaging 14# per packer. Of course that could change as well.

According to my sales reps - beef producers are holding back supply to hike the price. The combo of higher costs (fuel & feed) plus the recent drought & overall crap economy has them looking for top dollar. Also - as mentioned - many as sending younger cattle to market making for lighter weights.

With the summer grilling season coming up - demand will increase which tends to lead to price drops & better product. At least - that's what I've been told...

[Norm]

Some of it is that the packers want uniform size slaughter steers for the markets. This turns out to be a 1200# steer which is finished out at a young age. To be prime grade in most cases means steers that are fattened out longer and get to a heavier weight.

Last steer we finished out for ourselves went 1600#s, the butcher who did the kill and quartering said it would most likely grade prime. The commercial feedlots can't afford to let them go that long and the packers don't want them that big. You get leaner less marbled beef because of it which translates into less flavor.

You can buy from the local guy but again getting him to fatten out to a heavier weight is going to cost more if you can get them to do it.

[HogFan]

3 contributing factors (likely there are more)

- Recent push for "grass fed" beef. Can't fatten out a cow on grass like you can with grain.

- Ethanol and high corn prices. The mandate for ethanol usage has diverted a huge percentage of the nations corn crop to be used as fuel. This has drastically driven up the price of corn and thus grain fed to cattle. So much so that many ranchers are getting out of the market. I'm guessing on the following but possibly this has lead to slaughtering younger animals to minimize costs. Maybe corn prices are related to the push for grass fed beef.

- Supply of cattle down drastically. Between ranchers/farmers reducing/eliminating their herds due to losing money because of grain costs (losing money) and recent catastrophic losses due to draught, many plants are struggling to run at capacity. Many, many Texas ranchers eliminated their herds or paid unheard of prices for hay this past winter to keep the herd alive. Folks in Ark. were paid unheard of prices to truck hay down to Texas this past year.

I wonder what folks in third world countries that are starving think about us burning corn in our gas tanks? Talk about excess and callousness.......

[El Ropo]

They should figure out a way to burn vegans for fuel and keep the corn for the livestock!:boxing: :behindsofa:

Is there a tongue in cheek smiley?

[landarc]

Wow, Norm, a 1600# steer, that must have been a nice carcass.

[landarc]

HogFan, the folks that are looking for grass-finished beef (because, let's face it, all cattle are grass fed at some point) are looking for lean beef, that is exactly why they are buying it. At one time, it was to avoid animals that may have been fed animal by-products, but, it is more often the case now, that they really do want that lean beef.

Actually, I like to buy grass-finished beef for certain things, I like the stronger taste and lower fat levels.

[Norm]

Wow, Norm, a 1600# steer, that must have been a nice carcass.

It wasn't totally on purpose. It just worked out that we couldn't get around to having him sent in because of the farm work here.

Well that and a healthy dose of procrastination. :wink:

[cricky101]

And farmers are expected to plant the most corn in 75 years this spring. It's all cyclical. http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/30/us-usa-crops-idUSBRE82T0Q420120330

[HogFan]

They planted a lot of corn last year but weather affected the yield.