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View Full Version : How do YOU personally define what is and isn't barbecue?


Lake Dogs
01-26-2012, 01:22 PM
This is a poll, and I'm going to try to pose as many opinions/beliefs as I can. It's multiple choice. Also, I'm not trying to tell you what is my definition or express my opinion and I'm not trying to convince you that I'm right (even though I always am, just ask my wife). I truly want to know how YOU personally define what is and isn't barbecue.

Boshizzle
01-26-2012, 01:33 PM
That's a hard one. I'm still working through where to draw the line between grilling and barbecuing in some cases.

For example, let's say you dig a large pit, start a big wood fire in it and let it burn down to coals, tie an eight hundred pound steer carcass to a strong spit that one or two men can turn as needed, suspend it over the fire and proceed to cook it for about eight to 12 hours. I doubt that all of the beef would be tender enough to pull and some of it might even be rare. Now, to me that's barbecue even though the meat may only be cooked as much as would be done when grilling a tri-tip.

So, maybe cook time is a main factor. I'll have to get back to you on it. :cool:

Phubar
01-26-2012, 01:38 PM
I call it BBQ when my Phood has been smoked.

HeSmellsLikeSmoke
01-26-2012, 01:40 PM
Actual wood smoke from a live fire has to be involved somewhere in the cooking process for me to consider it to BBQ.

bigabyte
01-26-2012, 01:43 PM
A cooking method (not a preservation method) using smoke from wood (be it actual wood, charcoal or pellets) passing over the food while it cooks.

nmayeux
01-26-2012, 01:49 PM
A method of cooking meat using wood and wood smoke at a low temperature for a long period of time.

CarolinaQue
01-26-2012, 01:56 PM
I believe that it's a combination of things. It's not so much about process for me as it is the end product. I also feel that there is a difference between "BBQ" and "smoked" foods.

To me, BBQ is made with the process of heat, smoke, and traditional cuts of meat such as pork butt, picnic shoulder, brisket, ribs and other large cuts of meat. Smoked to me are the smaller cuts such as tenderloin, loin, chicken, tri-tip, fish...that sort of thing. And some of these cuts, you can also grill. And then you have the flavor profiles and cultural influences involved.

I guess it would also depend on what part of the country or world I am in at the time. Maybe I've just seen to much of the different types to really put a definition on it?

I think that I just love to eat it...no matter what some one else might call it!!!

Gore
01-26-2012, 02:02 PM
I'm still waiting on that poll. I'm not an expert, but I do know that we had a similar post a few days ago. Sir John did a lot of research on the subject of BBQ, and I think I'd like to pass along his research results.

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=124748

Backstory

I have had a bit of fun lately with some of the threads, declaring what is BBQ and what is not BBQ.

Some of it tongue-in-cheek, some of it due to where I was raised.

I am not an expert by any means, but I do dabble in competition BBQ, backyard BBQ and cooking in general.

So I have done some thinking, and I have done some research, this post will reveal what I found.

Barbecue, Bar-B-Q, Bar-b-que

Dictionary.Com

bar·be·cue


I'm not exactly sure what this all means, but I'm sensing some commonality in the spelling of the first syllable. :thumb: It almost seems to me that if someone says it is BBQ, then who am I to argue? I'd much rather enjoy the company, drink their beer and eat their food than insult my host.

Yeah, I could argue from one of many countless different historical perspectives (whether it be Spanish-Caribbean, NC, or VA, etc.) and bring up minor technicalities, some of them based on the actual word "barbecue" (or various spellings), but we all know that meanings change. Every culture has cooked food over fire and many of the techniques are slow-cooked, so unless we restrict ourselves to the actual word barbecue or barbacoa, then we must deal specifically with a definition based on lexicon. Therefore, if it has some variation of the word "barbecue" in the title, then it must be barbecue. I'm probably in the minority here. :becky:

Boshizzle
01-26-2012, 02:06 PM
Uncle Sam adds that the meat must lose at least 30% of its weight after it's cooked to be considered barbecue. So, that's something to ponder.


9 C.F.R. § 319.80 Barbecued meats.
Title 9 - Animals and Animal Products

Barbecue meat, such as a product labeled beef barbecue or barbecue pork, shall be cooked by the direct action of dry heat resulting from the burning of hard wood or hot coals thereof for a sufficient period of time to assume the usual characteristics of a barbecued article, which includes the formation of a brown crust on the surface and the rendering of surface fat. The product may be basted with a sauce during the cooking process. The weight of the cooked meat shall not exceed 70% of the weight of the fresh, uncooked meat.

http://law.justia.com/cfr/title09/9-2.0.2.1.20.3.21.1.html

bover
01-26-2012, 02:09 PM
http://cdn.sheknows.com/articles/2010/10/mcrib.jpg

:flame:Flame on!

Lake Dogs
01-26-2012, 02:20 PM
Dangit, I missed that one Bover!

Sorry guys, it took me a while to get that poll actually posted as a poll. It's there now.

This is an honest question. I know what it is and isn't to me, and there are some very gray points that I bring up above (gray in my mind anyway).

Gore
01-26-2012, 02:23 PM
I'm confused. What isn't traditional BBQ meat?

Are you referring to tofu or is there something else?

Lake Dogs
01-26-2012, 02:26 PM
Had a tough time fitting every entry in 100 chars. That's certainly up to you, what you'd call traditional barbecue meat. I dont think anyone would say that tofu is a traditional barbecue meat. I think most would agree that pork ribs probably are a traditional barbecue meat. Again, the question is really up to you, what is your definition?

Meaning some think if it's not pork it's not traditional. Some say it's brisket and pork, but not something else. The questions towards the bottom then ask some of those....

bigabyte
01-26-2012, 02:27 PM
Any meat, any temp, indoors or out, as long as the smoke of some form of burning wood passes over the meat as it cooks (and it must cook, not simply heat to food safe as in cured meats).

I consider beans BBQ, and since they are vegetables...I guess it does not have to be meat really.

Lake Dogs
01-26-2012, 02:32 PM
I'd love to see a few hundred of us actually answer this in the poll. I have my conjecture, but I'd love to see it. I also have my opinion of what is and isn't, and I'll vote like anyone else.

Over the last few years there's been interesting arguments for this and that at competitions, and some of those arguments have to do with how we individually define to ourselves what IS and ISN'T barbecue in our own minds. I'm just trying to see where the pendulum swings...

Gore
01-26-2012, 02:33 PM
If someone cures a brisket and boils it and makes corned beef and cabbage, I think I would have trouble calling that barbecue even though it is a traditional BBQ meat (except in NC). Actually, I don't see a strict NC definition.

Phubar
01-26-2012, 02:35 PM
Any meat, any temp, indoors or out, as long as the smoke of some form of burning wood passes over the meat as it cooks (and it must cook, not simply heat to food safe as in cured meats).

I consider beans BBQ, and since they are vegetables...I guess it does not have to be meat really.


I love some smoked (BBQ'd) mashed (sweet) potato.....


http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv96/phubar/SmokeFest%2022-01-12/IMG_8583.jpg

Lake Dogs
01-26-2012, 02:39 PM
If someone cures a brisket and boils it and makes corned beef and cabbage, I think I would have trouble calling that barbecue even though it is a traditional BBQ meat (except in NC). Actually, I don't see a strict NC definition.


I tried to get close to the NC definition with:

above was close, but barbecue must be only traditional barbecue meats like brisket or pork

Lake Dogs
01-26-2012, 02:41 PM
Notice I didnt say "is it good food", or bad food. I'm asking, in your individual mind, even if your mind is somewhat cloudy as a result of drinking BONG WATER (Gore), is it "barbecue" to you?

Only you can answer this.

Boshizzle
01-26-2012, 02:46 PM
I'd say that if "traditional meats" are to be used as a criteria for "real" BBQ then we need to redefine "traditional meats."

Here is an ad I found doing some research for a project. It's a Henry Perry Ad from The Kansas City Sun, Kansas City, December 22, 1917.


http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=326&pictureid=4976

Lake Dogs
01-26-2012, 02:48 PM
I'd say that if "traditional meats" are to be used as a criteria for "real" BBQ then we need to redefine "traditional meats."

Here is an ad I found doing some research for a project. It's a Henry Perry Ad from The Kansas City Sun, Kansas City, December 22, 1917.


http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=326&pictureid=4976

As beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I left the definition up to the individual. This way the NC purists can stick to their definition, the Texas mutants to theirs, etc. :-)

What is and isn't traditional bbq meat is another good poll...

Bogus Chezz Hawg
01-26-2012, 02:49 PM
For me, BBQ is food cooked indirectly or slowly using hardwood (whatever variation) as a heat source, allowing smoke from the heat source to add smoke flavor to the food.

BBQ is not food cooked directly over hardwood quickly, such as burgers.
BBQ is not food cooked in a regular oven, crock-pot, etc... with BBQ sauce added for smokey flavor.
BBQ is not a McRib sandwich from McDonald's. :laugh:

QDoc
01-26-2012, 02:57 PM
BBQ is smoke infused meat cooked by slow roasting or indirectly over a wood burning heat source. Period.

Phubar
01-26-2012, 03:03 PM
A Phish (Philet) smoked for about a halPh hour....

nmayeux
01-26-2012, 03:03 PM
For me, BBQ is food cooked indirectly or slowly using hardwood (whatever variation) as a heat source, allowing smoke from the heat source to add smoke flavor to the food.

BBQ is not food cooked directly over hardwood quickly, such as burgers.
BBQ is not food cooked in a regular oven, crock-pot, etc... with BBQ sauce added for smokey flavor.
BBQ is not a McRib sandwich from McDonald's. :laugh:Yup. Indirect is very important.

landarc
01-26-2012, 03:06 PM
I liked Bigabyte's first description, but, then he went and added beans, which I don't consider BBQ in one sense. I have two ways of looking at it. One is that it is meat cooked over a live fire, with smoke as a component of flavor, heat provided by any means, but, preferably a live fire and with the elements of time and heat combining to cook meat.

The other falls in line with Gore, which is to say that BBQ, or barbeque is all about the lexicon, as any language or word is, in which communication and common use come into play. While I might not consider pork cooked in the oven and and then grilled, or pork butt cooked in a crock pot to be BBQ, I am not going to ruin someone's efforts by arguing with them.

BTW, as the biggest advocate of tofu on the Brethren, I do not believe you can BBQ tofu, vegetables or beans :tsk:. They can be cooked in a smoker, or served with BBQ sauce, but, I am thinking it needs to be meat. I will not, and have not, busted folks who served me BBQ vegetarian ribs, as the effort and care they put into the meal is the same, I see no need to correct what is, in some ways, perfectly acceptable use of a word.

bigabyte
01-26-2012, 03:09 PM
Veggie haters.:tsk:

Kathy's Smokin'
01-26-2012, 03:26 PM
My opinion is that it is a widespread term and it takes specific meanings depending on what country and region you are in. I read Meathead's article about it on the AmazingRibs.com website and I think he showed just how regional the word is. He also brought up a good point about that gubmint definition -- direct cooking -- makes you wonder about a definition that is in such opposition to what "the people" say it's about.

I'm Canadian and had no idea how controversial this term was until less than a year ago when I started going to BBQ websites and forums. In Canada, BBQ is grilling with coal or propane for the majority. Wood for some. Now that I've been "educated" on so many fronts, I've changed my personal definition to:

Anything edible cooked outdoors with some kind of fire and smoke, direct or indirect, where a lot of joking, happiness and extreme bliss persists.

Vision
01-26-2012, 03:29 PM
That poll scares me.

To me bbq is food cooked outside with wood smoke. It is not grilling.

Boshizzle
01-26-2012, 03:29 PM
If indirect is a criteria then that eliminates the old in ground pit cooked meats and several BBQ meccas in Texas.

bigabyte
01-26-2012, 03:32 PM
If indirect is a criteria then that eliminates the old in ground pit cooked meats and several BBQ meccas in Texas.
Yup. Goodbye traditional NC whole hog pit BBQ's.

Kathy's Smokin'
01-26-2012, 03:37 PM
BBQ is not a McRib sandwich from McDonald's. :laugh:

I tried a McRib last spring just for the heck of it to see what it was about and it was a massive disappointment. They should be ashamed of the whopping lies in their commercials. :mad2:

Ron_L
01-26-2012, 03:37 PM
If indirect is a criteria then that eliminates the old in ground pit cooked meats and several BBQ meccas in Texas.

It also eliminates the UDS and the WSM without a water pan and anything similar.

Bogus Chezz Hawg
01-26-2012, 03:38 PM
BTW, as the biggest advocate of tofu on the Brethren, I do not believe you can BBQ tofu, vegetables or beans :tsk:. They can be cooked in a smoker, or served with BBQ sauce, but, I am thinking it needs to be meat.

I heard a story on the news a month or two ago about estrogen levels in soy. The story went on to say that some men can grow small breasts from consuming too much soy. So I just found this...

http://www.menshealth.com/nutrition/soys-negative-effects

And also problems too much soy may cause for women & children...

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=soybean-fertility-hormone-isoflavones-genistein

All I will say about these articles is this...
If there is even an ounce of truth to this, is it worth eating tofu and growing man boobs? :crazy:

I think not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Zin
01-26-2012, 04:16 PM
Direct heat = Grilling, Indirect heat = BBQ

nmayeux
01-26-2012, 04:32 PM
The UDS and WSM have enough space between the fire and the grate to be considered indirect. It's not like grilling in a kettle where the food is in close contact with the fire.
It also eliminates the UDS and the WSM without a water pan and anything similar.

Gore
01-26-2012, 04:34 PM
"What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet."

Lake Dogs
01-26-2012, 05:03 PM
You pot stirrer you! Definitely NOT trying to debate. I mean, our own opinion is our own opinion, all worthy. I'll bet that of the 15+- votes so far that not one of those votes are exactly the same. No doubt, by any other name would smell as sweet, I'm just trying to see if you call it a rose or not.

:decision:

Ron_L
01-26-2012, 05:10 PM
The UDS and WSM have enough space between the fire and the grate to be considered indirect. It's not like grilling in a kettle where the food is in close contact with the fire.

So distance is a factor? All of the definitions of direct heat talk about cooking over the heat source. Distance isn't mentioned. I understand your point, but if we're going to use the distinction between direct and indirect to define BBQ then we have to include cooking direct, but at a sufficient distance from the heat source, in the definition of what is BBQ.

nmayeux
01-26-2012, 05:31 PM
So distance is a factor? All of the definitions of direct heat talk about cooking over the heat source. Distance isn't mentioned. I understand your point, but if we're going to use the distinction between direct and indirect to define BBQ then we have to include cooking direct, but at a sufficient distance from the heat source, in the definition of what is BBQ.

Maybe we just say that the meat is cooked at a relatively low temperature, and dodge the direct thing alltogether?

Groundhog66
01-26-2012, 05:34 PM
Sauced = BBQ

Sans Sauce = Not BBQ

Ron_L
01-26-2012, 05:43 PM
Sauced = BBQ

Sans Sauce = Not BBQ

So the dry ribs I ate in Memphis aren't BBQ? :-D

Hell Fire Grill
01-26-2012, 05:54 PM
They should have called beans a fruit while they had the chance..................but its too late now.

Groundhog66
01-26-2012, 06:00 PM
So the dry ribs I ate in Memphis aren't BBQ? :-D


Precisely :becky:

Lake Dogs
01-26-2012, 06:29 PM
So the dry ribs I ate in Memphis aren't BBQ? :-D

Gopher ribs?

:loco:

Gore
01-26-2012, 07:07 PM
Well that was sure a logic test with such a mixture of inclusionary and exclusionary statements, phew!

BTW, who is Myron Mixon? Is that someone I should know?

Boshizzle
01-26-2012, 07:16 PM
Apparently, BBQ is a large field with groups and sub-groups. However, with all of its variations it seems that everyone agrees that cooking meat over a low temp charcoal/wood or wood fire that imparts a smokey flavor to the meat for a long time is BBQ.

After that, there are many variables such as direct, indirect, type of food (meat or veggy), level of doneness/tenderness, fat rendering, bark, and fuel such as charcoal, gas, wood, or pellets. And at any given time, somewhere in the world there are people who call any combination of those components barbecue.

I'm pretty satisfied in my own thinking of what barbecue is except in the situation I described above with the pit and the steer. I suppose the same problem would arise when talking about "barbecue" chicken or "barbecue" fish. But, it's hard to argue that cooking those foods low and slow over a wood fire isn't barbecue. Also, I'm not so sure that you have to cook barbecue "low and slow." Hot and fast produces a very good barbecue with the smokieness, juiciness, and the tenderness that low and slow is known for.

landarc
01-26-2012, 07:31 PM
Well, hot and fast at 300F is not really hot and fast in the world of roasting meats. When I was learning classical technique, meats were often roasted at 400F and much higher, 300F was considered to be a low temperature for normal roasting.

bbqbull
01-26-2012, 07:34 PM
Too many choices for me to read through, Moderator mode here.

Saiko
01-26-2012, 07:40 PM
Didn't really see an exact choice for me. Kind of like what a few people have already said, if it's cooked over an indirect wood/charcoal source, no matter what the temps, I "may" classify it as BBQ depending on the meat. Indirect could mean just the space between the heat source and the food, or some type of diffuser or offset firebox.
The classics are obviously ribs, pulled pork, brisket and chicken. The others I would have to take as case by case basis. For example, fish I would never classify as BBQ (although obviously you could have smoked fish).
Chuckies I would classify as BBQ.

boogiesnap
01-26-2012, 07:56 PM
i'm surprised by the last batch of categories getting so many votes.

i can cook ribs/shoulder/brisket/beans/chicken or whathaveyou "right" in a crockpot in the kitchen.

that is far from BBQ. IMHO.

Boshizzle
01-26-2012, 08:12 PM
i'm surprised by the last batch of categories getting so many votes.

i can cook ribs/shoulder/brisket/beans/chicken or whathaveyou "right" in a crockpot in the kitchen.

that is far from BBQ. IMHO.

Ah, the ol' crock pot. This week, a good friend gave me some NC style pork "BBQ" that his wife cooked in a crock pot. I accepted it, ate it, and praised it greatly and thanked him for it.

But, I didn't really think it was barbecue. I would never say something that might insult him or his wife. But, it sure was some good slow cooked pork with vinegar, crushed red pepper, and garlic in it.

Al Czervik
01-26-2012, 10:16 PM
Therefore, if it has some variation of the word "barbecue" in the title, then it must be barbecue.

Especially if it's Nacho BBQ! :mrgreen:

Boshizzle
01-26-2012, 10:18 PM
Nacho BBQ is another man's BBQ.

Gore
01-27-2012, 12:12 AM
i'm surprised by the last batch of categories getting so many votes.

i can cook ribs/shoulder/brisket/beans/chicken or whathaveyou "right" in a crockpot in the kitchen.

that is far from BBQ. IMHO.

I believe the last batch got so many votes because they are inclusionary. Many of the questions in the first batch are exclusionary. For example, questions in the last batch are of the type "Pork is BBQ." If you also believe that beef is BBQ, it is ok to check that; whereas, questions in the beginning are the inverse, like "BBQ is pork." If you also believe that beef is BBQ, then you cannot check this. I'm not sure if this was on purpose or not.

Lake Dogs
01-27-2012, 06:35 AM
Correct, I tried a couple of different ways to see what we all thought. As it ended up, the bottom should get quite a few votes. In the top section more often than not we'll individually hopefully find at least one choice (Saiko, Yours is up there but the wording is a bit fried; sorry) or two that fit your needs...

timzcardz
01-27-2012, 07:02 AM
IMHO, who cares?

If you have so much time to spend debating what is or isn't BBQ then you simply aren't spending enough time actually smoking/cooking/BBQing it.

If it tastes good, then it may just be BBQ to someone.

If it taste like chit, then it is chit, no matter what you chose to call it.

Lake Dogs
01-27-2012, 07:58 AM
IMHO, who cares?

If you have so much time to spend debating what is or isn't BBQ then you simply aren't spending enough time actually smoking/cooking/BBQing it.

If it tastes good, then it may just be BBQ to someone.

If it taste like chit, then it is chit, no matter what you chose to call it.


All correct. However, if you were to create a game, a game this is a barbecue competition, you'd want to define the game, it's parameters, and subsequently what "barbecue" goes in/with the game. And so goes every barbecue competition sanctioning body. Some are struggling with issues right now that actually bring up questions and notions like I'm asking.

You're 100% correct, it may not be "barbecue" to me but very well could be "barbecue" to someone else. That's perfectly fine, and that's the very reason I'm asking, to YOU, as you personally define/feel, what is your opinion. That it doesnt matter (to you, and I get that) really doesnt answer the question. And, it's an honest question.

SmokinOkie
01-27-2012, 08:41 AM
... you'd want to define the game, it's parameters, and subsequently what "barbecue" goes in/with the game. ...

Defining BBQ and Competition BBQ are slightly different objectives so your statement is expanding the purpose of the poll. To me, the methods in competition are at question. Meat glue, scraping chicken skin, on and on.

BBQ is in the eye of the beholder. I've seen these debates in the Internet for 15+ years. No one's right, no one's wrong. I'm personally not going to try to convince anyone else of my definition of Q.

It's food, it's fun and when it gets to definition and turning serious, I'm heading out to my deck this weekend and cook some Q :-D

Warthog
01-27-2012, 08:45 AM
Uhh wots BBQ? :crazy:

timzcardz
01-27-2012, 10:23 AM
to YOU, as you personally define/feel, what is your opinion. That it doesnt matter (to you, and I get that) really doesnt answer the question. And, it's an honest question.

And that it doesn't matter to me is also an honest answer.

And it does answer the question, "How do You personally define what is and isn't barbecue?"

I personally DON'T define it, as to define it would be to limit it and its potential.

Dr_KY
01-27-2012, 10:51 AM
Curve ball...

Anyone figure out the definition of REAL BBQ yet?

It's thrown around over here like nobody's business and I find it annoying.

Lake Dogs
01-27-2012, 11:23 AM
C'mon, you KNOW that Real BBQ is a result of _________________________

kihrer
01-27-2012, 01:16 PM
All correct. However, if you were to create a game, a game this is a barbecue competition, you'd want to define the game, it's parameters, and subsequently what "barbecue" goes in/with the game. And so goes every barbecue competition sanctioning body. Some are struggling with issues right now that actually bring up questions and notions like I'm asking.



If "I" were to create the game/contest (which I have no real desire to do other than on the Brethren Forum), I would like it to include:

Pork Shoulder (you could separate if you so desired).
Brisket
Pork ribs
Sausage (cause the way I was raised, chicken was only available at a BBQ joint for those people who don't like real BBQ):becky:
and Whole Hog as a separate category for those who want to take it on.

Garnish would be outlawed:thumb:

I would allow people to inject, rub, marinate, brine and otherwise tinker with their meat before arriving just like folks do at home when they are throwing a party or serving the family. Pre-cooking would not be allowed.

Since I like charcoal/wood, I'd limit it to cookers that only used that for fuel. I probably wouldn't allow electric temp control devices as I believe it adds to the challenge when you manage your fire. Not saying anyone is less of a pitmaster for using such devices but after all, this is how "I" would do it.

All that being said, I am happy with the KCBS rules and I am glad I am not in charge of making up the game.