View Full Version : The ~thirdeye~ Nova Lox Adventure Is Underway...
thirdeye
12-31-2011, 10:17 AM
... and if I fark this one up, I swear this will be the last batch I make this year. :mrgreen:
The salmon quality was not good at the first two markets...., so I called Sam's to see when theirs arrived (it's usually skinless and I prefer skin-on), the guy said "it just showed up along with some steelhead". "Skin on I asked?", "Salmon no, steelhead yes" was the reply. I hauled ash up there and scored three nice sides of steelhead, about 7 pounds total.
It has wonderful fat content is very thick. Only one small piece will become Nova Lox, the tails I will reserve for pan frying or grilling, the rest I will use my old reliable dry cure and hot smoke method.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/thirdeye2/Barbecue%2014/DSC02848aa.jpg
The belly strips will only cure for 4 hours, they are only 3/8" thick and always higher in fat so I'll make them into a salmon jerky kind of thing. I cut the fillets in half, one of the halves will become lox.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/thirdeye2/Barbecue%2014/DSC02849aaa.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/thirdeye2/Barbecue%2014/DSC02852aaa.jpg
If you saw the Nova Lox thread 8 or 10 days ago, you know I've been on a quest for recipes and was overwhelmed with different varieties of lox as well as numerous recipes and methods. I'm doing a dry cure/brine cure/ soak-out/ long rest/cold smoke kind of thing, and this is my first attempt at making lox.
Here the lox following a dry cure, a brine cure, the soak out and a light seasoning with white pepper, black pepper, and dill weed. It most likely won't hit the cold smoker until late today or early Sunday. Then it needs to chill out again for 8 hours of so before sampling..... Monday morning with some bagels and cream cheese sounds like the plan for now. If it goes bad, Plan B is using it for cut bait on my next ice fishing trip. This way I know I will catch something I like to eat. :mrgreen:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/thirdeye2/Barbecue%2014/DSC02861aa.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/thirdeye2/Barbecue%2014/DSC02862aacc.jpg
:pop2:
PS I love salmon candy. :hungry:
colonel00
12-31-2011, 11:44 AM
Subscribed and waiting as patiently as I can
Is it done yet?
How about now???
cmcadams
12-31-2011, 11:54 AM
Nice start, and great looking flesh!
Skidder
12-31-2011, 12:35 PM
Yup I too am all over this one.
bigabyte
12-31-2011, 12:49 PM
Looking forward to the results!
expatpig
12-31-2011, 02:30 PM
Can't wait to see it.
BBQ Bandit
12-31-2011, 02:33 PM
Nice!
stubshaft
12-31-2011, 04:29 PM
Looking good can't wait to see the finished product.
Ron_L
12-31-2011, 04:39 PM
I don't think I've seen Nova lox with dill (or any seasoning for that matter). Gravlox (the Norwegian version of lox) has dill, but the Nova lox that I get in the delis around here is just cold smoked after the brine and cure.
thirdeye
12-31-2011, 06:06 PM
I don't think I've seen Nova lox with dill (or any seasoning for that matter). Gravlox (the Norwegian version of lox) has dill, but the Nova lox that I get in the delis around here is just cold smoked after the brine and cure.
One thing I noticed from the get go was the way terms were interchanged between the British Isles, Ireland, Norway, Scotland, Scandinavia, Nova Scotia, Canada, and the US. Then there was a big swing in terms from coast to coast. Regardless of the name, some recipes are the essentially the same. For example, I got recipes from three different folks that called the combination of dry cure, dill, pepper and vodka gravlox, Scottish lox and Nova Lox.
I even traced the name lox back to "lachs" the German name for salmon and found an article stating that Germans were in fact responsible for the popularity of using milder cures, which later became Nova Lox. This was interesting because early on in my searching, I played my hole card and contacted my friend who lives in Nova Scotia, asking for an authentic recipe for Nova Lox. She sent an email saying "no body around here I know makes the stuff". She is still asking around.
The common denominators, and where I began to sketch in a recipe and method was that the majority of my sources did agree that Nova Lox was a milder cure, often a double cure (dry and wet), and it is cold smoked. Because so many of the lox recipes I found called for dill (some very heavily coated) I decided to give mine a light sprinkle, more for appearance sake than anything else.
Ron_L
12-31-2011, 06:14 PM
One thing I noticed from the get go was the way terms were interchanged between the British Isles, Ireland, Norway, Scotland, Scandinavia, Nova Scotia, Canada, and the US. Then there was a big swing in terms from coast to coast. Regardless of the name, some recipes are the essentially the same. For example, I got recipes from three different folks that called the combination of dry cure, dill, pepper and vodka gravlox, Scottish lox and Nova Lox.
I even traced the name lox back to "lachs" the German name for salmon and found an article stating that Germans were in fact responsible for the popularity of using milder cures, which later became Nova Lox. This was interesting because early on in my searching, I played my hole card and contacted my friend who lives in Nova Scotia, asking for an authentic recipe for Nova Lox. She sent an email saying "no body around here I know makes the stuff". She is still asking around.
The common denominators, and where I began to sketch in a recipe and method was that the majority of my sources did agree that Nova Lox was a milder cure, often a double cure (dry and wet), and it is cold smoked. Because so many of the lox recipes I found called for dill (some very heavily coated) I decided to give mine a light sprinkle, more for appearance sake than anything else.
I should have known that you would do your research first :-D
In the little research that I have done I found that Nova Lox were originated in New York using salmon from Nova Scotia, so that may be why your friend can't find anyone there who makes them. :)
buccaneer
12-31-2011, 06:34 PM
That species of Nova Scotia salmon is extinct, fished out.
Looking forward to the process thirdeye, love your stuff!
The origin of lox is Yiddish, from the Yiddish word for salmon, 'Laks'.
Stands to reason, they were using salt cures in step with their beliefs that it was an aphrodisiac and in step with their religious rituals...and doing so long before there was a 'Germany'.
Institutionalized religions LOVE their lay people to be prolific in reproducing as it grows the religion.
I'm subscribing, looking forward to seeing it!
Not the religion thing, the salmon thing sheesh
thirdeye
12-31-2011, 06:42 PM
I should have known that you would do your research first :-D
In the little research that I have done I found that Nova Lox were originated in New York using salmon from Nova Scotia, so that may be why your friend can't find anyone there who makes them. :)
And part of the history I turned up indicated that many Europeans liked the mild cure (which the Germans may have had a hand in making popular, especially in their beer halls), and that due to a shortage of North Sea Salmon, German merchants imported Pacific salmon from the US and Canada... but they didn't like the hard cure and requested a milder cure. About the same time, emigrants from Europe were arriving in the US, mostly around New York and the East coast. They too demanded a milder form of smoked salmon than what was available here.... which ties into your research. To them the name Nova Lox indicated a milder, less salty product. And of course, the salmon could have come from the Nova Scotia fishing grounds.
Brauma
12-31-2011, 06:53 PM
http://www.cre8asiteforums.com/forums/uploads/post-3012-1185415263.gif I'm lovin it.
thirdeye
12-31-2011, 06:59 PM
That species of Nova Scotia salmon is extinct, fished out.
Looking forward to the process thirdeye, love your stuff!
The origin of lox is Yiddish, from the Yiddish word for salmon, 'Laks'.
Stands to reason, they were using salt cures in step with their beliefs that it was an aphrodisiac and in step with their religious rituals...and doing so long before there was a 'Germany'.
Institutionalized religions LOVE their lay people to be prolific in reproducing as it grows the religion.
I'm subscribing, looking forward to seeing it!
Not the religion thing, the salmon thing sheesh
Awright.... I knew there was going to be a curve ball in this discussion sooner or later. I'll add the Yiddish word "laks" and lox origin to the developing story.
Ron_L
12-31-2011, 07:19 PM
Well, if you believe this site...
http://www.finesalmon.com/Salmon_Food/History_of_Lox.asp
The term “lox” comes from Lachs, the German word for salmon.
chicagokp
12-31-2011, 08:13 PM
:pop2: waiting patiently for your results!
buccaneer
12-31-2011, 08:16 PM
Well, if you believe this site...
http://www.finesalmon.com/Salmon_Food/History_of_Lox.aspSame wording on many websites and I have no dog in this fight at all as they say, just passing along what I decided after reading, it isn't important and we can't know for sure.
Websites aplenty place it as German from Lachs, but they too often have the same wording.
That is how we get misdirection, one copies another.
I decided that some of the stuff I read was more plausible, after all, Germany is a reasonably new country and a salmon website or others similar don't seem to have realized that. Makes their info and research a bit dodgy in my eyes.
If they said Germanian it would be more plausible maybe, but since the "Yids" have been doing it for so long, longer than the Germans have existed, I found it more plausible that the 'Germans' learned it from them, or at least learned it after them.
Whatever, I am so looking forward to the process and not invested in whichever is correct, just a curious personality and sharing my thoughts.
Plenty of Australians believe they invented the meat pie and yet it goes way back to the Romans, Greeks and Africans.
The expression "As American as apple pie" makes people think apple pie IS American, and it isn't at all.
It is just interesting and a bit of trivia fun, it isn't important as say, eating an apple pie! :hungry:
Let's get this Lox on the road!:-D
Boshizzle
12-31-2011, 08:22 PM
Off to a great start! Can't wait for more. :thumb:
Midnight Smoke
12-31-2011, 08:41 PM
It looks like it will be very good. I am just trying to figure what it is in English. :doh:
thirdeye
12-31-2011, 08:53 PM
Yeah buccaneer, I tend to agree with you about how some stories drift. One of my favorite authors is George Herter, some of you may remember the name "Herter's", it was a popular mail order sporting goods company for 40 or 50 years. My Grandpaw bought a lot of stuff from them. Their catalog was cool. They sold fishing lures, guns and ammo, duck and turkey calls,camping equipment, pocket knives, boots, etc. Anyways, George was also an author, hunter, world traveler and cooked as a hobby, although for years the only place you could buy his books was from the catalog. His most famous book is "Bull Cook and Authentic Historical Recipes and Practices”. It is chocked full of oddball information, some clearly reeks of BS, but the way he writes it you believe it..... I did for years.
His quotes and some stories are called "Herterisms"..... One minute he tells you how to field dress a rhinoceros with only a razor blade and a shoe horn, the next minute he'll tell you that it was the Duke of Salisbury who invented salisbury steak, or explain that if you eat enough chile peppers you would be immune to atomic radiation. In one of his books he recommends frying a little bit of hamburger in a skillet before frying a ham steak and claims it will taste better.... and it does. I have about 6 of his books..... maybe I'll see what George has to say about lox.
thirdeye
12-31-2011, 09:30 PM
The steelhead I dry cured, cold smoked for 5 hours, then finished by hot smoking is all done. Meanwhile the piece of lox will rest overnight before cold smoking tomorrow. I did sample a thin slice and like the texture and flavor. It has sort of jelled (for lack of a better word), but I'm sure it will be set even tighter by morning. Here is the cold/hot smoked stuff.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/thirdeye2/Barbecue%2014/DSC02869aa.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/thirdeye2/Barbecue%2014/DSC02870aaa.jpg
colonel00
12-31-2011, 10:09 PM
Fantastic :hungry:
buccaneer
12-31-2011, 10:23 PM
Yeah buccaneer, I tend to agree with you about how some stories drift. One of my favorite authors is George Herter, some of you may remember the name "Herter's", it was a popular mail order sporting goods company for 40 or 50 years. My Grandpaw bought a lot of stuff from them. Their catalog was cool. They sold fishing lures, guns and ammo, duck and turkey calls,camping equipment, pocket knives, boots, etc. Anyways, George was also an author, hunter, world traveler and cooked as a hobby, although for years the only place you could buy his books was from the catalog. His most famous book is "Bull Cook and Authentic Historical Recipes and Practices”. It is chocked full of oddball information, some clearly reeks of BS, but the way he writes it you believe it..... I did for years.
His quotes and some stories are called "Herterisms"..... One minute he tells you how to field dress a rhinoceros with only a razor blade and a shoe horn, the next minute he'll tell you that it was the Duke of Salisbury who invented salisbury steak, or explain that if you eat enough chile peppers you would be immune to atomic radiation. In one of his books he recommends frying a little bit of hamburger in a skillet before frying a ham steak and claims it will taste better.... and it does. I have about 6 of his books..... maybe I'll see what George has to say about lox.
:laugh:thirdeye that is GOLD!:laugh:
Ron_L
12-31-2011, 10:24 PM
It looks like it came out great!
Very delicious looking, Wayne! Have you ever been to New York, and tried some really great Jewish deli Nova lox on a bagel with a "schmear" (or yiddish "shmir")? Oh my goodness! Makes me homesick! Can't wait to hear how all of yours tastes. I'm following carefully. :wink:
Phrasty
01-01-2012, 02:33 AM
Amazing stuff! Waiting to see the lox... :becky:
Cheers
thirdeye
01-01-2012, 09:01 AM
It looks like it came out great!
Ron, those photos were of my normal dry cure hot smoked fish method, the only change was that I cold smoked the fish for several hours first (mostly so I could get a feel for how my new cold smoking tray will perform prior to cold smoking the one piece of lox today). I started all the prep at the same time, but since the lox gets that additional wet brine, the timetable for it is behind the other pieces of steelhead. With my regular method I need about 20 hours of prep time and I'm ready to hit the smoker. The Nova lox needs closer to 30 or 35 hours of prep time before going to the smoker. I'm still going to sample it before it is smoked, so I can experience it that way too.
Very delicious looking, Wayne! Have you ever been to New York, and tried some really great Jewish deli Nova lox on a bagel with a "schmear" (or yiddish "shmir")? Oh my goodness! Makes me homesick! Can't wait to hear how all of yours tastes. I'm following carefully. :wink:
No, I've been to Boston once, and to the east coast of Florida once, that's my experience on that end of the States. However, I have visited many Deli's in larger midwestern cities which claim to be "authentic".... that said I have most likely have only been close to the real thing. It's like eating Tex-Mex in San Antonio, then eating at a Tex-Mex restaurant in Fargo..... It's just not the same.
By the way, what is a Schmear? I need to get the most out of my sampling.
bluetang
01-01-2012, 09:15 AM
Man that looks good. The color is gorgeous.
chicagokp
01-01-2012, 09:18 AM
A schmear is the cream cheese spread on the bagel.
chicagokp
01-01-2012, 09:19 AM
Looks great. Making me hungry.
thirdeye
01-01-2012, 10:07 AM
A schmear is the cream cheese spread on the bagel.
That makes perfect sense.
Randbo
01-01-2012, 10:15 AM
I am guessing you are going to enjoy the old style smoked the best. It all looks great.
thirdeye
01-01-2012, 10:17 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/thirdeye2/Barbecue%2014/DSC02879aacc.jpg
My worst fear has come true. I should have made more of the lox. I like it.... :mrgreen:.
I wanted to test the lox out in it's cured-only form, and it has now been resting for 22 hours. Since the hot smoked fish came out of the smoker last night, it too was ready for testing.
The lox is not salty, has a slight fish flavor, but not fishy (if that makes sense), and I'm at a loss of words on the texture. Gelatin comes to mind, but that's not exactly it. It's not sticky, and not chewy either.
The cross section view reality shows the transformation and the cure effect. This morning, it's getting the cold smoke....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/thirdeye2/Barbecue%2014/DSC02876aa.jpg
Randbo
01-01-2012, 10:25 AM
Hmm, I am surprised! I figured a guy home on the range,old school. Glad you are enjoying it.
rabeb25
01-01-2012, 11:27 AM
I am actually following your curing guide as we speak on some steelhead. Did you like the cold smoking prior to hot smoking, or should I just stick to the hot(170ish) smoking instead? I have the ability to do either (or both).
Thanks
thirdeye
01-01-2012, 11:48 AM
I am actually following your curing guide as we speak on some steelhead. Did you like the cold smoking prior to hot smoking, or should I just stick to the hot(170ish) smoking instead? I have the ability to do either (or both).
Thanks
Well, it was cold outside and I had set my smoking cold tray inside my Big Chief and did not have the Big Chief plugged in. So this was really cold smoking..... I took a temp of the fish after 3 hours and it was 35°. I went a total of 5 hours in the cold smoke and the fish temp was only 45° when I moved it to my Egg for hot smoking. It took another 2 or 3 hours for the fish to get the internal to 150°. I do like the final product very much, I can't say it's a better than my normal method of trying to stay between 140° and 180° for the whole time.
Normally when using the Big Chief this time of the year (late fall & winter) I can keep the temp under 100° by simply unplugging it every 30 minutes, then plugging it back in in 10 minutes. I do this routine for 2 hours, then keep it plugged in for another 2 hours so the smoker temp comes rises. After 4 hours, usually the internal temp of the fish is 120° to 140°, so I move the rack into my oven (at 190°) until the internal hits 150°. This oven finish usually won't allow the albumen to surface and makes for a more attractive looking product. It takes from 10 minutes to 20 minutes in the oven to get it to the 150° temp.
In the spring and summer I can get the fish to an internal of 150° without needing the bump in the oven.
chicagokp
01-01-2012, 01:29 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/thirdeye2/Barbecue%2014/DSC02879aacc.jpg
This is the money shot I was looking for...drool...
Dovid
01-01-2012, 04:27 PM
Hi Thirdeye. Happy New Year.
Are you cold smoking on the UDS? If so, (and if not even), how are you or how would you do this with the UDS? I know I would start with the small coal basket. But beyond that I dont know how I would achieve the cold smoke. I did get one of those pellet gizmos which might do it if I cant use the UDS basket.
Thanks!
Dovid
Chicago
Haven't checked in for a while. Having lived in Nova Scotia for a couple years (and with a wife who grew up there), I was a bit curious about the connection. I had always been lead to believe that it was just a less salty version of lox. I am not an expert, but there are still salmon fished and smoked in Nova Scotia, but I don't think they provide a significant percentage of the Nova Salmon on the market. It is all done rurally to my knowledge. I have been hoping to do some salmon fishing on one of my yearly excursions there. Our family did eat lox when growing up and I was always told it was Yiddish. The Germans I know (in Germany) always refer to smoked salmon as "smoked salmon" and not lox. This could be a regional thing though or they could be polite. The Scandinavians I know have called it gravlox. I do have a friend up the street who I visited last week. His father is over from Norway and they are preparing gravlox in the refrigerator "the old fashioned way." It is four days curing then ready to eat -- no dill in theirs and definitely no smoke (although he does have a smoker). Just some more information to muddy the waters. There are going to be lots of variations to this story when it is all told. This is just some more oral history.
buccaneer
01-01-2012, 05:07 PM
Just applying cold flannels to TFO's face as she recuperates on the floor.
Poor thing, that money shot was just too much for her at this early hour.
I know darned well who will be sent to the fish market soon.
Thanks thirdeye.:wink:
thirdeye
01-01-2012, 06:08 PM
Hi Thirdeye. Happy New Year.
Are you cold smoking on the UDS? If so, (and if not even), how are you or how would you do this with the UDS? I know I would start with the small coal basket. But beyond that I dont know how I would achieve the cold smoke. I did get one of those pellet gizmos which might do it if I cant use the UDS basket.
Thanks!
Dovid
Chicago
No I use my Big Chief for cold smoking and hot smoking fish. I'm sure you could use your drum, but that's a lot of volume to fill with smoke, and the mini basket or the pellet generator would be the way to go. You could add a tray of ice cubes in there too to help cool the smoke if it's too hot.
Here is my cold smoke set-up for the Big Chief. I like it because the frame can hold a lot of racks and quite a nice load of fish.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/thirdeye2/Barbeque/DSC02806aa.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/thirdeye2/Barbecue%2014/DSC02281a.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/thirdeye2/Barbecue%2010/DSC08178a.jpg
Phrasty
01-01-2012, 07:42 PM
Very nice thirdeye! I make lox quite a bit as well (although maybe not as traditional as yours) but it always comes out great and I ALWAYS find that I never make enough either!
I'm very curious how the salmon candy came out! Been meaning to try that for sure!
Cheers
thirdeye
01-01-2012, 08:06 PM
Very nice thirdeye! I make lox quite a bit as well (although maybe not as traditional as yours) but it always comes out great and I ALWAYS find that I never make enough either!
I'm very curious how the salmon candy came out! Been meaning to try that for sure!
Cheers
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/thirdeye2/Barbecue%2014/DSC02869aa.jpg
Those belly strips are the highest fat content meat on a fish. On trout they are so thin I have to toss them, but on this steel head and most salmon sides you can cut them 2" to 2-1/2" wide. Even when pan frying you have to really cook them a long time. I took them to 185° internal (the other pieces only went to 150° internal) and they were still very moist and tender. I thought they would be drier, but not really the case. If I recall, they were only in the cure about 4 hours (verses 8 hours for the other pieces). They were really good. Next time I will still cure them 4 hours, but I will re-season them a little heavier following the resting time and probably take them to a higher temp. They still had a high enough amount of fish oil that you could feel it on your fingers.
All-in-all I was very satisified with everything. I gave two of the hot smoked pieces away today, and plan on taking a couple of bagels and lox to a guy tomorrow morning. He is a big sushi fan and the only lox he remembers having was at a wedding brunch.
The belly-bits are the best part. I coat them with real maple syrup and ground black pepper. I warm smoke them to 150+. Just like pig candy. :hungry:
Phrasty
01-01-2012, 08:38 PM
The belly-bits are the best part. I coat them with real maple syrup and ground black pepper. I warm smoke them to 150+. Just like pig candy. :hungry:
Aren't they... :becky: I usually glaze them over with whiskey/honey mixture! Awesome.
But for some reason I thought that you were going to air dry those same belly slices and make what I know as the indian salmon candy... It is air dried right?
On another note... what was the reason for taking the temp up so high to 185? I usually finish my smoked salmon at 130-140ish. I'm just curious. Want to know if there's a benefit to doing so and if I should as well. Or was it just the extra high fat content?
Cheers
martyleach
01-01-2012, 08:47 PM
That looks so good! You are way beyond my experience here....
I smoked a nice big fresh salmon filet in my MAK Pellet grill for Christmas at 170 degrees for about 4-1/2 hours after a 14 hour brine. Possibly the best salmon we have ever had. Almost too rich to just slice up and eat. Crackers, cream cheese and capers....
Salmon is just wonderful......
Aren't they... :becky: I usually glaze them over with whiskey/honey mixture! Awesome.
But for some reason I thought that you were going to air dry those same belly slices and make what I know as the indian salmon candy... It is air dried right?
On another note... what was the reason for taking the temp up so high to 185? I usually finish my smoked salmon at 130-140ish. I'm just curious. Want to know if there's a benefit to doing so and if I should as well. Or was it just the extra high fat content?
Cheers
Thirdeye says he goes to 185, and I'm curious why also (I actually assumed it was a typo, but since you brought it up....). I usually do all my salmon at once and shoot for 145. I actually like it in the 135-140 range, but my wife prefers it drier. The thinner bits are at higher temps, 150ish. This makes for very nice candy. :hungry: For me, there is no right or wrong, it is just personal preference. I have not tried the whiskey-honey mixture, but I'll give that a whirl next.
thirdeye
01-01-2012, 09:32 PM
Aren't they... :becky: I usually glaze them over with whiskey/honey mixture! Awesome.
But for some reason I thought that you were going to air dry those same belly slices and make what I know as the indian salmon candy... It is air dried right?
On another note... what was the reason for taking the temp up so high to 185? I usually finish my smoked salmon at 130-140ish. I'm just curious. Want to know if there's a benefit to doing so and if I should as well. Or was it just the extra high fat content?
Cheers
I had intended the belly strips to be more like jerky.... meaning drier than my usual hot smoked fish and maybe a little heavier seasoned. And I was going to make this in the smoker. I think you are correct in your description of Indian salmon candy, because every fish product that has the name "Indian" in the name that I have seen, has has been dried to some degree, some were dried and smoked at the same time. I don't think only belly strips are used, but that the entire fish is cut into strips. The additional surface area makes drying easier, and it makes for a nice sized portion, or as a snack. I believe that the original dried fish was hard cured so it would keep without refrigeration, and I also believe that when used it could be re-hydraded by soaking in water. Plains Indians did the same thing with wild game.
As far as the higher temp of 185°...., I went to 185° on ONLY the belly strips. (The rest of my hot smoked fish goes to an internal of 150°). My thinking on the high temp was to sweat out more of that fat, resulting in a drier jerky-like product. The fat content was so high, that did not work that well as I thought and the strips were still fairly moist. On a few occasions I've gone above my preferred 150° on fillets and they were too dry for me. This is especially true with trout and wild caught salmon so I monitor the internals very often once a fillet gets above 120°. One of my fishing buddy likes his better around 160° internal.
Phrasty
01-01-2012, 09:39 PM
I had intended the belly strips to be more like jerky.... meaning drier than my usual hot smoked fish and maybe a little heavier seasoned. And I was going to make this in the smoker. I think you are correct in your description of Indian salmon candy, because every fish product that has the name "Indian" in the name that I have seen, has has been dried to some degree, some were dried and smoked at the same time. I don't think only belly strips are used, but that the entire fish is cut into strips. The additional surface area makes drying easier, and it makes for a nice sized portion, or as a snack. I believe that the original dried fish was hard cured so it would keep without refrigeration, and I also believe that when used it could be re-hydraded by soaking in water. Plains Indians did the same thing with wild game.
As far as the higher temp of 185°...., I went to 185° on ONLY the belly strips. (The rest of my hot smoked fish goes to an internal of 150°). My thinking on the high temp was to sweat out more of that fat, resulting in a drier jerky-like product. The fat content was so high, that did not work that well as I thought and the strips were still fairly moist. On a few occasions I've gone above my preferred 150° on fillets and they were too dry for me. This is especially true with trout and wild caught salmon so I monitor the internals very often once a fillet gets above 120°. One of my fishing buddy likes his better around 160° internal.
Yeah I was thinking along those lines as well! I've never had steel head but I've seen it on here and it looks amazing! With a fat content like that I can see the cooking process changing a bit! Thanks for the pr0n again Thirdeye! making me wanna go out and get a side of salmon now... :heh:
Cheers Brother!
Big George's BBQ
01-01-2012, 10:31 PM
Very Nice Wayne Great Thread
thirdeye
01-01-2012, 10:42 PM
Very Nice Wayne Great Thread
Thanks, I'll get my comments up in a day or two after I sample the Nova a little more. I'll also post the complete procedure I used and what I think might need changed.
One thing that surprised me was just how mild the salt taste was even though I did two curing sessions. I know the Nova is supposed to me mild, but I'm thinking more salt might be in order, especially once I try it with cream cheese and a bagel, or on a cracker...... so far all my samples have been of fish only.
Thanks, I'll get my comments up in a day or two after I sample the Nova a little more. I'll also post the complete procedure I used and what I think might need changed.
One thing that surprised me was just how mild the salt taste was even though I did two curing sessions. I know the Nova is supposed to me mild, but I'm thinking more salt might be in order, especially once I try it with cream cheese and a bagel, or on a cracker...... so far all my samples have been of fish only.
You remember when you asked me what the Nova Scotia lox I remember from NY tasted like? I told you it was slightly salty. Not a heavy taste of salt, at all. And it had a mild fish taste, but not "fishy", like you say. The texture was not like regular fish, really. I find it interesting you said it reminded you of gelatin. Yeah, I can see that sort of. The slices were fairly thin, like you have in your money shot. I used to take a few slices and sort of pile them and drape them over each other on top of my cream cheese on my pumpernickel bagel, lay some raw onion rings or chives on top. Delicious! Makin' me hungry just thinking about it. The pron looks amazing, Wayne. So glad you did this! :thumb:
thirdeye
01-01-2012, 11:46 PM
You remember when you asked me what the Nova Scotia lox I remember from NY tasted like? I told you it was slightly salty. Not a heavy taste of salt, at all. And it had a mild fish taste, but not "fishy", like you say. The texture was not like regular fish, really. I find it interesting you said it reminded you of gelatin. Yeah, I can see that sort of. The slices were fairly thin, like you have in your money shot. I used to take a few slices and sort of pile them and drape them over each other on top of my cream cheese on my pumpernickel bagel, lay some raw onion rings or chives on top. Delicious! Makin' me hungry just thinking about it. The pron looks amazing, Wayne. So glad you did this! :thumb:
I'm glad I did it too. I have decided that when doing additional taste testing I might add just a tick of sea salt to a couple of slices, let them sit for a few minutes and see what that does. I also have a Himalayan salt block, that the instructions say can be chilled and used as a serving platter for chilled seafood, the moisture in the food draws salt from the surface of the slab.
I'm glad I did it too. I have decided that when doing additional taste testing I might add just a tick of sea salt to a couple of slices, let them sit for a few minutes and see what that does. I also have a Himalayan salt block, that the instructions say can be chilled and used as a serving platter for chilled seafood, the moisture in the food draws salt from the surface of the slab.
That sounds way cool. Where'd you find that? :cool:
thirdeye
01-02-2012, 08:13 AM
That sounds way cool. Where'd you find that? :cool:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/thirdeye2/Barbecue%2014/DSC01758aa.jpg
I got it for Christmas last year. You can heat them up and cook on them, or chill them and serve cold foods on them. It's a slab of solid salt... like 5,000 years old or something. You wash it after using and let it dry. Then when it's all worn out you can actually grind and use the salt for seasoning.
I've used mine 5 or 6 times for cooking, mostly seafood and thin strips of steak. You just put it on the grill or on the stovetop and heat it up.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/thirdeye2/Barbecue%2014/DSC01765aa.jpg
MTHank
01-02-2012, 08:38 AM
This is a very intresting post for "Nova Lox", I just started following and would be intrested in you final report. Could you post the complete procedure as one post with your results? I am intrested in trying this but at this time it is a bit difficult for me to really comprehind... I am on drugs for back pain and things just don't sink in like normal for me.
Thanks for the GREAT POST!!!
thirdeye
01-02-2012, 10:55 AM
This is a very intresting post for "Nova Lox", I just started following and would be intrested in you final report. Could you post the complete procedure as one post with your results? I am intrested in trying this but at this time it is a bit difficult for me to really comprehind... I am on drugs for back pain and things just don't sink in like normal for me.
Thanks for the GREAT POST!!!
I plan on that for sure.
This morning was the first true taste test since I did the cold smoking yesterday and the fish needed to chill overnight to let everything meld. You can see the color changed slightly, the flesh was still firm but the bite was not "gelatin like" anymore, it was more a "candied" texture. I'm hooked on this, and it was worth all the time needed for the long process. I didn't have any bagels and cream cheese on hand, so in true barbeque fashion, I had some soda crackers and onion on the side for breakfast.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/thirdeye2/Barbecue%2014/DSC02892aaa.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/thirdeye2/Barbecue%2014/DSC02889bbb.jpg
Big George's BBQ
01-02-2012, 04:36 PM
I have been thinking about doing this Now I have got to try it
Shiz-Nit
01-02-2012, 04:53 PM
Perfect Just Perfect!!!
thirdeye
01-02-2012, 05:11 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/thirdeye2/Barbecue%2014/DSC02896aa.jpg
I wanted some feedback from unsuspecting victims, so I took a box of lox to the neighborhood tavern during the Gator Bowl this afternoon. Inside a styro clam shell, I used a plastic wrapped blue ice pack with some wax paper on top to keep the slices chilled. One 'ol boy thought it looked like "good bait" and shied away from it :shocked:, but everyone else gave it the :thumb:, including two self proclaimed gurus of sushi.
Good grief, Wayne. That looks fantastic! Don't think I can take too much more of drooling over your pron without having something on my plate. Gonna have to break down and buy some lox to put on my pumpernickel. :roll:
SirPorkaLot
01-02-2012, 05:29 PM
Wow. Way to go Wayne. Mighty fine eats I'm sure.
thirdeye
01-11-2012, 08:43 PM
I guess I drug my feet on posting the re-write of my Nova Lox notes. Today I got 3 emails and one PM pretty much all saying the same thing.... "HEY %$**!?*%&!!, Where's that recipe you promised?"....
Well they weren't really that harsh, they were all more like a gentle reminder. Hehehee. So without further adoooo, here it is.
One thing to keep in mind is that the fillet I used was thicker than I can usually get, so some of my comments may not be a factor when using a 3/4" thick fillet which is common for the markets where I shop.
~thirdeye’s~ Nova Lox Using Steelhead or Salmon
Rev. 2 January 2012
Fish: For this batch I used steelhead fillets, thicker than normal (1" ), skin-on. Salmon will be the obvious choice as it is readily available. I selected the steelhead because it was super fresh and it had a nice fat content.
Dry Cure
50:50 mixture salt and brown sugar. (For a 7” long piece of fish I used 1/3 cup of kosher salt and 1/3 cup of brown sugar) (pickling salt might absorb better but would have to adjust measurement due to size). Sprinkle some of the mixture onto a long piece of plastic wrap. Cover the surface of the flesh side of the fish with the remaining dry cure, then turn the meat side down onto the wrap, and fold up the sides and ends, place fillet on a tray in case it leaks. You can place a weight on the fillet to insure good contact of the mixture and the fish during the cure. A small plate or cutting board with a jar of pickles will work fine for a weight. Cure time is 8 to 10 hours depending on thickness. This ratio worked very well. At the end of the dry cure, the fish had great color and was firm. I used 8 hours, and my piece was thick enough I could have gone 10 hours without a problem.
Remove the fish from the wrap, rinse under cold running water, lightly
scrub the fish with your fingers. The fish now goes into a brine cure, so have that all mixed up and chilled.
Brine Cure
Brine the fish using 1 gallon of water, 8 ounces of salt and 1/4 cup of white sugar for 6 to 10 hours depending on thickness of fillets. Pickling salt will dissolve easier than kosher salt, which ever you choose... weight it. Mix the brine while the dry cure is working, place in the refrigerator so it will be nice and chilled when needed. The brine cure made the fish relax, but did not wash out the color. It was not mushy. Brine time was 7 hours, I could have gone the full 10 hours as the fish was not overly salty, and Nova Lox should have a mild salt taste.
Soak-out: Following the brine, soak the fish in cold fresh water for 1 hour. Dry fillet, Season lightly with white pepper, black pepper and dill weed and place the fish on a rack in the fridge and rest overnight. Again, my finished lox was not overly salty so I think the 1 hour should be the maximum soak-out time
Cold Smoking
Cold smoke the fish at < 85° for 4 hours, check firmness, color and quality. Determine additional smoker time as needed. I used the cold A-Maze-N smoking tray in the Big Chief, and plugged in the BC for 15 minutes to warm up the smoker to 85° (no chip pan, just element) then switched off the element. Once an hour, I switched the element on for 10 minutes to raise the smoker temp to 85°. I would guess the average smoker temp was in the 50°'s. The purpose of the heat was only to dry the surface, I'm not trying to cook the fillet at all. The steelhead went 5 hours in the smoker. Wood was apple and the row of dust was topped with a small amount of hickory.
Chill the smoked fish overnight before slicing or wrapping.
Comments
The color following the dry cure was good. The lox was not salty at all. I’m wondering if I need to increase the strength of the Brine Cure? Or should it be lightly salted following slicing? Texture was firm and not chewy. Similar to gelatin or it could be called “candied” after the final chill down.
Flavor - I liked the slight hint of dill and pepper – this is a keeper
Smoke flavor – Delicate flavor. I had selected the hickory dust atop the apple dust as the Honey Smoked Salmon from Colorado I like so much uses hickory. I also wanted a distinct enough smoky flavor to overcome any issues with eating un-cooked fish.
Done WELL, SIR!!! :thumb: MYGOODNESS that looks tastee!
thull
01-13-2012, 12:46 PM
I did a few sides of salmon over the holidays using a pretty similar method. I decided to "Southernize" my version up and used a little bit of rye or bourbon in the cure and then cold smoke with pecan and/or apple wood. The only spice I put on was black pepper.
I went off my recollection of making gravlax many years ago and cured for 48 hours. No ill effects in terms of saltiness. Weighting down the filet to cure makes it denser, I think. I watched a video online (http://foodcurated.com/2010/04/samaki-smokehouse-the-art-of-cold-smoked-salmon/) where they brined the filets. I suspect that preserves a softer texture in the finished product.
Paulie G.
01-13-2012, 12:59 PM
Looks like a winner to me.
MTHank
01-13-2012, 01:18 PM
I guess I drug my feet on posting the re-write of my Nova Lox notes. Today I got 3 emails and one PM pretty much all saying the same thing.... "HEY %$**!?*%&!!, Where's that recipe you promised?"....
Thanks for the final up date on your "Nova Lox" I will give this a try.
Oh and I hope my PM did not come across as harsh! :tape: This was just something that really got my intrest and wanted to give it a try and I will as soon as I get over a herinated disc :shock:
Thanks again :thumb:
thirdeye
01-13-2012, 03:19 PM
I did a few sides of salmon over the holidays using a pretty similar method. I decided to "Southernize" my version up and used a little bit of rye or bourbon in the cure and then cold smoke with pecan and/or apple wood. The only spice I put on was black pepper.
I went off my recollection of making gravlax many years ago and cured for 48 hours. No ill effects in terms of saltiness. Weighting down the filet to cure makes it denser, I think. I watched a video online (http://foodcurated.com/2010/04/samaki-smokehouse-the-art-of-cold-smoked-salmon/) where they brined the filets. I suspect that preserves a softer texture in the finished product.
Mine was both dry cured, then wet cured.... I can see the reasoning behind each one, and you are correct about the flesh softening, I could tell a difference.
Thanks for the final up date on your "Nova Lox" I will give this a try.
Oh and I hope my PM did not come across as harsh! :tape: This was just something that really got my intrest and wanted to give it a try and I will as soon as I get over a herinated disc :shock:
Thanks again :thumb:
No harshness at all, I was making a wise crack because 4 or 5 people all contacted me the same day.
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