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laveen1
11-27-2011, 01:54 PM
Came across a 2 lb piece of belly in my freezer and decided to cure and smoke it. Rubbed in the cure (2 tblsp SALT, 2 tblsp DEXTROSE, 1 tblsp PEPPER, 2 tsp INSTACURE #1), bagged it and stuck it in the frige. It's now day 6 and there has been very little liquid leached out. Is this a problem?

viper1
11-27-2011, 02:35 PM
Came across a 2 lb piece of belly in my freezer and decided to cure and smoke it. Rubbed in the cure (2 tblsp SALT, 2 tblsp DEXTROSE, 1 tblsp PEPPER, 2 tsp INSTACURE #1), bagged it and stuck it in the frige. It's now day 6 and there has been very little liquid leached out. Is this a problem?

Only big problem I see if your dry brining you are way over on cure. Dry brining Bacon requires i level tsp per 5 lbs of meat. 2 tsp would be for 10 lbs. Thats 5 times as high as it should be. Should have been 10ml I probably would throw it out. But I'm sure there will be others along to.
Some meats put out more then others but have never had any not draw out some water.
I do a lot of meat curing of all kinds. If you ever want a recipe let me know. I have a lot of tested and proved.

gtr
11-27-2011, 02:44 PM
I'm wondering the same thing - I cured a belly over last week and very little liquid leached out. I smoked it yesterday and cut off a couple slices & fried 'em up - seems fine. I have the rest in the freezer right now & will be slicing it later. The amt. of cure for the amt. of belly does seem excessive in the OP.

thirdeye
11-27-2011, 03:06 PM
Only big problem I see if your dry brining you are way over on cure. Dry brining Bacon requires i level tsp per 5 lbs of meat. 2 tsp would be for 10 lbs. Thats 5 times as high as it should be. Should have been 10ml I probably would throw it out. But I'm sure there will be others along to.
Some meats put out more then others but have never had any not draw out some water.
I do a lot of meat curing of all kinds. If you ever want a recipe let me know. I have a lot of tested and proved.


Well, different recipes are out there..... Ruhlman's cure for example calls for 2 teaspoons of pink salt mixed into the amount of cure used on 5 pounds of pork belly.

That said, it's still heavy for a 2lb slab.


laveen1 ..... As far as liquid, some slabs don't leak as much as others, and often the bag liquid will be re-absorbed by the 4th or 5th day. If you are concerned about the cure amount (or possible saltiness) you can always do a longer soakout.

viper1
11-27-2011, 03:29 PM
Well, different recipes are out there..... Ruhlman's cure for example calls for 2 teaspoons of pink salt mixed into the amount of cure used on 5 pounds of pork belly.

Yes lots of recipes and some use excess cure which can make ill or even kill
That said, it's still heavy for a 2lb slab.

The correct cure for 5 lbs of meat in a dry brine is 1 level tsp. per. 5 lbs of meat using Cure #1. No more no less. The amount of cure should always be exact to what the cure your using calls for not the recipe. Now for a liquid it does take more. Also if using Morton tender quick that takes more because of the large amount of salt and sugar in it. And you need to subtract from your brine when using it.

laveen1 ..... As far as liquid, some slabs don't leak as much as others, and often the bag liquid will be re-absorbed by the 4th or 5th day. If you are concerned about the cure amount (or possible saltiness) you can always do a longer soakout. If your using cure #1 it won't really affect salt but Mortons will. But soaking longer will only add more nitrates and Nitrites which can be really harmful.

laveen1
11-27-2011, 03:51 PM
I guess I will give it extra soak time.

When doing a dry brine should I apply the cure first, and then the rest (sugar, salt, etc.), or is it best to mix and apply it all?

I would like to try a dry cured ham, so if you have a recipe I would like very much to see it. Does the ham have to stay in the refrigerator for the whole time its curing? My coolest room is probably 70 deg most of the time. Outside will get down to the upper 30's for a few hours only a handful of days over the next few weeks. Mostly it's in the 40's and 50's overnight - and that's only for a couple of months. Generally, how long per pound for a dry cure ham? It may not be a practical choice for me.

viper1
11-27-2011, 04:09 PM
Sorry Just thinking some dry Bacon recipes do require 2 tsp of cure#1 FOR dry brining 5 lbs of meat also but even more for wet brine.I guess I will give it extra soak time.

When doing a dry brine should I apply the cure first, and then the rest (sugar, salt, etc.), or is it best to mix and apply it all? I always mix all dry ingredients together real well then spread all over the meat according to what each piece ways.

I would like to try a dry cured ham, so if you have a recipe I would like very much to see it. Does the ham have to stay in the refrigerator for the whole time its curing? My coolest room is probably 70 deg most of the time. Outside will get down to the upper 30's for a few hours only a handful of days over the next few weeks. Mostly it's in the 40's and 50's overnight - and that's only for a couple of months. Generally, how long per pound for a dry cure ham? It may not be a practical choice for me.

Are you doing a Maple Ham? I have a few recipes if you like I can send you one with directions.

thirdeye
11-27-2011, 06:10 PM
Sorry Just thinking some dry Bacon recipes do require 2 tsp of cure#1 FOR dry brining 5 lbs of meat also but even more for wet brine.... I always mix all dry ingredients together real well then spread all over the meat according to what each piece ways.


Thanks for the retraction. I agree with you on following a particular recipe to the letter, but recipes do vary. Especially older recipes and European recipes which sometimes call for heavier doses of curing salt and salt.

For what it's worth, I've seen some "proven recipes" that call for as much as 4 tablespoons of pink salt for 10 pounds of belly.... In my opinion that amount is really out of control, especially since we have refrigeration on our side.

I guess I will give it extra soak time.

When doing a dry brine should I apply the cure first, and then the rest (sugar, salt, etc.), or is it best to mix and apply it all?

I would like to try a dry cured ham, so if you have a recipe I would like very much to see it. Does the ham have to stay in the refrigerator for the whole time its curing? My coolest room is probably 70 deg most of the time. Outside will get down to the upper 30's for a few hours only a handful of days over the next few weeks. Mostly it's in the 40's and 50's overnight - and that's only for a couple of months. Generally, how long per pound for a dry cure ham? It may not be a practical choice for me.

I also make one mixture, (curing salt, salt, sugar and seasonings) then apply the called out amount based on meat weight. (cure time is based on thickness of the meat)

I'd also like to see the dry cured ham recipes. The curing process (sometimes months) has always made be shy away from them in favor of using a sweet pickle.

viper1
11-27-2011, 06:32 PM
Thanks for the retraction. I agree with you on following a particular recipe to the letter, but recipes do vary. Especially older recipes and European recipes which sometimes call for heavier doses of curing salt and salt.

For what it's worth, I've seen some "proven recipes" that call for as much as 4 tablespoons of pink salt for 10 pounds of belly.... In my opinion that amount is really out of control, especially since we have refrigeration on our side.
I always change the cure to manufactures measures. As most curing forums I'm on do.For sure safe that way.



I also make one mixture, (curing salt, salt, sugar and seasonings) then apply the called out amount based on meat weight. (cure time is based on thickness of the meat)
This was for bacon. Which I do wet and dry cures on.
I'd also like to see the dry cured ham recipes. The curing process (sometimes months) has always made be shy away from them in favor of using a sweet pickle.

Personally at the moment I can not think of a dry cure Ham,I always do a wet brine on Ham. And yes need to be refrigerated for the full cure time.

Also when I speak cures, I'm talking Cure #1 or 2. 2 being for long cure times. Also Morton's tender quick Which I do use for bacon a lot. But they both require different amounts for cure. Salt is not a cure. But helps with cure these days. Cure is nitrates and nitrites which can if used improperly can be dangerous. Today's cure has nothing to do with keeping meats unrefridgeated for long periods of time. They will spoil if unrefridgerated. Cure is used for the smoking which is done low and slow not usually hotter then 250 degrees. It protects the meat for about four hours of the meat reaching 140 degrees. It also adds some pink color and some hammer taste to the meat. Gure rate is different between muscle or ground meat also. Any one smoking low and slow should take time to learn this. Now if you smoking meat on a grill above 250 that's totally different. I do that also but use a grill or stove. I know their is a lot that will disagree with this but for making cured meats,bacon ham and sausage its pretty important. Sausage cooked to fast will fat out which leaves it dry and tasteless. Sorry you confused my meaning. Next time I will spend more time writing it out. I'm 58 years old and some times cut things short when I say it. then other times seem I write a book. Like now, Sorry!

thirdeye
11-27-2011, 06:57 PM
I always change the cure to manufactures measures. As most curing forums I'm on do.For sure safe that way.

... Also when I speak cures, I'm talking Cure #1 or 2. 2 being for long cure times. Also Morton's tender quick Which I do use for bacon a lot. But they both require different amounts for cure. Salt is not a cure. But helps with cure these days. Cure is nitrates and nitrites which can if used improperly can be dangerous. Today's cure has nothing to do with keeping meats unrefridgeated for long periods of time. They will spoil if unrefridgerated. Cure is used for the smoking which is done low and slow not usually hotter then 250 degrees. It protects the meat for about four hours of the meat reaching 140 degrees. It also adds some pink color and some hammer taste to the meat. Gure rate is different between muscle or ground meat also. Any one smoking low and slow should take time to learn this. Now if you smoking meat on a grill above 250 that's totally different. I do that also but use a grill or stove. I know their is a lot that will disagree with this but for making cured meats,bacon ham and sausage its pretty important. Sausage cooked to fast will fat out which leaves it dry and tasteless. Sorry you confused my meaning. Next time I will spend more time writing it out. I'm 58 years old and some times cut things short when I say it. then other times seem I write a book. Like now, Sorry!

Yes, most manufacturers will stay within government recommendations, and as a matter of fact... dry cure amounts for sausages is much less (1 teaspoon pink salt per 5 pounds) than dry cure amounts for whole muscle meats (4 teaspoons of pink salt per 5 pounds). The thickness of larger cuts of meats need more cure to insure a supply of nitrite over those longer curing times.

Basically, I think we are on the same track, and the most important thing is getting the information across to other folks, so they can make a good product without a lot of experimentation.... and do it safely.

As we know, Pink salt #1, #2 and Tenderquick all have specific applications, the main difference is Tenderquick was developed more for home use and that is why it is so much lower in percentage of nitrites and nitrates. I do some salt only curing (salmon, gray corned beef, etc.), but I prefer using nitrate/nitrite for the benefits like color, moistness, extending the 4-hour rule in the smoker for sausage. Some of my German and hot link recipes for sausage call for Tenderquick even though they are grilled.

Capozzoli
11-27-2011, 07:08 PM
If your using cure #1 it won't really affect salt but Mortons will. But soaking longer will only add more nitrates and Nitrites which can be really harmful.

Why are you shouting?

Jeez my ears hurt now.

viper1
11-27-2011, 09:27 PM
Sorry wasn't yelling just tried to make easier to read. Plus I was bored. Lol

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

gtr
11-27-2011, 10:40 PM
...extending the 4-hour rule in the smoker for sausage. ...

These words kinda jumped out at me - what is the 4-hour rule? It sounds like the meaning is kinda obvious (safe amt. of time at a certain temp) but I'd be interested in hearing more about it. Thanks!

thirdeye
11-28-2011, 05:08 AM
These words kinda jumped out at me - what is the 4-hour rule? It sounds like the meaning is kinda obvious (safe amt. of time at a certain temp) but I'd be interested in hearing more about it. Thanks!

Oh, the food safety rule. A maximum of 4 hours of time for food to be in the 40F to 140F range, because bacteria really multiplies in that range. Adding curing salt to meats allows us to go longer, safely.....

Sausage is a perfect example here. Fresh sausage should be grilled, baked, or fried to 165 inside the 4 hour window. Which is pretty easy to do. Smoked sausage recipes might call for a 6 to 8 hour procedure so they need some protection by the addition of nitrites or nitrates.

SmokinAussie
11-28-2011, 05:16 AM
^^^ Now that's a nugget of gold right there!

viper1
11-28-2011, 12:31 PM
The only thing is cure is not a salt. Cure is nitrates and nitrites and there extremely poison in the wrong quantity's. They have salt added to make the measurement easier, as it is a small quantity. So we call them pink salt or curing salt. But don't ever confuse and use as a salt. Morton tender quick isn't the same at all. Because it contains about the same cure a little less but close. But it contains a lot of sugar and salt. So it requires a lot more. Plus always a difference in quantity between a brine,dry cure,muscle meat or ground meat. Not wanting to sound like a smart arse or something but a lot of people jump into curing meat with out knowing enough about cures.Just don't reproduce any recipe with out double checking cure amount is safe to manufactures amount.When in doubt a little less is safest.

thirdeye
11-28-2011, 01:17 PM
The only thing is cure is not a salt. Cure is nitrates and nitrites and there extremely poison in the wrong quantity's. They have salt added to make the measurement easier, as it is a small quantity. So we call them pink salt or curing salt. But don't ever confuse and use as a salt. Morton tender quick isn't the same at all. Because it contains about the same cure a little less but close. But it contains a lot of sugar and salt. So it requires a lot more. Plus always a difference in quantity between a brine,dry cure,muscle meat or ground meat. Not wanting to sound like a smart arse or something but a lot of people jump into curing meat with out knowing enough about cures.Just don't reproduce any recipe with out double checking cure amount is safe to manufactures amount.When in doubt a little less is safest.

Right, that's why the stronger curing salt is colored pink.... so it won't get confused with regular salt. And I agree with you.... Tenderquick is not the same as pink salts. TQ only has 1% nitrate/nitrite, where #1 has 6.25% nitrite. Morton's has a good market with home curing folks (or novices) because it's hard to over do it with Tenderquick. Even when speaking directly to Morton's engineers, they are somewhat evasive in helping convert curing recipes with pink salt to recipes with TQ. One thing that is interesting, nowadays Sugar Cure and Tenderquick are exactly the same product. Sugar Cure was getting too expensive to make with the rising cost of sugar.... but Morton's didn't want to loose name recogination.

I would respectfully disagree slightly about salt's ability to cure.... By definition, salt might not be an actual "cure", but for thousands of years folks called their meats preserved in salt "salt cured", so the name just stuck. Maybe "salt preserving" would be a better term?

It is interesting to note that Dead Sea salt (and I'm sure other sea salts) have some nitrates in them. In the BC years, the Jewish, Chinese and Greeks were able to get a color change in their meats from using those types of natural salts. And let's not overlook that in the 1920's we got a bit careless with potassium nitrate which led us to the modern day use of sodium nitrite and nitrate.

PS - I'm sending you a Private Message.