Saturday's cook (pr0n-like AND a plea for help!)

[LittleDick'sBBQ]

Greetings,

It all started innocently enough, we invited some friends over for some BBQ. I got two slabs o' ribs and a whole chicken.
http://images5a.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp63557%3Enu%3D47%3A9%3E%3A45%3E259%3E WSNRCG%3D34%3C434%3A55434%3Anu0mrj
It was going to be a good cook. The ribs were a little fatter than I would like. I DID have a new pop-up to shelter me from the rain AND I drilled a hole in the Weber kettle to run my probe wires.

Not having to fight with the wires going through the lid vents is awesome! I can lift the lid to spritz/sauce the meat, check for doneness, etc. Yep, it was going to be a GOOD cook.

Ribs. I removed the membrane and hit it with Simply Marvelous cherry

http://images3a.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp73438%3Enu%3D47%3A9%3E%3A45%3E259%3E WSNRCG%3D34%3C3%3A%3A388934%3Anu0mrj

wrapped 'em in Cling while the fire came up to temp.

http://images5a.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp635%3B2%3Enu%3D47%3A9%3E%3A45%3E259% 3EWSNRCG%3D34%3C434%3A55534%3Anu0mrj

After 90 (+/-) minutes over apple chunks

http://images3a.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp73439%3Enu%3D47%3A9%3E%3A45%3E259%3E WSNRCG%3D34%3C434%3A46%3B34%3Anu0mrj

I pulled the ribs after two-and-three-quarter hours at 275-290F, foiled them, and put them in a 275F oven. Since they were thick, and were not passing the "bend test." They spent two hours foiled in a 300F oven (remember...they are thick? They were also not the kind I usually buy.) and then rested in a super-cooler for over an hour.

The bird:

http://images5a.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp63555%3Enu%3D47%3A9%3E%3A45%3E259%3E WSNRCG%3D34%3C44%3B%3B8%3A%3B34%3Anu0mrj

I split it (I'm getting better at this!), and hit it with some evoo, Yardbird, and salt and pepper.

http://images5a.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp63579%3Enu%3D47%3A9%3E%3A45%3E259%3E WSNRCG%3D34%3C4528%3A5734%3Anu0mrj

It cooked on a 270-290F grill for about 90 minutes...

http://images5a.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp635%3C5%3Enu%3D47%3A9%3E%3A45%3E259% 3EWSNRCG%3D34%3C44%3B%3B8%3B434%3Anu0mrj

I pulled the bird, put in an a class dish, covered it with foil, and put it into the 300F oven for another hour before resting it for an hour in the cooler.

There are no more pictures. Why? The results were TERRIBLE!! The ribs were WAY overcooked, dry, crumbly, WAY beyond "falling off the bone." The chicken meat was OK, but the skin was rubbery and overly-smokey.

Has anybody else experienced a slump like mine?? I felt like I was doing OK, putting out good eats, etc. Now, I cannot seem to produce BBQ that is edible! Am I over-thinking this?

Also, what do you do when (like yesterday) you invite folks over and the food is BAD?? Sure, people SAID they liked it, and (aside from disintegrating!) it TASTED alright, but I KNOW I can do better (and have!).

I am sure we are our own worst judges/critics. Yesterday was embarrassing.

HELP! :wacko:

Little Dick

[ThatsWhatSheSaidBBQ]

Heard that...It happens..What can you do? I invited a buddy over for baby backs a few weeks back...They were cooked perfectly but I over salted...Not good. The other day another buddy came over and asked when I was going to smoke him some ribs.. Told me that my other buddy was raving about them.. Aren't you glad some of our friends don't always recognize bad que when they eat it?

[LittleDick'sBBQ]

Thanks ThatWhatSheSaidBBQ,

Another farking question: is the skin on my chicken rubbery 'cause I am using a water pan? Do I need to cook it in a dry smoker?

Little Dick

[Outnumbered]

I curious to see answers on the rubber skin question. I've had better luck on peices by going higher on the temp and cooking a little faster.

[landarc]

The skin on chicken is the eternal quest, but, higher temperatures, like 350F or so, is the answer to the chicken issue. You can also rub a little oil under the breasts and in the leg joint, which, curiously, helps the fat render.

Those are the extra meaty ribs, I have not yet figured out quite how to get them done to my liking. I am sure it is a matter of going longer, and probably lower. I haven't tried foiling them, which might help.

Yes, if folks enjoyed it, you are over-thinking it. At it's essence, BBQ is rather a simple thing to do, unless you go crazy with perfection.

[AustinKnight]

You said you put the bird in the oven for another hour in a pan and sealed the top with foil, you most likely steamed the chicken that's probably the reason for rubber skin.

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[LittleDick'sBBQ]

You said you put the bird in the oven for another hour in a pan and sealed the top with foil, you most likely steamed the chicken that's probably the reason for rubber skin.

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk

Thanks. I was thinking the same thing. Do you think smoking without a water pan may add to skin crispiness?

Little Dick

[LittleDick'sBBQ]

Those are the extra meaty ribs, I have not yet figured out quite how to get them done to my liking. I am sure it is a matter of going longer, and probably lower. I haven't tried foiling them, which might help.

Extra meaty is right...I don't like 'em! Given my druthers, I'll take the Swift St. Louis cut ribs.

Little Dick

[BBQ Bandit]

Not all ribs are the same... avoid ribs that has "enhanced solution added" on the label.

Strike one


The solution has already started to 'tenderize' - softening the fibers thru osmosis.
Basically its a salt brine - partially curing the ribs in the cryovac- leaving a 'ham-like' taste.

Strike 2


Once adding a rub containing salt seals your fate... doomed before hitting the smoker.

Strike 3.


Sorry about the chicken... rubbery skin... won't render properly under low temps... 325-375 preferred.

[AustinKnight]

Thanks. I was thinking the same thing. Go you think smoking without a water pan may add to skin crispiness?

Little Dick

Yes it probably would your cooking in a kettle so maybe a reverse sear might work well. Do you ever flip the bird skin side down for the cook?

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[tarheelsmoker]

I've definitely been through the slump. I am also my biggest critic. I know exactly what's wrong with what I have cooked. I am learning not to sweat it so much because it makes me miserable, and this is supposed to be fun!!!

I have also had the problem with the rubbery chicken skin. I would suggest no water pan, get the chicken skin as dry as you can before rubbing it and like the other brethren have said, higher temps will allow the skin to get crispy. I know a few guys who just throw the skin away. ( after the chicken is cooked).

--Mike

[frohe]

It all started innocently enough, we invited some friends over for some BBQ. I got two slabs o' ribs and a whole chicken.

It was going to be a good cook. The ribs were a little fatter than I would like. I DID have a new pop-up to shelter me from the rain AND I drilled a hole in the Weber kettle to run my probe wires.

Not having to fight with the wires going through the lid vents is awesome! I can lift the lid to spritz/sauce the meat, check for doneness, etc. Yep, it was going to be a GOOD cook.

Ribs. I removed the membrane and hit it with Simply Marvelous cherry

wrapped 'em in Cling while the fire came up to temp.

After 90 (+/-) minutes over apple chunks

I pulled the ribs after two-and-three-quarter hours at 275-290F, foiled them, and put them in a 275F oven. Since they were thick, and were not passing the "bend test." They spent two hours foiled in a 300F oven (remember...they are thick? They were also not the kind I usually buy.) and then rested in a super-cooler for over an hour.

The bird:

I split it (I'm getting better at this!), and hit it with some evoo, Yardbird, and salt and pepper.

It cooked on a 270-290F grill for about 90 minutes...

I pulled the bird, put in an a class dish, covered it with foil, and put it into the 300F oven for another hour before resting it for an hour in the cooler.

There are no more pictures. Why? The results were TERRIBLE!! The ribs were WAY overcooked, dry, crumbly, WAY beyond "falling off the bone." The chicken meat was OK, but the skin was rubbery and overly-smokey.

Has anybody else experienced a slump like mine?? I felt like I was doing OK, putting out good eats, etc. Now, I cannot seem to produce BBQ that is edible! Am I over-thinking this?

Also, what do you do when (like yesterday) you invite folks over and the food is BAD?? Sure, people SAID they liked it, and (aside from disintegrating!) it TASTED alright, but I KNOW I can do better (and have!).

I am sure we are our own worst judges/critics. Yesterday was embarrassing.

HELP! :wacko:

Little Dick

To me, you're trying to be too fancy. Ribs go on the fire til the meat has pulled back on the bone 1/2" or so & passes the "crack" test. I would suggest you go back to the basics and cook ribs til you are satisfied with what you've cooked and you're proud to serve it to your friends and family. Once you've mastered that, you can mess with embellishments til you find something you like better.

Chicken is not a low & slow meat. It's supposed to be grilled on high heat, directly over the coals. I've never put my chicken in a cooler. I do rest all meats I cook to let the juices even out in the meat before serving. To get a crispy skin, brush some EVOO on the skin and place it skin down over the coal to let it crisp up before pulling. Since it's a grill thing, leave the grill lid up and watch the skin til it's like you want it.

Overall, understand cooking good BBQ is an art that is mastered with time and lots of practice. One nice thing about making mistakes with BBQ is you get to eat the evidence and not tell anyone about your errors. :becky: :becky: :becky:

[fingerlickin']

I love those extra meaty ribs, that's what I get most of the time. My neighbor brought me some weak ones tonight 2 for him 1 for the cook, thanks neighbor. They only took 2 hrs no foil and still seemed a tad overdone. If this is the type of BB's most people get, no wonder everyone prefers spares. As far as the extra meaty ones go I have had a lot of success going 2hrs on grate @260 then in foil for 1 hr, then back on till they are done.

[LittleDick'sBBQ]

To me, you're trying to be too fancy.

Guilty. I am looking forward to getting back to basics and good meat! I'm gonna try and fire off a rack of ribs before the weekend.

Generally, do folks find they vary their cooks or just keep doing the same meat many times until they "get it right?"

Thanks,
Little Dick

[LittleDick'sBBQ]

Chicken is not a low & slow meat. It's supposed to be grilled on high heat, directly over the coals.

I tried (obviously unsuccessfully!) to get the temperature up after I pulled the ribs. I added extra lit coals, but perhaps the fire had run its course by that time...

Thanks for the advice.

Little Dick

[landarc]

You do have to do a certain meat fairly often to get a feel for it. Even someone like me, who has been cooking for decades over smoke and fire needs to do basic cooks every year.

[LoneStarMojo]

Man this thread is loaded with some fine wisdom. Been smoking and grilling for 35 years and hopefully I can add to it.

Before I cook chicken I like to take it out of the package and let it set in the open air in my fridge for at least 24 hours before I cook it. This helps to help set a crispy skin. Chicken takes smoke on so well that it takes very little to get it just right smokey. I usually smoke chicken and ribs @ 350-375 degrees and that seems to be the just right temp for me and my set-up to get the ribs done and chicken done with crispy skin.

Also I usually just tent my chicken with foil unless I get it done way too early and then it goes in a cooler and after that the skin is a lost cause anyways.

[aquablue22]

Bunch of good advise here, I don't get things having to go in the oven, I never put anything that I've smoked in the oven, except peanuts just to finish them off. I finish everything right in the smoker. In my opinion when you wrap things up in foil and put them back it heat it's like steaming it. I wrap fish and lemon, lime and oranges slices in foil and "steam" it.

[frohe]

Generally, do folks find they vary their cooks or just keep doing the same meat many times until they "get it right?"


I can only speak for myself here. I kept a notebook for the longest time, noting what I cooked, how I cooked it, the effect of weather & how it tasted. After a while I kept seeing a recurring theme in my cooks of the things I liked. So I concentrated on those until I had it down pat and could cook it everytime without peeking at the notebook. To this day, I pretty much stick with what has worked for me and makes my family & friends happy to gather up when I tell them the meat is about to hit the fire.

Now don't get me wrong. Experimenting is very allowable but whatever it is should not be the main course for those eating. Kinda like sauce on the side for those who like it. If it's a hit, cook more of it and have your friends over to enjoy it with you.

On last thought. Tell your friends it's ok to tell you when they don't like something and ask them what it was about it they didn't like. Those become great clues for improvements or removal from the recipe.

Good luck!

[capt. beef o'pork]

Maybe i missed something, but it should be mentioned that temp is critical. The temp of the chicken was mentioned, but the rib temp was way high. 180-220 max, is in my opinion, more forgiving. As for the chicken, the turkey cannon is the answer. Bbq rules!

[landarc]

frohe, some good points there, I happen to agree that the time to experiment is not so much when folks are coming over for dinner. Unless you tell them they are going to be test subjects.

I always try to get honest feedback from folks about what I have cooked, but, it is so difficult. Either the food really doesn't suck or folks are just really not inclined to be critical. I think it is the latter. In the end, most folks are polite and truly appreciate being fed. I suspect they really do enjoy the food because it is in a good setting and a good time.