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Results Guy
08-17-2011, 09:25 AM
Hi,

My question is which hard wood gives the best smoke ring? My desire is to have a great red color that penetrates deeply in my Boston Butts. What hard wood will do that?

Look forward to hearing from your wisdom.

The results guy.

Fatback Joe
08-17-2011, 10:17 AM
Personally, I am not sure that the wood type makes much difference from my experience. For a while, it seemed like I got a better ring with cherry, but it was probably other factors more than the type of wood.

If you want a better "smoke ring", you can do it chemically (tenderquick, etc) add more salt to the rub, or put your meat on cold. All help with that red ring.

JMSetzler
08-17-2011, 10:20 AM
I don't think the wood choice plays much of a role either. I have smoked butts with apple and hickory and can't really tell a difference. The comment above about your rub and meat temps is true. Marinate your butt in pineapple juice for an hour or two before you put it on. Pineapple juice is a natural meat tenderizer also...

El Lobo
08-17-2011, 10:24 AM
Cherry puts a pretty dark color on things, ring depth no better or worse than any other wood I use.

Bbq Bubba
08-17-2011, 10:32 AM
Wood has nothing to do with the smoke ring,
When a smoke ring develops in barbecue meats it is not because smoke has penetrated and
colored the muscle, but rather because gases in the smoke interact with the pigment myoglobin.

GreenDrake
08-17-2011, 10:38 AM
Put colder meat into heavy smoke. Voila, saved you some time searching for wood.

El Lobo
08-17-2011, 10:39 AM
Wood has nothing to do with the smoke ring,
When a smoke ring develops in barbecue meats it is not because smoke has penetrated and
colored the muscle, but rather because gases in the smoke interact with the pigment myoglobin.


I love science! To add to that, it produces nitrate and nitrite, which is exactly the same reason cured sausages go the same deep red color as a smoke ring.

El Lobo
08-17-2011, 10:42 AM
BTW you could use curing powder to create fake smoke rings. Adding to a rub will do it but that would be pretty lame.

Results Guy
08-17-2011, 12:05 PM
Wow..... this was my first post, and after posting, I got the message the post needed to be approved. Looks like the post was approved and everyone here has given me great tips and advise.!!!!

Looks like I have many options. Marinading in pineapple juice, cherry wood and putting a cold butt in a smokey cooker seems to be keys. Also, adding curing powder to create fake smoke rings looks like good advice.

Thanks!!!!!

Results Guy.

El Lobo
08-17-2011, 12:20 PM
...Also, adding curing powder to create fake smoke rings looks like good advice.

Thanks!!!!!

Results Guy.

You're gonna get me lynched!!! :doh:

Results Guy
08-17-2011, 12:34 PM
El Lobo,

Hopefully, people here will not give you a hard time!!!!

Results Guy

BBQ Bandit
08-17-2011, 12:44 PM
Also some food for thought:

Charcoal... which is charred wood, will also promote a smoke ring.
Its the combination of nitrates/nitrites and the hemoglobin from the meats.

Lump or propane does not have the necessary elements to promote a smoke ring.
If I want a smoke ring using lump... add a handful of charcoal briquettes to the fire.


To your original question... a quote from a Brother Kcquer:
"Apple for birds, cherry for everything else, oak is for furniture and cabinets."

tamadrummer
08-17-2011, 12:45 PM
I know everyone has given you scientific reasons for having or not a smoke ring and they are all far superior in knowledge of smoke than I.

That being said, one wood that I know for sure will change the color of your meat and fill it with a heavy flavor of smoke is mesquite. Very powerful flavor and will basically turn chicken pink.

Results Guy
08-17-2011, 01:16 PM
Thanks guys for the tips!!!!!

JD08
08-17-2011, 01:21 PM
Fresh pineapple juice contains an enzyme called bromelin, which tenderizes, but is destroyed by heat. Using canned pineapple juice tht has been pasteurized will not give the tenderizing benefits.

expatpig
08-17-2011, 01:23 PM
Also some food for thought:

Charcoal... which is charred wood, will also promote a smoke ring.
Its the combination of nitrates/nitrites and the hemoglobin from the meats.

Lump or propane does not have the necessary elements to promote a smoke ring.
If I want a smoke ring using lump... add a handful of charcoal briquettes to the fire.


To your original question... a quote from a Brother Kcquer:
"Apple for birds, cherry for everything else, oak is for furniture and cabinets."
I beg to differ, I've gotten comparable smoke rings on a GOSM gasser, I only use lump and get smoke rings as well.

btcg
08-17-2011, 01:38 PM
I get great smoke rings with all types of fruit woods and hardwoods.

Currently in my garage: apple, cherry, peach, grape (thanks to el-matt),pecan

Hards: oak, hickory, mesquite (I may never use the mesquite, only 1 bag anyways)


Want just one to use as a go-to: hickory for hards, apple for fruits.


But I'd suggest you change your focus from the smoke ring, which, as the other brothers have said, can be done artificially, and turn your attention to the "Holy Grail" of BBQ":

Low & Slo'ing brisket or pulled pork and achieving an internal temp of just over 190 while keeping that beautiful red/pinkish internal color.

Gettin that beautiful red/pink color and a great bark is even better.

Seek the Grail, brother.

expatpig
08-17-2011, 02:19 PM
What bgtc said ! amen.

MG_NorCal
08-17-2011, 02:48 PM
I beg to differ, I've gotten comparable smoke rings on a GOSM gasser, I only use lump and get smoke rings as well.

I agree, I've had decent smoke rings in a vertical gasser with little or no wood chips and in other cookers burning lump only.

Short answer is that depth/intensity of smoke ring is not related to the type of wood. Adding wood of any kind will help, but the main requirement is a fire.

There is some info on this here:
http://www.amazingribs.com/tips_and_technique/meat_science.html

It seems the NO2 required for smoke ring formation is created in the fire from oxidation of nitrogen present in the air - that's why the fuel source doesn't matter as much.

deguerre
08-17-2011, 03:13 PM
You're gonna get me lynched!!! :doh:

If you're gone...Then who's gonna find out who done it?

El Ropo
08-17-2011, 03:47 PM
One of the best rings I've gotten was by using 2 half fist sized chunks of pecan, 1 same size chunk of apple and 1 same size chunk of cherry on the UDS.

http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz189/ElRopo/April1stRips002.jpg

I'm not saying the wood combo is a magic combo, but it was a pretty impressive color. FYI, these were smoked for one hour @ 250, then bumped it up to 300ish till done. I always try to put my meat on right out of the fridge, so it stays below 140 a bit longer.

My roommate took a look and thought they were "rare" lol. He's a potato salad eating freak though.

BBQ Bandit
08-17-2011, 04:03 PM
A few years ago... a Brethren Brother bigabyte ran an extensive examination of the smoke ring.
http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38332&highlight=experiment
It was very worth reading and quite informative.

JS-TX
08-17-2011, 04:37 PM
Don't resort to the curing powder/salt trick yet. Use a rub w/more salt in it and put the meat on while it's still cold in your smoker. The smoke ring is tasteless. Also use briquettes instead of lump, that may help.

Mister Bob
08-17-2011, 05:00 PM
Lump or propane does not have the necessary elements to promote a smoke ring.



Actually, this is not so. Nitrogen Dioxide is a by combustion product when natural gas or propane is burned, the same as wood or charcoal.

I posted on my blog a while back, an excellent article by Joe Cordray, the Meat Extension Specialist at Iowa State University’s nationally renowned Meat Lab, located in Ames, IA. The article describes the process involved in creating a smoke ring in great detail. Here's the link http://thehogblog.com/?p=1295

BBQ Bandit
08-17-2011, 05:34 PM
I don't mind being called out... if wrong.

1. Will someone then please explain why a gas-fired (without the presence of wood) oven @ 225* will not have a smoke ring on a bare/unaltered (without any cure) pork butt?

ref: bigabyte's thread above.

mmmmeat
08-17-2011, 05:42 PM
I don't mind being called out... if wrong.

1. Will someone then please explain why a gas-fired (without the presence of wood) oven @ 225* will not have a smoke ring on a bare/unaltered (without any cure) pork butt?

ref: bigabyte's thread above.

^^^^^ what he said...can't have a SMOKE RING w/o .......wait for it....SMOKE!

Posted from my fancy android fone!!

mmmmeat
08-17-2011, 05:54 PM
Actually, this is not so. Nitrogen Dioxide is a by combustion product when natural gas or propane is burned, the same as wood or charcoal.



Nitrogen dioxide is nasty chit....

Wiki that ish....won't let me post link.....<sadface>


Posted from my fancy android fone!!

BBQ Bandit
08-17-2011, 05:59 PM
Also another great thread... by Thirdeye on the subject.
http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1290504&postcount=3

thirdeye
08-17-2011, 06:50 PM
Wow..... this was my first post, and after posting, I got the message the post needed to be approved. Looks like the post was approved and everyone here has given me great tips and advise.!!!!

Looks like I have many options. Marinading in pineapple juice, cherry wood and putting a cold butt in a smokey cooker seems to be keys. Also, adding curing powder to create fake smoke rings looks like good advice.

Thanks!!!!!

Results Guy.

Here is a doctored ring, just the color you were looking for. I don't call them fake, but I am the one handing out the dose of nitrates. Heheheheee. I have an honorary PhB.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/thirdeye2/Barbecue%2014/DSC02087rac.jpg


Don't resort to the curing powder/salt trick yet. Use a rub w/more salt in it and put the meat on while it's still cold in your smoker. The smoke ring is tasteless. Also use briquettes instead of lump, that may help.

All of those things will help with the ring, sea salt is rumored to have natural nitrates. I received a package of sea salt mined in Utah that I really like.

Also another great thread... by Thirdeye on the subject.
http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1290504&postcount=3


One other thing I've been using on brisket since that post is ground celery seed. Celery is really high in nitrates, and the flavor is a natural with brisket. It's now the first layer of seasoning I put on my briskets (doctored or not). I get good quality seed from Penzey's that is imported from India.

brewerjamie15
08-17-2011, 10:25 PM
A few years ago... a Brethren Brother bigabyte ran an extensive examination of the smoke ring.

It was very worth reading and quite informative.


Hey. Did that thing have El Lobo's magical fairy dust in it? :roll:

MG_NorCal
08-18-2011, 06:27 PM
I don't mind being called out... if wrong.

1. Will someone then please explain why a gas-fired (without the presence of wood) oven @ 225* will not have a smoke ring on a bare/unaltered (without any cure) pork butt?

ref: bigabyte's thread above.

A combination of two factors:
(1) The design of the burners and/or the fact that they are engaged only intermittently does not produce enough NO2
(2) The venting and circulation within the oven does not trap what NO2 is produced well enough to reach the concentration necessary to form a smoke ring

Anybody wanting to learn more about NO2 production with fire and heat should google "thermal NOx"

Mister Bob
08-18-2011, 07:16 PM
The ring on this brisket was produced with Royal Oak lump charcoal only, no wood, no briquettes (and no Tenderquick either). I don't believe the type of wood burned is as important as the quality and quantity of combustion taking place and the amount of NO2 laden air moving across the surface of the meat.

http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/Bobsarno/Brisket%20and%20Butt%20Times%20Two/BrisketandButtsX2-102400037.jpg

cameraman
08-18-2011, 07:45 PM
I would kill for a ring like that.

Results Guy
08-22-2011, 05:57 PM
This place is amazing!!!!! I learned a lot, and I have many tips to help have a deep smoke ring.

Mitch
08-22-2011, 06:13 PM
Good grief! Smoke rings don't add flavor. If you want a big pretty smoke ring, just put some tender quick in your rub and rest overnight.

Lake Dogs
08-22-2011, 07:03 PM
^^^ why would you want a fake smoke ring? Afterall, we're talking about a SMOKE ring... If that's the case, why not soak the mean overnight in green food coloring. At least you'd be unique!

I guess I'm just getting old...

Seriously, btgc and I agree on this one 100%; seek the grail. The ring is a by-product of a great smoke. It is NOT the end-all.

I mean, that's like being married to a blow-up doll, isn't it?

AlabamaGrillBillies
08-22-2011, 07:47 PM
I have had my best ring results with Cherry wood and cold meat into the smoker. YMMV


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/mattpair/BBQ%20and%20other%20food/0141-1.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/mattpair/BBQ%20and%20other%20food/0727.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/mattpair/BBQ%20and%20other%20food/0730.jpg

Results Guy
08-22-2011, 10:25 PM
These are great smoke rings!!!!! Look forward to sharing photos. I hope I can share photos with great smoke rings like what I have seen on this thread.

Results Guy