Efficiency Wise-Steel or Ceramic?

[darita]

There's been a lot of talk about the new Char-Griller Kamado, which got me thinking about the other steel cooker, Big Steel Keg. Of course, once you think about kamado type cookers, you have to consider the original ceramics. I don't want to create a pissing match by asking this question, but I'm really curious which of these forms of cookers holds heat best.
BSK costs a lot more than the CGK, so I'm wondering what the difference could be there, if any, as far as how well they hold heat. For ceramics, I know the Komodo Kamado is very thick and I've read about how well they hold heat and how few coals they use in the process, while remaining cool to the touch. I guess I'm wondering, if I had equally sized BSK, CGK and BGE or Primo, which could maintain temp using the least amount of coals? Again, I'm not knocking any of them...in fact, I'd love to own one of each type.

[bbqchicken]

:pop2:

[certified106]

I want one of both! Or two or three.....Can you really have enough BBQ equipment?

[The Pup]

The Kamado Komodo's use of refractory material is an important key to its high-performance.

Extract from http://www.komodokamado.com

Two-Layer Refractory Body - The dense hot face is extremely durable, the outside layer of insulation prevents heat loss. As less fuel can be burned to maintain a particular temperature , there is less airflow which results in food with less moisture loss... (read Juicy)

Weather Proof - A high tech, NASA spin off industrial insulation is used as both the adhesive and grout for the tiles. It insulates by reflecting heat using nano ceramic spheres produced in a vacuum. It is UV resistant, extremely durable and elastomeric so it won't crack when the cooker expands at high temps.

"Early on we discovered that all industrial high temperature containment was achieved using refractory materials. That led to our finding the best in that business, Harbinson Walker. They were chosen to engineer and produce our revolutionary and patented two layer design. From day one our two layer design catapulted us into a class of our own in regards to performance and durability. Another notable first was the self-opening feature along with casting the straps into the body to ensure alignment."

[tarheelsmoker]

I only have a Char Griller, So I can't speak for the other brands on here, but I can tell you when I bought it, the main reason was to see if I liked Kamado style cooking and if I do, I plan to upgrade. Also, if I am going to mess something up while I'm learning, I would much rather screw up 300 dollar cooker than 1000- unlimited.

As far as coal consumption, I have done an initial seasoning and burn off cook for 30-45 minutes and pegged the thermometer(over 800). Then I smoked some leg quarters for about 4 hours, then a 9 hour burn yesterday for a brisket. I snuffed the fire right after pulling the meat on all burns, and I have yet to use 1/2 bag of Royal Oak Lump.

There has been quite a bit of talk about air leaks in the CharGriller Kamado, and a list of mods that people have done. I can tell you I haven't done any mods and I am not having too much trouble with it.

I can also say that I love this cooker so far, and I will eventually upgrade but I'm not sure which. I have to say, I like the easier handling of the steel, plus the lesser concern with breaking it.

[LostArrow]

Both are very efficient.
There is a downside to allowing too little heat to escape.
Low heat cooks then run the risk of the fire going out.

[ButchB]

I've wondered the same myself. I would think the ceramic would hold heat better but for the money i'm gonna go with the chargriller.

[kennyd0118]

I always hear people talking about ceramics breaking. Has anyone actually broken one or at least know someone, first hand, who broke one? It seems to me that you would really need to have a serious mishap to break one.
I can see a firebox breaking if dropped if you were not careful.
-Kenny

[BBQ Bandit]

Have bought and used a steel clone - the Bubba Keg grill
Also have used 3 kegs side by side with 3 Big Green Eggs.

The Bubba keg was the first version. Then it was modified and renamed the Big Steel Keg... then what is now on its third version as the Broil King Grill.

Chose the keg for its durability, cooking versatility, lightweight portability, and transportability riding on a hitch mount.

Also ran 28 hours on one load of lump.

[Gore]

I hope fuel efficiency isn't going to be the factor you use to determine what you purchase. I expect they're all pretty efficient. Although steel is a conductor, I can't believe these smokers wouldn't have an insulating layer of air to increase efficiency. For the record, I use a Primo XL. For what it's worth, I can easily toot along at 250* or so for 24 hours without adding coals, and I wouldn't be surprised if I could go 30 hours. I've never actually had to add charcoal. This weekend, I went for 12+ hours at 400*. Two hours after I shut all the vents at 425*, the temp was still at 380* -- I know because I forgot to cook something and could do so with just the residual heat. I didn't start out with a full load and don't know how many coals I had left when I finished. Also, the times are highly dependent on what kind of charcoal you use. I've used Royal Oak lately. I get significantly longer times from the Primo charcoal.

[deepsouth]

i've had three ceramic cookers for 4+ years and i've never had a problem with the ceramics cracking or gasket failure. i can't speak for any other type of cooker.

[jasonjax]

An anecdotal reference: The Buuba Keg/BSK has commerical grade oven insulation inbetween the steel interior and exterior.

The iQue 110 (recently mentioned in another thread) has to be modified to induct less air to operate properly on the BSK/Bubba Keg because the keg was "too efficient" according to the maker of the iQue110. I've not heard of similar issues with the BGE's etc.

I experienced this first hand with the 110 attached to my keg. I had to tape over some of the inlets for the fan to not get the temperature too high.

I was fairly amazed at how well the keg retained temperature and utilized such small amounts of fuel for low n slow.

All this said, I think we're arguing over miniscule differences here. Both products are amazingly efficient and perform oustandingly well.

[deguerre]

For me it's simple. Which one is my clumsy a$$ most likely to break?

[tish]

Love, love, love my Keg. The lump seems to last forever in it. Holds wicked high temps for making multiple pizzas. Holding low temps isn't a problem as long as you don't overshoot your initial target temp. Lighter, unbreakable, and cheaper than ceramic. Portable by slipping it onto the hitch of my motor home. Haven't tried the new CG, but if it's able to do all this stuff, too, I'd say it was a no-brainer.

[Big George's BBQ]

Love my Large BGE for long low and slow or for high heat cooks, and searing. You will get positive reports on both

[RW]

kennyd0118 (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/member.php?u=28119),
I watched a guy wheeling a BGE across a parking lot once as he was setting up for a sports show. His egg hit a bad spot and over it went, breaking into hundreds of little green pieces. He had tears and I had tears.

[kennyd0118]

kennyd0118 (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/member.php?u=28119),
I watched a guy wheeling a BGE across a parking lot once as he was setting up for a sports show. His egg hit a bad spot and over it went, breaking into hundreds of little green pieces. He had tears and I had tears.

That is the only way I could see one breaking. This is also why the say pull the BGE and not push it.
I'm not saying that the ceramics are not fragile it's just one of those things that I keep hearing about but never hear about anyone actually breaking one.
I'm sorry to hear about BGE. Sad indeed.
Thanks,
-Kenny

[powerpig]

I have a large BGE, Viking Egg and the Char Griller. In fact, I cooked on all three yesterday.

The Viking was the hardest to break in, but now is easy to regulate.

The Char Griller is still in the break in period, but holds heat well. The bottom ash pan seems to be stuck, but I'll have to retry and see.

The BGE is my go to smoker as it's the easiest to use and has great temp control.

Of course, I also have my two 18" WSM, one 22 WSM, three Traegers and a couple of Weber Performers. I enjoy cooking on all of them! :thumb:

[Goddahavit]

I love my keg- thanks to Bandit!!! If your going to move the cooker at all, its a piece of cake.

But if your not moving it, get whatever you find the best deal on, always wanted an egg, or primo oval.. I still do but im not about to pony up for one.

My keg works, its my go to grill i dont smoke in it, it can be tricky you have to catch the tempos on the way up, if you let it get hot, its going to stay hot.

I actually am going to sell my performer due to lack of use....

[Baby Back Maniac]

There's been a lot of talk about the new Char-Griller Kamado, which got me thinking about the other steel cooker, Big Steel Keg. Of course, once you think about kamado type cookers, you have to consider the original ceramics. I don't want to create a pissing match by asking this question, but I'm really curious which of these forms of cookers holds heat best.
BSK costs a lot more than the CGK, so I'm wondering what the difference could be there, if any, as far as how well they hold heat. For ceramics, I know the Komodo Kamado is very thick and I've read about how well they hold heat and how few coals they use in the process, while remaining cool to the touch. I guess I'm wondering, if I had equally sized BSK, CGK and BGE or Primo, which could maintain temp using the least amount of coals? Again, I'm not knocking any of them...in fact, I'd love to own one of each type.

Eggs do NOT remain cool to the touch. That's a total marketing misrepresentation. I was SO disappointed when I got out my laser thermometer and found out that the the top of the dome ran darn close to EXACTLY what my temps were on top of my kettle when the insides were at the same temperatures.. Now, the egg will HOLD temps better than the Weber but the amount of heat it puts out to the touch when hot is about the same.

To answer your question. I've now owned and used an egg and a keg extensively and can tell you that the keg is WAY more efficient. It's really not even in the same ball park. Having said that, I would not automatically pick a keg just because of that. I would factor in price, portability, and size needed. Also if I was going to get the keg, I would definitely spring for the loaded up 4000 model and not the stripped down version they are selling. That extra stuff is where the keg really shines.

[Bonewagon]

I always hear people talking about ceramics breaking. Has anyone actually broken one or at least know someone, first hand, who broke one? It seems to me that you would really need to have a serious mishap to break one.
I can see a firebox breaking if dropped if you were not careful.
-Kenny

Here's a relatively recent thread from a mod, bbqbull, who had some minor breakage. (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=117746) :becky:

I've gotta say that I think when we get to the level of the bge, primo, bsk, etc…that worrying about which is most insulated is splitting hairs. I don't think it matters - all are well insulated and in the right hands turn out excellent food. I bought the keg over the other cookers for reasons other than it's insulation.

I will tell you that I've had my bsk well over 800 degrees it, and while the outside of the keg was warm it wasn't hot enough to burn my hand and I could touch it comfortably, which to my mind speaks of how well it's insulated.

[jasonjax]

I also tipped my keg over while wheeling it over rough terrain. No worse for the wear.

[snakyjake]

I've now owned and used an egg and a keg extensively and can tell you that the keg is WAY more efficient.

Can you explain this a bit more. Someone else posted (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1841526&postcount=15) the temps on the Egg & Keg are about equal after about 15 minutes.

[Durzil]

So I understand there is a large price discrepancy between the BSK and Char Griller Akorn. But how do they compare? Does the Akorn have similar insulation? I have yet to see an Akorn in person but am interested in one as a Grill with ability to smoke instead of getting a performer as I had planned.

[snakyjake]

From my reading the Akorn isn't as well constructed and may have air leaks, which would affect the low and slow performance.

[hootstwo]

Well, I use mine all the time for low and slow (Akorn that is). Just 2 days ago I threw an 8lb picnic shoulder on mine for 10 hours. I set it at 260ish at 7:30AM, didn't touch it until 5:30PM (in fact was gone for the day) and it was at 264 (according to my Maverick) when I returned. (Pork was fantastic BTW).

As to how warm the exterior gets on the Chargriller: At internal temperatures lower than 400 I can place my hand (and leave it there) on the exterior, above that, it gets to the point where it would be uncomfortable to leave my hand there for any length of time.

[likeadeere]

I own neither of these- but oh, I hope so one day. But if you actually go out and do some tire kickin at a store with either the BKK or the acorn - you'll tell the difference right away. Size and quality will jump out at you. You need to get your hands on one and see for yourself.

I'd never buy a ceramic, I'd break it - just ask my wife. I'm a bull in a china store.

[BluesDaddy]

I own neither of these- but oh, I hope so one day. But if you actually go out and do some tire kickin at a store with either the BKK or the acorn - you'll tell the difference right away. Size and quality will jump out at you. You need to get your hands on one and see for yourself.

At more than double the price, the quality SHOULD jump out at you. The Akorn is pretty remarkable performer for the price point.

[schlickenmeyer]

Got a Char Griller Kamado for $222 and the thing works great, only mod I did was stuff a bit of paper in the gap on the lower slide air intake. First smoke was my first try at ribs, and she held 225 ish without much fuss. Only reason the GF got mad was she got like 2 ribs total out of it. :)
For the money I think it is a fine unit, and I will be trying some higher heat stuff soon.

[HaGrillski]

Well, I use mine all the time for low and slow (Akorn that is). Just 2 days ago I threw an 8lb picnic shoulder on mine for 10 hours. I set it at 260ish at 7:30AM, didn't touch it until 5:30PM (in fact was gone for the day) and it was at 264 (according to my Maverick) when I returned. (Pork was fantastic BTW).

As to how warm the exterior gets on the Chargriller: At internal temperatures lower than 400 I can place my hand (and leave it there) on the exterior, above that, it gets to the point where it would be uncomfortable to leave my hand there for any length of time.

I will agree to this statement whole-heartedly. I have recently purchased and Akorn and love it. I am new to serious bbq'ing but that is the exact reason I went with an Akorn. I don't expect this grill to last forever but if I get 3 or 4 years out of it and am still bbq'ing I'll have no problem buying one of the "big name" kamados but I would hate to spend all that money up-front and basically grill dogs on it.

I am very happy with my Akorn right now.

[Allegry]

My large BGE has been extremely efficient with my lump. I've not had to refuel ever during a smoke session, though I've never gone more than ~18 hours.

As far as insulation....the outside of the BGE gets hot - but probably not enough to burn you on contact. The cast iron "hat" though? That sucker gets super hot. (At least for smoking temperatures. If you crank the heat up to 800F+ I make no promises).

As far as fragility - yep, ceramics are brittle material and can break. That said, the Nest that my large is sitting in holds the Egg securely enough on my patio. I wouldn't try to move it over rough pavement in a Nest though. My BGE has been though a couple hailstorms (covered) but the ceramic and paint haven't chipped. Actually, the fabric cover is in perfect condition too.

[btcg]

That is the only way I could see one breaking. This is also why the say pull the BGE and not push it.
I'm not saying that the ceramics are not fragile it's just one of those things that I keep hearing about but never hear about anyone actually breaking one.
I'm sorry to hear about BGE. Sad indeed.
Thanks,
-Kenny


Mike (BBQBull) had his BGE lid come loose several months ago. It shattered into a number of pieces. His dealer was a stand-up guy, and got Mike a replacement.

BUT: it is a consideration.

[caseydog]

An anecdotal reference: The Buuba Keg/BSK has commerical grade oven insulation inbetween the steel interior and exterior.

The iQue 110 (recently mentioned in another thread) has to be modified to induct less air to operate properly on the BSK/Bubba Keg because the keg was "too efficient" according to the maker of the iQue110. I've not heard of similar issues with the BGE's etc.

I experienced this first hand with the 110 attached to my keg. I had to tape over some of the inlets for the fan to not get the temperature too high.

I was fairly amazed at how well the keg retained temperature and utilized such small amounts of fuel for low n slow.

All this said, I think we're arguing over miniscule differences here. Both products are amazingly efficient and perform oustandingly well.

My iQue came with a steel fender washer that goes into the hose, for use with BGEs. It basically reduces airflow by around half.

CD